WoW beta probably had more content than SWTOR live. For WoW live you had 1-30 non-overlapping leveling zones for EACH RACE, and 1-60 non-overlapping leveling zones for EACH faction. Azeroth was HUGE in comparison to the "planets" SWTOR had to offer. Not to mention the vastly superior instances and many times more quests. It also had three BGs (vastly superior BGs such as the awesome AV). As crap as it's honor system was, it had much more depth than SWTOR's valor system at launch. And it had MC, which is larger and has more bosses than EV/KP COMBINED (and it was more difficult than "nightmare EV/KP). Not to mention it can actually fit 40 people in a large environment without lagging. SWTOR took a huge step backward from WoW. As much as people bad mouth WoW now, people have come from WoW, and SWTOR is a step down from almost all aspects besides the "storytelling" part of the game - which is NOTHING unique. And the only reason why UNBALANCED, SUPER BUGGY, "contents" were released so quickly was because people were complaining that they ran out of things to do after the first 2 months. Just look at how they said they would release rated, then backed out on it. They weren't ready for launch, and they're not ready now. The 1 million gap between copies purchased -> now-subscribed says plenty (43% decrease). Blame it on EA, but that's just what SWTOR is.

not to mention bubble is not affected by expertise and only by stats, meaning a sage/sorc's only "defensive CD" is just getting worse and worse compared to damage skills that are scaling with expertise AND stats.

what DO you play? operative? By the way, the single most OP ability in huttball (which is really the only setting you're complaining about pull) is grapple/force pull. It not only COUNTERS pull (well the same can be say the other way around), it is like a free kill button with stun.

First you say it is up there with jugg charges, yet you ask why it is in the game. Then why are jugg "intercede" and leap in the game then, lol. Obviously it was intended. Sorcerers are GREAT utility players in huttball, slow, rescue, stun, CC, and knockback. However, if you have a team consisting of sorcerers, or a majority of sorcerers, that team is total crap. A good team will NEVER allow your sorcerers to go to the endzone. You force speed charge to the endzone for rescue? LOL PULL YOU BACK. Rescue is awesome, don't get me wrong. But asking for it's removal? When sorcerer already took a big nerf in 1.2 that makes them an even more of a utility-only support class in premades, that would probably make sorcerers one of the least desirable class in 1.2. Rescue doesn't have a "short" CD compared to all other similar abilities. Charge, intercede, force pull, grapple, all forms of stuns and CCs, all have shorter CDs than rescue.

Lol. Nice BS. And btw, I regularly see sentinels break 1 million damage in all warzones and 300K healing with their silly dot spec. see what i did there?

Assassins can heal? please teach me.

Those are statistics? Do you even know what a statistic is?

exactly. That means for every person you kill, you're taking out TWO "players" from that team. And for the team that loses a player, they're now down TWO "players."

Truly a L2P issue. I've had situations where I've survived 15-20 seconds against THREE melee dps (2 marauders and 1 jug) because they did ZERO interrupts, ZERO mezzes, and ZERO chokes while engaging in "ME SMASH U!" mode. I've also had situations where I dangle at ~20-40% HP against a single powertech and marauders because they know how to interrupt. And then I die when I even waste ONE GCD on a fellow teammate or when they get help for a few seconds. I've also had situations where I get stunlocked by an operative from 100 -> 0 when I don't have my stun-breaker and when they get some nice crits. Honestly it's such a L2P issue. The interrupts in this game is probably one of the most responsive spell. It's not on GCD, and it happens pretty much instantaneously without the whole "ability lag."

Seriously, why? Why does it have a second or two of DELAY before you are actually able to move after taking damage? Any form of damage should break the mezzes, but some don't. And even if they do break mezzes, it's not instantaneous, and you usually end up taking a lot of damage before you can even act coming out of a mez.

well warcraft only had 3 battlegrounds for launch. WSG, AB, AV. Too bad those were WAY better designed than the WZs in swtor. Huttball = wsg (carry the flag) Alderaan = ab (capture point / resources) Voidstar = SotA (a dumbed down version) AV was FUN, even though often it would turn into a long stalemate, it was still FUN most of the time. Then when you summon your faction boss and it's not "bugged," it's quite hilarious. But PvP can never be good in this game because of the lack of responsiveness and the inherit impossibility of SWTOR system to handle more than 16 people at a time.

You play WoW and you think force speed is same, or even similar, to a mage's blink? I lol'd. They're more like a improved sprint specced 2 second rogue sprint. Once you're "during-force speed" root can be reapplied, and you can be stunned. It is NOTHING like blink. Since you can blink during a STUN to break a stun, adding as an additional stun breaker. Blink is also instantaneous, and you can pretty much blink as far as a 2-second force speed will take you, except you cannot be rooted or stunned during your blink to destination. GL in lvl 50 warzones, I would love to see you "blink" away from DPS. Lol.

Oh. I'm getting trolled.

12K lightning channels, nice. I'm assuming you mean 1.2K, which is really more upwards of BM geared sorcerers. I guess you miss the whole 6K AoE stomp a guardian has, or 3-4K tracer missile spam, or really any other class. I cleanse dots all the time. It is hilarious because sorcerers have 2 dots (one on a pretty long CD), and my cleanse takes off BOTH dots. There goes 2 GCDs. Friendly pull exploited? I guess leap, intercede, grapple, force pull, force push, etc, are not getting exploited. And no, dps spec sorcerers cannot heal better than healing specced healers.

Because they scale well 1-49 and beginning parts of 50. Once you start fighting geared individuals, such as those in champion gears or battlemaster gears, sorcerers become punching bags. Their abilities simply don't scale well endgame compared to some other classes. Their only means of damage reduction, the bubble, scales TERRIBLY with gear, while other people's damage, and effective health through percentage-based damage reduction abilities scale WAY BETTER than bubble. A perfect example would be how people go from beating at a bubbled sorcerer "forever" to break a bubble to bursting a bubble in one crit. Without damage reduction, the only other choice to stay alive would be to either try to CC -> "burst" or to CC -> run/heal. The latter usually turns into a sorcerer becoming useless from constantly LoS'ing and running from their opponents. This is especially relevant in warzones since running away usually means you're not doing objectives (except in Huttball if you're running with the ball). Once you've used your force speed to "get away," you're stuck with normal run speed to try to get back into the fight. You have no closer and no enemy-pull. If you take the first option, you usually cannot kill your opponent because they either popped a defensive cooldown or is just too geared to be killed within the CC. Once a sorcerer gets attacked, they die SUPER fast. And more often than not, they cannot force speed away because of root, stun, closer, or pull. Any decent player will know how to counter force speed. The only spec decent for sorcerers in end-game PvP is healing spec, and that is getting "fixed." They were never "OP" to begin with, people are just mad that so many players chose sorcerer/sages.

sorry stopped watching after the first ~50 seconds when you got the ball in huttball but continued to tunnelvision DPS to get "big damages" and kills.

so you lost?

many classes also got buffed in damage. Also healers, specifically sorcerers, are complaining about cast time increase, which allows for more interrupts. when you get interrupted, your healing output is ZERO. I hear 25% increase from zero is still zero. I also hear if I can only heal 66% as often in 1.2, a 25% buff is still a 8% nerf.

/facepalm It's my fault for starting an argument with someone who doesn't play a sorcerer. Kinda like that one marauder who started a huge thread on how OP sorcerers were. Anyway, believe in what you want. I'm done. I rerolled marauder anyway.

Except it isn't. Because you can currently double-tap, while in 1.2 you cannot. So no matter how you "math it," Resurgence-DH in 1.2 will not heal as much as Resurgence-DI currently over the standard 4.5s (GCD + double tap). If you remove double tapping, then it's a 1.2 Resurgence-DI. And I also didn't realize PvP was a boss fight, where we look to the "long duration" healing average. Not to mention your math assumes DI does not crit, and you understated how huge of a difference recklessness and surge relics make in situations where burst healing is necessary for survivability in PvP, which is really what I've been saying all along since post 1.

No ****. We all know DI is going to be trash in 1.2, and we'll be stuck with DH unless we have free cast. Except your argument was that 1.2 Resurgence-DH will heal MORE than CURRENT Resurgence-DI most of the time. Which is simply untrue. Also, in 1.2, Resurgence-DH will NOT be more "force efficient" than resurgence-DI due to the 30% reduction in force buff. In short, with or without the double-tap fix, sorcerer took a pretty big hit in terms of surviviability in 1.2. Not sure how you can argue with that. Not to mention it's even worse for PvE sorcerers.

I'm not sure what to say other than that it is untrue. Do you play a sorcerer? No healing sorcerer will say it with a straight face that HoT-DH is comparable to HoT-DI currently, without recklessness and relic. You're either way overestimating the amount DH heals for, underestimating the amount DI heals for, or have zero experience playing as a sorcerer to know the dramatic difference between the two rotations. edit: and seriously? you think HoT-DH is better than HoT-DI efficiency-wise? edit2: Current HoT-2XDH with recklessness = HoT +5-6K heals. Current HoT-2XDI with recklessness = HoT +9-10K heals in the same amount of cast time. Minor difference?

the fact that most other classes were nerfed hard. go jugg, marauder, or assassins.

first, lets get this out of the way. I don't think other healers can heal 2-3 people. heck, no healer can do so. Maybe a guarded merc, maybe. But there are multiple individuals who posted on this thread claiming sorcerers are capable of doing so, and I am only responding to them. And dark heal is trash. It's crit is trash. It crits for about as much as a non-crit dark infusion. And if you think the new HoT + DH is as good, if not "better" 65% of the time, as the current HoT + DI double tap, you're delusional. The current HoT + DI gives a lot more versatility than 1.2 HoT + DH. Recklessness, for one. HoT + Recklessness + Double Tap DI is our burst heal savior right now. You won't have that with DH. Also, many people pop surge trinkets when they double tap DI, and that greatly increases the critical chance of DI, making it better than 1.2 HoT-DH the majority of the time. Not to mention DH is our most force inefficient heal aside from revivification. "Spamming" DH is simply not an option. And since you will also be needing to trade health for force to maintain DH rotation, you will die far quicker than the current DI rotation, with or without double tapping.

last time i checked sorcerer's dark infusion (pre-1.2) depended on casting another heal (the HoT for force bending). Any good sorcerer knows not to cast dark infusion at its 2.5 second cast time. Any good sorcerer will know to first cast their HoT, then dark infusion. Sure, it's not required, but that's how sorcerers play. The change will make the HoT less appealing since you cannot afford to use a GCD on a force-reduction buff. 2.5 second on every viable heal is ridiculous. Dark infusion is the ONLY viable heal when it comes to surviving. Bubble is a damn bandaid, and innervate (the channel) is only casted when you are interrupted or need a consumption buff... oh wait that's removed as well. And i don't understand where people get the idea that sorcerers can heal themselves AND 2-3 other people with DPS on these people. Pure lies, and you know it.