Should Illum become an alterac valley?

[Dathran]

Illum is a great concept. The idea of a siege, walkers and whatnot, is brilliant. But it seems to not work. Is it time to make Illum a warzonelike zone? What Illum needs is more incentive, more objectives and less zerg. (The faction imbalance destroys all possibility for open world PvP on illum)

 

I'm speaking of the old alterac valley for those who know, it had plenty of tactics and possibilities to create the feeling of an immense battlefield. Of course it also did things wrong, but I believe Illum will die if it's not stimulated in such a way. Perhaps not exactly a warzone, but a repeated world event with a population cap.

 

What are your thoughts? If I think back to Wow the only thing that stands out for me is the roleplay I created myself and Alterac valley. So don't flame me for suggesting something from that game, this was found enjoyable overall.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Dathran

[Randytravis]

Agreed it is a great concept, they got half of it right. The issue is, the only real way i can see it working is making it phased, and have it cross server (or something to that extent) as the imp-rep is sooo poor on most servers. As the technolgy of cross server hasn't been implemented yet i guess thats why they are putting a freeze on illum untill they have implemented a proper game plan. If they are going to have a fix for it in the future then i think they should still have a source of material or something to gather or collect for a quest/crafting, or make specific quests that we can complete for dailys/weeklys seperate to WZ's as it is now. It gives they players variety. I don't mind the changes in 1.1.5 for a fast fix but just doing WZ's won't hold players for long even if they add a extra WZ map. PvP needs something else and illum was the intention for that.

 

Edit: I would also just like to add, although i do agree with you for adding more stratgedy to illum using AV as a example, it is incredibly difficult for games companys to introduce new concepts of strategdy to pvp. AV for example was once a amazing battleground but over the years it just became a zerg fest to the end boss. Players jusy bypassed each other. There were times where there was hardly any pvp in a AV.

 

My point is, it's very difficult to add a balanced system that will force players to use stratedgy to complete what ever it is they are doing. Players will always try and find shortcuts to bypass for a easy win. That is why huttball has been quite a success in some players eyes, there is allot of team work in that WZ and it forces players to work as a team. Like AV did in WoW back in vanilla.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Randytravis

[Dathran]

Old Alterac valley was good because the NPC's in it were very strong. You needed teamwork and you -needed- to do objectives, or you were doomed.

[DeadlyScythe]

make sure its the 1 day long OLD AV. that was the king of battlefields (no not the game just a battleground people) not this lame rushing thing thats now in WoW. So yes. i say Yes to this if its old AV like. Edited March 2, 2012 by DeadlyScythe

[TheLakers]

Can someone explain to me what New Alterac Valley is like? I've only played the old AV in vanilla WoW and found it a million more times enjoyable than Ilum.

[Dathran]

Can someone explain to me what New Alterac Valley is like? I've only played the old AV in vanilla WoW and found it a million more times enjoyable than Ilum.

 

The old alterac valley's NPC's were much stronger and there were no 'supplies' that'd diminish when someone died.

 

This meant that: Usually to make good progress in alterac valley, you had to take every tower and every keep. Because the NPC's were strong a defending raid group of 40 people versus an attacking one of 40 people had a strong advantage and it was hard to push on.

 

But I don't know if you remember, but even in the new AV, there's npc's you can give blood, armour scraps, etc, etc. If you do those things, NPC's will come for your team and attack your enemy. Nowadays people ignore this and push for win due to npc's being ignorable.

 

This allowed people to push. Alterac valley was a combination of attacking, defending and gathering items to prepar for a massive push. Nowadays people ignore this and push for win due to npc's being ignorable.

 

 

 

Just imagine this: Fighting a stalemate at the enemy bunker, suddenly your team mates begin shouting: MAKE WAY FOR THE RAM RIDERS.

 

Then a huge ram rider army would ride forward (elites) and help you push, usually being the decisive factor. Same goes for the Blood/forest lord, the gryphon/wyvern riders etc.

 

It was brilliant and could last hours.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Dathran

[Kheldras]

i actually loved Alterac (best were the multiple hour long wars "Defend till server Maintainance" ), as my most favorite Battleground.

 

Si, yes, make it such a warzone!

Edited March 2, 2012 by Kheldras

[Streptococo]

Can someone explain to me what New Alterac Valley is like? I've only played the old AV in vanilla WoW and found it a million more times enjoyable than Ilum.

 

Since Wotlk the raiding gear made it unnecessary to have to cap towers to despawn Bosses' guards, so it's just a run to the other faction's base and raid the boss and his guards.

 

The problem was that Blizzard added an achievements list for Raids, instances, Bg arenas quests... for whatever you can think of there is a list of achievements. For Av one of them was "The Blitz" which was awarded if you won Av in less than 6 mins, if I remember well. So it started The Blitz fever and eventually became the standard way to do Av.

 

So the most epic WoW's BG got wasted.

 

 

I agree Ilum would become an awesome zone if it were designed similar to AV. The elements to make it possible are already there.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Streptococo

[Olympic]

This game would be much better going to the Warhammer RvR system.

 

Just say no to NPC's in a PvP zone.

[Nezis]

Since Wotlk the raiding gear made it unnecessary to have to cap towers to despawn Bosses' guards, so it's just a run to the other faction's base and raid the boss and his guards.

 

The problem was that Blizzard added an achievements list for Raids, instances, Bg arenas quests... for whatever you can think of there is a list of achievements. For Av one of them was "The Blitz" which was awarded if you won Av in less than 6 mins, if I remember well. So there started The Blitz fever and eventually became the standard way to do Av.

 

So the most epic WoW's BG got wasted.

 

 

I agree Ilum would become an awesome zone if it were designed similar to AV. The elements to make it possible are already there.

 

Yeah if they were smart they would do their best to make Ilum a giant awesome AV like area.

 

Oh the good times in AV...battles went hours and hours and I stayed in them because they were fun.

[Streptococo]

This game would be much better going to the Warhammer RvR system.

 

Just say no to NPC's in a PvP zone.

 

There's no need to have to kill a Boss to win. Think about the fortresses being able to be conquered and defended by each faction.

 

Anyway, having in mind Av style... and to make use of what already is in Ilum...

 

The AT-AT and Republican transports would mean the health of the fortress' defenses. We should destroy them to be able to launch the final assault to the fortress, like for each of the AT-AT destroyed (or every 3 of them), the doors would become weaker or until, once all transports had been destroyed, all the doors of the fortress would despawn or be able to be destroyed with the bazookas. Or each 3 transports would despawn a door.

 

There should only be 1-3 bazookas per faction, and each AT-AT or Rep Transport should need to be hit 3-4 times each shot would have 30-45 secs CD.

 

So when all defenses are down, it would be the time to try to conquer the fortress, the goal? don't know, a banner, flag, whatever in the core of the fortress should be captured. While the other faction is trying to cap ours and defend theirs.

 

Well, BW should fix quite a lot of things and do something with the engine cos this idea or something similar would be unplayable, right now.

 

Oh the good times in AV...battles went hours and hours and I stayed in them because they were fun.

Yes, same here. Those Av which one of the factions decided to defend and the fights becoming endless were epic. Edited March 2, 2012 by Streptococo

[Chilliboy]

@OP

 

I was considering this very thing last night. Can't decide if I'd want the original, hours long one or the zergy current one. As long it's not open world any more, I'd be happy.

[Olympic]

@OP

 

I was considering this very thing last night. Can't decide if I'd want the original, hours long one or the zergy current one. As long it's not open world any more, I'd be happy.

 

So you want war zone pvp for life?

[Chilliboy]

So you want war zone pvp for life?

No thanks. Just not open world pvp as it stands now.

 

Edit: Besides, I was talking about Ilum specifically.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Chilliboy

[RocNessMonster]

This is exactly what needs to happen, similar to classic AV with NPCs, quests, summonable faction bosses, etc. This should be a no-brainer for Bioware, it is something fans have been asking for on the WOW forums for over four years. If Blizzard doesn't want to fill that hole, Bioware should be keen on picking up those fans.

[TUXs]

The old alterac valley's NPC's were much stronger and there were no 'supplies' that'd diminish when someone died.

 

This meant that: Usually to make good progress in alterac valley, you had to take every tower and every keep. Because the NPC's were strong a defending raid group of 40 people versus an attacking one of 40 people had a strong advantage and it was hard to push on.

 

But I don't know if you remember, but even in the new AV, there's npc's you can give blood, armour scraps, etc, etc. If you do those things, NPC's will come for your team and attack your enemy. Nowadays people ignore this and push for win due to npc's being ignorable.

 

This allowed people to push. Alterac valley was a combination of attacking, defending and gathering items to prepar for a massive push. Nowadays people ignore this and push for win due to npc's being ignorable.

 

 

 

Just imagine this: Fighting a stalemate at the enemy bunker, suddenly your team mates begin shouting: MAKE WAY FOR THE RAM RIDERS.

 

Then a huge ram rider army would ride forward (elites) and help you push, usually being the decisive factor. Same goes for the Blood/forest lord, the gryphon/wyvern riders etc.

 

It was brilliant and could last hours.

 

I've never played w0w, but I like what you've described a lot!!!!

[Jatne]

Illum is a great concept. The idea of a siege, walkers and whatnot, is brilliant. But it seems to not work. Is it time to make Illum a warzonelike zone? What Illum needs is more incentive, more objectives and less zerg. (The faction imbalance destroys all possibility for open world PvP on illum)

 

I'm speaking of the old alterac valley for those who know, it had plenty of tactics and possibilities to create the feeling of an immense battlefield. Of course it also did things wrong, but I believe Illum will die if it's not stimulated in such a way. Perhaps not exactly a warzone, but a repeated world event with a population cap.

 

What are your thoughts? If I think back to Wow the only thing that stands out for me is the roleplay I created myself and Alterac valley. So don't flame me for suggesting something from that game, this was found enjoyable overall.

 

YES, been saying this since it became obvious in closed beta that most people were going Imperial.

[TUXs]

This is exactly what needs to happen, similar to classic AV with NPCs, quests, summonable faction bosses, etc. This should be a no-brainer for Bioware, it is something fans have been asking for on the WOW forums for over four years. If Blizzard doesn't want to fill that hole, Bioware should be keen on picking up those fans.

 

Agreed!

 

Someone needs to PM Bioware names a link to this thread.

[Valerii]

Nice necro!

[Rolzhard]

Yes.

 

The tic tac toe wz's are fun but we need "open world" wz's with strategic objectives and if BW can't come up with their own then by all means copy Alterac Valley. (Old AV plz) Long undending slugfests ftw! 8 hour AV battles are still some of my fondest memories of WoW PVP.

 

When they're through copying AV, copy Warsong Gulch too^^.

[RocNessMonster]

I've never played w0w, but I like what you've described a lot!!!!

 

It's even better then that, enough people turn in storm orbs (gained from looting enemy players and npcs) and the druids run to the center of the the battleground and begin to cast their summons. The enemy catches wind of this development and the zerg shifts focus. Defend the druids long enough while they channel their abilities and the 50ft raid boss spawns. You focus fire anyone who attempts to tank the boss while it goes berserk on squishies high on its threat table as it continues its march north to the enemy base.

[YanksfanJP]

Since Wotlk the raiding gear made it unnecessary to have to cap towers to despawn Bosses' guards, so it's just a run to the other faction's base and raid the boss and his guards.

 

The problem was that Blizzard added an achievements list for Raids, instances, Bg arenas quests... for whatever you can think of there is a list of achievements. For Av one of them was "The Blitz" which was awarded if you won Av in less than 6 mins, if I remember well. So it started The Blitz fever and eventually became the standard way to do Av.

 

So the most epic WoW's BG got wasted.

 

 

I agree Ilum would become an awesome zone if it were designed similar to AV. The elements to make it possible are already there.

 

 

Not for nothing, but Alterac Valley became ruined long before the Blitz achievement was introduced. it was just the nail in the proverbial coffin.

[Mordresh]

It should be more like the Cataclysm Wintergrasp equivalent (forgot the name) imo.

 

-Let players only head in ever hour/hour and a half.

-Auto-join an ops when you enter and only let people enter after the teams are even.

-Reward whomever has control at the end of a set time. Control resets after each battle.

-Allow people to queue through the PvP menu.

 

 

This would solve most of the problems I think. No objective trading since only the winner gets big rewards. No one side dominating the other one through sheer numbers. Just fun and fair fights.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Mordresh

[RocNessMonster]

It should be more like the Cataclysm Wintergrasp equivalent (forgot the name) imo.

 

-Let players only head in ever hour/hour and a half.

-Auto-join an ops when you enter and only let people enter after the teams are even.

-Reward whomever has control at the end of a set time. Control resets after each battle.

-Allow people to queue through the PvP menu.

 

 

This would solve most of the problems I think. No objective trading since only the winner gets big rewards. No one side dominating the other one through sheer numbers. Just fun and fair fights.

 

Novare Coast is pretty much Tol Barad (Cataclysm) already minus the towers.

[Mordresh]

Novare Coast is pretty much Tol Barad (Cataclysm) already minus the towers.

 

I'm not talking about changing the objectives, destroying the tanks etc. Was fine before people started objective trading (and actually PvPing got you angry whispers >.>) I mean the pure mechanics of only being able to join at a certain time and the other things I listed.