Everquest IIs pvp worked that way as well. I think the reason more MMOs don't do that is because with targeting systems that are as terrible as the one found in this game re targeting to your original target isn't easy.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=SWTOR+claims+reinvents+tanking+in+pvp I can't say for sure that it originated with the SWTOR design team but it was mentioned quite often.

So SWTOR has been out for a couple of months now and I was wondering what everyone thought of the claim that was made before the game launched that bioware "reinvented" the role of the tank in PvP. Personally I feel like making taunts do something useful isn't really that inventive and not really a good trade off for the fact that I feel less "tanky" than in any other game I've played. I have a lvl 50 vanguard, a lvl 35 guardian, and a lvl 31 shadow all tank spec'd. I'm usually in the top 1/4 of the warzone board with all of them so I while I won't claim to be amazing I'm not complete crap. None of them really make me think tank in the same way that other games have. I've played EQ II, Aion, Guild Wars , CoH, Champions, lineage II, AoC, and at least 1 or 2 more who's names are escaping me and I've tanked in all of them. SWTOR is the game I feel the most "squishy" in PvP for a tank. I realize that feeling I'm more squishy isn't really an empirical way of gathering data but as there is no combat log in SWTOR it's pretty much the best I've got. Personally I'm not convinced that giving taunts a purpose really reinvents anything or even makes for a good mechanic. AoC's collision system was more original and while that game had it's fair share of problems I felt they did more with tanks. Anyways this isn't supposed to be a nerf or buff something thread just me asking what everyone thinks about tanking in SWTOR.

So all I got from this post was Healers are overpowered so let's nerf Tanks. Tanks currently have 1 and only 1 reason to stay tank spec'd for pvp and that is the fact that the medal gain is slightly higher than average and a large portion of that is how the guard/taunt mechanics work. With the institution of 1.1.5 and the limit of 4 medals earned for credit this reasoning is going out the window anyways. You're suggestion would basically ensure than the few people left that haven't gone DPS spec on their tank would certainly respec to do so.

This is possibly the dumbest comparison I have ever seen made. CoD and BF3 are first person shooters not MMOs. There really isn't a gear system in either of them. You don't level up. You unlock new guns and attachments sure but for the most part there is nothing stopping a first level player from dominating a team of max level characters. I've seen it done in both games on multiple occasions. Also the OP was talking about open world pvp which is pvp where you aren't simply put in a box with equal numbers and told to fight. If anything both the games you listed are more akin to WZs than anything else. The point of the previous poster was that open world PvP fails when there are only 2 factions involved because 1 side quickly out numbers the other and so there becomes very little point for the underpopulated faction to participate. The only thing in your post that was even slightly close to being on mark was the fact that you said good PvP attracts and holds players. That is true. The problem is SWTOR has dug itself into a giant whole and didn't realize that it would need a ladder to get itself out. So now they are pretty much stuck trying to dig up.

Let me start by saying that I have a valor 54 Vanguard in almost complete Champion gear. I have PvPed heavily both before 50 and after, in both warzones and on ilum. In warzones I am generally in the top 2 or 3 in the game for medals despite often having terrible teammates, mostly because getting 50k protection isn't hard. I also have a shadow tank and a guardian both in their mid 30s. I state all of this not to try and brag but simply to demonstrate that I have a lot of experience with tanking in PvP in SWTOR. It's my opinion that tanks are generally far more durable than any other class in a 1 v 1 or 1 v 2. The problem is that the DPS or burst damage of a tank spec'd class even going 31 points to get to the top of the tree and then putting the other 10 in a DPS tree is beyond terrible. As such I have a really hard time soloing almost any class because they way out damage me. Sorcs/sages have bubbles that take me almost as long to burn through as it takes for them to go through cooldown and they can stun and heal me, Operatives/Scoundrels can keep me stunned long enough to burn through a large portion of my health and then disappear if things get rough. Mercs/Commandos do solid damage and can spam mid damage attacks that I can't avoid and that debuff my armor with every hit, plus they have solid clutch healing. I do okay against guardians/juggernauts but only because I can kite them and they do almost as bad damage as I do. Sentinels/whatever the opposite is (I'm blanking) do a crap ton of damage and are highly survivable. Now none of this means that I am always incapable of killing people solo but I feel like it generally takes an inordinate amount of good timing and skill when compared with other classes. Mercs can use a between 1-4 abilities and put me in a bad place really fast. Sorcs similarly have an easy time while I'm sweating my *** off trying to do everything in my power to fight back. All in all it leads to a PvP experience that is often dissatisfying. I think that either increasing what shield is affective against or slightly balancing out DPS vs. armor mitigation would go a long way to slightly increasing the survivability of a tank while not making it game breaking. I would simply appreciate if I could stand a better chance in PvP without working my *** off. I know I'm going to get some learn to play responses to this and all I can say to that is if I'm coming out so much ahead in warzones but so far behind in solo play is it me or the class. Oh and I am definitely not asking for 3 button success like mercs.

definitely agree with this 100%. Also if something could be done to make clicking on friendlies not stupid impossible that would be great as well. Trying to switch my guard to the ball handler in hutt ball can be next to impossible sometimes. And yes I realize I could target him from the ops window but that involves a lot of mouse moving around the screen.

I don't know if they were purposefully vague when they gave out statistics or didn't think it actually needed an explanation. Honestly I don't know whether to take the statement at face value and assume that there actually are servers where the Republic dominate in war zones (which is likely given that I hear people troll about it all the time) or to go with the assumption that they are using skewed math. I wouldn't find either hard to believe but considering they have avoided giving out any real data about this I'm going to assume it's a stall tactic to buy them time to try and fix it. I honestly assume they are looking at Wins/Total matches. If this is the case then the empire to empire matches are very significant because they automatically draw the average closer to 50%. That's simply how an average works. I would be very interested in seeing empire vs. republic win loss statistics released for all of the servers. I would assume this is coming with the advent of ranking but you know what they say about assuming. Honestly it's in biowares best interest to hide the real data and base ranking off of some indecipherably assigned number.

I don't really see any competitive PvP being able to exist in this game. The longer this game goes without some way of separating out the BM geared premades from everyone else in lvl 50 warzones the larger a gap there will be between the 2 factions come ranking time. I anticipate that by march that on most servers one faction will be much much better geared than the other and we all know that gear = win in most situations in this game. And before you accuse me of whining about people roflstomping me I actually do okay in warzones, not great mind you, but I almost always come out with at least 6 medals (unfortunately 4 of those are usually from protection because of how terrible my teams are and how much time I spend trying to cover their asses). Any game I end with a 150k protection score and we still get dominated is a good indicator of how much of a disparity there is between the factions.

In every MMO I have ever played (with the exceptions of EVE and Aion) the only difference between PvP and PvE servers has been the fact that on a PvP server you will often times find high level individuals camping the towns and objectives of lower level members of the opposite faction. This results in a completely unenjoyable leveling experience for a lot of people and doesn't really promote world PvP so much as it promotes *******es from ruining things for other people. Yes I enjoy PvP but I also enjoy leveling without being constantly harassed by idiots. If you don't understand this then obviously you are unfamiliar with the MMO genre and how these things work. Or you're a stupid troll in which case congrats you got me.

The only problem with this that I see is that you would really only have 1 class to play. That and at this point in the history the Mandalorians have kind of been trounced and are not a very strong force in the galaxy. Certainly not one to rival the Empire or the Republic.

The problem with this is that you are correct with the gear that is currently available. However if you take in to account the fact that more gear will become available in the near future and that the individuals who are already max geared will be able to start on that gear immediately will ensure the continued gear disparity. Besides who wants to play 200 some odd games worth of losses in order to be equally geared to the guys who have been trouncing you for all those games. Also your logic on warzones is flawed. Somehow you think that because in Huttball 1/2 the imperials are going to lose is somehow equal to my statistics of the Republic losing far more than 1/2 the time. You're right the republic doesn't have to worry about losing 1/2 the time they have to worry about losing 9/10 the time.

I'm not trying to be an *** or a troll but it is really community competition that you are afraid of losing or is it that you don't want to risk not winning 90% of the time anymore? I realize that there probably are several servers with a competitive population but from my experience and what I've read on the forums usually one side completely dominates the other, as is generally the case in 2 faction games. If you could do full 8 man premades would this change your mind? I realize you may not want to play with scrubs from other servers if you have a really tight nit group and that would certainly alleviate that while still offering benefits to guys like me who spend a lot of time in PvP getting destroyed by a very dominate imperial faction. Plus for server specific fights there is always Ilum.

That actually would have been quit interesting. Take the smuggler and bounty hunter classes plus whatever else would be needed to reassert balance and allow them to play the "grey" Hutt Cartel faction. The smuggler storyline could be made much more interesting than treasure hunting and it would provide that 3rd faction that seems essential for interesting somewhat balanced PvP. Too bad you guys don't work for Bioware.

I wasn't attempting to blame people for playing imperials. I realized a long time ago that if there is an easy road people will take it regardless. What I was trying to point out is that one side (whichever is more populated) is pretty much guaranteed an I win button. I watched 3 imps hold off 6 republic players on an objective earlier and all I could think of is how broken the PvP gear system is. Skill and strategy are non existent most of the time because neither one of them beat out gear. Maybe that's just the game functioning as intended but it fails to realistically be competitive

I know a lot of people will simply bash on me for "qq'ing" or try and be ******* trolls but I am at a loss for how else to look at things. Btw I am not simply advocating giving out gear or complaining that I don't gear faster but pointing out a flaw in the system. Let me give a little background first. I'm a tank spec'd vanguard and I reached 50 about 2 weeks ago. I originally rolled Republic because my friends did not realizing I was going to be a huge underdog. I've been doing regular warzones since and have spent some time on ilum although usually it is heavily camped by imperials and so there isn't much point to showing up there except to give the imps valor. I've been keeping a log of my wins and losses and my medal/commendation gain for a while now and I've figured out that it takes me between 15 -16 losses to afford one champion bag and between 8-11 wins to afford the same. This is with me averaging between 5 and 9 medals each time and mostly sitting around 6 or 7. This translates to between 50-60 comms for a loss and 85-100 for a win. Playing for at least a couple hours every night I manage to finish the daily for warzones about 4 or 5 times a week, the illum daily maybe once a week if I'm on at really low pop hours, and have gotten the weekly twice for warzones. What this has led me to conclude is that there is simply no way for the less populated side to ever catch up in gear to the more populated side. Taking in to account on my server that weekdays imps win about 60% of the time and weekends about 90% of the time it simply becomes mathematically impossible to keep up with their commendation gain unless you play at least 150% of the number of matches they play. Which will become much harder to do with more same faction warzones. I realize that the early 50s had a harder time getting the gear they wanted and that the new bag system is supposed to help that but it still leads to more commendation gain by one side vs another. I don't really have a suggestion to fix this it just feels to me like it ruins an otherwise good game.