I 100% agree with you...however BW is all but giving away top end pvp gear in 1.2, so in all fairness they should all but give away top end pve gear as well. What makes somebody else's $15 subscription more important than mine?

Totally agree, except now people don't have to play the game and gear up for pvp, so why should pve be any different?

Let them put out a patch where hardcore pve'ers don't have better gear. Hardcore pve'ers "OMG how can I raidz now!?!?!" See how it works both ways. Take away pve gear progression and just make raiding entirely based on skill, cause if your not raiding just for fun then your doing it wrong. See how much sense your logic makes?

^^this....why can people not fathom that pvp & pve are seperate systems and since launch we were told that we could progress through the game using the pvp system. Why are pvp'ers always treated as second class citizens? If these changes occur I will post daily on the hm/ops forums until I get rakata gear made available for credits. If people don't have to put their time in to pvp competitively end game then I shouldn't have to put my time in to run end game pve content.

^^Exactly...Just like people have to put time in WZ's to get pvp gear....oh wait nvm;)

Then we have to do away with different classes as well. To make it solely based on skill and team work every player would require the exact same ability. Your arguing that we should have an fps pvp system in a mmorpg. There are many ways to be competitive quickly pvp (especially in the current patch). Get in premades, support other players in the warzone, do some pvp and save your tokens up then buy gear, do your now easy Ilum dailies. I'm really beginning to think that most of the people whom are complaining about the current pvp system have not taken part in it. It really is not that difficult to become competitive in level 50 pvp. People have no right to expect to hit 50 and all of sudden be able to walk into a match and 1v1 a guy who has been working for gear & improving his skill at level 50 for a long period of time. I do not expect to enter a HM and solo it, so I guess BW should give me handouts till I can. That's absurb to even think that way. Here is an excellent tip to help fresh 50's in pvp. Support your teamates!!!!!!! You don't have to run about 2 shooting people to make a difference in pvp, you can throw taunts, heals, distract the opposition, stun folks, annoy healers, knock people off ledges, guard players, slow defenders...it's not all pew pew pew. Doing these things wins matches regardless of gear. Even if you have full BM your not going to force jump into a group of 7 people and clean house, I hate to ruin some of your fantasies but it's just not likely you'll survive.

This is the best argument in reference to the upcoming 1.2 patch. What gives pve'ers the right to have top pvp gear given to them??????????? I'll be standing in line for my credit bought Rakata gear in 1.3 hoepfully

Different colors is not gear progression. A small bonus just for pvp and a different look would suit most people just fine. How about the abililty to continue to play this game solely through pvp? Eventually pve gear will progress past the soon to be free pvp gear, so what then? I won't be able to enter an unranked match without being facerolled by a bunch of raiders, guess I'll come here and qq till I get BW to place their gear in a vendor for credits. If they want to make ranked matches then please by all means institute the everyone has the same gear while in those matches so folks don't get rolled purely due to gear....(they should be prepared to be rolled because of class balance, better skill, better electronics, or whatever excuse will come down from folks) They need to leave a system for people to have the ability to progress through the game while solely playing pvp....I say this because when swtor came out it was feasible to level, gear & progress through only pvp (once you hit lvl 10 anyways).

I'm not sure how you interpreted my statements as I don't like fighting other people but I do. So what happens when they increase the level cap? Will I be forced to pve to get new gear since it won't progress any more through pvp? Using your logic then there should only be 1 class for us to choose to play in pvp, that way it is 100% skill based. Oh and we should only be able to play swtor on 1 specific computer/keyboard/mouse/isp as well as that could give slight advantages to people. You're wanting a fps style pvp in an mmorpg, I don't agree with that and obviously we have differing opinions on the subject. I would reiterate that pvp and pve are 2 seperate systems. Some change to the pvp is fine and probably needed. Make different brackets for valor rank, make premades fight premades, do something, but don't just hand out what folks have invested good amount's of time into because some people don't like being rolled. Teamwork is far greater in pvp than gear ever will be, unless the gear difference gets to the extreme of one shooting people at will from across the map. And please before anyone posts the far extreme it is very very very highly unlikely that a team of fresh 50's could compete with a team of BM's, but it doesnt take long to get cent gear and that put's you into competition in the 50's bracket. I think I will go try to solo a HM later then complain here and see if I can get BW to hand me some pve gear and good teamates to down it.

Please folks can we get away from the "hardcore vs casual" or "skill vs gear" stuff here. I am not a hardcore gamer, I play more than "casual" but I work-family-social-RL outside of this game. However nearly all my time in game is spent pvp'ing. I guess I should have been more specific about my initial rant. I worked hard to get the pvp gear and rank I curently have, it does not make me a god, does not mean I have ubber skills, does not make me a hardcore pvp'ing basement dweller. It is reward that I have spent lots of time playing, reward for me trying my best to win wz's, reward for being a good team player, reward for being 2-3 shooted when I first hit 50. I really hate it too that people who just enter wz's all day and night long and don't contribute to a win/team/anything can get the same gear too, but just giving that gear to every single person who levels to 50 does not make it ok either. I do agree it should not be based soley on time spent doing whatever you want in wz's. Please pve'ers, can you respect the fact that pvp and pve are 2 entirely different systems and DO NOT have to intermingle. If you want to belong to pvp then work towards that. I totally agree that if I want to participate in endgame pve I need to put my time in getting different gear/skills/whatever to do it, why can some of you not agree to do that to pvp?

^^this. I have heard nothing but bad about it from the pvp community on my server once they were informed of the upcoming changes. Most people that I run with don't even look at these forums. They are too busy pvp'ing. I am taking away from my gametime to speak out on the forums because I feel the majority of people this effects are not happy about it, myself included.

I'm not asking to roll everybody I run into, that would get boring rather quick. What I want is for my time in pvp to be as important as a person's time who pve's. That being said, if they can have my gear just for hitting level 50 then I want their gear just for hitting level 50. Again your not understanding my gripe here, it's the fact that this move means that a pvp'ers time < a pve'ers time. The highest pvp gear is obtainable by every subscriber, this is not like vanilla wow with HW & GM items that could only be obtained by basement dwellers depending on the server you was on. Let's do this, come up with a skill judgement to give out pvp gear. I'm not sure there is a fair way to do it or how to implement it. I agree that time spent should not be the most important factor, but to strip my rewards from the system I choose to soley focus on is inconsiderate and a bad business move.

If pvp does not need statistical progression then pve doesn't need it either. Let's just gear out everybody who hit's 50 and let them do all the content they are able to do at their skill. Again you're are not understanding my point. People pve to progress in gear, why is it so *********** unreasonable that people can pvp to progress in gear? So what your saying is all of the subscribers that pvp the vast majority of their time can come on here, complain about not having the gear to complete the hardest raids, BW gives it to them and you'd be fine with that? That's what your saying about giving away high level pvp gear.

What you fail to undertand is pvp and pve are 2 seperate parts to this game. BW made it that way when they incorporated multiple level gear sets and experience gains through pvp. I choose to use the pvp system to level and gear, my pvp gear I gained was better for pvp and was not as good for doing pve. Why does a person whom pve's deserve his gear + pvp gear? Why now am I being forced to pve if I want gear progression at all? If I want to do nightmare modes I can't unless I start running some of the easier HM/OP's to get good pve gear to progress to the next level. I would totally agree that fresh 50's & centurions have their own ranked ladders while Champ, BM & WH get their own ladders. That way folks don't get rolled quite so bad. It's wrong to squash one entire system to appease the folks on the other side.

Do you "pass" on every boss drop in raids because you're there for fun? Guess if you answer no you really don't enjoy PVE anyways