Please BW don't Kill PVP Gear Progression!

[Antipathize]

Bioware won't kill gear progression for pvp

 

1) it saves them money on developing more content for pvp.

 

2) an equal playing field would highlight more class balance problems.

 

3) gear progression is addictive and will keep people playing longer since the actual mechanics are buggy/weak and there is no other end game other than grinding for the next tier. It buys them time to develop more pve stuff.

 

4) they are "giving away" Champ gear to likely pave the way for the next tier.

 

They should make pve gear available for wz comms to be fair though

[Monoth]

This struck home to me, I was in CAL-m for 1.6 and source. But it's apples and oranges, that is an FPS based on reflex and hand eye cordination. This is an MMO which is about carrot on a stick, use of more tactics, and progression.

 

And even further on, most of today's FPS's have progression, you have to grind levels to get the best guns and perks in COD and BF.

 

Casuals crying on here for level playing field out the gate with high valor level 50's is like someone crying on the BF forums about someone pwning them with a gun you don't unlock until level 50. If we were comparing apples and oranges of course...

 

The one thing all PvP games have in common is the heavy use of tactics to win BUT because of the unbalanced gear, tactics get thrown out the window in most MMO's, pvp boils down to who has the best gear wins. To me this is no fun and keeps a lot of people away from pvp.

 

The "hardcore" group doesn't even want separate que's for pugs vs premades, they are so desperate for easy kills and are so scared of competition it's rather sad.

[Dego_Locc]

Bioware won't kill gear progression for pvp

 

1) it saves them money on developing more content for pvp.

 

2) an equal playing field would highlight more class balance problems.

 

3) gear progression is addictive and will keep people playing longer since the actual mechanics are buggy/weak and there is no other end game other than grinding for the next tier. It buys them time to develop more pve stuff.

 

4) they are "giving away" Champ gear to likely pave the way for the next tier.

 

They should make pve gear available for wz comms to be fair though

 

1. Yes, but they are killing it, haven't you heard?

 

2. Yes, and they are going to do it anyway.

 

3. Yes, but they are taking it away and making rewards all cosmetic.

 

4. The next gear will make BM obsolete, and ALL can obtain it regardless of valor rank.

[Taerrik]

PvP is NOT PvE, there is no progression. You win or you lose. Granted there needs to be leaderboards and a guild ladder still

 

PvP is its own reward.

 

 

Putting a gear progression instead of a ladder progression in pvp.

 

 

Rated WZs are going a long way to solving a lot of the issues in pvp. IN premades you wont have the issues of quitters, and winning will be its reward along with the rating gain. In pugs if the rated option still works for that, people will be less likely to just farm 4 medals and afk or just outright leave because it will tank thier own personall rating.

 

With the current setup, people just farm gear because that is the only reward. No penalty for losing/afking, only a penalty for quitting. everyone is a winner, and everyone gets gear. Thats pretty lame.

[Monoth]

Bioware won't kill gear progression for pvp

 

1) it saves them money on developing more content for pvp.

 

2) an equal playing field would highlight more class balance problems.

 

3) gear progression is addictive and will keep people playing longer since the actual mechanics are buggy/weak and there is no other end game other than grinding for the next tier. It buys them time to develop more pve stuff.

 

4) they are "giving away" Champ gear to likely pave the way for the next tier.

 

They should make pve gear available for wz comms to be fair though

 

1) doubt it, pvp'ers are a strange bunch soon as they find a map they like they will play it to death and ignore even new maps.

 

2) this is a lame argument, so instead of finding the issues with class balance lets hide it by giving people ubber gear instead and blame it all on the gear? lol

 

3) most people quit pvp because their constantly being slaughter by those with better gear,. There's a reason why people think lvl 10-49 pvp is more fun then the lvl 50 bracket pvp is.

 

4) where in the 1.2 notes does it say there giving away champion gear?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Monoth

[Antipathize]

The loss of subs will bring it all back in 1.21, just wait.

 

I said "giving" because you can buy it for credits without ever having to sit in a warzone.

 

Personally I don't care, I think pvp gear progression is just stupid, and cosmetic rewards are a good idea, but from a business standpoint it seems like listening to the vocal minority trumphs making money.

[unixbomber]

They should have added a lot of additional content to pvp (warzones, ilum revamps, etc) before taking away the idea of working towards something. If it's all about skill, etc so be it but with nothing to work towards the three (soon four) warzones are going to feel extremely boring for a lot of players very quickly. Guild Wars 2 will have weekly world vs world fights and with enough content otherwise they can keep people entertained and playing without focusing on gear, etc. SWTOR is severely lacking in content when it comes to pvp, I'm honestly surprised Gabe Amatangelo still has a job.

[Rtwozero]

Why not just create a barebones bracket for all the 'skilled' players. They can compete on AC base stats only with an appropriate buff to allow all levels to use lv50 skills. The ranked pvp system can then cater for the dedicated pvpers. For others who don't have time to pvp or wish to dabble they can queue barebones for some fun. This should also apply to pve so that players can enter operations with the same appropriate buff to allow lv50 abilities from any level.

 

Having said this I believe taking progression out of an mmo is stupid. The difference in pvp gear tiers atm is very small and the gear itself can be obtain in a short timeframe. A slight imbalance may be present due to illum exploits but even this is minimal as since 1.1.5 valor is stupid easy to get from warzones now. When 1.2 hits the system should be a valor bracket system and be more refined to allow players to progress through these tiers in their own brackets. I don't see how taking out progression is going change anything. People will still rage quit and throw tantrums when they get beaten in pvp and insist that it's not fair no matter what system is implemented, this is the way pvp is. The only thing that I really agree with is the rated warzones should not provide a separate or higher tier of gear. They should be purely cosmetic valorific titles and gear as to not create a vast imbalance in gear between the top and bottom tiers. Other than that the upcoming system in 1.2 should allow all the 'skilled' players to progress through the lower tiers without ever having to face someone who has pvped exclusively from release.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Rtwozero

[Humankeg]

Part of MMO's is character progression.

 

Part of character progression is gearing.

 

Gearing is fun and should not be removed.

 

Ever give yoruself every cheat in a game, start playing through it, and get bored half the death? The rewards you get is part of the joy of that game, and the same with SWTOR.

[pogmahone]

Part of MMO's is character progression.

 

Part of character progression is gearing.

 

Gearing is fun and should not be removed.

 

Ever give yoruself every cheat in a game, start playing through it, and get bored half the death? The rewards you get is part of the joy of that game, and the same with SWTOR.

 

This.

[lectotrans]

how are they taking progression out? there is still pvp gear, post 1.2 you will be competing for: ratings, titles, gearstyles, mounts etc. how is that not progression?

 

you still have to work for the pvp gear, you still have to work for the ratings, you still have to work to acquire everything else that will be available through pvping.

 

i see a lot of QQ and unsubstantiated bullcrap, like "welfare gear" or "taking progression away" this is clearly not the case.

[lectotrans]

They should have added a lot of additional content to pvp (warzones, ilum revamps, etc) before taking away the idea of working towards something. If it's all about skill, etc so be it but with nothing to work towards the three (soon four) warzones are going to feel extremely boring for a lot of players very quickly. Guild Wars 2 will have weekly world vs world fights and with enough content otherwise they can keep people entertained and playing without focusing on gear, etc. SWTOR is severely lacking in content when it comes to pvp, I'm honestly surprised Gabe Amatangelo still has a job.

 

bold is my emphasis.

 

absolute lies. hyperbole if you prefer.

 

so they're just going to hand out titles,ranking,gear etc the moment you join a warzone post 1.2 update? really? please link this factual information for us.

 

the fact is that is not how it is going to work, you know very well.

[blackdots]

Those in favor of gear progression argue that, without such gear progression, people will get bored and quit. Of course, games like Warhammer Online and many others have demonstrated the real danger with gear progression: the never ending carrot eventually becomes out of the reach of new players, forcing them to endure months (or worse) of being absolutely steam-rolled in end game pvp before they even have a prayer of competing on anything resembling an even playing field. Hence, with the latter scenario, players quit before they even get to end game.

 

So here is Bioware's choice: either (a) keep the people happy who want gear progression by trying to appease them with ever-new carrots, while running the risk of eventually getting caught in a Warhammer Online style debacle; (b) keep going in the direction in which they are moving now by making pvp about skill rather than gear, with rewards coming from rankings, statistics, team versus team competition and pure enjoyment of the game.

 

It seems to me that (b) would be the more sustainable and respectable business model.

[Leverage]

There is still gear progression. You don't get a full set of War Hero gear mailed to you on the first day of 1.2.

 

Bottom line most good PVPers will queue as groups with very good gear shooting up the ladder while fresh 50s or bad players will queue solo, and be in the morass while getting gear much slower.

 

If you grinded to War Hero before 1.2 you reaped the benefits of having a wider gear gap. Now that gap is closing. If you're not bad why does it matter?

[Vaipyr]

like listening to the vocal minority

 

You do know that these whining "hardcore" PvP'ers ARE the vocal MINORITY right?

The majority are the hated so called "casuals" and "carebears" that they despise so much. It's not even a close margin either.

[xHurogx]

Guess what, SWTOR wasn't like this when I bought it. I knew what I was getting when I paid for the game, and this wasn't it.

 

Never was it even hinted at that they'd be making DRASTIC knee jerk reactions to all the WONG ISSUES. WHERE WAS THE VALOR ROLLBACK AFTER THE ILUM DEBACLE?

 

so talk with your wallet and leave.

[Aleksiel]

MMO pvp was never based on gear progression UNTIL wow and eq2. Before that the idea just seemed asinine and it still does to a lot of people.

 

That's a ridiculous statement. Before pvp gear was implemented the Raiders/Dungeon Crawlers destroyed everyone in PvP. They had access to the best gear in the game. That was the whole reason a PVP stat was implemented in the first place. Vanilla WoW, EQ, DAoC, all the true pvpers did was farm to get gear to own everyone. Then people cried on the forums, like they are now, to separate the stats, so people who only PVP'd wouldn't get crushed by the raiders/dungeon crawlers

Edited March 11, 2012 by Aleksiel

[Russkiier]

Why do people want a statistical gear advantage in PvP?

I can understand how that would be appealing from a selfish point of view, but think about how a gear differential will make PvP less skill based and more gear based, in my opinion that is a bad idea

[Dego_Locc]

That's a ridiculous statement. Before pvp gear was implemented the Raiders/Dungeon Crawlers destroyed everyone in PvP. They had access to the best gear in the game. That was the whole reason a PVP stat was implemented in the first place. Vanilla WoW, EQ, DAoC, all the true pvpers did was farm to get gear to own everyone. Then people cried on the forums, like they are now, to separate the stats, so people who only PVP'd wouldn't get crushed by the raiders/dungeon crawlers

Pretty much.

[Dego_Locc]

Why do people want a statistical gear advantage in PvP?

I can understand how that would be appealing from a selfish point of view, but think about how a gear differential will make PvP less skill based and more gear based, in my opinion that is a bad idea

 

A necessary evil to keep end game progression alive so PVPers keep paying the subscripion ever other month.

[Russkiier]

A necessary evil to keep end game progression alive so PVPers keep paying the subscripion ever other month.

 

I understand wanting to get different looking gear/titles, but IMO a statsitical advantage for PvP would make it difficult for people to break into BM or War Hero gear

[Culdor]

I think the real problem is that the idea of PvPing for the sake of PvPing is all fine when the PvP is dynamic, fun and interesting every time you go to PvP. Is SWTOR really there at this point in time with its 3, soon to be 4, warzones and the failness that is ilum?

 

Gear progression gives folks something to work for while there is so little actual PvP content. Adding one warzone and ranked play in my opinion is not enough content to warrant removing gear progression.

[fadingdimension]

Bioware said they are adding in cosmetic rewards for rated warzones like different colored armor. This gives you something to work for and set you apart. Edited March 12, 2012 by fadingdimension

[Vaipyr]

Bioware said they are adding in cosmetic rewards for rated warzones like different colored armor. This gives you something to work for and set you apart.

 

Exactly. It's still a carrot to chase, and it still gives you easily identifiable bragging rights and epeen stroking.

[RobNightfall]

This is a game. If playing the game is work, you're doing it wrong. All the "effort" you put into this game was ridiculous. If it took an effort for you to play, you should have stopped and left. Games are fun, work is for money. Try and remember this, it will make adulthood easier.