EternalFinality Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Maybe by blown away they mean putting people off till they leave the game? I was indeed blown away by how terribly designed it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xserchux Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 according to bioware it is. They screwed up in making the rep side not having wookies/alien races is why were in this current mess of warzones. Think about it they cant make same faction open world pvp. They have this HUGE imbalance b/c of this so there solution is more huttball same faction pvp warzones. I think this game is strictly going pve with warzones and ditching open world b/c of rep class side not appealing enough. Should have made wookies playable bioware now were paying for your incompetence Yup, If repubs would have had wookies and or race of Yodas we wouldnt be seeing this imbalance. They gave imps Vader Palpatine and Bobafett...Then gave repub Luke Skywalker and a bootleg cowboy Han Solo.. With the bootleg beating out skywalker in overall looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I dont believe we have the best pvp team lol. Thier nice guys in real life but anyone seeing this pvp can agree that statement is a flat out lie. James ohlen was trying to impress with this customizable ui coming soon video lolz. Still cant believe a customizable ui is a coming soon feature. Imagine wow or another mmo doing this? hell even pos lotro had customizable ui at get go. I don think they realize how that makes them look honestly to me its cheesy and i view that as like hey we dont have bleep coming really except more rakghouls so were saving this customizable ui for later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yup, If repubs would have had wookies and or race of Yodas we wouldnt be seeing this imbalance. They gave imps Vader Palpatine and Bobafett...Then gave repub Luke Skywalker and a bootleg cowboy Han Solo.. With the bootleg beating out skywalker in overall looks. Luke never dressed in hobo robes. They gave us Qui Gon Booze. No one likes Qui Gon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) my suspicion is that they haven't optimized the game enough for massive pvp fights. even high end rigs are experiencing choppiness. Warzones they can control more than jus tletting people zerg Anyone ever play DAOC? They need zones like Thindraki where it's a persistent warzone, you zone in and fight. Sometimes there's small skirmishes, sometimes huge fights centered around the keep in the middle. If the zone fills up another instance spawns. I guess illum is a similar idea but it doesn't feel the same at all. another thing about warzones. many times people just go in there purely to pk other people, with no care about the objectives. I think this is because warzones are pretty much the only place you can reliably pk folks. If you had more open world pvp I think PUGs would in effect be more objective-minded. Edited March 1, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This isn't going to be a oPvP game. They took a stab at it with Ilum, upcoming patch notes suggest that they have given up on fixing the design (for now). This game's PvP is just an arcade game attached to their singleplayer rpg that you can play online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 one of the problems with illum is it's kind of weird for someone new. I got there and thought, what the hell am I supposed to do? People want ot just flippin kill eachother, without a lot of extra crap involved: Zone in to a smallish/medium sized zone, the enemy is nearby, there is a structure in the middle of the map that either side is trying to hold. Limit how many each side can zone in for balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrynn Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) World PvP dies off the moment you put in WZs. The only reason people ever went to Ilum is because they had to for dailies, they wouldn't have otherwise. if you want good world pvp you need to start by removing WZs, adding in major points of interest for people to fight over in the world and have a reasonably balanced population. None of those things are in place and likely never will be with WZs present. This is exactly why they need to de-incentivize warzones entirely. Tying gear to them is always a mistake. They are meaningless cage fights, and should be treated as such. Move the focus to real PvP, fix the issues with Ilum, add new PvP planets, make territorial control have real [faction wide] consequenes, and then we will have the makings of a real endgame. Edited March 1, 2012 by Phaedrynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briljin Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 At this point, I really believe BW has just given up upon world PvP. Their game engine has issues with mass PvP and the faction imbalance is something they are unwilling to address. In their eyes, instanced PvP is at least some thing that runs well and they can better control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedpotter Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 imo i think they are focusing on wzs for now as they are what is going to be successful until pop imbalnce is figured out. Cant have good open world pvp if its always 60v20. And most servers that is the case. Organized people can make their own world pvp in the meantime, just have to sacrifce the rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 plenty of fun pvp on ilum for the people who really like to pvp. the fake pvpers only show up long enough to finish quests, then disapear. real pvpers stay and pvp even with daily and weekly have long been finished. lol. Real PvP'ers aren't even subbed to this game anymore, we're just trolling the forums until our subs run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailek Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Why do you think? Ilum has been a total fail and they are moving rewards more into WZ and away from Ilum. They obviously need some time to rethink their whole RVR system. Ilum isn't an RvR sysatem btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 What we really want is Ilum 2, an open RvR world. With PvP missions and story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is exactly tehy they need to de-incentivize warzones entirely. Tying gear to them is always a mistake. They are meaningless cage fights, and should be treated as such. Move the focus to real PvP, fix the issues with Ilum, add new PvP planets, make territorial control have real [faction wide] consequenes, and then we will have the makings of a real endgame. Bioware isn't after a real PvP game, they are after a slice of WoW subscriber pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 World PvP dies off the moment you put in WZs. The only reason people ever went to Ilum is because they had to for dailies, they wouldn't have otherwise. if you want good world pvp you need to start by removing WZs, adding in major points of interest for people to fight over in the world and have a reasonably balanced population. None of those things are in place and likely never will be with WZs present. This is the truth. People can disagree and debate it, but it will still be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceciken Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can tell by the games design that they have no idea when it comes to world pvp. I dont buy the excuse that " this game was built for pve" because some simple design changes could have made the planets and game cater to both the pve and pvp crowd, Such as they could have made the questing zones on all planets overlap instead of separating them so much. They also could have added rewards ( mercenary commendations ) for kills of players your own level and they could have kill quests on different planets. These changes would not affect pve players because they would not have to engage in the pvp on their pve servers. What is the point of creating a game for only one playstyle when they could have made the game for both ? It makes sense that they would want to market to a larger crowd then a smaller one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anishor Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 How about some info on 1.2 for PvP that DOESN'T involve warzones?! It seem like your entire focus right now is WZs...is that really all PvPers have to look forward to? Any changes coming to Ilum, Tat's FFA zone, or anywhere that might encourage some open world PvP? If so, how soon?! If not...why?! Because there is a perception that e-sports is better than an overarching War and Control metagame. I of course think that a war meta game will always show more skill and organization than e-sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 When they said they had developers from Warhammer I really thought we were going to get a Warhammer style RvR system, not the resolve system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceciken Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 When they said they had developers from Warhammer I really thought we were going to get a Warhammer style RvR system, not the resolve system... Yea i was hoping for warhammer type rvr zones where they actually learned from their past mistakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbryant Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 No, it doesn't fail. Call of Duty, Battlefield 3 - those are arguably "PvP" only games. PvPers are a massive part of the gaming populous and a good PvP system will not only attract players, it HOLDS them. I'm not playing any other game right now because I'm enjoying SWTOR. This is possibly the dumbest comparison I have ever seen made. CoD and BF3 are first person shooters not MMOs. There really isn't a gear system in either of them. You don't level up. You unlock new guns and attachments sure but for the most part there is nothing stopping a first level player from dominating a team of max level characters. I've seen it done in both games on multiple occasions. Also the OP was talking about open world pvp which is pvp where you aren't simply put in a box with equal numbers and told to fight. If anything both the games you listed are more akin to WZs than anything else. The point of the previous poster was that open world PvP fails when there are only 2 factions involved because 1 side quickly out numbers the other and so there becomes very little point for the underpopulated faction to participate. The only thing in your post that was even slightly close to being on mark was the fact that you said good PvP attracts and holds players. That is true. The problem is SWTOR has dug itself into a giant whole and didn't realize that it would need a ladder to get itself out. So now they are pretty much stuck trying to dig up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 At this point, I really believe BW has just given up upon world PvP. Their game engine has issues with mass PvP and the faction imbalance is something they are unwilling to address. In their eyes, instanced PvP is at least some thing that runs well and they can better control. From all the hints at what 1.2 will be, this is exactly my fear! WZ's will never be a substitute for open world PvP. WZ's, imo, are like space...nothing 'fun', just something to do when you're bored. They pass the time but mean nothing. I guess I'd just like to know where open world PvP is headed...because if it is tabled and out of development, I'll plan accordingly. The Star Wars name drew me to the game, the PvE is done well and fun once or twice through, but the PvP is what will hold me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 CoD and BF3 are first person shooters not MMOs. There really isn't a gear system in either of them. You don't level up You kind of do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is possibly the dumbest comparison I have ever seen made. CoD and BF3 are first person shooters not MMOs. There really isn't a gear system in either of them. You don't level up. You unlock new guns and attachments sure but for the most part there is nothing stopping a first level player from dominating a team of max level characters. I've seen it done in both games on multiple occasions. Also the OP was talking about open world pvp which is pvp where you aren't simply put in a box with equal numbers and told to fight. If anything both the games you listed are more akin to WZs than anything else. The point of the previous poster was that open world PvP fails when there are only 2 factions involved because 1 side quickly out numbers the other and so there becomes very little point for the underpopulated faction to participate. The only thing in your post that was even slightly close to being on mark was the fact that you said good PvP attracts and holds players. That is true. The problem is SWTOR has dug itself into a giant whole and didn't realize that it would need a ladder to get itself out. So now they are pretty much stuck trying to dig up. Um...you quoted me and I was the OP. My point in using COD and BF3 was simply to stress how popular player vs player fights/games are in mainstream gaming, a point the guy "I" had quoted was debating by suggesting that PvE players are more the norm. Neither of those game series are popular because of their epic solo FPS experience, both are successful because of the PvP element, and they happen to be FPS's, but they are still successful because of the PvP they offer. He never said what you're saying either...he said... open world pvp will always fail. people will always find someway to cheese the system. name the last world pvp that was a great success and why aren't you playing it now? I named 2 PvP focused titles that are the most successful titles in modern gaming to prove that PvP is a challenge that gamers enjoy...and buy more of! You're correct that both of those games more closely resemble WZ's in terms of balance, but that doesn't negate that the core of each games popularity was player vs. player combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashgan Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This engine is incapable to handle even 50x50 fights on 1+ year old computers (50-66% of players) without dropping to unplayable 0.2-10fps. Obviously Bioware is trying to get rid of world PvP until graphics optimization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bklynfinest Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 They have no idea how to design for world pvp. If you need proof, look at how the zones are designed. None of them put Imperial players near Republic players. They keep each other neatly secluded on opposite sides of the planets. Then look at the death penalties. You kill someone? They just revive exactly where they died. No point. The engine also can't support large amounts of people in one area, so large scale battles are out the window. You access all flashpoints and operations from the fleet. No need to travel to any zone and be thus exposed to other players on the other faction traveling to the same dungeon. (UBRS and Molten Core chains, anyone?) No matter what they may say in interviews, world PvP was NEVER a design consideration when they made this game. So is anyone surprised by Gabe's attitude? QFE. This pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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