scootshoot Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Even 8 on 8 warzones this engine struggles. Try playing a non backward walkin Range class trying to kite melee. There are many a time I am kiting a melee running a certain direction only for the server to change direction automatically because it can't keep up with the constant change of directions my character is performing while kiting someone. Edited March 15, 2012 by scootshoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkgryphon Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 A completely optimized and clean system, fully tested for integrity, that runs BF3 and every other game on the market on high/ultra without an issue should not have issue with SWTOR. One question. I know how well BF3 did when it launched. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just a question. Did it run BF3 when it first launched with perfection? As far as I knew, reading around, it had a lot of problems with graphic's drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksworgen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 what the h e l l you talking bout willis? ME3 PWNS!! Play Mass Effect 1 and 2(I personally am more toward 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alderdale Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Then why does my laptop run fine in Alderaan? Because your slow. but Ill give you a pass on that because you happen to play the same game I like. We are not talking bout you PVE experience bro. we are talking about getting a large group of people together (20 or more) all fighting each other in the same place. This game is a steaming turd when trying to implement the MMO part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostalTwinkie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) One question. I know how well BF3 did when it launched. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just a question. Did it run BF3 when it first launched with perfection? As far as I knew, reading around, it had a lot of problems with graphic's drivers. Issues were cleared up rather quickly actually. EDIT: The more important fact is that it was never "It is the players fault and their systems!". It was "We are aware of the issues and are working to resolve them as soon as possible!" It comes down to responsibility and accepting it. BioWare knows what is happening, they just don't want to admit it openly. Edited March 15, 2012 by PostalTwinkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 funny to see the rabid fanboys dismissing articles written by people and organizations who do this for a living as not being true, because they don't see it as a problem, or just dismiss the article period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhouse Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Even on my wife's laptop that uses onboard video processing, I manage to get 30 FPS at all times, and never have hiccups when opening inventory. COOL! Which onboard video processor is it, may I ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Even I don't get 10 fps on Alderaan. This UI does seem to be the problem though. Opening character screen or inventory really freezes things. Turn the UI off and get a big FPS boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootshoot Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 funny to see the rabid fanboys dismissing articles written by people and organizations who do this for a living as not being true, because they don't see it as a problem, or just dismiss the article period Yep. And most of these cats are PVE players or stand in one spot healers in pvp. Play a class that has to be constantly on the move like a Range Kiter and the lack of responsiveness and laggy feel are definitely noticed in even small 8 on 8 warzone skirmishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) And yet many people are not having problems at all. Shows how much you know. Yet many people are having problems. Which means the engine is optimized for one type of rig, and not another. -pushes ball in your court- Edited March 15, 2012 by LucisAbyssus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkgryphon Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 COOL! Which onboard video processor is it, may I ask? Sorry, I was incorrect. It is not an onboard. It's an AMD 4200 series mobility GPU. Sorry if I had mislead. I don't play on it that much and only do with lowest settings. Ever since I upgraded my PC there really is no need. Just wish HDs didn't triple in price . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirsri Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You won't believe me, but I actually bought this game because it was being made by Bioware and it kinda killed my respect for them. This and then ME3 are being ******* on because of EA pretty much controlling every decision at Bioware. Having spoken with a EA/BioWare VP about this personally. EA controlled the fact that their new studio had to be at an existing EA facility, and ultimately EA holds the purse strings. They don't exercise creative control directly, but well, he who has the money makes the rules, spoken or unspoken. It seems like they split the MMO division off from the regular single player division, though I dunno if it's the same pool of money or not. It would seem odd to put 400 people offshored in austin on the same money pile as 350 or so people in edmonton on completely different products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirsri Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 what the h e l l you talking bout willis? ME3 PWNS!! Have you finished it? If you haven't don't do any google searches related to Mass effect 3 ending until you have. Then come back and talk to us. I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm trying to not spoil it either, and until you've seen the ending and digesting it a bit your opinion of ME3 might be very different from someone who has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 funny to see the rabid fanboys dismissing articles written by people and organizations who do this for a living as not being true, because they don't see it as a problem, or just dismiss the article period Sorry, but not having all these issues and definitely not running top of the line comp system, I pull an average of 50-70fps even in Fleet, let alone on planets. Also, read your local newspaper, watch the local news, read magazines and other "journalistic" material and you will always find bias as the media pushes "sensationalism" over facts, it just sells better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostalTwinkie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Having spoken with a EA/BioWare VP about this personally. EA controlled the fact that their new studio had to be at an existing EA facility, and ultimately EA holds the purse strings. They don't exercise creative control directly, but well, he who has the money makes the rules, spoken or unspoken. It seems like they split the MMO division off from the regular single player division, though I dunno if it's the same pool of money or not. It would seem odd to put 400 people offshored in austin on the same money pile as 350 or so people in edmonton on completely different products. Ultimately what it boils down to is getting a return on their investment. EA spent $860,000,000 on the purchase of BioWare and Pandemic Studios. Then they spent another $200,000,000 on SWTOR. Many would argue that the purchase of BioWare was prompted/due to wanting to get SWTOR to market. If that holds true then EA is over $1,000,000,000 into their adventure. Investors want their money back or to cut their losses. Thus the game was rushed out the door, when it shouldn't have been. Which all appears to hold true consider EA stock fell after the release of the game and its perceived performance. SWTOR being named as one of, or the, reason for the stock slide. Edited March 15, 2012 by PostalTwinkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Also, read your local newspaper, watch the local news, read magazines and other "journalistic" material and you will always find bias as the media pushes "sensationalism" over facts, it just sells better. It's not "media". The guy interviewing has the issues himself, he is also a customer and I doubt he would call himself a "journalist". Edited March 15, 2012 by Rogoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimvou Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Can we see a video of someone showing the graphics options and moving around in Alderaan,fleet or anywhere else? Maybe your definition of "fine" has the same result of what some others call excessive stutter or annoying. a 20 sec video should be enough. Seriously im just curious to see someone opening his inventory without freezing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 PC scores FFXIV at 14000 and plays like butter, but if SWTOR runs like crapmust be a PC issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 PC scores FFXIV at 14000 and plays like butter, but if SWTOR runs like crapmust be a PC issue... FFXIV also hasn't updated it's .net or C++ redistributable since Alpha either. But it's always easier to complain than to update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IasonEvan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I see enough people on these forums say they have frame rate issues when opening up inventory and UI etc to know there is an issue and it isn't related to their rig. I also see enough of the opposite, where people say they don't have any issues. Conclusion: Some people have issues and some do not, regardless of rig type/class/specs. Hopefully BW can get it sorted. The people I see that run this game terribly but run other games flawlessly have valid complaints. Just because your rig runs it great doesn't mean it is on their end. There is a problem with the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) It's not "media". The guy interviewing has the issues himself, he is also a customer and I doubt he would call himself a "journalist". And does he not receive some form of compensation from the amount of hits he receives on his site? Also there is an actual place for the complaints of issues and suggestions within the BW/Forums/Community. Edited March 15, 2012 by Esproc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Settings and memory access (and OS). If Windows has pre-cached your game you won't see the hitching when opening UI elements, if it hasn't, it's hard fault to disk access. If you have an SSD, but its improperly configured, or if you have other disk access at the same time it will again, hard pause and wait. If you're running chrome/firefox/opera with SWTOR on decent settings and only have 4 gigs of ram, guess what, you have a lot of stuff in memory which will cause problems. An SSD in the wrong mode, with the wrong settings in windows or with the wrong firmware will also cause persistent hitching. SWTOR is really big. It's sort of an engine problem, and sort of not. Ideally the engine programmers should know how to pre-fetch stuff on their own. The problem is that the game is already creeping up to a 2GB memory limit and it will just barf on a 32 bit OS if it does more than that, or if it can't find enough ram. How much should you pre-fetch? Well if you have low settings (really low settings for example, especially textures) then windows or the engine will have more memory to cache into main memory (i.e. RAM) and less hitching. Something like crysis is a nonsense comparison. They have completely different performance profiles. The problem with something like SWTOR is that you have this hugely diverse collection of stuff that could show up on your screen at any time (every character, in every suit of armour). In crysis the programmer knows in advance exactly what can ever be on your screen and when. Hero engine is really a content creation system. For example, the game is probably written in heroscript mostly (aka the Hero Scripting language). It's a fully OO language, but it runs on top of the Hero engine, I don't think it's compiled to bytecode directly. That's not a bad thing particularly, but it makes optimization inherently harder because the 'engine' isn't aware of what HSL code is going to do until it runs it. Because of hero engine SWTOR can be really really big. But that means it will behave completely differently than most other games. You could try comparing to WoW, but the conversation system (specifically how jars you into a higher resolution view of yourself and a face close up) completely changes how the engine can perform. That, believe it or not, is a huge 'storytelling' idea, but a disastrously bad performance one, and theres probably no easy way to fix it. It's also and online game, and they might be phoning home for a lot of things which don't necessarily need to phone home for. E.g. finding cover is a slow process because it has to query the server if it can go, and then go, rather than take cover, where you just tell the server you're taking cover here. You can actually watch the two, if you don't have a smuggler or agent, make one just to see the difference, that highlights just how the 'ask the server' causes hitching effects, and someone with a different latency connection to their server or who just happens to be on lower load times than you will experience completely different performance. These days technically I'm an AI programmer, but have been an engine programmer. There are lots of things that could probably be improved in the hero engine as used in SWTOR, but without server monitoring tools it's hard to know where problems are. All that resting on a huge databases which considering how fast the loot is generated runs pretty smooth. On the network side, people like me who where hit by the error 9000 of death and played with sniffers can tell you the code was far from optimized. Well at least things are better now and you can guess they are still working on improving it. Still their rendering engine has quite some issues so heavily loading the GPU and CPU to generate not so huge numbers of poly and renders them. Look we only have 2x AA and stairs looking shadows... in 2012. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The game runs great on my rig, thats all I know. I had problems earlier to release but I researched my personal computer and found the problem. In my case it was the router. I was angery and came onto the forums and did the same thing lots of people do but at the end of the day the truth was that I needed to take personal responsibility for some of the performance issues I was experiencing. The console customer base does not understand this but PC gamers know how unique and specific each individual rig can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarka Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Because it's not obvious, since more people are not having those problems. If every single person had problems, it's the engine. His example is applicable to everyone. Every player in this game has this issue. Try it yourself. While running forward open the character window repeatedly. The game freezes up for a split second every time. Edited March 15, 2012 by aarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJediKnight Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 His example is applicable to everyone. Every player in this game has this issue. Try it yourself. While running forward open the character window repeatedly. The game freezes up for a split second every time. Nah, it's a ghost in my computer. Clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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