Empire & Republic: Mirrors of each other? I don't think so... *Possible Spoilers*

[PostalTwinkie]

After taking a few characters to level 50 on the Empire side of things I decided to roll a Republic character. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that game play for the two sides was supposed to be a mirror. At least in terms of general game mechanics and such.

 

I absolutely without a doubt believe that Republic has to travel far further on foot between quests and quest providers than Empire. The amount of wasted time going from point A to point B is over the top. Even more so than Empire I have noticed a ton of back tracking, especially on the home world.

 

One case in point is the very end of the Consular quest on Coruscant. After using the "cure" on Master Y you are summoned to the council chamber. The chamber is about a 10 mile walk, you have a 2 minute conversation which ends in them telling you to go back to Master Y! When you do get back she pretty much goes "Thanks again! See ya!".

 

What the hell?

 

Korriban didn't have this issue, damn near every quest fell in line with one another and slowly moved you along. Very little back tracking compared to Coruscant, and major quest points where extremely close to their provider.

 

Republic is getting shafted!

Edited March 10, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[OddballEasyEight]

I wouldnt agree... i feel theres an equal amount of traveling on both sides.

It migth be dependant on your class tho, but having played both bounty hunter and smuggler to the high 30's i dont feel there is much difference in time spent traveling.

 

Although, korriband does feel much smaller than the other starter planets, but i think thats because it was one of the first planets they made (IIRC).

 

personally, in order of size "feeling", here is my view on the starter planets (smallest first):

Korriban

ord mantell

tyhton

hutta

dromund kaas

coruscant.

 

as you can see, the order is actually: imp, rep, rep, imp, imp, rep in order of size (percieved), but i do believe its more or less imaginary, because it rarely takes me longer to finish one planet over the others...

[Brickabrack]

Coruscant isn't Korribans mirror, Tython is. Coruscants mirror is Dromand Kaas. You're comparing the Empire starting world with the Republic capital.

[LasherC]

It's supposed to be a mirror in terms of CLASSES. Questing areas are supposed to be similar, yes, but not a mirror. Not as far as I know.

[Staavis_SC]

After taking a few characters to level 50 on the Empire side of things I decided to roll a Republic character. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that game play for the two sides was supposed to be a mirror. At least in terms of general game mechanics and such.

 

I absolutely without a doubt believe that Republic has to travel far further on foot between quests and quest providers than Empire. The amount of wasted time going from point A to point B is over the top. Even more so than Empire I have noticed a ton of back tracking, especially on the home world.

 

One case in point is the very end of the Consular quest on Coruscant. After using the "cure" on Master Y you are summoned to the council chamber. The chamber is about a 10 mile walk, you have a 2 minute conversation which ends in them telling you to go back to Master Y! When you do get back she pretty much goes "Thanks again! See ya!".

 

What the hell?

 

Korriban didn't have this issue, damn near every quest fell in line with one another and slowly moved you along. Very little back tracking compared to Coruscant, and major quest points where extremely close to their provider.

 

Republic is getting shafted!

 

That's not all...

 

Last night, I got my Jedi Knight to Level 37 and picked up my next companion. Who happens to be a pocket healer. After trying him out, it was like night and day, the MAJOR difference it makes in playing a Jedi Knight. You go from nearly dying against every group, to being nearly unstoppable. The immediate question I got in my head was:

 

Why don't we get the healer sooner?

 

Then I came to the realization that in at least 3 cases, the Empire actually has a major advantage (in leveling) over the Republic, in terms of "pocket healers".

 

Jedi Knight vs. Sith Warrior

- Jedi Knight gets pocket healer around Level 37 +/-

- Sith Warrior gets pocket healer around Level 20 +/-

 

Trooper vs. Bounty Hunter

- Trooper gets pocket healer around Level 20 +/-

- Bounty Hunter gets pocket healer around Level 9 +/-

 

Smuggler vs. Operative

- Smuggler gets pocket healer around Level 41 +/-

- Operative gets pocket healer around Level 37 +/-

 

3 mirrored classes, and yet, in 2 cases the Empire gets their "ez-mode" pocket healer WELL before the Republic, and in 1 case, SLIGHTLY before the Republic.

 

Tell me Empire is not favored. There has been all kinds of proof posted on these forums from Day 1. Tell me it's not true. If you do, I'll call you a liar.

[Urael]

After taking a few characters to level 50 on the Empire side of things I decided to roll a Republic character. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that game play for the two sides was supposed to be a mirror. At least in terms of general game mechanics and such.

 

I absolutely without a doubt believe that Republic has to travel far further on foot between quests and quest providers than Empire. The amount of wasted time going from point A to point B is over the top. Even more so than Empire I have noticed a ton of back tracking, especially on the home world.

 

One case in point is the very end of the Consular quest on Coruscant. After using the "cure" on Master Y you are summoned to the council chamber. The chamber is about a 10 mile walk, you have a 2 minute conversation which ends in them telling you to go back to Master Y! When you do get back she pretty much goes "Thanks again! See ya!".

 

What the hell?

 

Korriban didn't have this issue, damn near every quest fell in line with one another and slowly moved you along. Very little back tracking compared to Coruscant, and major quest points where extremely close to their provider.

 

Republic is getting shafted!

 

This post has nothing to do with what BW claims as a mirror. They only claim mirror in abilites.

 

As far as the rest ... ok I agree with you Rebublic sucks in so many ways from story to distance traveled to pathing to crappy looking gear etc. BUT that said why did you have to make YET ANOTHER POST on how BW screwed over the Republic. We all know the empire players just look like masocists when the replic players really are masocists.

 

Edited May 2, 2012 by Urael

[flyersfan]

One case in point is the very end of the Consular quest on Coruscant. After using the "cure" on Master Y you are summoned to the council chamber. The chamber is about a 10 mile walk, you have a 2 minute conversation which ends in them telling you to go back to Master Y! When you do get back she pretty much goes "Thanks again! See ya!".

 

What the hell?

 

Korriban didn't have this issue, damn near every quest fell in line with one another and slowly moved you along. Very little back tracking compared to Coruscant, and major quest points where extremely close to their provider.

 

Yeah, but Korriban is ugly, no fun, and filled with Sith. Coruscant, however, is a terrible place and I hope it burns. The Trooper has the worst run around after Chapter Two ends. Garza needs to get with the times and use a holocommunicator.

[JerokTalram]

While Doc does make a difference, it shouldn't be as much as your suggesting. I can run dailies with Doc or Kira fine. In fact, running with Kira is faster because she does lots of damage. Granted the game is easier with Doc and I don't die as much when fighting Elites and Champions. I even fought 4 Strongs at level with Doc. But if Kira is properly geared and used, you can play with her instead still kill the Bosses. Edited May 2, 2012 by JerokTalram

[Staavis_SC]

Yeah, but Korriban is ugly, no fun, and filled with Sith. Coruscant, however, is a terrible place and I hope it burns. The Trooper has the worst run around after Chapter Two ends. Garza needs to get with the times and use a holocommunicator.

 

This just reminded me of another very annoying inequity early on, before speeders.

 

Spaceport runs on Courscant vs Dromund Kaas.

 

The spaceport on Dromund Kaas is standard size, and doesn't take long to run through.

 

The spaceport on Courscant is MASSIVE. We're talking size of Texas massive, and takes FOREVER to run through.

 

What is up with that?

[flyersfan]

This just reminded me of another very annoying inequity early on, before speeders.

 

Spaceport runs on Courscant vs Dromund Kaas.

 

The spaceport on Dromund Kaas is standard size, and doesn't take long to run through.

 

The spaceport on Courscant is MASSIVE. We're talking size of Texas massive, and takes FOREVER to run through.

 

What is up with that?

 

Unlike the majority of the game, there is actually a difference. The bigger spaceport is also filled with other sections that are used for story missions. It makes sense that it's bigger. I'm sorry it takes you an extra minute to run through it. It probably takes the same amount of time to run from the Coruscant spaceport as run through the Dromund Kaas spaceport and take the taxi into Kaas City.

 

There's a big open space between the spaceport and the city. What's up with that? Why aren't things identical?! *false rage*

[VyperStars]

Have you PvPed against Republic before? When 6 out of 8 are healers I really don't think Republic need their heal companions early...

 

On the other hand... Imperials are all just Meatheads and require something to sustain them...

 

FYI 50 Sage and 50 Assassin.... I noticed you didn't mention Sage/Inquisitor... because that did not suit your "pocket healer" argument.

[JerokTalram]

This just reminded me of another very annoying inequity early on, before speeders.

 

Spaceport runs on Courscant vs Dromund Kaas.

 

The spaceport on Dromund Kaas is standard size, and doesn't take long to run through.

 

The spaceport on Courscant is MASSIVE. We're talking size of Texas massive, and takes FOREVER to run through.

 

What is up with that?

 

Probably because it takes more time to get from the Citadel to the Drumand Kaas Starport than it does from Senate Tower to the Coruscant Starport so to even the time out they made the Coruscant Starport bigger.

[Staavis_SC]

While Doc does make a difference, it shouldn't be as much as your suggesting. I can run dailies with Doc or Kira fine. In fact, running with Kira is faster because she does lots of damage. Granted the game is easier with Doc and I don't die as much when fighting Elites and Champions. I even fought 4 Strongs at level with Doc. But if Kira is properly geared and used, you can play with her instead still kill the Bosses.

 

I don't know, it feels like when you are dragging Kira around, you end up taking way longer, because you stop to heal ALL the time, whereas with Doc, I stopped to heal maybe 1-3 times in the space of an hour, and was killing stuff nearly as quickly as I did with Kira.

 

Having played all the classes to at least 25 before I rerolled on my current server, it feels like the Jedi Knight was the most painful to level, and I would attribute this to the lack of healing.

 

Of course, each player is different, and for some, Kira is probably the ideal companion for them. Me, I felt she didn't contribute nearly as much as some other companions I had, and doesn't hold a candle to Doc's usefulness. In a way, I almost feel like the devs know that, and incorporated it into Doc's personality, considering the taunting and cheap shots he sends T-7 and Kira via your private conversations with him.

[Jinxblog]

There's a huge difference between Dromund Kaas and Coruscant. I've leveled 8 characters through these planets and I DREAD doing Coruscant. With the maze like maps and mobs, it's ridiculous.

[VanorDM]

I don't know, it feels like when you are dragging Kira around, you end up taking way longer.

 

Depends on what spec you are. I leveled my Guardian defense spec from the time I got her until 50 and never used Doc, and never needed Doc.

[Staavis_SC]

Have you PvPed against Republic before? When 6 out of 8 are healers I really don't think Republic need their heal companions early...

 

On the other hand... Imperials are all just Meatheads and require something to sustain them...

 

FYI 50 Sage and 50 Assassin.... I noticed you didn't mention Sage/Inquisitor... because that did not suit your "pocket healer" argument.

 

I didn't mention the Consular / Inquisitor because pocket healers have far less impact on those 2 classes. Both the Consular and Inquisitor can heal, regardless of AC. Sage / Sorc get outright heals, while the Shadow / Assassin can heal themselves, on the fly, in-combat, based on the stance and spec tree they use.

 

In the case of the Consular / Inquisitor, Consulars do receive their pocket healer first (Nar Shaddaa) vs the Inquisitor (Hoth) but as I pointed out, pocket healers have reduced usefulness for a class that has heals in both ACs.

 

You can not deny however, that in the 3 other classes, Empire is favored in when they receive their pocket healers, and in those 3 classes, pocket healers play a much more important role.

[VanorDM]

and in those 3 classes, pocket healers play a much more important role.

 

I would disagree with that. My Guardian didn't need a pocket healer all the way up to 50 and I can do the dailies with Kira if I want.

 

My Commando also so far has had little need of a pocket healer, and he's very nearly to the point of getting one.

[Staavis_SC]

Depends on what spec you are. I leveled my Guardian defense spec from the time I got her until 50 and never used Doc, and never needed Doc.

 

That would make sense. When leveling in Defense spec, Kira is probably more valuable.

 

However, if you level Vigilance (as I did) or Focus, it's nearly nightmare mode from about Level 25 to when you get Doc.

 

On Tatooine, Alderaan and Balmorra, I have never died so much, with any other class, as I did with my Jedi Knight. Heck, when I first landed on Balmorra (Bugtown) I died twice in the span of about 5 minutes.

 

Maybe I'm just a bad player, but to suddenly go from nearly dying all the time, to not even coming close to dying (after getting Doc) sorta shows how valuable Doc is, at least to Vigilance and Focus specs.

[Acherom]

I didn't mention the Consular / Inquisitor because pocket healers have far less impact on those 2 classes. Both the Consular and Inquisitor can heal, regardless of AC. Sage / Sorc get outright heals, while the Shadow / Assassin can heal themselves, on the fly, in-combat, based on the stance and spec tree they use.

 

In the case of the Consular / Inquisitor, Consulars do receive their pocket healer first (Nar Shaddaa) vs the Inquisitor (Hoth) but as I pointed out, pocket healers have reduced usefulness for a class that has heals in both ACs.

 

You can not deny however, that in the 3 other classes, Empire is favored in when they receive their pocket healers, and in those 3 classes, pocket healers play a much more important role.

 

Using that argument: I'd say the only class where it matters is the Knight / Warrior. As you say one of the ACs can heal; so can Commandos / Merc, and Operatives / Scoundrels.

 

Unless you meant to count Dark Charge / Combat Technique; which you can't actually switch to 'on the fly' to gain any significant healing from. (a couple of percent, at best, on a proc; that costs your entire resource pool to shift to)

 

Leveling both a Sage and a Sorc; the difference between getting your healer at ~23 and ~44 are massive.

(The issue I have with this particular match up is more in quality of story writing more then anything; I did not feel engaged in the Sage story at all, at any time of playing the class.)

[amantheil]

Both Dromund Kaas and Coruscant are annoying, just in different ways.

 

On Dromund Kaas, to get from the spaceport to Kaas city, you have to either go through a heroic area, or take a long walk around. And the taxis don't connect for some reason.

 

Coruscant however is worse. I don't think it's bias, I just think Coruscant was designed horribly.

 

2) Coruscant: you have the massive spaceport. And the incredibly long walk to the spaceport. And then the incredibly long walks through the Senate Tower to talk to the mission-givers.

 

Many cities will have taxi points spread around a city if they are far apart from each other. Not Corsuscant. They put the taxi halfway between the spaceport and the Senate tower, so BOTH places are painful to get too. And then there's the market/vendor area on Coruscant. If you're new and don't know where to look, good luck finding it. You can open your map and have it display vendors or trainers - but since they're on a level below you, they don't show up!

 

Imperial Agents get summoned to DK a lot to speak to Keeper or some Sith Lord, but it's not anywhere near as annoying as it is for Troopers to get summoned to Coruscant to speak to General Garza. The DK taxi not connecting is a minor inconvenience compared to the fact that there's no taxi at all in Coruscant to get from the spaceport to the Senate Tower. And of course, Keeper's awesome while General Garza is just an annoying tool.

 

Probably because it takes more time to get from the Citadel to the Drumand Kaas Starport than it does from Senate Tower to the Coruscant Starport so to even the time out they made the Coruscant Starport bigger.

 

I dunno. It certainly *feels" longer to get to the Senate Tower vs. the Citadel, perhaps because you can use a taxi most of the way for the Citadel.

Edited May 2, 2012 by amantheil

[VanorDM]

However, if you level Vigilance (as I did) or Focus

 

It's pretty well known on the JK class boards that if you go with one of the DPS spec's you're going to be better off with Doc. IME, DPS always does better with Healer, healer does best with tank and tank does best with DPS.

[Tristal]

Have you PvPed against Republic before? When 6 out of 8 are healers I really don't think Republic need their heal companions early...

 

On the other hand... Imperials are all just Meatheads and require something to sustain them...

 

FYI 50 Sage and 50 Assassin.... I noticed you didn't mention Sage/Inquisitor... because that did not suit your "pocket healer" argument.

 

You can't use your companions in PVP (except of course world PVP) so that argument doesn't really mean anything... All it suggests is a personal choice, they aren't forced to become healers but there isn't anything they can do to get their healing companions earlier.

[Tikigit]

I have actually found the opposite to be true when comparing my Jedi Knight to my Imperial Agent.

 

My Jedi Knight sometimes has to go back to speak to the Jedi Council, but that's about the extent of the back tracking.

 

My Imperial Agent however has had to go all over the place, sometimes to Korriban, sometimes to imperial fleet, other times to Dromund, then times going back to Nar shadda....

 

 

Same in fact for the missions/quests, with the exception of quesh my knight has had a pretty straight path from one side of the planet to the other.

 

When playing on my Imperial agent (Stopped playing them when I got them to quesh), I was doing a lot of back and forth between two points some distance apart on the map.

 

 

So perhaps it's less of a republic/imperial factor, and more a class story layout issue?

[Staavis_SC]

Using that argument: I'd say the only class where it matters is the Knight / Warrior.

 

-snip-

Leveling both a Sage and a Sorc; the difference between getting your healer at ~23 and ~44 are massive.

 

I would agree that for Knight / Warrior, this is more of an issue than Trooper / BH or Smuggler / Op. However, I would disagree (to an extent) about the Sage / Sorc. While having a pocket healer would be convient, especially while leveling a damage spec, Sage / Sorc do have access to the base AC heals which they can use in a pinch. Sure, they can't heal as well if they aren't spec'd into it, but, they can heal.

 

However, I would agree on the main point from both your perspective and mine, and the main point is that on some of these classes that have no access to heals or with a DPS focus, it would be alot better to get the pocket healers earlier on in the leveling process, AND, there shouldn't be such a gap between when Empire classes and Republic classes receive those pocket healers, respectively.

[ShaneW]

I felt leveling a character on the Empire side was easier and faster than my Republic character. However, whoever thought it was a good idea that the speeders inside Dromund Kaas shouldn't be connected with those outside needs to be slapped.

 

Coruscant was hands down what I liked least on my Republic character. Walking back and forth across it 500 times made me want to off myself. It's simply TOO DAMN BIG.