schwiz Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't understand why these people left WoW to begin with. Glad they are on their way out though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't understand why these people left WoW to begin with. Glad they are on their way out though! I don't play WOW, but from what I gather Bioware is changing the PVP gear and getting rid of stat progression in favor of cosmetic rewards for high valor, which is just like how WOW is isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Buahahahahaha. PvP gear was the worst thing ever put in this game. It's just a crutch for the bads. Bioware have even acknowledged that there is a problem for fresh 50s and they need to resolve it. The gear gate into pvp is terrible yet the OP wants more of it. I think it's too late for this game to recover from this terrible design decision but seeing the QQ is even worse. Gear grinds are short term distractions from problems. Think of the long term health of the game instead of your own personal epeen kiddies. If someone gives you über gear to pwn noobs/players with lives. Those noobs will soon get bored and leave, what good is pvp gear with no one to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why is it so hard to give those that put in the effort to push their characters to that next level a nod for the effort? I did not get my BM in the first month but i did put an effort for to make BM before they capped valor gains in llum and boosted valor gains in the wz's (which btw is now easy mode). I would hope that if you are entering the ranked wz's you wouldnt be undergeared or a fresh 50 because as hard as it is to hear for most of you, until you actually put in the time on your main character your not as good as you think. It drives me nuts to watch the fresh 50's coming in the 50 warzones and still not know what in the hell is going on, standing flat footed, and not knowing how to maximize the use of the resolve bar. My hope is that these ranked wz's give the serious pvp'ers the challenge they are looking for, if not i will continue to destroy these fresh 50's entering in the wz's and i will NOT hold my head in shame for being full BM, I earned the title before it was given, and got the gear before it was handed out. I will continue to adjust my game and be one of the best on the server because i adjust my game to patches and dont expect this game to be like WoW or WAR, I will play this game like SW:TOR. No one is disagreeing that players should get a nod for effort. What people disagree with is the disparity in gear stats. An Olympic sprinter isn't afforded the use of performance enhancing drugs in their next run because they win first place; the sprinter is given a medal in acknowledgment of his/her skill. You aren't stupid. You realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Like I said the whole thread is summed below. I am not sure what you think you are adding. People like progressing their characters in MMO's even in PvP. You are saying they shouldn't progress their characters. I dont get why you think if a character has 2% more HP it becomes gear vs gear. There is a point where you can have (gear or character) progression and not ruin/imbalance the game. I mean, do you believe that every class is really 100% balanced against every other class? Summary f thread to date: Player 1 - I am upset that they are removing progression from PvP Player 2 - PvP is not about gear, if you are good at PvP you don't need great gear Player 1 - I understand, but I want limited progression, better gear that is not a huge gap Player 2 - You stink, you just want to roll fresh 50's Player 1 - No, it's an MMO and progression is a big part of the fun Player 2 - PvE is progression, PvP is about skill, all gear should be equal Has there been one post (49 pages atm) that is not covered in the above? Ie pvers want gear progression, pvpers do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't play WOW, but from what I gather Bioware is changing the PVP gear and getting rid of stat progression in favor of cosmetic rewards for high valor, which is just like how WOW is isn't? "WOW PvP: 95% gear 5% skill..." This is a running joke in WOW's pvp community. Comeon man, don't be naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegwulf Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) No one is disagreeing that players should get a nod for effort. What people disagree with is the disparity in gear stats. An Olympic sprinter isn't afforded the use of performance enhancing drugs in their next run because they win first place; the sprinter is given a medal in acknowledgment of his/her skill. You aren't stupid. You realize this. What i am saying is that if your not geared dont enter the ranked wz's, do your time in the non-ranked zones get your gear then enter with the big dogs. I know what it is like to go up against the geared guys with not, in fact, when i did it it was ALOT worse. being 25-35 and going up against champion 50's makes you either quit the game or get better. I chose the latter. Some people can still be a fresh 50 and fight very well against geared players, others can not. I took my lumps why is it so hard for everyone to get beat on and learn from it instead of qq'ing. btw, pvp gear has never made a bad player good. Edited March 11, 2012 by Cegwulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 "WOW PvP: 95% gear 5% skill..." This is a running joke in WOW's pvp community. Comeon man, don't be naive. I don't play wow, I wouldn't know, but I was under the impression that WOW had all equal endgame gear and the only thing that was any form of progression that you had to work for was your weapon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhaok Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 An Olympic sprinter isn't afforded the use of performance enhancing drugs in their next run because they win first place An Olympic sprinter is also not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. You are comparing apples to oranges here. The comparison is not valid. It is like me saying that volleyball players should get a free kick every time their opponents touch the ball with their hands because that how it is in soccer. You aren't stupid. You realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 What i am saying is that if your not geared dont enter the ranked wz's, do your time in the non-ranked zones get your gear then enter with the big dogs. I know what it is like to go up against the geared guys with not, in fact, when i did it it was ALOT worse. being 25-35 and going up against champion 50's makes you either quit the game or get better. I chose the latter. Some people can still be a fresh 50 and fight very well against geared players, others can not. I took my lumps why is it so hard for everyone to get beat on and learn from it instead of qq'ing. Because casuals don't want to put in the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) An Olympic sprinter is also not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. You are comparing apples to oranges here. The comparison is not valid. It is like me saying that volleyball players should get a free kick every time their opponents touch the ball with their hands because that how it is in soccer. He does grind though Olympic athletes train 5 days a week doing the same thing almost every day. Physical conditioning and muscle memory give them their improvement. Muscle memory also applies in PvP just as much. Adding improved gear would be like giving the best access to steroids, and access to better ones when they win. That comparison you're trying to rip apart was spot on. Your experience and reaction times/muscle memory should give a full time PvPer the edge. Not an extra 50% HP, doubled damage output and 20% defence. Edited March 11, 2012 by Gwal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeymortar Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 An Olympic sprinter is also not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. You are comparing apples to oranges here. The comparison is not valid. It is like me saying that volleyball players should get a free kick every time their opponents touch the ball with their hands because that how it is in soccer. lol grind want a grind go play a Korean mmo it will make you cry having said that I'm not sure but did bw ever say this was gonna be a grind mmo? cause it took anyone all of 1 month to get the highest pvp rewards in the game granted those people didn't sleep or bathe and cheated using valor cheese's but still pretty easy compared to some mmos lol so please just cause your a warhero don't come in here saying ************ casuals ruining our hardcore game* cause you have no idea lol what *hard gaming* really is this game is pretty easy all around don't like it get out we won't miss you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 lol grind want a grind go play a Korean mmo it will make you cry having said that I'm not sure but did bw ever say this was gonna be a grind mmo? cause it took anyone all of 1 month to get the highest pvp rewards in the game granted those people didn't sleep or bathe and cheated using valor cheese's but still pretty easy compared to some mmos lol so please just cause your a warhero don't come in here saying ************ casuals ruining our hardcore game* cause you have no idea lol what *hard gaming* really is this game is pretty easy all around don't like it get out we won't miss you. Bioware stated that there would be "no grind" in the game. They got it right below 50 then left nothing but grind to keep people going. And as a legit 72 hawk eye in L2 I know exactly what you're saying about Korean grinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeymortar Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Bioware stated that there would be "no grind" in the game. They got it right below 50 then left nothing but grind to keep people going. And as a legit 72 hawk eye in L2 I know exactly what you're saying about Korean grinds. Good god why are you still alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 What i am saying is that if your not geared dont enter the ranked wz's, do your time in the non-ranked zones get your gear then enter with the big dogs. I know what it is like to go up against the geared guys with not, in fact, when i did it it was ALOT worse. being 25-35 and going up against champion 50's makes you either quit the game or get better. I chose the latter. Some people can still be a fresh 50 and fight very well against geared players, others can not. I took my lumps why is it so hard for everyone to get beat on and learn from it instead of qq'ing. Well, you should be ecstatic with the upcoming changes. Geared players will be up against other ranked and geared players. You chose to continue pvping because you knew you would eventually have the gear to stand a competitive chance. You chose patience over quitting out of frustration which is admirable. However better gear doesn't and shouldn't equate to a better player. A players only competitive advantage should be their skill and experience. Most competitive sports and games would agree with this sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) An Olympic sprinter is also not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. You are comparing apples to oranges here. The comparison is not valid. It is like me saying that volleyball players should get a free kick every time their opponents touch the ball with their hands because that how it is in soccer. Giving the winning team an advantage regardless of what form of competition, is detrimental to the competition itself. Unless the playing field is even the act of "winning" and "earning" rank is pretty much moot Edited March 11, 2012 by Dafroog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpop Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So OP just wants to faceroll new 50's with his epeen? The challenge and ranking isn't what he looks for in PvP? I would probaly never set foot in a ranked pvp warzone if you had to have a team, and i still think its stupid beyond belive, what is the point in having ranked warzones, if they basicly are just the same as normal warzones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerr Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 only cowards quit right before rateds come out, you heard me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 An Olympic sprinter is also not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. You are comparing apples to oranges here. The comparison is not valid. It is like me saying that volleyball players should get a free kick every time their opponents touch the ball with their hands because that how it is in soccer. Comparing an apple and an orange is completely valid. Your argument however, is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhaok Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 He does grind though Olympic athletes train 5 days a week doing the same thing almost every day. Physical conditioning and muscle memory give them their improvement. Muscle memory also applies in PvP just as much. Adding improved gear would be like giving the best access to steroids, and access to better ones when they win. I repeat. An Olympic athlete is not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. Reread please. That comparison you're trying to rip apart was spot on. Nope. See above for help. lol grind want a grind go play a Korean mmo it will make you cry having said that I'm not sure but did bw ever say this was gonna be a grind mmo? cause it took anyone all of 1 month to get the highest pvp rewards in the game granted those people didn't sleep or bathe and cheated using valor cheese's but still pretty easy compared to some mmos lol so please just cause your a warhero don't come in here saying ************ casuals ruining our hardcore game* cause you have no idea lol what *hard gaming* really is this game is pretty easy all around don't like it get out we won't miss you. First: I have played a Korean MMO that I was crazy about for 2 years. It was not the most grindy game out of other more in that field but don't make assumptions in your arguments like that because they make you look foolish. Second: I did not say casuals were ruining the game. I just pointed out that a comparison that someone made between Olympic athletes and SWTOR pvp did not fit into the scenario that he/she was trying to use it. Third: I feel terrible knowing that if I decide to leave this game you and others (not sure who you are referring to there) will not miss me. Forth: I would like to applaud your English communication skills. You are much better in English as a non native speaker than I am in any other language. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhaok Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Unless the playing field is even the act of "winning" and "earning" rank is pretty much moot The playing field is even. All players in SWTOR have the choice of using the same gear/skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 only cowards quit right before rateds come out, you heard me yeeeehhhh boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I repeat. An Olympic athlete is not playing a grind style MMORPG video game. Reread please. Nope. See above for help. First: I have played a Korean MMO that I was crazy about for 2 years. It was not the most grindy game out of other more in that field but don't make assumptions in your arguments like that because they make you look foolish. Second: I did not say casuals were ruining the game. I just pointed out that a comparison that someone made between Olympic athletes and SWTOR pvp did not fit into the scenario that he/she was trying to use it. Third: I feel terrible knowing that if I decide to leave this game you and others (not sure who you are referring to there) will not miss me. Forth: I would like to applaud your English communication skills. You are much better in English as a non native speaker than I am in any other language. Congratulations. You're confusing PvE grind with PvP. In order to maintain competitiveness PvP cannot and should not be a grind. The nature of a MMO is NOT a grind; just because you are used to MMOs being an endless grind does not mean all MMOs must follow that same formula. Developers of SWTOR have stated that they do not want their game to be a grind. That is why your argument is not valid. Would you like me to explain why apples and oranges can be compared? Edited March 11, 2012 by portichae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Aww dammit Edited March 11, 2012 by Gwal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhaok Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Your confusing PvE grind with PvP. In order to maintain competitiveness PvP cannot and should not be a grind. The nature of a MMO is NOT a grind; just because you are used to MMOs being an endless grind does not mean all MMOs must follow that same formula. Developers of SWTOR have stated that they do not want their game to be a grind. That is why your argument is not valid. - I am not confusing PvE grind with PvP. The way this game was set up was that in order to be able to use some of the higher level items in pvp you must first be able to reach a stated number of valor. This was accomplished though playing in Player vs. Player matches. Depending on the definition of "grind". One must play many pvp matches in order to have access to top pvp gear. This was a PvP grind which is not original to SWTOR. - I agree with you. The nature of a MMO is not a grind. The way SWTOR was set up and the way people have been playing it thus far has been a grind style of sorts. (Yes I know, not like some Korean grind MMO some would like to argue this statement against.) - Which is why which argument is invalid? That I do not agree that the comparison between an Olympic athlete and the style of SWTOR pvp was correct? I still believe this argument to be applicable to the situation. Just because one game has a set of rules does not mean another game should have to use those same rules. They are two different games. Would you like me to explain why apples and oranges can be compared? I have no doubt that you can accurately compare apples and oranges. The phrased I used was a popular figure of speech which I'm sure you are familiar. I was stating in the comparison the poster was trying to justify his opinion by stating two different things were the same, which they were not. Edited March 11, 2012 by Nhaok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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