You won't have to wait that long. There are players already posting about OP and UP classes right now. There are also players already saying this game SUX because it doesn't have infinite gear grind progression or raiding or "insert personal preference" here. For me I'm just talking about the WvWvW content where organization, teamwork, tactics and skills in a largescale warfare scenario will trump any build/spec. I'm talking about the massive fun that GW2 calls WvWvW PvP. The game will not be for everyobdy but if you are looking for some exciting world PvP that features largescale sieging, medium scale raiding and small scale marauder style skirmishes then check it out and decide for yourself. I only wish SWTOR featured a quarter of what WvWvW offers and I would easily renew my 6-month subscription.

I guess that may true for the hypers who expect things that are not yet in the game to be in release. However, for me I'm not basing my opinion on expectations of WvWvW but rather on what I have already experienced during BWE2 and BWE3. I don't have any further expectations other than what is already available in WvWvW remains there on release and anything extra beyond that is just icing on the cake. I agree hype and expectations can easily be dashed upon release but what I experienced during the BWEs is neither. To be sure GW2 will not be for eveyone. There is no infinite gear grind (progression) and no raiding for gear. These devs are more focused on PvE/PvP fun and challenge with PvP additionally being more about strategy, tactics and skill than gear/stats. You can however grind for gear that has the best looks and fllashy effects if that suits you.

That is the beauty of the GW2 WvWvW. There are multiple maps with multiple objectives. Sure sieges on big castles are a bit zergy, but there other objectives like towers which usualy feature medium size battles, or supply camps which usually feature even smaller battles or even smaller still escort supply caravans which usually end being small scale skirmish battles. You can also assist mercenary mob camps and get them to fight on your side. The map is designed in a way to reduce the effectiveness of only zerging up and giving smaller marauder bands and even soloists opportunities to contribute. This also contributes to better performance even though hundreds of players are engagin on the same map area. It is hard to explain but this link provides detailed info http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

Well I never thought I would say it but I will be leaving for GW2 after experiencing the BWE 2 and 3. There are several reasons but the main ones are these 3. 1) I'm actually just focused on enjoying the game and exploring never knowing what dynamic event might popup near me versus linear old school questing and constantly chasing a carrot on a stick. 2) WvWvW is just an unbelievably fun experience that really has me hooked. If SWTOR ever featured something along these lines I would keep paying and playing. I actually envisioned how bad *** SWTOR could have been with something like this. 3) Even though I make good money and can easily pay I'm finding myself having at least as much or more fun in F2P and B2P games that makes me question why even play a subscription based game. These give me the freedom to spend as much as I want and when I want. Right now I have two that I regularly play with two more on the horizon. 1) World of Tanks 2) Tribes Ascend 3) GW2 (Coming Soon) 4) Mech Warriors Online (Coming Soon) Thus considering my limited free time for playing games I'm done once my 6-month subscription expires.

I have the same observation but on a US server. All this supposed rampant cheating and I've never experienced it either. Could I be that lucky?

Sorry ...I see now you have "in this game" within your assertion. I thought you meant any game. I stand corrected.

Wow ...this is a fine written response that accurately sums up my feelings exactly on the differences. I really miss the epic objective and realm pride aspect of SWG but SWTOR combat/gear mechanics are light years ahead of SWG. The only thing SWTOR and SWG have in common is the Star Wars theme and nothing more.

This is false. You obviously haven't experienced WvWvW in GW2. I've experienced battles of close to 100 players in same general area and the flow of battle was enjoyable and smooth. I experienced far less lag in these conflicts than I do just driving around the fleet in SWTOR. ArenaNet has shown epic PvP is possible even while in beta and still optimizing. However, other players indicate the Hero engine has limitations so maybe this isn't possible with SWTOR. Lets hope the engine gets improved because combine SWTOR lore/craft etc.. with GW2 style world PvP and you have something great.

Does anyone know if BW plans to create more epic world PvP content in the future? I have recently experience GW2's WvWvW content and I'm addicted. I love SWTOR PvP but the same old canned battlegrounds over and over are getting old. I know they probably cannot setup a intra-server battles like GW2's WvWvW due to current faction setup etc. but I can envision a planet setup with similar objectives (fortresses, towers, supply links, mercenary mob camps etc.) that pubs and imps could fight over. I know they tried and failed to do this with Ilum but if they mirrored GW2's system of scoring and multiple objectives it could succeed. I also know their are issues with faction imbalances and perhaps that coudl be somewhat alleviated with mercenary camps bonuses.

Yes! Having a blast trying out the different classes and storylines as the game doesn't feel grindy like past MMOs. At roughly 50 cents a day it is entertainment well worth the money. I only wish I had more time to play.

The problem is that many players do not just want Open World PvP fights just for the sake of good PvP fun. Most want rewards/incentives for doing so and therein lies the major challenge. We have already seen certain elements of the playerbase exploit the previous systems like trading kills etc. Implementing Open World PvP areas is easy and it is and has always been available in SWTOR. Implementing rewards based Open World PvP that cannot be exploited is a whole different ballgame. I've seen many complaints but zero viable suggestions for rewards based Open World PvP systems that cannot be exploited. Many say we just want open world fights but apparently that is not what most really want because if all they wanted was the fights than ILUM would be full of players. Edit: In WoW at Tauren Mill was the last time I experienced open world PvP on a largescale just for fun before the BGs/Arena were implemented.

So does this make it official that every class in SWTOR is overpowered and thus the classes must be balanced? Edit: Oh wait a scoundrel/ops spec took the bat shaft already so everyone except that gimped spec is equally overpowered then.

Nice to meet ya! Count me as a lover of Huttball. Finally a warzone where there is more to do than simply kill/take/protect. It incorporates all the usual aspects and adds the additional dimension of ball carrying/passing. It far and away has the most strategical variants of all the warzones.

Arenas and the stupidly OP gear introduced by it is why I left WoW. Worst idea ever in an MMO.

Effort and work is not part of a game for entertainment. The minute they turn PvP into a part-time job you can count me out. Sounds like you want rated warzones to become something akin to a WoW arena system which I despised. The term 'welfare epic' was created by players with too much free time on their hands and wanted to keep their epic gear crutch so they could dominate other players not through skill but through pixels.

The vast majority of servers are fine. There are a few servers with overall population issues. There are a number forum posters that are desperate to make SWTOR\BW look like a failure so they can thump their chest and stroke their epeen and say 'Look at me. I predicted this game was fail'

Same. Getting much better PvP now than in the past. Great change on my server with our community. Feel bad for those servers that have too many pixel obsessive maniacs though. So strange to play a game to focus on acquiring virtual stuff rather than actually playing the game for enjoyment.

Agreed...I hated having to deal with all that extraneous garbage just to be competitive and enjoy the game. The game plays very well without them and thankfully so.

You will never understand because you play MMOs for the fun and experience. These types have a black hole in their soul that must be continually fed new pixels to feel rewarded, accomplished etc. Feel good knowing that you are not infected with this sickness.

This ^ Has nothing to do with SWTOR. In fact, they can probably thank their fiscal wads that SWTOR has been released and it has delivered the following: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575 Yea...see who is at #1 I IMAGINE the expression on your face when you realize just how wrong you are....LOL

For me personally the big push forward was alleviating the grind. I've yet to feel like I'm ever grinding unlike every other MMO since UO. I'm just playing the game and enjoying it. Also for the first time I've actually gotten heavily into crafting since I don't have to sit there and watch a progress bar while twittling my thumbs. Huge advance from my perspective. I'm actually progressing more than a single character to level cap just to experience the different storylines. Never even considered doing that in any other MMO after experiencing the grind.

It has already started out with far more subs than WoW did and has plenty of room to grow and improve like WoW did. The release has been far far more stable in terms of server availability than WoW was at release and did so with massively more content. Is it perfect out of the gate? no ...but to say it has failed because a tiny fraction of the playerbase has been disappointed is just delusional.

This will only be seen mostly by the angry minority. The huge vast majority are in the game having fun with it unless you're like me stuck at work for the moment. Even the most popular threads barely register a fraction of the player base and they will contain many repeat post/views by a single user which means the true number is even less.

That fits my average session about right with longer sessions on the weekend unless I got some other activity going on. Having a blast with this game. I actually already have two toons to L50 and another almost there. In past MMOs I would just get one toon to max cap and PvP and would never consider going through the grind again. With SWTOR it doesn't feel grindy at all and the class and companion storylines have me hooked into trying them all. Exploring the worlds has been fun and the space combat is just icing on the top. Edit: He also makes a great point that these forums have very light traffic in light of the number of players. Even the most popular threads barely register a fraction of the player base and most of those have repeat posts/views by a single user. The huge vast majority of players are in the game and don't bother with the forums and that says a lot about the game.

LOL...common sense...really? Population decrease does not indicate a lack of active subscriptions. Population decrease means people are not logging in as much and this could be for a variety of reasons. It does not mean they have cancelled their subscriptions. If you wish to engage in intelligent discussion at the very least you should demonstrate a tiny bit of common sense.