Frostvein Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Perhaps we should wait until the system is implemented, even in PTS form, before condemning it ? The problem with this in my experience is that by the time the system is implemented on the PTS, its too late. Bioware might be different then every other developer, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppup Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Crafting should supplement raiding like it does in WoW, not overtake it for viability. What's wrong with equality? I, for one, do not want to raid for gear anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 What's wrong with equality? I, for one, do not want to raid for gear anymore. You will have too. From what i got now AFTER we raid and get the gear we begin to craft it non stop till we get a crit on it. Well ... guess it is not a bad idea considering how fast people got top tier. Now there is something after it , and lets be honest , even if you dont get this crafted stuff , im pretty sure it the normal top tier is alrdy freaking strong like the rakata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 What's wrong with equality? I, for one, do not want to raid for gear anymore. Therein lies the chicken and the egg argument. The gear needed to down raids drops from said raids. If you aren't doing the raids, then what do you need raid gear for? I'm not saying you shouldn't have decent gear from crafting that you can use to help get into entry level raiding (because you should) but you also really don't need to have the best gear obtainable in game by simply clicking a button and sending a companion out to do things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I can't believe people are complaining about this. If you like raiding, keep at it, it will still be the only way to get the best end game mods (which will pretty undoubtedly remain BoP) All that is changing is that (if you want to, or if you're a minmaxer) you can now put those mods into the highest quality craftable gear for the possibility of an additional stat bonus. Why on earth should raiding be absolutely the only thing required to have the best end game gear, you will still have to do it, it just won't mean you're "done" once you have your gear. Edited March 5, 2012 by SWImara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) You don't understand. Armormech will make the best aim and cunning armor in the game, 7 slots for 2 classes Synthweaving will make the best strength and willpower armor in the game, 7 slots for 2 classes Cybertech will make the best earpieces for everyone of every spec, sometimes 2 for different roles, and 10 ship upgrades for everyone Biochem will make the best implants, 2 slots for everyone, as well as reusable medpacks and stims Artifice will make the best offhands, lightsabers, and relics, so 2 slots for everyone, 1 or 2 slots for most advanced classes Armstech will make the best weapons, 1 or 2 slots for 2 classes Slicing will sell augments, which will be highly valuable post patch, needed in every slot in every piece of gear, as well as discovery missions which will also be in high demand due to the crafting material requirements This is ignoring mods/enhancements/color crystals, as at this point we don't know for certain if crafting skills will be able to make raid comparable drops. Every crafting skill becomes very useful. It's just a matter of what each person chooses to specialize in. This is presuming material costs are comparable to current crafted gear and that they will require raid drops for the level 50 stuff. It also means that players will look exactly the way they want to look. How exactly does this maintain the status quo of biochem being better than every other crafted skill? Edit: And this is just taking information we know. There is more that we don't know that we're all waiting on details for. As far as players looking exactly how they want, that really depends on how many orange items they add to the crafting proffesions. Because all the current orange gear in the game will be useless (pretty much) as it wont have augment slots. So really a character will only beable to customize as much as BW gives us for schematics for say armormech. I dont think they are going to give us like 20 full sets of orange gear or anything like that, but i guess well wait and see. Hue to chest will help as well i guess, as players will beable to make combinations of the different schematics and mix and match to their liking and still have them match color wise. Edited March 5, 2012 by Samborino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I understand the system completely, you missed the point entirely. I know that the materials to make crafting best in slot still require raiding; the problem is that all this adds is a tedious extra factor that artifically extends raid content. One would have to max out a profession, farm X number of drops, luck out on RNG for a critted piece of gear, then rinse and repeat for every piece of gear. Instead of getting direct best in slot loot from the hardest content, we have to grind out professions and mats over and over, artifically extending the lifespan of content. As a 'hardcore' raider, shouldn't you be capping your professions anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I'm always amazed that people demand you show them where noteworthy achievements and goals outside of raiding can be found, then turn around and declare that any kind of noteworthy achievement being added outside of raiding is an insult to them. Edited March 5, 2012 by Syylara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I can't believe people are complaining about this. If you like raiding, keep at it, it will still be the only way to get the best end game mods (which will pretty undoubtedly remain BoP) All that is changing is that (if you want to, or if you're a minmaxer) you can now put those mods into the highest quality craftable gear for the possibility of an additional stat bonus. Why on earth should raiding be absolutely the only thing required to have the best end game gear, you will still have to do it, it just won't mean you're "done" once you have your gear. The thing is they could have made progression alot better by making these armorings with set bonus's drops from raid bosses or commendations instead of just making it so that you can take them out of epic items and pretty much turning any new epics they add into just containers for mods since they wont even be as good as the orange items. The way they are currently planning on adding it doesnt really add any new form of progression beyond crafting which you dont even have to technically be there for , set a few of your companions to craft 1 item and come back a few hours later and youll most likely have the mastercraft version (augment slot). This doesnt extend progression in anyway it something to go alongside it. They should have just made these armorings drops or purchasable from commendation vendors as it wouldnt make the current epic drops completely useless as you would still use them while you were waiting for your armorings (with set bonus's) to drop to put into your orange gear. And you will pretty much be done once you have you gear, all thats left to do is drag drop into the crit crafted orange items. Even if you cant make them yourself they are BOE and you should beable to buy them fairly quickly. So you will be done, it doesnt add anything else unfortunately. They really thought this system through pretty poorly, it would be nice if having a full crit crafted orange set was something special to obtain,and it could be with the system i suggested and not at the expense of making epic items pretty much useless containers for mods. Edited March 5, 2012 by Samborino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabutai Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Getting tired of these posts, please read the OP. The point of this thread is not that crafting will not require raiding, it is that one has to craft in order to get best in slot gear. This is a tedious process of switching professions over and over to get BiS piceces, artifically extended raid content. You do realize that you don't actually have to make the orange gear right? You can, wait for the shocker here, BUY THEM. duh duh dun The only pieces you have to grind make yourself is already in game. Its already a part of what this game is about and hasn't changed with the onset of 1.2. Heck we might even have belts and wrists craftable in orange quality with the new patch. Doomsdayers beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppup Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The gear needed to down raids drops from said raids. If you aren't doing the raids, then what do you need raid gear for? I'm not saying you shouldn't have decent gear from crafting that you can use to help get into entry level raiding (because you should) but you also really don't need to have the best gear obtainable in game by simply clicking a button and sending a companion out to do things. But simply clicking a button and sending out a laser beam is ok? We all want to advance our power, not just the raiding clique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quip Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wait... So crafting might be better than raiding for some slots but raiding might be better than crafting for some slots!? That's AWFUL, I QUIT!!1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 But simply clicking a button and sending out a laser beam is ok? We all want to advance our power, not just the raiding clique. Come on. Raiding is far more involved then that and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendaric Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It does if crafted items are best in slot. That doesn't make me elitist, I assume that everyone that plays an MMO wants challenging raid content or good and balanced pvp that rewards those actions, not grinding professions. Otherwise, what's the point? How does that make me elitist? You shouldn't make assumptions like that. Not everyone is interested in raiding or PvP at all and some of us like to craft and be viable with crafted gear. As they'll also lift the "requires <crafting skill> 400" requirement, I really don't see your issue. The changes will hopefully help the economy to get on it's way, which is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHoltJHolt Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Crafting should supplement raiding like it does in WoW, not overtake it for viability. Why does every aspect of SWTOR have to be just like WoW? Last time I checked this is a different game. I don't understand the mentality of people who bought this game and expected it to be just like WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppup Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Come on. Raiding is far more involved then that and you know it. Really now? You watch videos to learn the walkthroughs. You "farm" the raids over and over for the loot. It's as invovled as a hamster wheel. Stop fooling yourself, that it is an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtybomb Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That's nice, your elitist attitude is showing, let others play the game and get things in their own way, it in no way hurts you, or changes the way you play the game, unless it makes your special snowflake syndrome flare up I guess BW devs are elitist as well, since the crafting crit gear will only be as good as the gear you pull the mods from, which means the haves will still be getting their mods from Ops content and the have-nots will still be complaining about gear inequality across play styles. The orange crit gear is a good idea in that it adds another layer to gearing, but the bottom line is that players will still achieve the highest stats from running endgame. The endgame-hating crafters that manage to crit some oranges will make a few credits from selling them, but their gear still won't be BiS by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHoltJHolt Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That's nice, your elitist attitude is showing, let others play the game and get things in their own way, it in no way hurts you, or changes the way you play the game, unless it makes your special snowflake syndrome flare up +1!! Haha! Snowflake.... Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtybomb Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Really now? You watch videos to learn the walkthroughs. You "farm" the raids over and over for the loot. It's as invovled as a hamster wheel. Stop fooling yourself, that it is an accomplishment. Nothing achieved in a video game is a real accomplishment unless you are getting paid to play video games. Video game accomplishments mean that one person is more efficient at wasting their time than another person. It's all still pixels on a screen. When I can trade my achievements in to pay for my mortgage or put food on the table, then it will actually be worth something. And if Ops were so easy (and swtor is actually easier than anything else I've played mechanic wise), everyone would do it and be done the first weekend of release. What makes endgame content hard is the human factor. Getting 8/16 people together to work as a team is harder than a solo player that doesn't have to compensate for other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Really now? You watch videos to learn the walkthroughs. You "farm" the raids over and over for the loot. It's as invovled as a hamster wheel. Stop fooling yourself, that it is an accomplishment. And yet, all of this still takes more effort and is more involved then clicking a button while watching the big bang theory. You can claim raiding is easy, and maybe it is in this game. I can assure you of two things- 1. The nightmare ops are not intended to be pushovers and will not be as easy in future content. 2. Any endgame content in other titles outside of ToR were not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Go try heroic Rag in WoW and tell me how easy it is and how non-involved. Go tell me Rifts endgame is easy. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but allowing the best gear to be crafted in game by sitting in front of the AH really depletes the value and point of said gear. Feel free to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good to see the devs for SWTOR are breaking the "norm" as far as gear is concerned. I think the whole "raiding to get gear" aspect of MMO's has run its course. We need new ways to satisfy our gaming hunger. I welcome the change. It's quite refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 As far as players looking exactly how they want, that really depends on how many orange items they add to the crafting proffesions. Because all the current orange gear in the game will be useless (pretty much) as it wont have augment slots. So really a character will only beable to customize as much as BW gives us for schematics for say armormech. I dont think they are going to give us like 20 full sets of orange gear or anything like that, but i guess well wait and see. Hue to chest will help as well i guess, as players will beable to make combinations of the different schematics and mix and match to their liking and still have them match color wise. Last I read, they were simply adding the ability for orange gear to crit, which means all the existing orange items will be able to have augment slots when critically crafted. Which (IMO) is practically the death knell of the armormaking classes. (I notice they didn't answer my question about what they are planning to do to keep critically crafted oranges from making skill > ~100 in those skills worthless.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbowsin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes the crafting gear will become BiS but they are not changing the difficulty of the Ops. So that gear will not be needed unless a player or groups of players want to make the encounters easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrynn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) It does if crafted items are best in slot. That doesn't make me elitist, I assume that everyone that plays an MMO wants challenging raid content or good and balanced pvp that rewards those actions, not grinding professions. Otherwise, what's the point? How does that make me elitist? Actually... As an old DAoC player, I would MUCH rather have all the best gear come from crafting and PvP be about my faction first, and extended character advancement (the DAoC Realm Points system) second, NOT gear. Take gear completely out of the equation. I don't play to acquire gear, ever. I play because I find the game itself fun. Gear is simply a means to an end and should not be the end itself. Edited March 5, 2012 by Phaedrynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Why does every aspect of SWTOR have to be just like WoW? Last time I checked this is a different game. I don't understand the mentality of people who bought this game and expected it to be just like WoW. ^This totally agree. Honestly its about time that there's a better mix ratio between crafting and raiding so that crafting is a viable option in a themepark game instead of a mini game to make a lil bit of money on through the life of your toon. I personally dont see a problem with what their doing as long as they impliment changes in the raid loot drops to be more crafter based without being BOP. That way players can bring the material to a crafter or aguild crafter or even themselves and make something seriously epic. It'll especially be nice if they fix the RE problem that they admitted to over a month ago. Personally I think the OP's issue is just an ePeen issue. Raiding should and never was until WoW the only way to have nice bad *** gear. Even in EQ1 some of the best items in the game were either raid drops, crafted, or class quest crafted. Sometimes it was rare event gear that required half the server to try and get. Raiding becamse the end all be all thanks to a crappy designer that some how still has his job at Blizzard even after telling a large percentage of its playerbase to "learn to raid". His words not mine. And while it didnt' hurt the game since they back pedaled a bit on the direction they were heading (there was a short lived mass exodus of players during its first 2 years, not enough for players to notice but enough for the devs and its accountants to notice)it certaintly peeved me off for life. I enjoy raiding as something to do not something to live by and I enjoy crafting to make some bad *** unique things for my friends and myself. I however did not enjoy how WoW time and again has shafted crafting into a secondary load of easy mode crap. Keep WoW's mechanics in WoW, evolve what it has into something better and so far I think Bioware is doing that fairly well even with some misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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