sorcs op?

[Varcado]

So question,If sorcs are sooo OP why can shadow and ops burst them down so easily?and If their survivability is soooo OP why not just get these stealthers to focus them down?From what Ive seen sorcs do alot of damage because of their aoe,and they can have dots ticking on multiple people but from my mmo experience that's not what makes a class op.Come rated warzones classes that can tank and do crazy burst damage are the ones people are gonna want.

[paul_preib]

So question,If sorcs are sooo OP why can shadow and ops burst them down so easily?and If their survivability is soooo OP why not just get these stealthers to focus them down?From what Ive seen sorcs do alot of damage because of their aoe,and they can have dots ticking on multiple people but from my mmo experience that's not what makes a class op.Come rated warzones classes that can tank and do crazy burst damage are the ones people are gonna want.

 

 

 

The perception is for a few reasons

 

 

1.When dps specced they are perhaps the most support-centric of any non-healing class, which is magnified in huttball, which is a huge percentage of the warzones played at present due to faction numbers.

 

 

2.There's a lot of them-- one stream of purple lightning isn't going to do all that much damage alone three or four streams of it at once at the focused player is seeing red from all that purple, not unlike the current tracer/grav grousing.

 

 

3.Scale much better at lower gear-levels: Because they are built for utility and sustained damage over pure burst Sorc's hold up much better at lower gear-levels then other classes at the exchange of not scaling up as potently as other classes. An undergeared marauder is cannon fodder while an undergeared sorc can still contribute.

 

The counter to this is a full BM Marauder is a beast even against other well-geared classes, the sorc BM v BM isn't going to chew through anyone's health pool in short order in the same fashion. So an undergeared player has to deal with the sorc utility while being susceptible to the respectable damage output, making it look like a sorc has it all.

 

 

4.The anti-mosh'n'mash. I call those big everyone pile up and dps the crap out of each other type fights mosh pits, to players who like such things sorc's are obnoxious for being very disruptive to that big fustercluck type of fight, stunning/slowing/sprinting away/dropping an aoe knockback'n'root into the middle of things.

 

This is similar to the type of hate given to the 'gank-ish' classes (rogues, operatives, burglars, whatever your given MMO's stealth/stun/burst class is called).

 

 

5.Utility, utility, utility-- An extension of #4 and #1, pvp supremacy usually comes in three forms, the best burst, the best survivability, or the best utility. A dpser who can still throw a pseudo-worthwhile heal, pull/cleanse teammates, stun/knockback opponents, etc. These things all make them very handy cogs that fit well with many different combinations of parts.

 

On my sorc the performance match to match will vary wildly depending on what the situation calls for. I may not be a dps monster (sure I could pad dps numbers with heavy aoe if I wanted to, but if talking genuine functional dps...) but I counter that by trying to do all the little non-dps things to help my team out.

 

 

 

6.Escape artists- "oh I almost had the little coward but he bugged out" tends to get under a lot of people's skin. Classes with a vanish-type in-combat stealth make people angry in this fashion while a sorc can do something similar, using stun/slow/knockback + sprint away to avoid fights he doesn't wish to take part in.

 

 

 

7.Visibility-- Nothing says "A sorc did it" light bright purple lightning in a constant 30 meter-long stream. Overload with is jump-spin-kawam on the ground is one of the flashier knockbacks, whirlwind floats you spinning in the air.

 

Aside from maybe standing there stunned with electricity coursing through you and an oversized knife jutting from your sternum few classes have so many blatantly flashy animations tied to their abilities, making a sorc's involvement in whatever harm has just befallen you all the more obvious.

Edited March 14, 2012 by paul_preib

[rzrknight]

Fact of life.

 

Most likely over all the possible analogical stuff people can tell you , they are OP , because many players use them.

 

You will say:"But that makes no sense"

 

Yup it does, more player means that more *good* players are in there.

 

You dont remm when you beat 10 weak sorcs , you remm the freaking high sorc that owned you the whole wz.

[Caelrie]

So question,If sorcs are sooo OP why can shadow and ops burst them down so easily?and If their survivability is soooo OP why not just get these stealthers to focus them down?From what Ive seen sorcs do alot of damage because of their aoe,and they can have dots ticking on multiple people but from my mmo experience that's not what makes a class op.Come rated warzones classes that can tank and do crazy burst damage are the ones people are gonna want.

 

You're pretty much right on. If 1.2 doesn't change things, teams will be made entirely of marauders, assassins and bounty hunters.

[paul_preib]

Fact of life.

 

Most likely over all the possible analogical stuff people can tell you , they are OP , because many players use them.

 

You will say:"But that makes no sense"

 

Yup it does, more player means that more *good* players are in there.

 

You dont remm when you beat 10 weak sorcs , you remm the freaking high sorc that owned you the whole wz.

 

 

Good comparison. You don't necessarily remember when you popped an interrupt to completely throw that tracer/grav spammer off kilter-- but when you were busy worrying about someone else and that merc/commando had a few untouched seconds to chew a hole in your flashy new armor you don't forget so easily.

 

Ditto that one beastly Sentinel/Marauder that got himself perfectly geared and knows/plays the class exceedingly well that you just for the life of you can't beat-- I can remember the three or so that give me a tough time on my server, can't speak the same for those not so well-played who I have bit able to chew up.

[Rynis]

OP to me means over populated...just got done with a WZ with 6 sorc. Pretty annoying lol.

[Pvpingwithnoobs]

I will swap my sorc's op'ness for a marauders any day of the week

[paul_preib]

I will swap my sorc's op'ness for a marauders any day of the week

 

 

Meh anytime you chase "I want to be as good as X" it invites trouble.

 

 

Good bad or indifferent and despite the several alts I'm sure I'll bring up over time I'll stick by my sorc just because I enjoy the playstyle/vibe/etc. of the class-- pretty much why I had it pegged as my first class choice just from reading the first class overviews before touching the game itself.

[Battilea]

I believe the view of sorcs being OP has a lot to do with Huttball being the most common PvP warzone. It is something that is very well suited to them, since they have mobility in force speed, very useful utility in the pull friendly move, Overload to knock people off platforms, a few ranged CCs, and ranged damage to reach out and touch from the spot they just force sped to so they can pull the ball carrier there. It is all that utility, so well suited to huttball, that makes them a pain.

 

Overall, in terms of trying to kill the healers, well, Mercs are more of a pain to drop. Not that sorcs are easy (at least for a non-burst build), just easier than mercs

Edited March 15, 2012 by Battilea

[warultima]

I am a bit worry about my sorc performance in rated WZ. I guess I might still be useful as a healing bot for the superior premium "destroyer" classes like marauder.

 

My best buddy played a marauder and we are arguably one of the best duo on our server. We are both BM/Rakata re-moded to the teeth, and we routinely take on 3 to 4 players (up to our record 7). I run tri-spec offheal. I often find myself being focused and watching my buddy destory everyone thats on me in matter of seconds while I try to survive/kite/los the other team's focus fire (they are as well premades) and giving time for my buddy to lay them flat 1 by 1. We duo defended side turret vs 4+ enemy. Often time I will die due to focus fire after we killed 3 and my friend would pop undying rage to finish up the 4th while dot self healing and kill the 5th by the time I am back to the node off speeder and will heal him back up, just to stand still and watch the other the 5 we just killed to give up and turn around to go take other nodes half way back to us for more humiliation. Then I think about it, I am just a healing bot and a bait for my friends as the enemy will be focusing me knowing I would be healing the marauder if I dont die.

 

Over the entire WZ even tho I am heavily AoEing, he often surpass my dps by nearly exclusively doing single target damage.

 

When we were both fresh 50, I was able to slap him around EASY. Now as we both advanced in gear... I stand no chance against him 1v1. He rips me apart every time as he should.

 

Here's the "usual" fight breakdown in case newbs dont know what's going on.

1. He use his run speed to me slow me and started wacking me.

2. I force slow kite him, he force leap back to me slow me and keep pounding on me.

3. I overload knock him back, he force chock me as he lands, I pop freakfree hes back in melee slowed me and wacking me again.

4. I then force slow force speed to create space and turn around to force lightning kiting him while using procs on CL for max dps on him, he pop force camouflage (aka 4 second vanish with +speed) so the afore mentioned kiting doesnt work. He reveals himself in melee and slowed me and continue killing me.

5. I force slow, knock him back hes force leap is back and he jumps to me again.

 

Even if I get lucky and get to kite him a bit and score some pretty crits, he pops undying rage, I eletrocute him he breaks free and I am doomed because his resolve is already white.

 

Marauder has way more counter measures to beat sorcs utilities not mentioning their defensive cd + 99% mitigation undying rage.

 

People really have no clue, sorc is on the weak side against most all classes 1v1, the utilities give us time and help us survive longer while in hope your friends will come RESCUE you from the premium class will inevitably kill you soon or later.

 

I also have a rank 52 scoundrel on different server as republic. And is in the process of leveling a level 36 PT in pyrotech spec that I feel much more confortable as a "formidable dps" class even tho Powertech is wearing heavy armor and is very tanky, my single target DPS will crap on any sorc/sage easily...

 

WZs rightnow has "objectives" which made sorcs shine due to the supportive nature of the class. If there was an "Arena" PvP in the future where the "objectives" are "KILLKILLKILL" and nothing changes, sorcs will be nothing but a 2nd rated healer behind merc/commandos.

 

Its sad that many people dont see why.

Edited March 15, 2012 by warultima

[GrandMike]

Sorcs are OP when you play against terribads that let you freecast for whole duration of WZ.

 

Anyone with >2 live braincells have already figured out they are weaksauce, easiest class to shut down, and dies fastest of them all.

 

Unfortunately there are gazillion of terribads that need to L2P, but instead of that they like QQing how facerolling doesnt work

Edited March 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[mitigated]

So question,If sorcs are sooo OP why can shadow and ops burst them down so easily?and If their survivability is soooo OP why not just get these stealthers to focus them down?From what Ive seen sorcs do alot of damage because of their aoe,and they can have dots ticking on multiple people but from my mmo experience that's not what makes a class op.Come rated warzones classes that can tank and do crazy burst damage are the ones people are gonna want.

 

did you just ask how Operatives can burst them down so easily? Are you kidding me? you have got to be a troll.

[Jamuro]

Soc op threads ... and i thought they were finaly gone

 

It's true in low lvl brackets sorcs own ... big time ... they get their skills way earlier than most other classes and the bubble can take a lot of pressure of the sorc in those brackets.

 

But in lvl50 brackets vs people in pvp gear sorcs suck .... big time ... squishy as hell ... dead even in healer spec faster than any other class.... it's kite for your live ... and that only works for hutball.

 

The reason for this is, that pvp gear (lets assume equal gear so expertise doesn't matter) increases the damage output (as weird as it may sound, with a few rataka pieces it's even more so) but the sorcs defensive abilites don't scale at the same rate.

 

While in low lvl pvp your bubble was able to take a few hits, in lvl50 wz with equal gear it absorbs most of the time only one or sometimes two damage skills.

 

Plus the sorcs single target damage is probably the worst in the whole game (for dps specs).

All the shiny high numbers at the end of a wz come from aoe spells.

So if bound in a fight with a single enemy attacking ... sorcs lose the damage race most of the times (against a skilled player).

[matekwong]

Sorcs are easy to beat if you know what you are doing. Pretty annoying tho. Especially healers who time their bubbles.

[Redmarx]

Only bad players think sorcs are OP.

 

Sorcs are mediocre in group PVP because they lack defensive cooldowns as healers and don't do enough damage as DPS. Their "control" is not very different from other classes. Merc healers are far better and harder to shut down and kill.

 

If you cannot assist down a sorc in a few seconds, it means you only PVP at low level and don't understand how to assist, interrupt and CC.

 

Watch below the results of a tournament with actual PVPers, not pugging terribads.

 

Replay: http://www.twitch.tv/strikinginsanity/b/311379895

 

What to know:

- Sages / Sorcerers die instantly to coordinated melee even with taunts and Guard.

- Healing Commando / DPS Vanguard / DPS Vanguard won the whole thing.

- Sentinels / Marauders have an insane amount of survivability.

- In general, melee are completely destroying ranged. This is partially because of the size of the pit, but it's also largely because of how hard it is to kite two coordinated melee.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Redmarx

[DariuszPol]

Sorcs are OP when you play against terribads that let you freecast for whole duration of WZ.

 

Anyone with >2 live braincells have already figured out they are weaksauce, easiest class to shut down, and dies fastest of them all.

 

Unfortunately there are gazillion of terribads that need to L2P, but instead of that they like QQing how facerolling doesnt work

 

I think that you are the one who should learn to play. Sorc is not PURE DPS class. He is more like utility class. I know because after Operative, Bounty Hunter and Juggenout it was time to try Sorc.

Shut down ? Sorc can put bubble every 20 seconds that last 30 seconds if not attacked. And he can put it on friends too!. If attacked by mele he can stun, push back, root or snare. If annoyed by mele he can hit force speed and run away a little. He can be constantly protected by bubble and if needed he can pull "help" or pull enemy into the pit or something.

 

Using all utility Sorcs are VERY OP in Warzone because amount of things he can do AND because in WZ it is often more important than DPS.

 

My friend (high lvl sorc) save me more than once with simple trick. When in trouble he hit force speed, get away on 30m, pull me back and start healing. Before enemy was right back on us - we had full health and they didn't.

 

Even if you stun, root or snare my friend in hutball before last fire I can forcesprint to score line and pull him (yes, pull work on stun friends). Pure score. Even fire don't stop me. I will get 1 tick or none if I do small trick.

 

Sorc is utility class and it is very powerfull BUT I agree that as DPS - not so well except killing stupid mele. All you need is to keep distance.

~ protect yourself using bubles

~ push them back

~ root them

~ stun them

~ snare them

~ use force sprint to get away on 30m range

~ repeat

They almost never run out of resources.

 

But they will be killed by range classes like Sniper or Bounty Hunter. They die pretty fast if they are focus on DPS because channeling require them to stand still. And they weak against Operatives.

 

Sorcs are OP in Warzone as utility class but they are not OP in normal 1vs1 situation or group fights.

 

Something like that.

[Zican]

Sorcs are OP when you play against terribads that let you freecast for whole duration of WZ.

 

Anyone with >2 live braincells have already figured out they are weaksauce, easiest class to shut down, and dies fastest of them all.

 

Unfortunately there are gazillion of terribads that need to L2P, but instead of that they like QQing how facerolling doesnt work

 

Well no, Merc/Commandos are the easiest class to shut down. Sorc/Sage are OP because of the sheer amount of utility they have, most of which they don't even need to spec for. Friendly pull, bubble, force run, heals, ranged instant cast snare and interrupt, channeled damage snare, and AoE knockback. Then when you add tree abilities like instant cast 8 second stun and stun on bubble break, you can start to see "Hey, maybe they have too much ****" when compared to every other class. This is all on top of them being able to do good damage.

 

This isn't a L2P issue.

[da_krall]

The perception is for a few reasons

 

 

1.When dps specced they are perhaps the most support-centric of any non-healing class, which is magnified in huttball, which is a huge percentage of the warzones played at present due to faction numbers.

 

 

2.There's a lot of them-- one stream of purple lightning isn't going to do all that much damage alone three or four streams of it at once at the focused player is seeing red from all that purple, not unlike the current tracer/grav grousing.

 

 

3.Scale much better at lower gear-levels: Because they are built for utility and sustained damage over pure burst Sorc's hold up much better at lower gear-levels then other classes at the exchange of not scaling up as potently as other classes. An undergeared marauder is cannon fodder while an undergeared sorc can still contribute.

 

The counter to this is a full BM Marauder is a beast even against other well-geared classes, the sorc BM v BM isn't going to chew through anyone's health pool in short order in the same fashion. So an undergeared player has to deal with the sorc utility while being susceptible to the respectable damage output, making it look like a sorc has it all.

 

 

4.The anti-mosh'n'mash. I call those big everyone pile up and dps the crap out of each other type fights mosh pits, to players who like such things sorc's are obnoxious for being very disruptive to that big fustercluck type of fight, stunning/slowing/sprinting away/dropping an aoe knockback'n'root into the middle of things.

 

This is similar to the type of hate given to the 'gank-ish' classes (rogues, operatives, burglars, whatever your given MMO's stealth/stun/burst class is called).

 

 

5.Utility, utility, utility-- An extension of #4 and #1, pvp supremacy usually comes in three forms, the best burst, the best survivability, or the best utility. A dpser who can still throw a pseudo-worthwhile heal, pull/cleanse teammates, stun/knockback opponents, etc. These things all make them very handy cogs that fit well with many different combinations of parts.

 

On my sorc the performance match to match will vary wildly depending on what the situation calls for. I may not be a dps monster (sure I could pad dps numbers with heavy aoe if I wanted to, but if talking genuine functional dps...) but I counter that by trying to do all the little non-dps things to help my team out.

 

 

 

6.Escape artists- "oh I almost had the little coward but he bugged out" tends to get under a lot of people's skin. Classes with a vanish-type in-combat stealth make people angry in this fashion while a sorc can do something similar, using stun/slow/knockback + sprint away to avoid fights he doesn't wish to take part in.

 

 

 

7.Visibility-- Nothing says "A sorc did it" light bright purple lightning in a constant 30 meter-long stream. Overload with is jump-spin-kawam on the ground is one of the flashier knockbacks, whirlwind floats you spinning in the air.

 

Aside from maybe standing there stunned with electricity coursing through you and an oversized knife jutting from your sternum few classes have so many blatantly flashy animations tied to their abilities, making a sorc's involvement in whatever harm has just befallen you all the more obvious.

 

This post sums up why 90% of the population dont like sorc and think they are OP, when infact as a DPS class they are pretty average.

[RenegadeSLX]

Remove knockbacks and everything is kay

[BeeSiK]

You're pretty much right on. If 1.2 doesn't change things, teams will be made entirely of marauders, assassins and bounty hunters.

 

marauders get shut down by chain aoe cc, anything melee does..just stack healing sorc's with hybrid assassins..and youll beat any marauder team.

[Redmarx]

Well no, Merc/Commandos are the easiest class to shut down. Sorc/Sage are OP because of the sheer amount of utility they have, most of which they don't even need to spec for. Friendly pull, bubble, force run, heals, ranged instant cast snare and interrupt, channeled damage snare, and AoE knockback. Then when you add tree abilities like instant cast 8 second stun and stun on bubble break, you can start to see "Hey, maybe they have too much ****" when compared to every other class. This is all on top of them being able to do good damage.

 

This isn't a L2P issue.

 

It is a L2P issue. Good players do not think sorcs are OP or have too much utility. You just lack PVP experience and skill.

 

marauders get shut down by chain aoe cc, anything melee does..just stack healing sorc's with hybrid assassins..and youll beat any marauder team.

 

Bad marauder pugs get shut down that way. I have no issues with CC at all.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Redmarx

[da_krall]

I think that you are the one who should learn to play. Sorc is not PURE DPS class. He is more like utility class. I know because after Operative, Bounty Hunter and Juggenout it was time to try Sorc.

Shut down ? Sorc can put bubble every 20 seconds that last 30 seconds if not attacked. And he can put it on friends too!. If attacked by mele he can stun, push back, root or snare. If annoyed by mele he can hit force speed and run away a little. He can be constantly protected by bubble and if needed he can pull "help" or pull enemy into the pit or something.

 

Using all utility Sorcs are VERY OP in Warzone because amount of things he can do AND because in WZ it is often more important than DPS.

 

My friend (high lvl sorc) save me more than once with simple trick. When in trouble he hit force speed, get away on 30m, pull me back and start healing. Before enemy was right back on us - we had full health and they didn't.

 

Even if you stun, root or snare my friend in hutball before last fire I can forcesprint to score line and pull him (yes, pull work on stun friends). Pure score. Even fire don't stop me. I will get 1 tick or none if I do small trick.

 

Sorc is utility class and it is very powerfull BUT I agree that as DPS - not so well except killing stupid mele. All you need is to keep distance.

~ protect yourself using bubles

~ push them back

~ root them

~ stun them

~ snare them

~ use force sprint to get away on 30m range

~ repeat

They almost never run out of resources.

 

But they will be killed by range classes like Sniper or Bounty Hunter. They die pretty fast if they are focus on DPS because channeling require them to stand still. And they weak against Operatives.

 

Sorcs are OP in Warzone as utility class but they are not OP in normal 1vs1 situation or group fights.

 

Something like that.

 

This is a prime example of someone who has formed their opinion on sorc from the 1-49 bracket.

[me_unknown]

The perception is for a few reasons

 

 

1.When dps specced they are perhaps the most support-centric of any non-healing class, which is magnified in huttball,

there is at least one better support class for huttball

 

The counter to this is a full ...

every class but a grav round commando.

 

5.Utility, utility, utility-- An extension of #4 and #1, pvp supremacy usually comes in three forms, the best burst, the best survivability, or the best utility. A dpser who can still throw a pseudo-worthwhile heal, pull/cleanse teammates, stun/knockback opponents, etc. These things all make them very handy cogs that fit well with many different combinations of parts.

sure, but it is very strange as there are more classes with at load utilities while doing far more damage (single target) and/or are able to eat more.

 

6.Escape artists- "oh I almost had the little coward but he bugged out" tends to get under a lot of people's skin. Classes with a vanish-type in-combat stealth make people angry in this fashion while a sorc can do something similar, using stun/slow/knockback + sprint away to avoid fights he doesn't wish to take part in.

there are two classes that can much easier escape than a sorc/sage. heck, a shadow/assa cans print AND vanish.

 

but beside of this you gave good reasons for the very fals impression most forum trolls have here.

[CRNphg]

My main char is a 50 Sorcerer. Currently valor level 65. I'm in a pvp oriented guild.

 

However why sorcs would be overpowered I have no clue.

 

Sages have pretty much the same abilities as sorcs, so faction wise balance is fine.

Apart from appearances it doesn't really matter if you're metled down by lightning or shaved down by little flying pebbles.

 

In huttball sorcs can make a big difference to the speed of the game if left alone. But get a team full of sorcs and watch the fail. Personally I find hutball the most enjoyable warzone as it utilizes all the different class abilities.

 

As my build is focussed on lightning (long ranged dps) I depend heavily on the support of my team as i've got about as much defense as a butterfly and my bubble pops after 1 hit and takes way to long to be able to use again.

 

So can someone please clarify why sorcs are OP?

[GrandMike]

So can someone please clarify why sorcs are OP?

 

They shootz lightningz!

 

I think its lightning envy

Edited March 15, 2012 by GrandMike