Classes able to use other class abilities? will this break the game?

[VanorDM]

Did Luke toss out a flame thrower out his rear end in some missing segment of a directors cut or something?

 

He used a blaster pretty exclusively in the first movie, and carried one in the 2nd one. He also used the Force as a X-Wing pilot, with no real Jedi training. Anakin used the Force before he even met a Jedi.

 

The Movie and other EU lore is filled with people using the Force without training.

[farfulnugen]

If the ability is carefully selected....and it can only be used with your companion....and has a long cooldown....I fail to see the point of it? Really, what is the point of this?

 

I'm going to be able to survive without this ability....or I will die without it...I doubt I will find the room on my bars for it...so can someone from bioware please explain the point of this other than for show?

[Cordarn]

I watched the 1.2 trailer and notced a jugg using flamethrower and then saw an operative force choking? This is dangerous territory Bioware is crossing. I dont know about you but the minute I see a Jedi Sage shooting Lightning or a Jedi Sentinal force choking someone, I am sure people will claim the game broken because it will render the question, " Why play a class when one class can do it all." I can't be the only one that feels this way. What are you're thoughts and please don't troll, constructive feedback only please.

 

Example, your grandfather was a sith/jedi, and you never new it. You are in a tight corner with absolutely nothing for an option with adrenaline up to your head. Suddenly you get a burst of power, and slaughter everything, and then it feels like nothing happened.

[Verloc_Krieg]

If the ability is carefully selected....and it can only be used with your companion....and has a long cooldown....I fail to see the point of it? Really, what is the point of this?

 

I'm going to be able to survive without this ability....or I will die without it...I doubt I will find the room on my bars for it...so can someone from bioware please explain the point of this other than for show?

 

Its just a cool non-mandatory feature. Just for fun/rp reasons. You dont have to do it and wont likely have a penalty either. Just for customization. i dont get what all the fuss is about

[farfulnugen]

Well, in regards to the legacy system, most of it (there a couple of exceptions) seem pretty much fluff. It's for RP purposes and leveling alts. That's fine and all but it really does not offer anything to work towards for end game that's meaningful (play-wise, not RP wise).

 

I don't think the ability is OP and it's great the RP people are getting something. But what about those people who don't RP? What do they get that will be actually exciting and interesting to work towards?

[Deewe]

The Heroic Ability Legacy unlock doesn't allow you to pick any ability you like; that would indeed lead to some balancing nightmares.

 

There was very careful consideration over which abilities to allow as unlocks. With the limitations of the ability only being usable during your Heroic Moment (requiring an active Companion) and the cooldown on that, you shouldn't see too much 'Heroic Ability spam'. We see the unlock as a fun, limited ability that many players will enjoy. It wasn't designed to unbalance the game.

Hello Stephen,

 

IMHO a fun game play isn't enough to justify its implementation. It needs to fit the game as a whole.

 

Thing is SWTOR is based on 4 pillar, one being story. TOR also has a major core design: iconic classes.

 

For now skills and buffs are one of the main difference between classes. If you allow specific skills to be used by other classes you are removing some of their uniqueness in the process. By the way removing a cool factor from these classes. This even if the usage of such skills is very limited.

 

Then lore and story wise, it's not really that great to have many non force users having force powers. A good writer can certainly come up with an insanely cool story of how such smuggler gained the power to use force lightning. But as a whole it looks weird. Similarly others non force skills won't feel that much appealing if you "offer" them to other classes.

 

Now would the game have been developed around less iconic classes like SWG, in which a force user can also have BH skills, then it would have worked. But this isn't the same game. Blending skills from one class to the other, once again even very limited, does't works.

 

BTW if you keep doing so then you're going to have a hard time saying no to AC respec, being supposedly specific classes, when totally opposed classes can have some of their most iconic skills.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Deewe

[FrostyDroid]

If the ability is carefully selected....and it can only be used with your companion....and has a long cooldown....I fail to see the point of it? Really, what is the point of this?

 

Roleplay. You want to play a BH who started out as a jedi? Now you can. You want to play a pragmatic Sith Warrior who likes to trust the Force and the Flamethrower built into his armour? You have the option.

 

I'm going to be able to survive without this ability....or I will die without it...I doubt I will find the room on my bars for it...so can someone from bioware please explain the point of this other than for show?

 

Show is exactly what it's for. No Legacy stuff is supposed to offer significant gameplay advantages.

[Oobro]

Hmm, when a jedi/sith, strong with the force, gets a baby, it wouldn't be strange for it to be Force-sensitive right? I mean, we see it in all movies.

But what when the kid decides not to become a jedi, but a trooper, smuggler, bounty hunter or agent. That doesn't mean he can not use some small force does it?

 

It isn't as far from the lore as people might think.

 

Add to that: you don't need to pick the force abilities and the usage will be low due the specific circumstances it can be used and the CD.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Oobro

[iceperson]

Hello Stephen,

 

IMHO a fun game play isn't enough to justify its implementation. It needs to fit the game as a whole.

 

Thing is SWTOR is based on 4 pillar, one being story. TOR also has a major core design: iconic classes.

 

For now skills and buffs are one of the main difference between classes. If you allow specific skills to be used by other classes you are removing some of their uniqueness in the process. By the way removing a cool factor from these classes. This even if the usage of such skills is very limited.

 

Then lore and story wise, it's not really that great to have many non force users having force powers. A good writer can certainly come up with an insanely cool story of how such smuggler gained the power to use force lightning. But as a whole it looks weird. Similarly others non force skills won't feel that much appealing if you "offer" them to other classes.

 

Now would the game have been developed around less iconic classes like SWG in which a force user can also have BH skills then it would have worked. But this isn't the same game. Blending skills from one class to the other, once again even very limited, does't work.

 

BTW if you keep doing so then you're going to have a hard time saying no to AC respec, being supposedly specific classes, when totally opposed classes can have some of their most iconic skills.

 

i disagree. i'd say why, but i don't really need to because it's not up for discussion is it? i win

[Deewe]

i disagree. i'd say why, but i don't really need to because it's not up for discussion is it? i win

IMHO in the end we all loose because it doesn't improve the game and it makes each classes less epic.

[Archaegeo]

Why are you crying over this? It wont even make it onto my bar.

 

It is an ability you can use once every 20 min in pve only (or world pvp sure, but still once every 20 min)

 

That is so pointsless as to be unusuable save on single boss fights maybe, and even then it has to do something for you that is worth dropping some other ability from your rotation.

[Deewe]

Why are you crying over this? It wont even make it onto my bar.

 

It is an ability you can use once every 20 min in pve only (or world pvp sure, but still once every 20 min)

 

That is so pointsless as to be unusuable save on single boss fights maybe, and even then it has to do something for you that is worth dropping some other ability from your rotation.

Good point, still the main issue is more about the trend of the game: blending classes, reusing assets too much, butchering the lore, removing the uniqueness out of the classes.

 

It's about the little details that differentiates a fair game from a good one, in the long term.

[Quintan]

No it wont kill a game that's already on it's death bed...

 

GW2 Devs, I'm counting on you!

Edited March 10, 2012 by Quintan

[Saos]

Hmm, when a jedi/sith, strong with the force, gets a baby, it wouldn't be strange for it to be Force-sensitive right? I mean, we see it in all movies.

But what when the kid decides not to become a jedi, but a trooper, smuggler, bounty hunter or agent. That doesn't mean he can not use some small force does it?

 

It isn't as far from the lore as people might think.

 

Add to that: you don't need to pick the force abilities and the usage will be low due the specific circumstances it can be used and the CD.

 

According to Bioware's own lore in-game, the Empire forces ALL Force Sensitives (regardless of strength) to go to Korriban for training as Sith, otherwise they are executed.

 

Bioware added that into the game. Now every third BH or Agent seen is going to be Force Sensitive to the point of throwing around Force Choke/Lightning like its nothing?

 

We wont even go into the fact that these are supposed to be exclusive abilities for powerful Force Users who would have had to spend years perfecting the ability into a viable offensive tool. Now its just *poof* "All right! My Agent can now throw lightning bolts!"

 

It's utterly pointless to put in the game, so WHY even bother then when the RP/Lore enthusiasts of the community generally recognize what a poor idea it is?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Saos

[Heith]

the old republic is biowares way of trolling star wars fans

[Quintan]

I have to say that it is very hard to tell where swtor is headed.

 

Imo the good things this game offers are being overshadowed by the horrible decissions being made even while old failures still exist and get no attention.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Quintan

[ErnieVega]

I feel like people are really blowing this feature out of proportion... its just meant to be a fun/cool thing for people to utilize if they like it, similar to the racial social abilities.

 

The ability is on a 15 minute cooldown, and can only be used while you have an active companion... So it can really only be used while leveling, and only assuming you do not have a full group... so not in heroic 4 areas, warzones, flashpoints, operations, or pvp.

 

I think it is a cool feature, but its hardly worth getting worked up over in either direction.

[Quintan]

I feel like people are really blowing this feature out of proportion... its just meant to be a fun/cool thing for people to utilize if they like it, similar to the racial social abilities.

 

The ability is on a 15 minute cooldown, and can only be used while you have an active companion... So it can really only be used while leveling, and only assuming you do not have a full group... so not in heroic 4 areas, warzones, flashpoints, operations, or pvp.

 

I think it is a cool feature, but its hardly worth getting worked up over in either direction.

 

it's not just this feature, they act like every little thing other MMOs have is this huge deal that they can't just work out right away.

 

Give me a break they have millions and millions.

[Laughing_Wolf]

Sorry for the split quote, but you made several excellent points in need of argument.

 

According to Bioware's own lore in-game, the Empire forces ALL Force Sensitives (regardless of strength) to go to Korriban for training as Sith, otherwise they are executed.

 

I would suggest you play an Imperial Agent or Bounty Hunter, at least to Hutta. There is an early quest there where this example is shown to be not quite so black and white as you've painted it.

 

Universals ("all", "none", "always", "never") are bad, mmkay? They're almost never true. (See what I did there?)

 

Bioware added that into the game. Now every third BH or Agent seen is going to be Force Sensitive to the point of throwing around Force Choke/Lightning like its nothing?

 

I would hope you meant every third "player-controlled" BH or Agent, there. Because, otherwise, I would expect you to have counted all the NPCs that are BH's or Agents. They're part of the SW population, too. And even beyond that, you would have to estimate how many BH's and Agents there are in the universe that haven't been added visibly into the world.

 

If you're going to cry out that X percentage of the population is now unique, you'd better be including the entire population, and not just what you can see. Otherwise, I could easily say that every third SWTOR player is a whining git who can't see past his own idea of the expanded universe. But that would be unfair and unrealistic, because there are so many SWTOR players just happily playing the game without complaint.

 

We wont even go into the fact that these are supposed to be exclusive abilities for powerful Force Users who would have had to spend years perfecting the ability into a viable offensive tool. Now its just *poof* "All right! My Agent can now throw lightning bolts!"

 

Adding to my argument above, the player-controlled Agents are special among the population of Agents. Only one out of the thousands or millions (or more! anyone know an accurate estimate how many people are in the entire SW universe? Anyone?) Imperial Agents in the SWTOR universe is played by me. That alone makes it special. How I choose to express that character's specialness then becomes my responsibility.

 

And that leads to my biggest complaint about the biggest complaint in this thread. Blame the player, not the tools. If you're worried that Darth Jocular is now going to emote farting a flamethrower out of his dairy air, then whose fault is that? BW didn't give him that ability and say, "Lo! Once per day, you must fart epic flamey dooms!" No, that player is choosing to use a tool inappropriately.

 

For every one of those supposed RPers I see (and, usually, subsequently ignore), I see a half dozen putting these options to excellent use. We've already seen a couple great examples in this thread. If a carpenter throws a hammer at you, blame the carpenter, not the hammer.

 

It's utterly pointless to put in the game, so WHY even bother then when the RP/Lore enthusiasts of the community generally recognize what a poor idea it is?

 

And this is the line that prompted me to actually enter my security code. (Seriously, that has been the number one best way of keeping me from raging at jawas on these forums.)

 

Please don't speak for all of us. I am an RP enthusiast. I support the idea of having a bigger toolkit with which to express my character. Do I need them? No, if I want my Agent to be Force sensitive, I'll emote that with or without Legacy unlocks. The Legacy unlocks just add a bit of in-game support and flavor to my story. Thus, I do not recognize this as a bad idea. I recognize that it may allow bad RPers to express their bad RP more easily, but then, they were already bad RPers, weren't they? Carpenter and hammer, man. Learn who to blame.

 

And although I'm not a lore enthusiast, ermm... yeah. They're not exactly all clamoring on top of this as a poor idea, either, are they? Unless you only read certain posts in this thread. (Then, you're the carpenter throwing a hammer at yourself; you have only you to blame.) No, there are very intelligent and well-reasoned posts describing how this does not destroy the lore. It really doesn't seem to do much of anything to either enhance or destroy it.

 

Stop speaking for other people.

[Invictos]

If you're going to cry out that X percentage of the population is now unique, you'd better be including the entire population, and not just what you can see. Otherwise, I could easily say that every third SWTOR player is a whining git who can't see past his own idea of the expanded universe. But that would be unfair and unrealistic, because there are so many SWTOR players just happily playing the game without complaint.

 

[snipped for brevity]

 

And that leads to my biggest complaint about the biggest complaint in this thread. Blame the player, not the tools. If you're worried that Darth Jocular is now going to emote farting a flamethrower out of his dairy air, then whose fault is that? BW didn't give him that ability and say, "Lo! Once per day, you must fart epic flamey dooms!" No, that player is choosing to use a tool inappropriately.

 

Well said.

 

Personally, I can't see myself using the Legacy cross-class-abilities feature. Even if I wanted to play a force-sensitive Bounty Hunter or a Jedi with a flamethrower fetish, the idea that I'd hotkey an attack that can only be used once per 20 minutes and only in solo PvE just doesn't rate.

 

So I'll exercise my right not to use the abilities in question. No big deal. They're fluff abilities, scarcely more than combat-usable emotes. Bioware is not saying that every Bounty Hunter is force sensitive; they're saying that you have the option of playing a Bounty Hunter as if he were related to your Jedi alt (and consequently, as if he's force sensitive).

 

In case anyone missed it, you also have the option not to use the Legacy surname feature if you don't want your alts to be members of the same family. This is no different. The whining on this issue is silly, and I'm saying that as someone who has almost zero personal interest in the upcoming Legacy system.

[Gohlar]

Quoted from link below

"A Bounty Hunter won't suddenly turn into a Force-wielding super user. Every class has a heroic moment ability which requires the presence of a companion to activate. Only by using these heroic moment abilities will you be able to access the cross-class Legacy abilities. That essentially means you can only use the abilities out in the questing world; they're locked out when you're in a full group or in a PvP Warzone. "

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219843p1.html

 

What a complete waste of time...

[antiviolence]

There is definitely someone out there with something to say

[NogFizzbin]

Sounds like a fun feature.

[Verloc_Krieg]

Im looking forward to the feature

[NerezzaSage]

There was very careful consideration over which abilities to allow as unlocks. With the limitations of the ability only being usable during your Heroic Moment (requiring an active Companion) and the cooldown on that, you shouldn't see too much 'Heroic Ability spam'. We see the unlock as a fun, limited ability that many players will enjoy. It wasn't designed to unbalance the game.

 

You're kidding me.

 

So, I have been looking forward to this feature as it added some needed customizability. (Jedi using lightning, pretty darn cool.) But now I hear that you HAVE to have a companion with you and you HAVE TO BLOW that 20 minute cool down to even use it. So this has becoming more of a novelty leveling feature than anything really lasting. Complete ********.