"Clickers"

[Evan_Gregory]

Also, it's not theory when ranged dps players constantly use and practice it successfully.

 

Oh your statement that "strafing is useless" isn't theory?

 

I'm assuming that you have it backed up by facts and examples that prove that you never ever have to strafe and it's "useless"...

[Galbatorrix]

Look, I agree that keybinding is more effective. But that doesn't some how make clicking ineffective as a result. Plenty of people do it and plenty of people have a lot of success regardless. Next time you run a pug and have a good tank or healer, ask them if they click. You might be surprised. Heck, that awesome tank or healer might just be me.

[Evan_Gregory]

Look, I agree that keybinding is more effective. But that doesn't some how make clicking ineffective as a result. Plenty of people do it and plenty of people have a lot of success regardless. Next time you run a pug and have a good tank or healer, ask them if they click. You might be surprised. Heck, that awesome tank or healer might just be me.

 

You're the only clicker on this thread with reasoning and understanding.

 

I bet you are a pretty decent player despite the fact you click, but have you ever thought of the grand world of potential growth you could make if you switched to keybinds?

 

Who knows, you may go from good as a clicker, to ****** pro as a keybinder.

[Balmuck]

Here is what I can't fathom as a pearson who ABSOLUTELY hates keyboards and PC gaming... yes, I grew up with a console so I don't really care for the over priced piece of hardware that never seems to work when you you need it... look at this game and Ilum for example.

 

Majority of these "key binders" say that it's impossible to move and strafe while clicking, seem to be the clickers themselves.

 

 

How does one strafe with the mouse? It's not possible. My strafe keys, are bound to the keyboard and then the most neccesarry abilities, especially my instant heal and shield on the sage, are bound to the closest buttons next to the strafe keys... rest of my keybinds are on my mouse, 1-9, which are modified by alt and shift, which are bound to buttons right underneath my space bar and make my life a whole lot better.

 

 

I do wanna say one thing.

 

 

You can strafe and click at the same time. You can move and kite and click at the same time. Nothing changes between kiting and strafing while clicking and while using the mouse. It's not like you have to hold your mouse to strafe, it's done vie key input.

[Qonor]

Everyone who clicks because you have 0% chance to turn your character/strafe whilst clicking abilities.

 

While I will agree that keybinding is better, clickers can move with WADS and strafe with QE while clicking. So, 0% is incorrect unless my keyboard is special.

[Sparklehorse]

I am usually a clicker in PvP. I'm far from the best PvP'er and enjoy PVE content just as much. Not only do I click, but also backup, alot. And somehow I was consistantly in the top 5 in kills, damage and/or objective points in warzones from lvl 10-49.

 

You want to show me your uber circle-strafe skills and I will just backup so you are running in circles in front of me while I blast away. I can keyboard turn when needed and click attacks as fast as cooldowns allow me to.

 

There is no doubt an advantage to those that are hardcore keybinding PvP'ers, but obviously not that much of one.

 

Of course now I am way behind in the lvl 50 bracket PvP as far as equipement goes since I spent much of my time in PVE, so I get spanked often, but it's not because of my clicking.

 

This is a joke right?

 

Did you just imply that back pedaling AND keyboard turning are successful methods of control in a pvp environment?

 

Gotta be a joke.

[tronot]

My main problem is that with alts, how do you remember all your 30+ keybinds on multiple toons?

 

Same way you learn anything: Practice and memorization.

[Evan_Gregory]

Here is what I can't fathom as a pearson who ABSOLUTELY hates keyboards and PC gaming... yes, I grew up with a console so I don't really care for the over priced piece of hardware that never seems to work when you you need it... look at this game and Ilum for example.

 

Majority of these "key binders" say that it's impossible to move and strafe while clicking, seem to be the clickers themselves.

 

 

How does one strafe with the mouse? It's not possible. My strafe keys, are bound to the keyboard and then the most neccesarry abilities, especially my instant heal and shield on the sage, are bound to the closest buttons next to the strafe keys... rest of my keybinds are on my mouse, 1-9, which are modified by alt and shift, which are bound to buttons right underneath my space bar and make my life a whole lot better.

 

 

I do wanna say one thing.

 

 

You can strafe and click at the same time. You can move and kite and click at the same time. Nothing changes between kiting and strafing while clicking and while using the mouse. It's not like you have to hold your mouse to strafe, it's done vie key input.

 

You make decent points, but the main reason we say movement is more efficient and easier with the mouse turning is for scenarios in which you need to strafe run, turn at times, and cast.

 

Yes you can strafe and cast if you are a clicker, but strafe, cast and turn becomes awkward and difficult.

[Balmuck]

It's the same thing from the other side. People assuming clickers never use their mouse to strafe/move. I'm a clicker and I use a combo of both. I'll admit that I can't strafe and click at the same time, but come on... it's not like games with a GCD need lightning fast reflexes or anything. This isn't a twitch game.

 

You can strafe and click, I'm going to fraps it tonight when I get back home.

 

 

However, I know some amazing players that click but all in all, your skill will improve if you key bind, if nothing, your imput will improve just by a bit which will make your life a lot better especially in small fight situations.

[Orizuru]

I don't see the big deal with clickers. I'm a clicker and I always get great stats... it could be that I'm extremely fast with the clicks and I know my rotations and I beat the global cooldown tenfold. Is the term "clicker" aimed towards people who are more slow or everyone who clicks in general?

 

I can understand if its towards the slower clicking people because I know a few people like that and it annoys me to watch them play

 

If you don't think it's a big deal then why did you start a thread about it?

 

Play however you like. If you are having fun, you're doing it right.

[Evan_Gregory]

If you don't think it's a big deal then why did you start a thread about it?

 

Burn!

[Galbatorrix]

You're the only clicker on this thread with reasoning and understanding.

 

I bet you are a pretty decent player despite the fact you click, but have you ever thought of the grand world of potential growth you could make if you switched to keybinds?

 

Who knows, you may go from good as a clicker, to ****** pro as a keybinder.

 

 

I've actually tried before in WOW, but it was several years after playing as a clicker and it just felt weird and clumsy to me. I kept hitting the wrong spells or hitting the wrong movement keys when I'd bring my fingers back down after hitting a spell. Plus I felt like I had to look at my keyboard way too often. It was one of those things were I knew I'd probably benefited from it if I'd just stick with it, but because clicking had always worked for me, I switched back and have been clicking ever since. I may try again one day, but for now, what I do seems to work fine.

[origamikitsune]

So. Just out of curiosity, did anyone consider that you can watch the action on the screen, and still see the action bars in your peripheral vision. As well, you can see where the mouse is in relationship to them? You don't have to keep your eyes glued to the bar to click. Just sayin'. Some people have that awareness of their peripheral vision, some don't.

 

Just like some people are really good at touch typing and can keybind without a problem. And some people can't remember the keyboard to save their life.

 

The only fact you can argue is that a great clicker is a great clicker, and a great keybinder is a great keybinder. No one has any ground to stand on to say that the keybinder MUST be better than the clicker. Not yet, at least.

 

When/if the top 20 PvPers in ranked warzones say they are all clickers or all keybinders, then I'll consider that one way may be better than the other, and that anyone has a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

Until then, there is no evidence one way or the other to show which one is better. Any way you argue it, all you can say is "I think X is better" because quite frankly, you don't know.

 

And if you do know, show me some actual proof, at which point I will concede the argument and change to that method to better improve myself.

[Frozenshiva]

I'm only going to say these two things one time.

 

The first thing i'm going to say is,, LET THE PEOPLE PLAY WHATEVER WAY THEY WANT TO.

It's a game. I see no problem with people being clickers. It's their way of playing, what does it matter to you?

 

"But clicking is bad, you're gimping yourself" SO?!?!? There's probably 5 times more people key-binders than there are clickers, yet the absolute "crop of the crop" if you permit me to use this expresion, is less than 5% of the playerbase. And in that 5% there are clickers as well.

 

So at the end of the day what does it matter? As long as the person is doing it right, it's right. That's like the math teacher scolding you in school for using a different method to solve the problem, than the one thought in school. Doesn't matter. you solved the problem!

 

I've had my fair share of server firsts and top 200 parses and im a key-binder.

But here's the catch. One of the people in my guild had top 30 parses, and ....he was/is a clicker. A clicker outperformed me. and half the guild, in a guild going for server firsts every single patch/expansion with half the guild with top 100 parses.

 

The second thing is this.

Klicking is statistically worse than key-binding.

Yes it's true. We all understand that and it won't change.

However here's the shocker, statistically speaking, there are FAR MORE bad key-binders than there are clickers.

For every one bad clicker, you have like 10 bad key-binders.

 

So why does it really matter how the person is playing as long as he is showing results?

And even if he doesn't show results. who cares?

As long as the person is not trying (does not want) to complete the hardest content available, it doesn't matter.

If he's a "bad" (and do take into account the quotations) he will be limited in what he can accomplish until he improves to the point it is required of him.

If he doesn't improve and is still bad at the end of the day, newsflash, he won't be getting a spot in that raid/operation/flashpoint/you-name-it , REGARDLESS if he is a clicker or a binder.

 

So stop bashing each other. You're being ridiculous... especially the binders.

[Balmuck]

I'll see if I can run my fraps tonight and then do some duels while clicking. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to click and strafe especially with the 1.5 sec GCD in this game.

 

 

idk, strafing is nothing more keeping your target in LoS as you're kiting and even in melee situation, when getting circle strafed, you should be able to circle strafe yourself by just holding down your strafe keys and then the opposite camera control key.

[Astharothtx]

Hi

 

I'm only going to say these two things one time.

...

 

So stop bashing each other. You're being ridiculous... especially the binders.

 

+100000000000000000

[eightohfive]

I for one love clickers...Pretty sure I just fought one on Voss the other day. Half the time they couldn't even use an ability since I was able to stay directly behind them and use all my abilities at the same time. It was quite hilarious.

[Astharothtx]

Hi

 

So. Just out of curiosity, did anyone consider that you can watch the action on the screen, and still see the action bars in your peripheral vision. As well, you can see where the mouse is in relationship to them? You don't have to keep your eyes glued to the bar to click. Just sayin'. Some people have that awareness of their peripheral vision, some don't.

--

And if you do know, show me some actual proof, at which point I will concede the argument and change to that method to better improve myself.

 

Maybe there is a relationship... i mean, the ppl i know that comes from fps style games and was good on those games seems to be like me more comfortable with clicking. Maybe is cause peripheral vision (needed on fps) and mouse / distance relationship.

[Ugrala]

So. Just out of curiosity, did anyone consider that you can watch the action on the screen, and still see the action bars in your peripheral vision. As well, you can see where the mouse is in relationship to them? You don't have to keep your eyes glued to the bar to click. Just sayin'. Some people have that awareness of their peripheral vision, some don't.

 

Just like some people are really good at touch typing and can keybind without a problem. And some people can't remember the keyboard to save their life.

 

The only fact you can argue is that a great clicker is a great clicker, and a great keybinder is a great keybinder. No one has any ground to stand on to say that the keybinder MUST be better than the clicker. Not yet, at least.

 

When/if the top 20 PvPers in ranked warzones say they are all clickers or all keybinders, then I'll consider that one way may be better than the other, and that anyone has a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

Until then, there is no evidence one way or the other to show which one is better. Any way you argue it, all you can say is "I think X is better" because quite frankly, you don't know.

 

And if you do know, show me some actual proof, at which point I will concede the argument and change to that method to better improve myself.

 

QFT!!

 

I do a combo of both. I have all my main abilities bound around my move keys so I have access to all my combat skills at my finger tips. After this I have my mouse on a constant hover mode. I use it to swing my camera and my character while moving and have it near my hot bars for the skills I need. I pretty much only click non essential moves like defense CDs, Adrenals and such. I don't even need to look where I am going to click them most times cause its just natural reaction for me.

 

I have tried binding all my moves to keys with Shift or Alt for stuff as well. To much fat fingering or not pressing a key down enough ect. I have come to master the way I play and thats that.

[TheBigDRC]

Good god almighty, is this still going on? O.o

[Frozenshiva]

Actually, I have been discussing the activating of abilities in which there are on two ways to do that, keybinds or clicking.

 

Give me 3 legitimate benefits of clicking that you cannot do with keybinding. And don't say "super fast clicks!" because there are global cd's, and keys can also be pressed very fast.

 

 

 

You do know that in some situations, key-binding can actually be WORSE than clicking?

You know ..in all those situations when you're not a hardcore gamer that knows everything about awesome gaming gear ... and are using a "crap" mouse and keyboard, and most likely a ghosting keyboard?

 

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/antighostingexplained.mspx

 

*edited so the big bad mod doesn't get mad

Edited March 9, 2012 by Frozenshiva

[Averran]

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[Galbatorrix]

Actually, I have been discussing the activating of abilities in which there are on two ways to do that, keybinds or clicking.

 

Give me 3 legitimate benefits of clicking that you cannot do with keybinding. And don't say "super fast clicks!" because there are global cd's, and keys can also be pressed very fast.

 

 

Well, to be honest, if the clicker is using the keyboard for full movement, including strafing, binding doesn't really have much of an advantage. I'd still say there's some advantage, but not enough to make much of a difference.

[candu]

Clicker is fine.

 

Theres also really fast clickers, and in this game there is no way you can bind all skills. Theres just too many.

 

The only advatage you have at binding is that you can use skills and move at the same time. That can be useful in encounters and PvP, but if you're a skilled enough clicker you can do good enough to not make it a huge difference.

 

In the end: play the game whoever you want. If you want to maximise your performance then you're gonna have to bind a few skills though (main combat ones).

 

Your right, its all preference, my arena partner in WoW was a rogue clicker, and he got around just fine. me on the other hand im a keybinder and i have all of my keys bound, But of course i dont use a traditional keyboard, I use a N52TE gaming keyboard and have every key bound using advantage of alt. ctrl, and shift

[origamikitsune]

Actually, I have been discussing the activating of abilities in which there are on two ways to do that, keybinds or clicking.

 

Give me 3 legitimate benefits of clicking that you cannot do with keybinding. And don't say "super fast clicks!" because there are global cd's, and keys can also be pressed very fast.

 

Because I have a fairly vanilla mouse (chosen for its size and comfort) and not a gaming mouse with extra buttons (which I can't afford anyhow), I cannot bind strafing to my mouse (but oh how I wish my tilt-wheel would work for strafing!) I have to use the keyboard. If I am circle strafing someone, that means my hand is glued to the strafe direction and counter-spinning the camera. If I lift my fingers to use a key-bound abilities, I stop strafing. Solution? Click the ability with my mouse. Benefit #1.

 

Keyboard targeting in this game sucks balls (at least in my experience). If I click to target, I always get exactly the target I want, when I want it. Benefit #2.

 

When I don't need to be moving (mostly PvE, but also not necessarily uncommon in PvP), if I am clicking, I can click and keybind at the same time. For example, controlling my companion with keybinds and myself with clicks. Or, using my abilities that don't respect GCD with keybinds, and those that do with clicking. Marginal gain, I'll admit, but it is certainly faster than having to move my hand across the keyboard to get to different keys. And I couldn't do it without clicking. Benefit #3.

 

I came up with those, while I was playing all keybind style. Didn't even have to think about it all that much.

 

EDIT: What are three benefits of keybinding? I'll be nice at let you have #3 for yourself, since really its hybrid play style. Its the least I could do.

Edited March 9, 2012 by origamikitsune