Galvatron Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Bioware is hush hush to just get a few more months of subscription payments from us because they have no real plans for pvp outside of warzones and ILUM. Let's be honest here, at the guild summit no real information about open world pvp was given out except Ilum is being reworked.Most questions was answered with a, Yes we have thought about that, or yes thats on our wall of crazy ideas. I think Bioware has no real plans for Open world PVP other than reworking Ilum and adding a warzone here and there. They designed the planets so you hardly see the other faction while leveling. There are no open world objectives on any of the other planets for pvp. They didn't mention adding open world objective except for ILUM. I'm starting to think Bioware doesn't care for the pvp crowd. Edited March 9, 2012 by Galvatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's true. What they don't realize (or maybe they do and this is exactly why) is that you can't simply tack on "world PvP!" to a game that had none during the entire leveling process. Max level characters only is not world PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvatron Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's true. What they don't realize (or maybe they do and this is exactly why) is that you can't simply tack on "world PvP!" to a game that had none during the entire leveling process. Max level characters only is not world PvP. They really need to start engaging the pvp crowd on what plans they do have and stop this hush hush crap. Keeping quite will work for a single player game like mass effect 3 but in a MMO it grow old very quick. They need to start designing most of their new planets with open world pvp in mind. The thing is they might be doing that but no one really knows so players are now looking to GW2 or other pvp centric games. Before you know they don't resub and they are done with swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacha Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 There is only so much strain a rubber band will take before it breaks... Same can be said of the Hero Engine™ used in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralProjection Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 There was this, at least: Q: I read an interview where some huge galactic battle could be coming in the future, what's that involve? Gabe: It's something the PvP team wants to do with world repercussions and results. I guess it depends on how much faith you have in how they're going to implement it. I love the game so I'm going to wait for it, but for most people I think their faith in Gabe is nonexistent. Sounds to me like they're taking some pages from SWG's books and having battles affect actual worlds, which is awesome. Depends on if they're talking a one-time event, or what, or if "something they want to do" means "something they want to do in 18 months". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 There was this, at least: Q: I read an interview where some huge galactic battle could be coming in the future, what's that involve? Gabe: It's something the PvP team wants to do with world repercussions and results. I guess it depends on how much faith you have in how they're going to implement it. I love the game so I'm going to wait for it, but for most people I think their faith in Gabe is nonexistent. Sounds to me like they're taking some pages from SWG's books and having battles affect actual worlds, which is awesome. Depends on if they're talking a one-time event, or what, or if "something they want to do" means "something they want to do in 18 months". space pvp is probably their greatest hope. Lots less to render (dots for stars) you could get an epic amount of players on a blank black slate without TOO much lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's true. What they don't realize (or maybe they do and this is exactly why) is that you can't simply tack on "world PvP!" to a game that had none during the entire leveling process. Max level characters only is not world PvP. in a game you can max level in 2-3 weeks of dedicated play you can take it on at the end, problem is the lag, we have all felt it in illum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvatron Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 space pvp is probably their greatest hope. Lots less to render (dots for stars) you could get an epic amount of players on a blank black slate without TOO much lag. If they could pull that off that would help keeping people busy until they get a clue on how to do open world pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordkhouri Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree... it's really frustrating, and it should not take this long! All you have to do to figure out how to fix it is go to Ilum and see what the problem is.... it's boring for everyone. WE JUST WANNA FIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EduardoJN Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ppl want to be rewarded in world pvp, to do more world pvp, but i see two issues: 1) Ganking party on low levels. (should grant no reward AT ALL) 2) Lack of ppl in some of the pvp servers, which makes me believe that something must be done to adress this in order to raise the open world pvp encounters: char transfer or even server merge. When the launch came, my server (Kinrath Spider) was Full, even had queues for me to get in....now it barely goes standart. In some planets the Republic pop is something like 12 or 8 ppl. Its impossible to have a decent world pvp like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty_Whoopass Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why not just make world pvp happen? In previous mmo's world pvp was just a bunch of people getting together to take over something or harrass something. Go take over the opposite faction's spaceport on a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briljin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Coming from Aion, I have been a big fan of open world PvP. So for me TOR has been a pretty large disappointment for me. I have never been a big PvE guy, I did that route back when I played WoW and found that it was just never that exciting. Now a days I am finding myself going back to Aion to fill the PvP void from TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 My take on this ... The game engine cannot handle open world pvp. And there is nothing that can be done about it. Even with just a full OPS group from both factions duking it out, you still get horrible FPS on Ilum. And I have noticed you also get a memory leak in the PVP area on Ilum as well as you add in more people. While I am on Ilum in an OPS group doing PVP, I notice I get about a 1% increase in memory usage every couple of mins - and I run a 12 GB system. Usually by the time my memory usage jumps to about 67% the game simply crashes. This from a game that tends to run at a very stable 20% everywhere else. With that said I really don't see Bioware embracing world PVP again. I simply don't think the game can handle it. As for space combat, you first have to get the game off of its "rail" system. And certain items like photon torpedos, EMPs, and immunity bubbles on ships make for a very bad system to try to introduce in PVP. Items that were designed for a "throw everything but the kitchen sink at you" PVE system just will be too OP for a much more dimished PVP combat. I honestly believe PVP will be nothing more than minor player initiated fights and warzones only for the next several months. Down the road we may see PVP operations and if that pans out, we may see that expanded. But I honestly think if we do we are talking more about years down the road and not months. The dev team is simply trying to milk more out of a game engine than it is capable of handling currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why not just make world pvp happen? In previous mmo's world pvp was just a bunch of people getting together to take over something or harrass something. Go take over the opposite faction's spaceport on a planet. Yes Kitty, I can remember playing SWG back in its vanilla days and groups would attack player cities for no other reason than to have something to do. Plus since everything in game was made by crafters, the more you destroyed or use the more you would need to purchase to replace. Thus the economy stayed robust. Fast forward to vanilla WoW and people continued that practice. It was actually a challenge to see if a group could reach the capital city's monarch or leader. But over time people stopped doing this. Partially I think because after the first expansion the lines between the two factions became blurred. People stopped looking at the other faction so much as the bad guy. Then fast forward again to a game like AoC with its free killing spree on everyone. Only took a few months for the PVP hard core players to get bored and move on to something else. Now we go forward again to SWTOR. The game is designed to limit interaction between the two factions for most of the game. Hell, the opposing faction can't even travel to the starter planets or capital world for the other faction. On a PVP server, I was on tattooine before I even came across the first Repub outside of a warzone. It would be on Ilum before I could honestly say I ran into opposing faction players on a regular basis. As for attacking the opposing faction's bases (planet or space) the game simply doesn't allow you to do it. Considering the mess we have on Ilum, it was probably a good idea that they separated the two. Can you imagine the number of game crashes we would face if both sides started to fight at one of their fleet areas? These areas work because the devs deliberated turned off combat in these areas. Go to other bases and there is simply nothing there other than quest givers, merchants, and NPC defenders. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are on very short respawn timers. No the question you should ask is not why we don't have PVP at each other's bases. The question you should ask instead is why did Bioware embrace a game engine that can't support these options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why not just make world pvp happen? In previous mmo's world pvp was just a bunch of people getting together to take over something or harrass something. Go take over the opposite faction's spaceport on a planet. well with no player towns and what not its hard to go make it happen. I miss swg when you would roll into an opposing factions town, they see this get everyone together and boom large scale pvp. The same was true with faction bases you could destroy. taking over a lowbie planets spaceport or what not can result in fun...but more likely it will be killing under level/geared players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonewild Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 space pvp is probably their greatest hope. Lots less to render (dots for stars) you could get an epic amount of players on a blank black slate without TOO much lag. CCP and EVE-O would disagree with you, hence time dialation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I don't know if they have absolutely no plans or if they have a vague idea and they're trying to come up with a plan to implement it. For now, I think BW has realized they have completely f**ked up Illum and are looking to either fix or replace it down the line. Of course, since they aren't too big on open or honest communication almost no one, including myself, trusts them to a) do a good job or b) do any kind of a job at all. Edit: Also, player towns are one of the best options for open world PvP. Make them able to be sieged and you'll have large scale battles. Of course, they have to fix the game engine first... Edited March 9, 2012 by RobNightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvatron Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't know if they have absolutely no plans or if they have a vague idea and they're trying to come up with a plan to implement it. For now, I think BW has realized they have completely f**ked up Illum and are looking to either fix or replace it down the line. Of course, since they aren't too big on open or honest communication almost no one, including myself, trusts them to a) do a good job or b) do any kind of a job at all. Edit: Also, player towns are one of the best options for open world PvP. Make them able to be sieged and you'll have large scale battles. Of course, they have to fix the game engine first... What worked really well in SWG was player towns but also the fact a guild could put down a base and the opposing faction would come a try and destroy it. The player placed bases brought a lot of open world pvp that was fun. SWTOR won't add player cities in my opinion. Guild controlled bases could be done and would add a lot of value and fun to open world pvp. IF the pvp devs would just talk to us that would help. I wonder if Gabe doesn't want to talk to us or if Gabe has been told to keep his mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkmonkey Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I just want them to fix the problem in ilum fast because i think it's the best part of this game. I now have a lvl 50 sentinal with bm gear laying in the gutter feeling sorry for himself. sad and lonely on an empty server. Thanks for nothing. /cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromica Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Its because they have no plans. Bioware has no idea on what to do with open world pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3342435#post3342435 Originally Posted by StephenReid Ilum is being deprecated in Game Update 1.2. The Open World PvP area on Ilum will still be present in 1.2, but rewards previously gained in Ilum will be available in Warzones and that's where we expect the bulk of PvP to take place for now. As we said during the Guild Summit, the PvP team is 'going back to the drawing board' with Ilum. That means they want to rework it to be fun and engaging. We accept there are issues with the current design and want to ensure that what we end up with is enjoyable for PvP fans. We have no ETA on when a redesigned Ilum might be available, but when we do have more news, we'll share it. The PvP team definitely monitors these Forums and would love to see constructive feedback on Open World PvP and how you feel it could be improved. They have their own ideas, of course, and they've read many of the posts here but more feedback is always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3342435#post3342435 Originally Posted by StephenReid That means they want to rework it to be fun and engaging. We accept there are issues with the current design and want to ensure that what we end up with is enjoyable for PvP fans. We have no ETA on when a redesigned Ilum might be available, but when we do have more news, we'll share it. So in other words, we are looking at a minimum of 4 months (1.2, design, 1.3) or a more realistic 6 months of warzone after warzone after warzone. I am disappoint. Edited March 9, 2012 by sensiblepoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaipyr Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 They really need to start engaging the pvp crowd ..... Before you know they don't resub and they are done with swtor. And that tiny tiny tiny % of income is slightly missed. By some accountant In a basement somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReddNekk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 They really need to start engaging the pvp crowd on what plans they do have and stop this hush hush crap. That's all Bio does, they never tell their playerbase ANYTHING. They seem to think that by being vague we're all going to be sitting on the edge of our seats in eager anticipation and will gladly wait for who knows how long for what they hinted at to happen. WRONG! Bio, if you want to keep our interest, TALK TO US! Tell us what you have in mind. No hints or definate maybes, solid statements! And dont make promises that you have no intention of keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoTwoOmega Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 the issues with open world pvp are this: 1. population imbalance. 2. Swapping objectives to farm rewards. The reality is open world PVP sounds great on paper but in reality is is nothing more then a zerg and/or farm fest. I really hope that they are able to come up with some really great open world pvp though. It just feels so right in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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