PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Cindikle]

So. To paraphrase : "If you had any skill you would do things my way. If you don't agree with me than you are a total loser."

 

Ya ... that's the attitude we are talking about.

 

Thank you for proving my point.

 

So if you met a merc that did nothing but spam tracer missile and was spec'ed all wrong in their trees(although you can't inspect that currently). You'd leave him be? And yes I do mean the word wrong.

 

Or a marauder who spec'ed half way up rage for the big hitting smash, which they wouldn't have force crush for. Then spec'ed the rest into anni for dot buffs. Which both trees are revolved around two completely different stances. You wouldn't try to help that person understand how they could improve?

 

Rephrase all you want. I'll even shorten it for you: "Here's a way to improve your dps."

Twisting words to sound negative is fun. Are you a lawyer?

[Starglide]

I can guarantee that once the file that saves the encounter data is analysed there will be a 'tool' that parses said info for GL to use when it's released. Hell, I'll even make one myself. It's not that hard.

 

So NO from me too for the same reasons, oh and "vote posts" are pointless. If you want a discussion, make a post and let it lie. There is never a need for unofficial polls.

 

No there won't be. The log will only show what has happened to you. Read the OP if you are concerned with discussion and don't open discussion on the poll if you feel its pointless. Developers do look at polls, it is proven. If enough vote for something, they will prioritize it. Just like they did with character responsiveness.

[Drewser]

itseems like a fine analogy.

 

If you're playing sports/games solely for recreation and are not there to be coached but simply enjoy yourself... then you shouldn't join a team where people don't want to play that way.

 

There's nothing wrong with designing the game to accommodate both you and the guy who wants to be able to coach his team and be competitive.

 

Which is why a toggle is a perfectly fine solution for both groups.

 

Again, our guild is going to use the logs so I am not in the group not 'sharing' them.

[WildbloodX]

We need combat log to show:

1. Who Ganked me while I was questing

2. Who sucks most in the group

3. Why do I suck the most in my group

4. Why do we all suck so bad on the raid

5. Why is this boss hitting so hard

6. What the hell was that?>!

7. What was the name of that ninja

8. When will that boss crush us with his euber power shot

9. How many mobs did we have on us

10. All the other MMOs do it

 

There you go the top ten on why we need a combat log.

[Blotter]

To me the best solution is a toggle that allows people to share their info if they want but it is not compulsory.

 

That would instantaneously turn it into something compulsory. The only way to prevent it from being a tool for establishing false social heirarchy and pecking order and resulting in judgmental BS is to make it unavailable as a choice. Otherwise, 'dude won't share his combat logs, put him on the black list" will be the new version of spamming general or guild chat about someone's sucky numbers and creating the underground black list.

[Wyomorph]

I thought you werent talking about add-ons Starglide...please read your own OP.

 

...and "tone" does come across in text...writers and english teachers call it "voice", it is one of the 6-traits of writing.

 

Like someone else said earlier, there are certain people who make others NOT want these meters...several have posted above...including your comment about not being competitive enough to play this game if you don't want the meters. I personally believe that lacked class, and showed you are one of those players people are talking about.

 

Anyways, I'll be done here. Enjoy the "poll" you started...though you clearly aren't caring about actual votes as much as about you are about trying to lobby for your cause.

[Galbatorrix]

This.

 

You protesters need to see the flip side of things.

 

 

I know the flip side. I love the flip side. Again, if used correctly, DPS meters are awesome. The problem is, you can't stop people from abusing them and even if I'm top DPS, I don't want # 2 on the list blasting #7 the whole time. It annoys me and ruins the run for everyone.

[ferroz]

Yeah and guns don't kill people, people kill people, why not force everyone to have a gun.

It works for the swiss, eh?

 

That's not an accurate analogy though; noone wants to force anyone to have a combat log; they just want their own combat log to include everything around them...

 

A better analogy: Some people are fine with only having a hand saw; some people would prefer to have a saw bench. The first group thinks it's ok to restrict the latter group to only having a hand saw because it's good enough for them and because people can get hurt using a table saw..

 

A self only combat log helps the ones who want to improve themselves but doesn't give any extra ammo to a "griefer player".

Neither does a full combat log...

[WereMops]

No there won't be. The log will only show what has happened to you. Read the OP if you are concerned with discussion and don't open discussion on the poll if you feel its pointless. Developers do look at polls, it is proven. If enough vote for something, they will prioritize it. Just like they did with character responsiveness.

 

If you want people to vote on the poll you probably should fix the link, right now it doesn't allow you to vote since it sends you directly to the result page, you need to loose everything after the f28b part, ie http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b is the correct address.

[DaxRendar]

If your doing less dps than the tank he has a legitimate reason to complain , you mistake complaining for griefing . Its not hard to obtain gear in wow , not hard at all , its even harder to do less damage than the tank . The older I get I find the most valuable asset is time , its not fair to the ones that put in the work to have there time wasted by the ones that didn't / don't care .

 

So if you suck and you get called out on it , its now considered griefing , unbelievable .

 

And you are a "Poster Child" for why BW is doing the right thing

 

If you really know WoW mechanics, you would know that (especially up until the recent nerf) Tanks had excellent DPS (especially burst-AoE DPS) when over-geared and in the easier Heroics. If you had read that guy's post, he was specifically referring to situations where the Tank is "Epic'ed Out" and there's a new 85 gearing up. You are a perfect example of how many people are completely clueless when it comes to knowing how to correctly interpret the data they are presented with, and why giving everybody that information isn't a good thing.

 

"Competitive" Guilds will require Logs on their runs. Guilds that are struggling on content can (if they choose) gather parses for analysis. Theorycrafters and Optimization Freaks will go nuts beating up Target Dummies to create "optimal" rotations (that can hardly ever be used because of fight mechanics). Some bugs will be identified and forwarded for fixing. People will argue over classes having theoretical "Max DPS" differences of fractions of a percentage point, and in the meantime people will be able to run "Story Mode" Ops without constant and annoying "Meter Spam" and all will be good in the world.

[Blotter]

We need combat log to show:

1. Who Ganked me while I was questing

2. Who sucks most in the group

3. Why do I suck the most in my group

4. Why do we all suck so bad on the raid

5. Why is this boss hitting so hard

6. What the hell was that?>!

7. What was the name of that ninja

8. When will that boss crush us with his euber power shot

9. How many mobs did we have on us

10. All the other MMOs do it

 

There you go the top ten on why we need a combat log.

 

You forgot "Who melted my face in WZs and why that's so unfair and OP...nerf him immediately...here check out my screenshot as proof."

Edited March 6, 2012 by Blotter

[Drewser]

 

The list goes on. How can you dispute what I am saying and/or state my tone suggests I want to yell at players? With statements like yours it is hard for me NOT to assume you have no idea what you are talking about. Whether or not you agree with logs or not.

 

Because of lines like I quoted.

[ferroz]

You forgot "Who melted my face in WZs and why that's so unfair and OP...nerf him immediately...here check out my screenshot as proof."

Nah, I don't think that fits on the top 10.

 

No there won't be. The log will only show what has happened to you.

Actually... that's not what was said. A lot of people are speculating that this is the case, but that's all it is at the moment.

 

certainly, if you have strong feelings about it you should speak up.

Edited March 6, 2012 by ferroz

[Kesherao]

I voted yes, because I'm not a wow-phobic carebear nub gimp with reverted ********s and because dps wars give me motivation/satisfaction when playing a dps class. Strangely, but moving out of fire gives me less joy. Unless we can turn this into some sort of competition, who moves out of most fires fastest, then yes, screw combat logs. Edited March 6, 2012 by Kesherao

[Rivethed]

People should be able to see a combat log that shows what is happening in the entire raid/party, not just themselves.

 

Look at my analogy. Its like asking a captain of a team to help other people when he can only see himself play. In anything competitive, a leader is able to view his team and help critique/improve.

 

I am sorry, but if you do not want other people to know what you are doing wrong or help you, then competitive ANYTHING is not for you.

 

I don't understand. If this implementation was executed in ANYTHING ELSE besides a video game, then it would be unacceptable. And don't say it is because you pay to play. BioWare has included a Story Mode just for you.

 

Bro, no one with two brain cells to rub together are fooled by you. You are just another elitist uber-goober wannabe upset because you can't "lol" at other players stats on a dps screen. Go back to WoW.

 

Riv

[RealAeiouy]

Universal combat logs don't make any sense and are a holdover from text MUDs.

 

In a 3d mmog they are silly. Having personal combat logs you can parse outside of game is fine.

[Drewser]

That would instantaneously turn it into something compulsory. The only way to prevent it from being a tool for establishing false social heirarchy and pecking order and resulting in judgmental BS is to make it unavailable as a choice. Otherwise, 'dude won't share his combat logs, put him on the black list" will be the new version of spamming general or guild chat about someone's sucky numbers and creating the underground black list.

 

Same thing will happen now if someone asks to see a recent log. "you want to run this ops with us, Email me a log, I can check out."

[Blotter]

Nah, I don't think that fits on the top 10.

 

You sure? we'll see I supopse. I'm willing to bet that even the release of personal combat logs results in a significant uptickin that kind of whining, but we'll see I suppose.

[Caladax]

Last night in WoW:

 

Heroic Yorsajj 10 man, I'm healing group 2 during purple ooze phase, one of my guys blows up. I was sure that grid showed him having a three stack (not a 4) right before I healed him, and I wondered if the other healer cast a heal on him (he was low health). Check recount, he had no heals from the other healer (or anyone else). I realized it must have been me, and made damn sure to watch it next time, specifically to give time for grid to update before healing again.

 

Combat logs are pretty useful.

 

Another example: 2 of our healers have dps offspecs, and we both gear them up a bit. Recount tells us that I should be the one to dps on heroic ultraxxion.

 

If you've had a bad experience, and been booted for low dps, then either the guy who booted you was a jerk, or, possibly, your dps was very low, and you needed to do some reading about how to improve it. I really don't understand the attitude of wanting to stay under the radar with poor performance. I'm not an elitist, and I like to give people chances to improve and help them to do so, but this preference of ignorance makes no sense to me. Why be in the dark about how you're doing?

 

Also, I like to compete with others (healers or dps). It makes the fights more fun for me. I don't ignore my task to boost myself on the meters, but when I can, I try to win over the others in my group. It's just friendly competition.

 

edit: another example from last night: on heroic zon'ozz' black phase, I go from about 80% health to dead instantly. I'm like, what the hell was that? Check recount, the tentacle spat at me, which it only does when not being tanked. Tank says he'll make sure to be in melee with it the entire phase next time.

 

These examples are all from last night about the usefulness of combat logs (and a good parser).

Edited March 6, 2012 by Caladax

[ferroz]

Same thing will happen now if someone asks to see a recent log. "you want to run this ops with us, Email me a log, I can check out."

There will probably even be an online service where you upload your parses. It will have code in place to look for tampering (combinations of damage numbers that aren't possible, for example) as the theorycrafting gets better.

 

That will give you a parsescore.

 

Then people will ask you to link your parsescrore to get into the op.

[Ganelon]

I voted yes to the standard combat log. There's absolutely no valid reason for an MMO not to have one.

 

Heck, I'd vote yes to real-time in-game parsing capabilities as well.

[Blotter]

Same thing will happen now if someone asks to see a recent log. "you want to run this ops with us, Email me a log, I can check out."

 

Not really. If it's an optional function, then they can complain you won't turn it on and let them see your numbers. Anyone in a video game or online who you don't know that is demanding you provide them with personal information like your email address by emailing them something just to do a pug run would look like a complete and utter maniac. Seriously..."turn on the function" sounds reasonable and lets them claim they're not asking for much...while "send me an email or I won't pug with you" sounds quite unreasonable...creepy even...and would get laughed at.

[Kodosong]

Because WoW invented combat logs and is the only game that has them? Please read my entire post.

 

 

 

 

Dude, I am not talking about addons. Please read the OP.

 

Are you sure WoW invented Combat Logs? I have been playing EQ2 a long time and they have had them as long as I can remember, yes I played and raided in WoW as well.

[RealAeiouy]

By the way fail poll. I went to the link and it said i already voted

[Drewser]

Nah, I don't think that fits on the top 10.

 

Actually... that's not what was said. A lot of people are speculating that this is the case, but that's all it is at the moment.

 

certainly, if you have strong feelings about it you should speak up.

 

You left the other thread where I asked you to produce one quote that stated it would contain data other than about yourself.

 

Everything stated thus far has indicated is about your character.