New updated sub numbers (Official)

[Sugarray]

I love this game and I hate this game.

 

Its fortunate that I dont have a substitute..yet.

 

The catering to casual is too much, you are alienating elitists/people who are the slightest bit competitive..

 

I almost have full BiS raiding gear and my guild isnt really HARDCORE HARDCORE. I am not impressed.

[Vecke]

Someone mentioned that the eyeball test isn't reliable, I think to the contrary it is very uselful if used properly. People could tell WAR and AoC where in serious trouble with the eyeball test but fanbois were in disbelief till the axe fell. .

 

While I agree they probably have a problem with a few light servers (the last ones added during launch), I respectfully disagree with this part. You're pointing out two games that happened to be right, but ignoring the fact that people said the same exact things in every single mmo I've ever played - successful or not. It's like saying we should trust a broken clock because it was right twice in one day.

[Dosblade]

Do you really think any MMO is going to give out REAL numbers? What MMO does it? No matter what World of Warcraft puts out most say its a lie or AION, OR AoC do I have to say the rest? All, if you played them you know from the start it was the same old talk.

 

"its not dead people are working, prime time is not the same for everyone, they just show'ed the sells and population and its a record, it always dies down after the 1st 30 days, my server has more people on it now then when I 1st started". If you played any other MMOS and posted in the forums lol you know the story.

 

You have people saying the game is growing since Feb yet not one can show where.

 

Get real the game is not dead nor is it growing. All we have to do is show the server sizes in Feb and NOW.....yeah you will NEVER see those numbers. We all know come some time in April the game will have tons of people for one reason ONLY. 1.2

 

Then 1-3 weeks it will be as it is NOW. Its not that the game is no fun but for most its DEAD. And there is NOTHING thats ever going to change that in the next 6-12 months.

 

People said this in beta and the tons of instances and the feel of solo kills it for most. So no I don't see doom for SWTOR. When they say they are happy if the game just brakes even.. that says it all. "for a lack of vision my people perish".

 

So if like this game who cares what ANYONE says. Until they say FTP or shut down keep playing. Always going to be someone saying its dead..no its better then ever.. blah blah blah..

 

But dont ever think SWTOR are never going to with hold info.. bad info will not help the game like everyone else.. bend the truth as far as you can..

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dosblade

[Evironrage]

Yes this game doesn't go down because:

 

1) Casuals keep playing because they like the easy mode

2) People just want to play with glowsticks and that's all they care about in an MMO

 

The people who actually came to play a good MMO, have all left or are about to.

 

Unfortunately this is fairly accurate.

I wanted this game to be great, and mind you it is OK, but by no means does it have enough difficult content to keep many avid MMOers interested. It is an easy mode MMO, that does have quite a bit to do, and it will keep casuals around for quite a while I suspect.

Good for BW because they worked hard to make a candy coated, SW EU MMO, that is entertaining, just not challenging.

I hope the bonuses are nice because they earned it. Nothing wrong with making a few dollars while doing what you love.

[Touchbass]

While I agree they probably have a problem with a few light servers (the last ones added during launch), I respectfully disagree with this part. You're pointing out two games that happened to be right, but ignoring the fact that people said the same exact things in every single mmo I've ever played - successful or not. It's like saying we should trust a broken clock because it was right twice in one day.

 

Point is with AoC and WAR there were warning bells that people pointed out. With WoW people said it was going to fail but there conclusions were off of false pretenses. Same reason why this game is going to fail, there is no reasonable expectation or logical reasons for subs to massively drop. However I think there is enough to go on that the game will start shrinking down a few hundred thousand, same logic that upheld why the game hadn't hit 2 million subs when there was no official announcement.

[MGriffith]

Seeing as you have to use a credit card to play even with a free month everyone gets billed.

 

Nope.

You only get billed AFTER the free month. If you cancel within the first 30 days you will not be charged at all and will never become an active subscriber the way Bioware defines it.

[Akirator]

Nope.

You only get billed AFTER the free month. If you cancel within the first 30 days you will not be charged at all and will never become an active subscriber the way Bioware defines it.

 

You will be an active subscriber from day 1, you just won't be a recurring subscriber until the 30 days are over and you actually get billed.

[ThMirtisAsmenys]

I'm just going to go middle of the road here and try and explain some issues from a more neutral perspective than what i've witnessed in this thread.

 

1. What BW/EA defines as a 'sub'

BW/EA defines a subscriber as someone who has bought the game and is in their first free month AND/OR is past their first free month and are currently playing. If this was not the case the CEO would not have mentioned that there were significantly more people who were out of their first free month when explaining about the 1.7 million figure.

 

2. Dead/low population servers

I recently unsubscribed partly because of this but i'm trying to be neutral here. Yes there are some servers that are very low on population these days. Even in comparison with last month these servers in question are much less populated. This stems from being people growing tired of the endgame content and pvp, people being done with leveling a character to level 50, unsubs, migrators to higher pop servers, and the opening of new servers internationally. Bioware I'm sure is looking into making server transfers easier but are admittedly having problems with the transfers due to the legacy system afaik. I am sure that BW/EA is also waiting until post 1.2 to seriously consider dumping more resources into server merging and character transfers. I rolled a character on a heavy pop server and this game is WAAAAYYY more fun with more people on so those of you who have low pop servers, my condolences, try and reroll or wait for 1.2's release.

 

3. The game's content

The voice acting and cutscene/choices is cool and all but after awhile extremely annoying. Though I am glad they left that out of OPS. The story is great but I don't think that anyone is arguing against that. What people mainly complain about are many features that are coming in 1.2 afaik and the bugs. Say what you want that WoW didn't have 'so and so' feature when it came out but remember that was 7 years and some months ago. WoW redefined the genre and many players have come to expect things that are available in WoW in other MMOs. IDC what your reason is, not having a dual spec feature available at launch for a class tree system is ridiculous imo. If I want to excel at being a pve tank and maybe be able to pvp or pve as a dps/hybrid I don't want to go have to respec and pay fees for that. Once 1.2 is released it won't be an issue but the people I know who have quit or are quitting this game did so before the announcement of the features in 1.2. They simply expected some main features of a mmo THESE DAYS (just emphasizing) to include some of these features. MY opinion is that they hurried to release the game before Xmas and with plenty of time before another major seller (also BW lol) ME3 was released. Other than missing some key features, the gameplay is pretty awesome and the few bugs that were/are present are extremely excusable considering the amount of lines of code that this game possesses.

 

4. Bioware/EA profits/expenses regarding SWTOR.

In regards to the Box version sales profits.

Sold on origin (digital dowload) $60 - total profit $60; deluxe $80/$80; CE $150/X(x=sales-production costs for contents of CE box)

Sold in stores $60 - total profit ~$50 (as sold to store) - Cost of production for box contents - shipping/receiving, etc.

Production costs as a whole for the development/upkeep of a game

Beginning: High - recruiting/hiring of new personal, updraging and purchasing new equipment and supplies when necessary, salaries.

Middle: see beginning with less emphasis on HR and purchaing costs decline to an extent.

Pre-release: Very High - See beginning due to newly created positions to deal with Customer Service and server IT. purchase/upgrade of (if not previously owned/current) servers and server technology. MARKETING. Prodcution of physical product (aka the 'Box'). Etc.

Post-release: Very High - Monitoring of current product and sub trends leads to increase/decrease in employees and thus salaries. Creation or expansion of current customer service. Marketing. Retension of a sizeable portion of the development team to create patches and expansions.

So for those of you who think that mmos (worth their salt) just rake in the cash after release are kidding yourselves. That's why their CEO mentioned that at 500k subs they would break even and at 1m would make a small profit (he even mentioned it not being anything to write home about).

 

5. The Number of Subs

1.7 million is a TON of subs. We do not currently know how many total boxes were sold, we just know is >2 million so we cannot calculate the retention rate only that is most likely less than or equal to 85%. I'm guessing that many people are waiting until the release of tera/gw2 and the beta of the latter to want to fully commit to an mmo or stay subbed to a game they are CURRENTLY bored in. Note that is a guess. Wait until post 1.2 and we'll see if the number of subs increases or decreases with people coming back or leaving and that might be a decent indicator of the games early fate. (not its ultimate fate just its early fate).

 

6. Fanboy vs. Hater

People on here need to chill the F*ck out.

To Fanboy: people like to voice their opinions on a topic. if they dont agree with your opinion that's why it's called an opinion don't berate people for voicing their concerns/greivances with a certain topic. If anything on this forum it makes the fanboys of this game out to be blind, brain-washed douches instead of people who enjoy the game. Also stop saying that the game is 'better' without all the people that quit or who are complaining/have complained. You should want a game with the best possible retention. Consider your week/biweekly wages (assuming you have one. for those of you who don't i hope you the best of luck in attaining one keep up the search ) now imagine you lose a further 15-20% of that to taxes without any service in return. Life is going to be a little harder for many of you and you'll most likely be forced to change the way in which you live. Subs of this game are Swtor's salary. If it's salary is cut it has to respond by changing its lifestyle. Whether that is cutting the quality of CS, the deletion/delay of intenteded future projects, or what have you I see no reasonable explanation to, if you do indeed love this game, wish to see it suffer. Telling people the game is better off without them is a JOKE. Also, some people who quit or are quitting probably don't necessarily want to and that's why their on the forums/website monitoring the game and its status from the best current statistic on player population and enjoyment aka the player base itself.

 

To Hater: What are you doing on the forums if you quit or hate this game? Trolling stuff like this is just plain asanine. If you intend to influence people to quit this game or just want to see it fail you clearly are an insensitive *****. You obviously have no care that the people who work on this game and their families and even as a ripple effect would suffer if this game shut down. If you are hear just to see some 'fanboys' squeal about the game they love then you have the interests of an ahole teenager. If you are an ahole teenager please go and do something more constructive with your time.

 

To people who do not fit into either of these descriptions and are generally concerned/happy with the game as it is currently as well as the civil posters who I have read throughout this thread I hope this game continues to grow and pulls me back in the near future. Until then I hope those who are playing enjoy it and to those who aren't I hope you find a reason to return in the future as well.

[Touchbass]

^To the poster above, I enjoyed the read. Just a question, you said you quit over low population servers but re-rolled to a high population server? Did I miss your intention?

[ThMirtisAsmenys]

I did quit partly do to low pop server. However, that wasn't my main reason for unsubbing. My guild was losing members fast as well as losing interest in the end game content and specifically the pvp I found myself sitting doing basically nothing on the fleet to often. Also I am taking a long vacation in a few days so I didn't wish to be subscribed while on that and when I get back I will be doing the Tera beta. The main reason for my unsubbing in conclusion I suppose would be that my friends have left the game and that I am bored with the current content. Hopefully that could change in the 1.2 or subsequent patches as I do like the game.

[eldisper]

I did quit partly do to low pop server. However, that wasn't my main reason for unsubbing. My guild was losing members fast as well as losing interest in the end game content and specifically the pvp I found myself sitting doing basically nothing on the fleet to often. Also I am taking a long vacation in a few days so I didn't wish to be subscribed while on that and when I get back I will be doing the Tera beta. The main reason for my unsubbing in conclusion I suppose would be that my friends have left the game and that I am bored with the current content. Hopefully that could change in the 1.2 or subsequent patches as I do like the game.

 

Tthe population you are looking at is just the people in your area i, I agree it makes it appear there are not many players on but we just get to see a small portion of the people on an area of a server. I believe that part should be removed as it is somewhat decieving . I think I may suggest that ea removes that part of the game. I to have been on a planet that says 7 people on, but I know that just is in that particular to the area I am in. I also would like ea to place a guildfinder back in the game for it is very hard to build a team from just the people in the area.

[Nitewolfe]

All i know is how it feels. I start on a high server.. It went dead... i rolled over to another full que time server.. its dead now... I recently rerolled to the last full pve server and the last couple of days its down to standard to heavy and dropping fast!

 

 

BW can spout all the numbers they want. What matters is how it feels to the player!

[Evuke]

these figures are for february, i'd love to see them for early May when all the 2 month time card subs are up, all the 2 month subs are up, and all the suckers who bought 3 month subs are up.

 

you just have to login to the servers to know there's a fraction of the people playing who were playing in dec/jan/feb.

 

yes they are trying to "buff" their terrible figures by releasing in asia/oceania , but i doubt the small amount of sales in those areas will offset the massive drop in subs they will have by then.

 

i'm tipping <800k subs come early may

 

and later in the year after gw2, d3, tera, secret world etc have all released it will be closer to <400k

 

there's just no lastability in this game, once you hit 50 a few times it gets boring quick

Edited March 22, 2012 by Evuke

[Rotoroot]

The similarities (including management/patching/priorities) between this game and Warhammer Online are astounding. I expect SWTOR to see the same results. I do not blame people for calling this game dead now... It has a year tops before its down to three servers and that's being very generous. I expect population/subcriptions to cut in half within a month of 1.2

 

I'm calling it now.

 

Let's wait and see and enjoy the show.

[MrSchmo]

All i know is how it feels. I start on a high server.. It went dead... i rolled over to another full que time server.. its dead now... I recently rerolled to the last full pve server and the last couple of days its down to standard to heavy and dropping fast!

 

 

BW can spout all the numbers they want. What matters is how it feels to the player!

 

You're server cancer!

 

Or your not taking in consideration of population fluctuation day by day.

[Evironrage]

You're server cancer!

 

Or your not taking in consideration of population fluctuation day by day.

 

Or perhaps the sub numbers are not an accurate account of how many boxes were sold. There is no doubt the population is down. It is evident to anyone who can play with regularity (more than 3x a week for 2-5hrs a day). It is just good PR spin on BW's part.

[rtaylormade]

to me it look's like bw put 75% of time and money in lvl up 1-49. 5% lvl 50 content, 5% space, 10% wz, 5% lvl 50 pvp/ilum. i have 3 lvl 50 and not lvling anymore. its not hard just so boring. i see a few things they did wrong and need to be fixed.

 

1. lvl was to easy but cant fix that.

 

2. resolve doest work. ruined pvp. they made it harder then it should have been. simply way" remove stun/snare-you remove all stun's/snares from you ans for 15 sec cant be stunned/snared again. 2min c.d." simply and works

 

3. balanced- well not alot of balanced in pvp.

 

4.fix cant hit target because not facing it. if it is targeted then i should auto move and able to shoot it.

 

5.pvp, yes i think that 70% of people leaving are pvpers that are upset. i mean really ilum is dead. why did you listen to carebears that want to sit in wz all day and get kills for doing nothing. just deleted ilum and get it over with.

 

6.space=enough said. really isnt space but , nm nothing to say about it.

 

i see this game going to have long term sub troubles. yes 1.7mil sub but think that it didnt go up, even after selling alot of game. so here is what people are doing.

buying the game, lvl up, then quit after 2 to 3 months. sad but true ao yes after 6-9 months if they dont fix stuff there subs will go down fast as everyone that is going to buy it did already.

 

we came here with 30+ pvpers from swg, only 5 left. no idea why i am still here just waiting like so many for 1.2.

 

and no you cant have my stuff if i leave.

[Akella]

Anyone can predict the future. They may not be right but they can make a guess.

 

It's fine that you enjoy it, but with the changes I have seen thus far coming in 1.2 and the botched legacy system I expect it will grow stale for a great many of us who have come to expect more from mmos.

 

I can't WAIT to play the MMO you are developing. Please let us know what it is and when it's going to be out. If you're not developing one you really should be. With your mmo experience, I'm sure it will be awesome.

 

In any event 1.7 subscribers isn't bad at all in this day and age.

[quantumsheep]

stuff on page 79.

 

I hope you come back at some point! Well written post and very level headed.

 

A breath of fresh air, sir!

 

QS

Edited March 30, 2012 by quantumsheep

[Ionna]

300K loss? Last months sub numbers were 1.7, this months sub numbers are 1.7( or ALMOST 1.7 depending on the article). Where is this 300K coming from?

 

 

not sure if these ppl are dense or didnt read the article, but just in case... he said they sold 2mill+ boxes and there are 1.7 million subs

 

2 mill - 1.7 mill = 300k (ie what he said)

 

I like the game a lot, but the lack of population is taking away a lot of play time atm for a lot of ppl on mid/low pop realms. Mid being active during prime time and low being active never. Is disheartening to log in and there are only 8 to 20 lvl 50s on total (and yes thats serverwide, not just on fleet or something). It means you can grp for anything and no ques will pop. This will cause more ppl to move on than anything else imo.

[DarthNiktu]

I'm on Kai Kan

 

7 people online at the moment

[Ansultares]

Maybe I missed something huge; it's certainly possible given that I never touched AoC or WAR -- but as far as I know, WoW is the only Western MMO that has ever posted numbers well north of 1 million. If you're saying that the AoC/WAR producers announced ridiculously high numbers (like 1.7 million) just prior to their collapse, then I stand corrected.

Both achieved impressive box sales given their respective developers and IP, and yet both suffered massive attrition in the following months. WAR briefly staunched the tide as Mythic worked on several "miracle patches" while EA aggressively pushed releases into foreign markets. I can't speak for what Funcom did with AoC, as I cancelled before my free month was up after running into a bsod.

 

Either way, Funcom is now set to release The Secret World; I wish them well, because outside of massive performance issues and a thin end-game I never reached AoC was a great game, and TSW sounds really interesting. EA, meanwhile, relatively rapidly consolidated WAR down to a single server, and doubled down on SWTOR (WAR had already been the most expensive MMO release ever at ~$200M, and now I hear that SWTOR cost ~$500M).

Edited March 30, 2012 by Ansultares

[agomemnon]

To OP well all that gonna change in lower numbers science many players have 3 month subs. scheduled like my self which runs out in 19 days and im not intending to extend it becouse , BW gives 0 attention to the community , ignoring it prety much , fixes in notes most of the time don't work , way to slow reaction from their side , and this 1.2 patch don't know im intrested at all to see anything from those features , pvp in this game is just a cc fest that means pvp = 0 after played a character saw the story was fun but in loong term run has nothing to give me , with all class nerfs what 1.2 has many will consider what they gonna do , maybe BW is to fast to give out numbers beeing optimistic i would say they can bee happy if they can keep their current sub. numbers which i really doubt Edited March 30, 2012 by agomemnon

[JohanGill]

The large amount of servers, combined with not being able to transfer characters, is a problem in some spots. Considering the total amount of subscribers (second to only WoW and Aion, it seems), there is surely enough people around to make the game world pretty living, but there are quite many servers. I believe we will see at least one of cross-server warzone queueing or character transfers in 1.3, but that is just speculation on my behalf.

[Macabakur]

Definitely not a bad thing, but there's still way too many bugs. I expect a few, but the amount of stuff that doesnt work properly is way too high. I'm still here though trying to beat the amazingly buggy hard mode Soa.