Jedi Consulars and their OP Bubbles

[Horon]

I know this isn't a complaint department but I'm here to complain anyway. I'm pretty sure most people have noticed but Jedi Consulars and their bubbles are driving me to insanity. It takes usually 3 people just to kill 1 consular in this game and some times their not even heal spec. If there is a class that can be called a 'hybrid' it would be the consulars because they can sustain themselves the most while healing other classes and still doing lots of damage. I play a healer bounty hunter and I still can't even keep my team as stable as consulars dude. If consulars should have bubbles that are overpowered then I think bounty hunters should too, I'm tired of my dry healing abilities. Rapid scan and healing scan aren't enough. Throw in a bubble or make it fair and nerf consulars. Who agrees?

[Talizzar]

It does not take 3 people to kill a consular. It takes one who understands interrupts.

 

Half your problem is your mental attitude. You just want BW to make it easy for you instead of learning how to kill a class or learning that you as a healer are not going to kill another healer unless you out gear them badly.

[Somokon]

The problem isn't the the amount of damage the bubble absorbs is overpowered, it's the fact that the sorc/sage can cast it before a fight, then when it runs out, cast it again, effectively giving them a huge health bonus.

 

Making the debuff start counting down after the bubble expires, and not when they cast it, would balance this skill, and bring it in line with the other defensive cooldowns in the game.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Somokon

[Tiresias]

Jedi Counselor is a base class.

 

Jedi Shadows and their Empire equivalent, Sith Assassins, do not have "bubbles".

 

Jedi Sages and their Empire equivalent, Sith Sorcerers, have an active damageshield. The Sage version is called "Force Armor" and the Sorcerer version is called "Static Barrier".

 

I get the feeling that you do not understand the mechanics of the game very well.

 

Also, the problem with Sages and Sorcerers in PvP has very little to do with their "bubble" and much more to do with several questionable overarching decisions, such as:

 

-Heavy Armor not providing much more mitigation than Light Armor.

-Every class having a long-duration, long-range, instant-cast stun except for two (the Knight/Warrior classes, who instead have a 3-second channeled stun).

-Almost every class, including high-DPS or high healing output classes, having very powerful defensive cooldowns.

-Generally weak offensive cooldowns.

 

 

And so forth. Sages and Sorcerers have an incredible amount of utility and are highly mobile casters. They are extremely difficult for most melee classes to pin down and that makes them difficult to counter.

[kweassa]

Bubbles are fine.

[Arlette]

The problem isn't the the amount of damage the bubble absorbs is overpowered, it's the fact that the sorc can cast it before a fight, then when it runs out, cast it again, effectively giving them a huge health bonus.

 

Making the debuff start counting down after the bubble expires, and not when they cast it, would balance this skill, and bring it in line with the other defensive cooldowns in the game.

 

That bubble is the equivalent of the Commando/Merc insta heal. Sage does not have an instant heal, all sage heals have cast time and are easy to interrupt, furthermore that shield is what puts Sages/Sorcs in line with Heavy Armor healers (the above mentioned) and gives them a chance to survive the hordes of Shadows and Assassins and Ops and Scoundrels that hit 4-5k on the poor squishies with light armor.

[Cegenaus]

It does not take 3 people to kill a consular. It takes one who understands interrupts.

 

Half your problem is your mental attitude. You just want BW to make it easy for you instead of learning how to kill a class or learning that you as a healer are not going to kill another healer unless you out gear them badly.

 

merc/commando does not have an interrupt

[Somokon]

That bubble is the equivalent of the Commando/Merc insta heal. Sage does not have an instant heal, all sage heals have cast time and are easy to interrupt, furthermore that shield is what puts Sages/Sorcs in line with Heavy Armor healers (the above mentioned) and gives them a chance to survive the hordes of Shadows and Assassins and Ops and Scoundrels that hit 4-5k on the poor squishies with light armor.

 

Mercs/commandos aren't able to cast their instant heal twice in a row.

[Acyu]

merc/commando does not have an interrupt

 

neither can they be interrupted.

 

in before cooldown, then i go mine has cooldown, then you go yours is longer, then i go yours is better, etc etc etc

Edited March 14, 2012 by Acyu

[Acyu]

Mercs/commandos aren't able to cast their instant heal twice in a row.

 

we can?

 

Oh you mean those "well-timed" double bubble trouble?

[Acyu]

this thread is hilarious.

 

 

It's been proven time and time again that sages/sorcerers are mediocre in high-end GROUP pvp (full champion / BM) and TRASH in high-end 1v1.

 

They may be the best AoE healer, but commandos are the best small scale and 1v1 longevity/survivability healer.

 

AoE heal is meaningless.

[nallard]

That bubble is the equivalent of the Commando/Merc insta heal. Sage does not have an instant heal, all sage heals have cast time and are easy to interrupt, furthermore that shield is what puts Sages/Sorcs in line with Heavy Armor healers (the above mentioned) and gives them a chance to survive the hordes of Shadows and Assassins and Ops and Scoundrels that hit 4-5k on the poor squishies with light armor.

 

Umm..sorry but the bubble is not the same. I play both a 50 sage and a 50 commando as healers. Bacta Infusion (and it's mirror) is on a 17 second cd with the set bonus. Force Armor is essentially spammable (with talents) on your entire team. It's probably the sages most powerful healing ability in terms of its usefulness. It is far, far better than Bacta Infusion.

 

Think of it this way. If you use force armor on a full health target, you're basically pre-healing that person, freeing you up to heal other targets. Force Armor can last through multiple hits and heals (or prevents damage) for more than Bacta Infusion, unless BI crits (in which case they're about equal). If you use Bacta Infusion on a full health target, you've wasted the spell.

[nallard]

neither can they be interrupted.

 

in before cooldown, then i go mine has cooldown, then you go yours is longer, then i go yours is better, etc etc etc

 

You're thinking of the commando energy shield which reduces incoming damage by 25% and makes the commando un-interruptable for its duration. And it's on a 2 min cd. That is our major defensive cooldown and is not the same as the bubble. Force Armor (the bubble) is completely different in use and design.

[Calista_ZK]

Umm..sorry but the bubble is not the same. I play both a 50 sage and a 50 commando as healers. Bacta Infusion (and it's mirror) is on a 17 second cd with the set bonus. Force Armor is essentially spammable (with talents) on your entire team. It's probably the sages most powerful healing ability in terms of its usefulness. It is far, far better than Bacta Infusion.

 

Think of it this way. If you use force armor on a full health target, you're basically pre-healing that person, freeing you up to heal other targets. Force Armor can last through multiple hits and heals (or prevents damage) for more than Bacta Infusion, unless BI crits (in which case they're about equal). If you use Bacta Infusion on a full health target, you've wasted the spell.

 

I bolded the line that meant me go "seriously"? several hits with what, and by whom? that's some bubble, even if talented.. don't think so;)

[Betaateb]

Umm..sorry but the bubble is not the same. I play both a 50 sage and a 50 commando as healers. Bacta Infusion (and it's mirror) is on a 17 second cd with the set bonus. Force Armor is essentially spammable (with talents) on your entire team. It's probably the sages most powerful healing ability in terms of its usefulness. It is far, far better than Bacta Infusion.

 

Think of it this way. If you use force armor on a full health target, you're basically pre-healing that person, freeing you up to heal other targets. Force Armor can last through multiple hits and heals (or prevents damage) for more than Bacta Infusion, unless BI crits (in which case they're about equal). If you use Bacta Infusion on a full health target, you've wasted the spell.

 

Different classes are different?

 

Merc healers are incredible right now, the best PvP healer in the game in a full BM vs. BM WZ without any doubt.

 

Sorc healers are also quite good, but for very different reasons. Sorc healers come with the best utility but mediocre survivability compared to mercs and ops.

 

As for sorc dps, sorcs are one of the few specs in the game with absolutely no true defensive cooldowns. Sorcs have abilities that can be used defensively (force speed, overload, whirlwind, electrocute) but no ability that says "use me to take less damage". As a result static barrier is the bulk of a sorcs defense, and while it is extremely strong against bads, once you start fighting BM geared people static barrier melts away almost like it was never used, it doesn't even absorb half of a Smash from a geared jugg or marauder.

 

TL:DR Static Barrier is fine, quite being bad.

[Evuke]

consulars = sages and shadows, only sages have bubbles.

 

also to the genius who said interupt bubbles, they are instant.

 

also, bubbles are only 3.5k, if you can't dps more than 3.5k in a few seconds you need to re-roll in RL.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Evuke

[nallard]

I bolded the line that meant me go "seriously"? several hits with what, and by whom? that's some bubble, even if talented.. don't think so;)

 

The bubble absorbs about 3.5k damage. If someone crits a major ability, it will disappear in 1 hit. If someone hits you without critting, it will take more than one hit to get through).

[Horon]

Don't compare the Sage bubble with the instant heal bounty hunters get, first of all the instant heal only heals around 1.3k and second of all it has a horrible CD.

[nallard]

Different classes are different?

 

Merc healers are incredible right now, the best PvP healer in the game in a full BM vs. BM WZ without any doubt.

 

Sorc healers are also quite good, but for very different reasons. Sorc healers come with the best utility but mediocre survivability compared to mercs and ops.

 

As for sorc dps, sorcs are one of the few specs in the game with absolutely no true defensive cooldowns. Sorcs have abilities that can be used defensively (force speed, overload, whirlwind, electrocute) but no ability that says "use me to take less damage". As a result static barrier is the bulk of a sorcs defense, and while it is extremely strong against bads, once you start fighting BM geared people static barrier melts away almost like it was never used, it doesn't even absorb half of a Smash from a geared jugg or marauder.

 

TL:DR Static Barrier is fine, quite being bad.

 

I play in a high end PvP guild and I play both a sage and a commando. Your assumption that I'm bad is both incorrect and a stupid way to try to win an argument. Do you play both classes? Are you speaking from experience? Or are you parroting what you perceive of as "the accepted wisdom" that commando/mercs are the best healers?

 

For single target healing, Commando/Mercs are great, but they are severely limited in the amount of healing they can usefully spread around. They are also very immobile. In the same way that Gunnery spec'd commandos are turrets, Combat Medic commandos are healing turrets.

 

Two or three dps can pile on one commando healer, and that healer can live for a while. He'll die, but it will take effort. If a sage gets pinned by 2 dps, then that sage is going to die quickly.

 

But the sage is a very mobile class. They should be constantly moving, only stopping for long enough to channel or cast a single time. If they pillar hump correctly, they will easily have as much uptime as a commando, and they'll be able to put out more healing in that time. Additionally they will be able to spread it out over the whole warzone more effectively.

 

Commandos are support healers, and very good ones, but if I could only pick one healer to bring with me, I'd pick a sage. And it would be the right choice.

Edited March 14, 2012 by nallard

[Tservo]

Haha bubble. That's great. And when bubble is down, we're dead in 5 seconds. Worst class to play in a WZ, sorc/sage.

[Redmarx]

I know this isn't a complaint department but I'm here to complain anyway. I'm pretty sure most people have noticed but Jedi Consulars and their bubbles are driving me to insanity. It takes usually 3 people just to kill 1 consular in this game and some times their not even heal spec. If there is a class that can be called a 'hybrid' it would be the consulars because they can sustain themselves the most while healing other classes and still doing lots of damage. I play a healer bounty hunter and I still can't even keep my team as stable as consulars dude. If consulars should have bubbles that are overpowered then I think bounty hunters should too, I'm tired of my dry healing abilities. Rapid scan and healing scan aren't enough. Throw in a bubble or make it fair and nerf consulars. Who agrees?

 

Merc healers are far better than sorc healers.

 

Sorcs are too squishy and lack proper defensive cooldowns, making them an easy choice for assist target.

 

If anything, sorcs might need a buff.

[Daiyukie]

Merc healers are far better than sorc healers.

 

Sorcs are too squishy and lack proper defensive cooldowns, making them an easy choice for assist target.

 

If anything, sorcs might need a buff.

 

.... No. Just no.

[paul_preib]

I'd say the biggest issue is that sorc's tend to have a leg up baseline-wise but don't scale up as heartily as other classes.

 

 

 

So you throw a match of only 100% ungeared, fresh 50's into a warzone a sorceror's will be in a pretty good place.

 

 

Take everyone to say half cent/half champ the playing field starts getting a little more interesting

 

 

Put everyone in full champ to BM gear and those sorc's start looking quite squishy.

 

 

3k bubble + 13k health taking 2k-2500 crits and the survivability seems a little over the top for the light-armor class (i.e. dying in 6-7 hits)

 

 

3k bubble + 16k health taking 3500-4500 crits and they look a good bit more 'light' (dying in 4-5 hits).

 

 

Likewise the sorc's own damage as a slow-but steady can make good work on an undergeared targets, but isn't necessarily going to scale up that dramatically.

[sensiblepoast]

The sorcs I use to group with are rather very annoyed when they don't get over 500k damage plus heals over any warzone. Because it rarely doesn't happen. Sorc hybrids bring way too much to the table compared with the rest of the classes.

[oPURT]

After reading this thread I came up with this will thought out and accurate response:

 

Blah, blah, blah......