Please don't trivialize PVP gear in 1.2

[WhyNoNumbers]

I dont understand it lol. MMO PvP is FPSs multiplayer essentially. CoD and Battlefield have had it right for years and they have millions upon millions of happy loyal fans. All I hear is how no MMO has gotten PvP just right. Well ****, is the model not just sitting there looking MMO devs in the face?

 

Look at what CoD did. They took MMO aspects and put it in a FPS multi-player and its now the most successful game franchise every. Imagine what it would be like if there was a true marriage between the two.

 

I dont know what will come first, CoD/Battlefield MMO or SWTOR/WOW with perks and killstreaks, but ill **** my self with joy for either one lol.

 

Exactly, both have inched into the territory, but a true combination has not yet been achieved. That is the holy grail of gaming, whats sad is some players are so ingrained in the MMO history they cannot even think rationally about how to progress the genre. Just sad

 

FYI, if blizzard gets it right... Thats what Titan will be.

Edited March 12, 2012 by WhyNoNumbers

[Vodrin]

I know this will be an ongoing argument as we get closer to 1.2, but what it comes down to for me is what makes PvP fun. For me the best WZ are ones where I play with a solid team against an equally geared and skilled team. Getting rolled sucks, and rolling the other team sucks. I'm hoping rated wz's will mean getting matched with relatively even skilled/geared team mates and opponents. Hopefully whatever changes they make to gear and it's acquisition make it easier to come up with competitive matches.

[Subatomix]

Ooof. I could only make it to page 5 on this thread.

 

The ONLY thing I'm worried about is after having spent considerable time learning about the game, gear and mechanics ... which for me has meant carefully rev'enging purple lvl 49 armor, mods and earpieces, maxing out valor to my level ... finally dinging 50 in a day or two ... getting a decent amount of Cent and Champion gear ... then having a freshly minted level 50 in patch 1.2 be able to roll in with better gear than I because:

 

Champion gear will be available to purchase with credits

Battlemaster gear will be available to purchase with comms

 

And I'll have spent my 1000/1000 coms just recently on inferior gear.

 

So the patch isn't so much going to make gear equal for everyone. That will only be true for people just joining the SWTOR pvp scene. It will in effect penalize people who have been playing for a while and put them at a potential disadvantage to people just rolling into pvp.

 

My humble suggestion is that they should let people trade in "old" gear for some kind of cedit / com bonus so they can at least trade up. Then everyone will be on more of an equal footing.

[Obi-Shinobi]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

Bingo!!

Edited March 12, 2012 by Obi-Shinobi

[CharleyDanger]

Exactly, both have inched into the territory, but a true combination has not yet been achieved. That is the holy grail or gaming, whats sad is some players are so ingrained in the MMO history they cannot even think rationally about how to progress the genre. Just sad

 

FYI, if blizzard gets it right... Thats what Titan will be.

 

I think if every MMO player put a year into a CoD/Battlefield, and every FPS player put a year into SWTOR/WOW, then there would be an uprising in the gaming community. But I think that the learning curve is intimidating when entering either genre and it leaves people ignorant and stuck in their ways. If you told a random FPS player that CoD has MMORPG elements in it they would tell you to shut the **** up. When you tell MMO players that the PvP needs more FPS elements they tell you to shut the **** the up. If only they knew lol.

[MPagano]

FYI, if ArenaNet gets it right... Thats what GW2 will be.

 

Had some typos in there.

[Khoraji]

Exactly, both have inched into the territory, but a true combination has not yet been achieved. That is the holy grail of gaming, whats sad is some players are so ingrained in the MMO history they cannot even think rationally about how to progress the genre. Just sad

 

FYI, if blizzard gets it right... Thats what Titan will be.

 

Or maybe some people actually like MMO's how they are meant to be? I dont want all my games to be the same. Thats why we have different genres in the first place.

[thorizdin]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

This ^^ gear should be equalized as much as possible in PvP. BM/WH gear ought to be nice looking but have the same stats and Centurion should be merged into Champion.

[Hellapain]

Effort and work is not part of a game for entertainment. The minute they turn PvP into a part-time job you can count me out.

 

Sounds like you want rated warzones to become something akin to a WoW arena system which I despised.

 

The term 'welfare epic' was created by players with too much free time on their hands and wanted to keep their epic gear crutch so they could dominate other players not through skill but through pixels.

[MPagano]

Or maybe some people actually like MMO's how they are meant to be? I dont want all my games to be the same. Thats why we have different genres in the first place.

 

What makes you think something is meant to be a certain way? This type of reasoning undoes itself.

 

If you like how MMOs are now then you must owe thanks to the evolutionary process undertaken by the genre dating back to text MUDs decades ago (which I've played extensively). Do you like text MUDs? Do you like the changes in the MMO genre which has brought us to this game today? You can't appreciate any game in the genre today while condeming the very process that brought it about.

 

And make no mistake, MMOs are evolving. Every form of media and art evolves. It's why there's rock and roll, 3d movies, and rollercoasters.

[CharleyDanger]

Or maybe some people actually like MMO's how they are meant to be? I dont want all my games to be the same. Thats why we have different genres in the first place.

 

Your missing the point. No one is saying to make MMOs into FPSs. Would you call CoD a MMORPG? I didnt think so. Yet what made CoD the most successful game in history? The MMORPG elements that were added in CoD4. Would you call Madden Football an MMORPG? I didnt think so. What made Madden even more successful? The addition of MMORPG elements with Franchise Mode.

 

How many times do you hear "No MMO has gotten PvP just right"? Well why not take from the most successful PvP game in history, CoD.

Edited March 12, 2012 by CharleyDanger

[Agooz]

How many who only PVP will continue paying a subscription to a game where nobody cares about the tiny color carrot, or mount carrot(that you will never use if you all you do is pvp anyway)?

 

Not many I suspect.

 

Well I dont remember ever seeing anything about this game being pvp centric or even moderate. It actually is a very small part of the game. If/When the game decides to focus on PvP, I am sure it will be something else entirely.

[Agooz]

What makes you think something is meant to be a certain way? This type of reasoning undoes itself.

 

If you like how MMOs are now then you must owe thanks to the evolutionary process undertaken by the genre dating back to text MUDs decades ago (which I've played extensively). Do you like text MUDs? Do you like the changes in the MMO genre which has brought us to this game today? You can't appreciate any game in the genre today while condeming the very process that brought it about.

 

And make no mistake, MMOs are evolving. Every form of media and art evolves. It's why there's rock and roll, 3d movies, and rollercoasters.

 

Actually my absolute fondest memories is skipping class at the university so I can sit in the computer lab and get my DIKU Mud fix for the day. l loved DIKUs RPwise, PvPwise, everything.

[Delavager]

Your missing the point. No one is saying to make MMOs into FPSs. Would you call CoD a MMORPG? I didnt think so. Yet what made CoD the most successful game in history? The MMORPG elements that were added in CoD4. Would you call Madden Football an MMORPG? I didnt think so. What made Madden even more successful? The addition of MMORPG elements with Franchise Mode.

 

How many times do you hear "No MMO has gotten PvP just right"? Well why not take from the most successful PvP game in history, CoD.

 

HAaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahhahahaha.

 

This post made me laugh.

 

I can't remember the last time I've seen a post with absolutely no clue what they're talking about and stating figures out of left field.

[skunksir]

Exactly! I just started playing MMOs, and coming from FPSs, I could not believe that multi-player (PvP as you guys call it) had such gear advantages. I could not imagine playing CoD or Battlefield and having players that had weapons that were 10% better overall. Some weapons do 10% more damage but fire 10% slower. Your BM/Cent gear example would be like having a weapon that had 10% more damage and fired 10% faster. I think gear bonuses are fine, its like a perk system, but overall stat increases makes no sense in a PvP setting.

 

love how every1 quotes CoD, doesnt CoD that have ability to summon dogs and choppers at certain levels.. caus i dont ever remenber having those treats when i played casual, o yer doesnt Battlefield 3 have progression in weapons?

 

fact being u can whine about gear progression, but bioware has made it so F**king easy to get gear, no1 should moan about any gear porgression, doing your daily WZ gains u gear quick enough,

 

l

Edited March 12, 2012 by skunksir

[_DaGreat]

yes genetics are so unfair

and the worst part is that unlike gear grinding, people with higher iq and faster reflexes have most of them from birth without any sort of effort or time spend.

 

i'd say everyone participating in pvp has to make and iq test and those above average have to be drunk before they are allowed to play with the others (to make up for their unfair genetic skill advantage)

 

^^

 

You sold me at 'have to be drunk' ... you starting the petition drive or am I?

[highstandard]

First of all let me say, NO ONE but Bio ware knows, at this point exactly the cost/amount of effort required to get War Hero gear in 1.2

 

That said, the perceived notion is that Bio ware is going to trivialize, and 'give away' (welfare epics more or less) War Hero gear to anyone that participates in ranked WZ's. Please don't let this be the case. Many of us who love PVP ad out forth the time and effort should not be penalized, (IE allowing ANYONE access to war Hero Gear) we should be rewarded for our efforts. Again we don't know the exact details on how much and how hard the gear will be to acquire to through Rated WZ's, but it should go with out saying that those who put forth the time and effort to PVP and play to the best they can get REWARDED with access to War Hero gear.

 

I know this is a touchy subject, PVPer's want the Risk/Reward, and Gain access to pvp gear through time and effort while PVEer's just want the gear handed to them so they don't get stomped in PVP. If PVE players will have to work for gear once Nightmare mode is fixed, i feel that PVP players should also have to work just as hard to get BIS gear for PVP. It will be a huge mistake, and may even cause the loss of a substantial player base if PVP gear is dumbed down to the level that even the slightest or least effort in rated WZ results in access to the BIS pvp gear.

 

SIDE NOTE I know player play time is a factor in this decision, as most often those that play the most get the most, I am sort of OK with making lower lvl PVP gear more accessible to casual player, BUT please please require the BIS PVP gear substantial dedication and investment to gain access to this gear just like PVE nightmare mode will require.

 

 

In short..."I don't actually know anything about the upcoming patch, but am complaining about it beforehand because theres probably something in there I won't like"

 

There, saved you all one glorious minute.

[Dakotahorn]

Man I am so torn on valor no longer being a prereq for higher end pvp gear.

 

On one hand, I am really disapointed as I am just about to hit 50 and have been grinding out valor and coms for bags furiously. Which would make me feel.... cheated.

 

But on the other hand, I absolutely dread the butt kicking I'm going to take just because I jumped servers and started my character over again, while someone else just happened to be lvl 50 before me. I KNOW I am a solid pvp player and HATE the idea of being way behind the curve.

 

Also while I would personally prefer to play against elite groups and premade teams to continue to push me, I can't imagine that those type of people will ever be satisfied or ever stop whining. And I'm sure a lot more of the elitist jerks will be the first ones to jump ship to other games. However my PVE minded friends will be filling up the fleet still in a couple years and expansions later....

 

I don't care if it's a weak position, I'm going to trust BW and wait it out for now.

[_DaGreat]

 

The different skill between classes makes the battle more strategic, its adds another test of skill. The difference between classes give advantages and disadvantages alike. Better gear only gives an advantage.

 

Just like a 'true PVPer' (given the definition offered earlier) would want everyone to have the same gear, a 'true PVPer' should want everyone to have availability to the same skills. After all, are you really testing your PVP 'skills' against someone who picked the wrong profession to level to 50? If you are lined up against a 'gimped' (disadvantaged) profession how is that different then having a gear advantage? I am just looking for some consistency in what you are asking for.

[richardya]

Effort and work is not part of a game for entertainment. The minute they turn PvP into a part-time job you can count me out.

 

Sounds like you want rated warzones to become something akin to a WoW arena system which I despised.

 

Amen brother

 

When I was a kid they tried to force me to play baseball, then I found out they wanted me to pay attention at the plate, and practice, and run around the bases. Seyanara

 

Then my mom told me reading was fun, please, turning the pages and concentrating, no thank you.

 

In high school my friends would go to parties. SNOOZE. Driving, and getting dressed and walking around and talking, sorry, that is a job.

 

PvP is supposed to be fun, I dont even want to press the keys to be honest. That is work. These people saying progression is fun just wanna roll on fresh 50's. How in the world could anyone say leveling and getting gear is fun?

Edited March 12, 2012 by richardya

[venjinze]

Yep. People that actively seek an advantage that is only gained by time played aren't looking for competition. And I play an awful lot. I just don't think that I need stats to show from it. Cosmetic stuff? Absolutely. BIS gear? Why would I want a situation where winning is that much easier?

 

You somehow have the notion that people want gear to kill 12k HP opponents, same redundant speculation over and over on these forums. I can tell you that attaining gear in PvP is somewhat of a status symbol, I want rewards based off of skill AND time invested. I also want to face opponents of a similar mindset. I want the rewards to be distinct and yes I want them to have a statistical advantage over someone who hasn't put in as much time and effort as I have.

 

Where do you get this pseudo logic that some newly leveled 50 would even stand a chance against people who have been playing at this level for much longer? That's like walking into a new job, demanding you be paid the same as someone who's been there for 5 years with no relevant experience.

 

The same people will just come here with some new excuse as to why they can't be competitive in PvP, it won't be gear next time because of this ridiculous "give me gear or I'm going to quit" patch, but rest assured they will find something else to complain about.

[Spymaster]

Please don't trivialize PVP by making it all about gear.

 

Thanks.

[Dakotahorn]

Just like a 'true PVPer' (given the definition offered earlier) would want everyone to have the same gear, a 'true PVPer' should want everyone to have availability to the same skills. After all, are you really testing your PVP 'skills' against someone who picked the wrong profession to level to 50? If you are lined up against a 'gimped' (disadvantaged) profession how is that different then having a gear advantage? I am just looking for some consistency in what you are asking for.

 

This is seriously probably the... to put it nicely... worst arguement I have ever heard....

 

about anything.

[_DaGreat]

This is seriously probably the... to put it nicely... worst arguement I have ever heard....

 

about anything.

 

Thanks for the insightful analysis lol.... So why is it a bad argument?

[metalgearyoda]

First of all let me say, NO ONE but Bio ware knows, at this point exactly the cost/amount of effort required to get War Hero gear in 1.2

 

That said, the perceived notion is that Bio ware is going to trivialize, and 'give away' (welfare epics more or less) War Hero gear to anyone that participates in ranked WZ's. Please don't let this be the case. Many of us who love PVP ad out forth the time and effort should not be penalized, (IE allowing ANYONE access to war Hero Gear) we should be rewarded for our efforts. Again we don't know the exact details on how much and how hard the gear will be to acquire to through Rated WZ's, but it should go with out saying that those who put forth the time and effort to PVP and play to the best they can get REWARDED with access to War Hero gear.

 

I know this is a touchy subject, PVPer's want the Risk/Reward, and Gain access to pvp gear through time and effort while PVEer's just want the gear handed to them so they don't get stomped in PVP. If PVE players will have to work for gear once Nightmare mode is fixed, i feel that PVP players should also have to work just as hard to get BIS gear for PVP. It will be a huge mistake, and may even cause the loss of a substantial player base if PVP gear is dumbed down to the level that even the slightest or least effort in rated WZ results in access to the BIS pvp gear.

 

SIDE NOTE I know player play time is a factor in this decision, as most often those that play the most get the most, I am sort of OK with making lower lvl PVP gear more accessible to casual player, BUT please please require the BIS PVP gear substantial dedication and investment to gain access to this gear just like PVE nightmare mode will require.

 

You are right. Competition should be based off gear.