PvP from a Sage's PoV

[Chaosmagistrate]

A lot of people are playing sorc/sage because so many people complain about them on the forums. It has nothing to do with how strong they actually are. Hybrid Sorcs make for good screenshots from AoE damage, that's about it.

 

I'd lean more toward saying that Sorcs/Sages don't have that same burst potential as Ops(pre-nerf), or Pyros(with good procs), Ragernauts/Ragerauders, and Snipers.

 

When those guys are easily hitting 4ks on instants(regardless of setup time), people want to feel like they WTFPWNED the guy, not cast two DoTs-channel some lightning, stun him, proc some instants, throw some more lightning...and basically hit like 10+ buttons to kill someone.

 

Everyone wants to play the WTFPWN guy, noone wants to play the guy who applies all the CC, peels off the healer, applies the sustained pressure.

 

The feeling of gibbing the guy or "executing" the guy is so much more exciting that throwing pebbles at a guy and whittling him down to death.

[Calista_ZK]

Sages/Sorcs are OP, if you don't realize this then you are lost. I'm not saying everything about the class is OP, but you guys have the most tools out of any other class. Also the way your skill trees are set up, those hybrid specs are the ones causing the most trouble.

 

1.2 I hope addresses this, you guys can keep all your tools, that's fine. However, the skill trees need to be readjusted, and the rock/lightning spam crap has got to go. If you want to spam it, you should run out of force fast. If you don't want to run out of force, then the snare, dmg, or cooldown needs to be adjusted.

 

Maybe when they do this you won't see 9/10 WZ with more then half a team either Sorc or Sage (don't say that's not true, because it definitely is). Don't believe me, one match the other night had 16 Inquistors in it, 2 were SINs. hmmmm

 

It isn't true in many cases. I've been in many warzones where our team has only one sage.

 

I'm sure you have gap closers, pull/ grapple, etc. if you are melee.

 

OR if their team has those skills, so does YOUR team.... so don't see the problem , unless you are off soloing off on the side somewhere?

 

If they are "spamming" those skills...then so is your team:D

[Calista_ZK]

This is pretty accurate, but pro sorcs are atleast like a ticke me elmo on steroids.

 

Best post of the day, thank you for a good laugh

 

and it's accurate too!

[GreymaneAlpha]

I would rather see Sage DPS and Mitigation increased at the expense of some of the (in my view as a Sage) overpowered utility spells.

 

Force Lift does not need to be instant when sages already have an instant stun.

 

Telekinetic Throw does not need a 50% snare when sages already have a 50% snare.

 

And finally--when 1.2 comes out they will almost certainly break double-dipping of Barrage for back-to-back 1.5sec Telekinetic Throws. This will break the only burst that the hybrid spec has and force people into either Deep Balance//Madness or Deep Telekinetics//Lightning. At which point every Sage's overall damage meter numbers in battlegrounds will fall 25% without instant Telekinetic Wave // Chain Lightning.

 

The problem is that both of the deep talent specs suck on single-target DPS, and probably need to be buffed.

[Chaosmagistrate]

I would rather see Sage DPS and Mitigation increased at the expense of some of the (in my view as a Sage) overpowered utility spells.

 

Force Lift does not need to be instant when sages already have an instant stun.

 

Telekinetic Throw does not need a 50% snare when sages already have a 50% snare.

 

And finally--when 1.2 comes out they will almost certainly break double-dipping of Barrage for back-to-back 1.5sec Telekinetic Throws. This will break the only burst that the hybrid spec has and force people into either Deep Balance//Madness or Deep Telekinetics//Lightning. At which point every Sage's overall damage meter numbers in battlegrounds will fall 25% without instant Telekinetic Wave // Chain Lightning.

 

The problem is that both of the deep talent specs suck on single-target DPS, and probably need to be buffed.

 

Or the intent of Bioware was to make Sages a support utility class and not a single-target burst DPS class.

 

I would agree that that Sages need a more burst-oriented tree, but then they would definitely have to give something up.

[CuriousK]

The only class you can kite is operative/scoundrel.

 

I have no problems kiting guardians/sentinals on my sorc. (or for that matter my healing Operative) The only classes you cannot kite, are those that have appreciable ranged damage that equals or exceeds your own capacity for ranged damage. All other classes you can kite to some extent.

[xtoo]

Yeah, the more time i spend paying attention to this section of the forums, the more i find my server must really be the odd man out/exception to almost everything. I don't see nearly all the sorcerer/sages that other servers do, republic actually out numbers and out plays the imps, and well, the classes taht should be good are played by bads while the classes that should be bad, are apparently played by the pros.

 

I feel that way too. I'm on hanharr. (btw the person i consider to be the best empire pvper is a full lightning sorc. He usually dies no more than three times a match. Sorcs have fine survivability.

[Darthbarbarous]

Translation:

 

Im a melee class I think Im good because I can beat a sorc/sage. (Hint: Your not. You win because your supposed to)

 

FYI: If your a melee and you cant beat a sorc/sage. You need to quit. Melee class > Sorc/sages is WAI as of today.

 

Translation:

 

I have no clue what I am talking about, so I make up stuff as needed to try and support my ultimate goal of not getting my op face roll class/build nerfed. Please bioware don't nerf my class, I really enjoy the false belief that I have skill with this character.

[RobotronMM]

First of all, your not a pvp'r because if you were you know DPS means nothing in pvp. You called yourself a DPS Sage LOL....

 

3 most important things in team PVP is HEALING, utility, and burst. With that said a healing sage is the best pvp class/spec combo in the game hands down. Sure a balance sage has some utility but their burst is non exhistant and their healing is weak..

 

So fix your spec as a sage and stop whining.. Yes I am a pvp'r, I pvp only... The only PVE I do is the class quests and none else. I have a BM Scoundrel, a lvl 40 (healing Sage), and a Jedi Guardian.. The healing Sage is easily the best of the 3 and makes the most difference in any pvp encounter.

[Audenlol]

So you saw the sorcs doing crazy amount of burst one someone?That was probably 11k lvl 50 ,now imagine what would marauder/jugger dps/bh/ia would do to that guy...

 

We would get CC'ed or knocked down 3 lvls, or knocked back into a fire, or knocked back into the slime.

 

 

 

Sorcs have such an OP spec they can run, it is truly jawdropping that most cant figure it out.

 

 

Mage class regardless of what they are called in said mmo will whine tho.. the most.... that is a fact (remember wow had a mage union lol).

 

 

So bascially, just baseless qq'ing by an op class who happened to get assisted on repeatedly in a few wzs because .. dun dun dun.. they are a big threat.

[Sylvarine]

Well stated, i know exactly what you mean. 1v1 duels are a fail against equally geared opponents outside of the classes you mentioned. However, in a non-healing support role you can basically guarentee a kill since no one can escape you. Imo this balances the lack of 1v1 effectiveness. How broken would it be to be able to outdamage any class while making it impossible for them to escape?

 

Imo they need to break the hybrid build by making the insta-cast channeled ability higher in the balance tree and hit the healing tree over and over with the nerf bat in pvp. As is, a bm healer is virtually unkillable in a 1v1 by most classes. Jack up the in-pvp combat healing penalty so stuff doesn't get messed up in PvE.

 

If you think a BM geared sorc is unkillable, lol at you. I can see that with maybe a merc/vanguard given their insane survivability, but definately not a sorc. Best thing a healing sorc can do is run away. I say put a 30% penalty on your dps in pvp and see how you like it. F34king newbs on these forums is astounding.

[Altsein]

poor sorcs/sages, they must be terrible because hardly anyone pays them, it's like every 5 or 6 warzones that i even see another sorc/sage......they are that bad!

 

imo sorcs/sages need buffs across the board:

- bubble absorption increased from 3.5 k to 5k so we have a little bit better survivability.

- project & telekenetic throw (and the sorc equivalents) need their dmg increased probably 2 fold and the cd needs to be reduced by 50%, so we have much better single target dps.

- our base heal needs a 50% buff too so we can stand a chance when those PT's come at us.

 

our aoe dmg seems fine and so does our aoe heals.

 

Do you want an invincibility as well to go with those other requests there? lol What a joke those Sage/Imps are.

[Audenlol]

If you think a BM geared sorc is unkillable, lol at you. I can see that with maybe a merc/vanguard given their insane survivability, but definately not a sorc. Best thing a healing sorc can do is run away . I say put a 30% penalty on your dps in pvp and see how you like it. F34king newbs on these forums is astounding.

 

 

Run away to group members that will zerg anyone that tries to persue..

 

yeah thats terrible.

[Trisma]

So everytime I see someone looking for more sorcs for their wz premades it's not because sorcs are OP, it's actually an act of charity because sorcs have it so rough?

 

I guess alot of sorcs must be very self loathing, seeing as despite their severe pvp disadvantages, its not uncommon for 2/3 of a wz team to be sorcs/sages.

 

And I suppose my guildies stats on wz wins were just an uncanny string of coincidences, since in 1000+ warzones played the team with the most sorcs/sages is winning 77% of the time.

 

I'm sorry you guys are so underpowered.

 

Sure, in 1v1 you beat Juggernauts, marauders, operatives, snipers, assassins and mercenaries. Sure, when in group vs group combat your dps/healing only increases with aoe's.

But how dare those powertechs beat you! Don't they know you're the weakest class in the game?? That's not a very honorable way to play! Who do powertechs think they are killing the class they were designed to beat in pvp.

 

You've won me over sorcs, you need some serious buffs.

Maybe make force speed permanent? Naw that wouldn't work since warriors will just charge right to you anyways, and it's not like you guys have a knockback and slow, like some kind of slow that did damage as you channelled it. Cause if you had something like that you could burn the warrior down while he walked to you.

 

And you are far too squishy. It's not enough that you have some of the highest dps in the game, you need to be able to mitigate damage as well.

Perhaps some kind of preemptive heal that increases your effective total health, that worked like a shield which absorbed the damage. Hmm even then I don't know if it will make up for the 5% less damage mitigation you have compared to medium armour.

 

I think Linkin Park needs to write a song about how hard it is being a sorc and how nobody else understands you :'(

[Seurot]

This may come off as a rant, but whatever.

 

Ok here are a bunch of facts about sages/sorcs. This is coming from someone who was gladiator multiple seasons in WoW. You don't have to like the game to know that means I have a skillset that roughly transfers to this game.

 

The game is really really rocky for Sages in PVP (dps sages). Against a geared opponent a sage should lose a 1v1 vs every class that knows what they are doing. The two exceptions seem to be Snipers/gunslingers (abuse LoS) and Mercs/Troopers that spam tracer missile because they apparenty universally don't know how to fake cast (interupt tracer missile and they don't know what to do).

 

I cannot explain to you how frustrating this game gets when I have a BM pyro powertech on me. My tele throw hits them for ~350 per tick ( I am not saying it hits like this on all classes) and I am in a mix of BM and Champ gear. On the other hand the Powertech can chain crit me for 4200-5k with rail shots with other skills like rocket punch critting me for 3k+. I am forced to cc and sprint away in almost every situation. Our single target dps seems to be terrible considering we have to stay mobile and kite or we will get steamrolled. The biggest problem in my mind causing this is the hybrid spec. The AOE dmg completely inflates our stats, and when you also consider we are almost always in combat casting our damage is actually low.

 

The solution in my mind would have to be to buff top tier of tele and balance and break the hybrid spec. Additionally powertech pyro burst damage needs to be addressed

 

Below is from a WZ today. You might think they are fake numbers but any sage that has faced geared BHs can confirm that the same happens to them.

4600, 3400, 4400, + 1-2k in dots. There are three powertechs I face on my server almost all the time that are able to do that to me in probably 3 seconds in almost all of our encounters. For the record I can to 2k in response. If I am lucky and have a pom proc I can do maybe ~4k. My only choice is to force lift and run and hope others target him.

 

Before you comment:

If you are sub 50 you're opinion doesn't really matter. Everyone knows casters are the least gear dependent so of course you have a problem with sages/sorcs.

 

I don't care about your screenshot of a sorc doing 700k in a warzone. That's almost all AOE damage.

 

Pyrotechs can burst anyone...thats not a sage issue.

 

And majority of the complaints is not about sage/sorc dps. Its about how your class is so OP in Huttball which is 90% of pvp these days. Multiple sage/sorcs who are not idiots are almost impossible to stop from scoring.

[razordaman]

Shut up Sorcs are oped quit lying not enough hps rofl.

[Altsein]

So everytime I see someone looking for more sorcs for their wz premades it's not because sorcs are OP, it's actually an act of charity because sorcs have it so rough?

 

I guess alot of sorcs must be very self loathing, seeing as despite their severe pvp disadvantages, its not uncommon for 2/3 of a wz team to be sorcs/sages.

 

And I suppose my guildies stats on wz wins were just an uncanny string of coincidences, since in 1000+ warzones played the team with the most sorcs/sages is winning 77% of the time.

 

I'm sorry you guys are so underpowered.

 

Sure, in 1v1 you beat Juggernauts, marauders, operatives, snipers, assassins and mercenaries. Sure, when in group vs group combat your dps/healing only increases with aoe's.

But how dare those powertechs beat you! Don't they know you're the weakest class in the game?? That's not a very honorable way to play! Who do powertechs think they are killing the class they were designed to beat in pvp.

 

You've won me over sorcs, you need some serious buffs.

Maybe make force speed permanent? Naw that wouldn't work since warriors will just charge right to you anyways, and it's not like you guys have a knockback and slow, like some kind of slow that did damage as you channelled it. Cause if you had something like that you could burn the warrior down while he walked to you.

 

And you are far too squishy. It's not enough that you have some of the highest dps in the game, you need to be able to mitigate damage as well.

Perhaps some kind of preemptive heal that increases your effective total health, that worked like a shield which absorbed the damage. Hmm even then I don't know if it will make up for the 5% less damage mitigation you have compared to medium armour.

 

I think Linkin Park needs to write a song about how hard it is being a sorc and how nobody else understands you :'(

 

Close topic x/ This guy is my hero.

[vimm]

Can you tell me more about your accomplishments in WoW?

[GrandMike]

So everytime I see someone looking for more sorcs for their wz premades it's not because sorcs are OP, it's actually an act of charity because sorcs have it so rough?

 

I guess alot of sorcs must be very self loathing, seeing as despite their severe pvp disadvantages, its not uncommon for 2/3 of a wz team to be sorcs/sages.

 

And I suppose my guildies stats on wz wins were just an uncanny string of coincidences, since in 1000+ warzones played the team with the most sorcs/sages is winning 77% of the time.

 

I'm sorry you guys are so underpowered.

 

Sure, in 1v1 you beat Juggernauts, marauders, operatives, snipers, assassins and mercenaries. Sure, when in group vs group combat your dps/healing only increases with aoe's.

But how dare those powertechs beat you! Don't they know you're the weakest class in the game?? That's not a very honorable way to play! Who do powertechs think they are killing the class they were designed to beat in pvp.

 

You've won me over sorcs, you need some serious buffs.

Maybe make force speed permanent? Naw that wouldn't work since warriors will just charge right to you anyways, and it's not like you guys have a knockback and slow, like some kind of slow that did damage as you channelled it. Cause if you had something like that you could burn the warrior down while he walked to you.

 

And you are far too squishy. It's not enough that you have some of the highest dps in the game, you need to be able to mitigate damage as well.

Perhaps some kind of preemptive heal that increases your effective total health, that worked like a shield which absorbed the damage. Hmm even then I don't know if it will make up for the 5% less damage mitigation you have compared to medium armour.

 

I think Linkin Park needs to write a song about how hard it is being a sorc and how nobody else understands you :'(

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

You win troll award of the day.

 

Sorcs (and sages, its funny but we do a lot of rep huttball) run away from my scoundrel like...well...imagine something running away from something else really fast.

 

In fact sorcs run from everything xept Mercs/Troopers, poor chaps dont have interrupt and since they seem to have only tracer missile quickslotted....yeah.

 

Sorc is the weakes 1vs1 class. It loses to pretty much everything.

 

They fall so fast that they have NO other option than running away. But that usually only prolongs inevitable.

 

Every PvPer thats worth something and played a sorc/sage has shelved it and rolled something actually worth of high-end PvP. Guess you are not there yet. Guess pwning terribads is more fun to you and your guild

Edited March 9, 2012 by GrandMike

[BiggDirty]

So everytime I see someone looking for more sorcs for their wz premades it's not because sorcs are OP, it's actually an act of charity because sorcs have it so rough?

 

I guess alot of sorcs must be very self loathing, seeing as despite their severe pvp disadvantages, its not uncommon for 2/3 of a wz team to be sorcs/sages.

 

And I suppose my guildies stats on wz wins were just an uncanny string of coincidences, since in 1000+ warzones played the team with the most sorcs/sages is winning 77% of the time.

 

I'm sorry you guys are so underpowered.

 

Sure, in 1v1 you beat Juggernauts, marauders, operatives, snipers, assassins and mercenaries. Sure, when in group vs group combat your dps/healing only increases with aoe's.

But how dare those powertechs beat you! Don't they know you're the weakest class in the game?? That's not a very honorable way to play! Who do powertechs think they are killing the class they were designed to beat in pvp.

 

You've won me over sorcs, you need some serious buffs.

Maybe make force speed permanent? Naw that wouldn't work since warriors will just charge right to you anyways, and it's not like you guys have a knockback and slow, like some kind of slow that did damage as you channelled it. Cause if you had something like that you could burn the warrior down while he walked to you.

 

And you are far too squishy. It's not enough that you have some of the highest dps in the game, you need to be able to mitigate damage as well.

Perhaps some kind of preemptive heal that increases your effective total health, that worked like a shield which absorbed the damage. Hmm even then I don't know if it will make up for the 5% less damage mitigation you have compared to medium armour.

 

I think Linkin Park needs to write a song about how hard it is being a sorc and how nobody else understands you :'(

 

Nice troll, nearly everything you said is completely false.

 

Sorcs are balanced, they don't need a nerf, or a buff. Any good player knows this, it's only the scrubs who just hit 50 yesterday who think like you do.

 

I rarely see more than 3 sorcs in a wz, and if I do, I jump for joy because that means 3 free kills every time they come near me.

 

Sorc dps is the lowest of all damage dealers and that is an indisputable fact that can be proven easily.

 

Burn a marauder down as he walks towards you? lol I didn't know marauders only had 4k health. You can tickle him as he walks towards you, and when he gets to you, prepare to lose 20k in the next 8 seconds.

 

The team with the most sorcs wins 77% of the time? Impressive how you just pulled that statistic straight from your rear end. I would wager that it's actually opposite. Like I said, when I see multiple sorcs on the enemy team, I know that we're going to win, because those are quick and easy kills for my DPS, and easy damage to heal through for my healers.

 

Sorcs beat every class 1v1 except Powertechs? That statement could not be more wrong. The only class we can beat 1v1 is snipers, and *maybe* mercenaries, and that is ONLY when there is a pillar nearby. In open world pvp, we have 0% chance against every other class because they can simply stand there and out DPS us.

 

The sentiment of your post is correct, sorcs are fine and definitely don't need a buff. But you should try not to pull facts out of thin air to support your point.

[Xietep]

If you really think your class is bad, really, try playing a Sniper or Op.

 

Stop whining. Sorcs have it good.

 

Ops??? You're going to bring ops into this?

 

A good op can kill me (in BM/champ gear) before I even have a chance to move. They can somehow stun me with full resolve, root, inturrupt, etc.

 

Snipers have the highest burst in the game right now, so.... what was your point again?

[Boyana]

Truth is, the only class that I can easily outheal is Sorcerer. Every other class can shred me into peaces in 10-15 seconds.

 

This is coming from a Sorcerer healer, so yeah...their damage is not even close to damage other classes are doing. Actually, I don't see them as a threat at all.

 

I am talking here about 1vs1. Damage at the end of WarZone (ahm, Voidstar) means people were running into their aoe instead of my aoe heal XD!

 

- - -

 

+ in a duel with Sorcerer I can actually win. Damage is low and I can outheal it. When they try to cast their heal, I interrupt them.

I am not sure why and WHO was the first person that cried for Sorcer nerf. Might be some lowbie in Huttball because Sorcerers do look OP on lower levels...only.

[vimm]

Womp womp... Edited April 7, 2012 by vimm

[therouterninja]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorcs aren't meant to be 1v1 classes, you have aoe damage and healing that allows you to top the boards. It would be just silly if they had the highest dps numbers, highest healing numbers, and could solo everyone...

[therouterninja]

Ops??? You're going to bring ops into this?

 

A good op can kill me (in BM/champ gear) before I even have a chance to move. They can somehow stun me with full resolve, root, inturrupt, etc.

 

Snipers have the highest burst in the game right now, so.... what was your point again?

 

Resolve works fine, this coming from a vl70 scoundrel. I've tested it enough on people to know I can't stun anyone with full resolve. If you're getting killed before you can move, your trinket's down, your bubbles down, you're not knocking them down when you get up, your run is down, you have no stun, and you have no team mates around. Plus they popped a relic and quaffed a potion. Not sure how often this happens, but I fear scoundrels the least of any class these days, and usually only get killed by them when I was going to die anyways.

 

Also root/interrupt ignores resolve, but i'm guessing you already knew that.

 

Snipers have great burst true, but no mobility. They're annoying, but it's a free kill with my scoundrel, and other classes can just LOS them.