You aren't bored, you are trained

[Deamian]

I'm pretty sure these are people who would've busted out their word processing machines to write nasty letters to the developers of Pong. There is no pleasing them. EVER.

 

That was good... sad but true that most of the people complaining are ones that if they eat 1 menu item at a restaurant they will yell to everyone they know.. and even some they don't.. that the FOOD at said restaurant is terrible... Really one item = the entire food at the place..Not to mention the "I want everything instantly" that kids enjoy now a days.. a txt doesn't go through and it ruins their whole day.

[Tiddex]

Actually I just play my level 41 main or 31 alt a few hours a week. I nibble away at the content and savor it. I havent even started anything Emperial side yet. I suppose the lack of "training" would make me a scrub baddie but I don't care, I'm not bored and bitter so I win.

 

so true

[BMBender]

My rebuttal:

 

 

 

I remember playing Zelda and Metroid back in the day and they had amazing stories. I remember playing Sonic and Castlevania. Each of these having stories that were quite enjoyable.

 

Are you wanting to go back to a day and age when controlling a yellow circle to eat round pixels and ghosts with no story is the highlight of gaming?

 

Sounds to me like you are more of a Call of Duty or Battlefield gamer and not an MMORPG gamer.

 

NO more a asminov, drake, turtle, weber kinda guy in regards to stroytelling have absolutely no idea what zelda, metroid , COH have to do with professional storytelling.

 

Are you saying that this isn't enough? Since when does the amount of time spent playing a video game have anything to do with the quality of the game? If it's fun, it's fun and you keep playing. If it's not fun, then why keep playing? Kinda pointless to keep doing something you don't enjoy, right?

 

merely saying that time /played is an unreliable metric to base anything off of as people go through content at different rates

 

 

Are you a developer? Do you even understand what it takes to create a game that caters to so many different types of personalities and be successful? If you are, or if you do, where's your game? I would like to try it out.

 

thanks for making my point. trying to cater to a vast array of conflicting playestyles is imo a waiste of man-hours and rescources, no matter how good a dev team may be there can be a point reached where priorities conflict and your unable complete content modules in a stramlined fasion since it often impacts an un-related module and has to be "balanced"

 

Look, the point is simple; Developers provide a product for the people to try out. If people like it, great. If they don't, better luck next time. But to sit here and call out the Devs as if they have ruined your life is quite foolish. No one is forcing anyone to play these games. The fact that you play or not is your choice. If you're not happy and continue to play, then who's fault is it really?

 

no wories there 22 days left on sub

[Tenceriker]

Remember back when MMOs had content and players didn't make threads that are loosely veiled attempts at making excuses for said MMOs. Yeah I remember, those were good times.

[Alkiii]

NO more a asminov, drake, turtle, weber kinda guy in regards to stroytelling have absolutely no idea what zelda, metroid , COH have to do with professional storytelling.

 

Your definition of "professional storytelling" differs from mine. If the story delivers, no matter what medium, then it is considered successful to me. Whether it be video game stories, a book story, a movie story or a play storyline acted out live, it doesn't matter ... it's all the same to me.

 

merely saying that time /played is an unreliable metric to base anything off of as people go through content at different rates

 

Still doesn't equal success or not based on time played. Regardless of how fast or how slow people go through content. Some play that don't even experience content.

 

thanks for making my point. trying to cater to a vast array of conflicting playestyles is imo a waiste of man-hours and rescources, no matter how good a dev team may be there can be a point reached where priorities conflict and your unable complete content modules in a stramlined fasion since it often impacts an un-related module and has to be "balanced"

 

That's the point of an MMO though. Trying to cater to so many is the entire basis to any MMO. Why do you consider it a "waste of man-hours and resources?" Is it because they didn't cater to your needs exactly? My needs have been catered to nicely, am I not allowed to enjoy this game when you don't?

 

What's your point in all of this? Why the slander? Just move on already ... the fact that you're still here tells the entire world that you have some personal vendetta against this game and the devs. Why? Are you that mad? In every purchase you make are you this adamant at getting exactly what you want? If so, you're going down a path of pure disappointment.

 

 

 

no wories there 22 days left on sub

 

So in that last 22 days you are on a personal mission to slander this game as much as possible before you go? Is life so terrible that this is how you express your dislike for something? Might I make a suggestion?

 

Go outside and try to voice these same concerns to random people on the street. They will care about as much as those of us reading your slander-riddled banter.

[Alkiii]

Remember back when MMOs had content and players didn't make threads that are loosely veiled attempts at making excuses for said MMOs. Yeah I remember, those were good times.

 

 

I am enjoying the content in this game. What you call "lack of content," I call a good amount of content.

 

No excuses are needed on my part. I simply enjoy the game. Is that a crime? Is it completely out of the ordinary for someone to differ in opinion and enjoy something you don't?

 

I'm sure that if you don't enjoy playing Softball in the real world, you go to softball websites and make posts about how there is no fun playing the game ... yet millions enjoy it, despite your beliefs, right?

 

Move along please, some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Alkiii

[Tarka]

Remember back when MMOs had content and players didn't make threads that are loosely veiled attempts at making excuses for said MMOs. Yeah I remember, those were good times.

 

Agreed. Back in the day, there was little competition, costs were lower, etc, etc. So it's really no surprise that people have higher expectations these days.

 

Of course, that doesn't stop ardent defenders of devs implying that the players are solely at fault for having expectations that are too high, or telling people that it's their fault that they haven't got enough patience and to "just give them time".

 

I've heard it all before on numerous MMO forums over the last 10 or so years. Unfortunately 9 times out of 10, the concerns being expressed before and just after launch were often the very reasons why said MMO's flopped.

 

Of course, I'm not trying to imply that TOR will indeed flop. Nevertheless, those who do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Limedust]

So you have this amazingly fun game, with great story for each and every class you would choose to play. 2 Maybe 3 lvl 50's so far? but you are finding that you don't have to play 40+ hours a week anymore, maybe an hour or so a night if you want to do a daily FP, or more if you work to get your daily pvp finished.

 

Bummer, a great MMO that you don't have to play your whole evening to enjoy.

 

 

There will never be a game that satiates the guilds/players that chew up content, or have been trained to play at the pace the developers want you to, bioware gave you an experience, you get out of it what you put into it.

 

No actually, we get out of it what they put into it, which isn't much of an experience, in my opinion. It could certainly be better. Part of the fun for many people is that their favorite game does require a whole evening to enjoy properly; you might as well just watch TV as play this game an hour or two a day. The stories would be better, the dialogue improved, and the overall experience much better.

[Tarka]

I am enjoying the content in this game. What you call "lack of content," I call a good amount of content.

 

No excuses are needed on my part. I simply enjoy the game. Is that a crime? Is it completely out of the ordinary for someone to differ in opinion and enjoy something you don't?

 

I'm sure that if you don't enjoy playing Softball in the real world, you go to softball websites and make posts about how there is no fun playing the game ... yet millions enjoy it, despite your beliefs, right?

 

Move along please, some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here.

 

Is it really a good idea to tell people to "move along"?

 

I realise that you probably weren't inferring that someone should leave the game, but just give a moment to think how, let's say, 500,000 people "moving along" to a competitors product could negatively impact the how much enjoyment those who stayed would have. How such a "movement" could affect things like looking for flashpoint groups, warzones, operations, the economy, etc, etc.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Limedust]

I am enjoying the content in this game. What you call "lack of content," I call a good amount of content.

 

No excuses are needed on my part. I simply enjoy the game. Is that a crime? Is it completely out of the ordinary for someone to differ in opinion and enjoy something you don't?

 

I'm sure that if you don't enjoy playing Softball in the real world, you go to softball websites and make posts about how there is no fun playing the game ... yet millions enjoy it, despite your beliefs, right?

 

Move along please, some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here.

 

Why don't you move along and into some echo-chamber. Other like to discuss, to criticize, and to think about things.

[Annedromeda]

Actually I just play my level 41 main or 31 alt a few hours a week. I nibble away at the content and savor it. I havent even started anything Emperial side yet. I suppose the lack of "training" would make me a scrub baddie but I don't care, I'm not bored and bitter so I win.

 

I'm exactly the same - nibbling at weekends only. Plus, if I wait a week to play, I enjoy it all the more. I'm not bored and bitter either, so we win together =)

[Azumio]

More "This is my opinion, if you don't agree with it you're a brat and I don't like you!" drivel.

[Diet-Hutt]

How do you give life to that which has no life?

 

Darth Plagueis, The Wise?

 

- DH

[monkgryphon]

NO more a asminov, drake, turtle, weber kinda guy in regards to stroytelling have absolutely no idea what zelda, metroid , COH have to do with professional storytelling.

 

That's very much like saying: I only like paintings. All other forms of visual art are inferior to paintings.

 

Video games are just another medium for storytelling and artwork.

[Master-Nala]

Is it really a good idea to tell people to "move along"?

 

I realise that you probably weren't inferring that someone should leave the game, but just give a moment to think how, let's say, 500,000 people "moving along" to a competitors product could negatively impact the how much enjoyment those who stayed would have. How such a "movement" could affect things like looking for flashpoint groups, warzones, operations, the economy, etc, etc.

 

If 500K people left, I wouldn't mind at all. I would wish them well. They paid $60, I hope they had fun while they were here. But people who aren't having fun are not logging in. And if they are, they probably aren't great teammates in game because they are unhappy.

 

Everquest Online Adventures, the first PS2 MMO, is finally shutting down after 9 years. At the end it was prehaps a couple thousand accounts. MMOs can last a long time. Smaller, stronger communities are better IMO.

 

Both of the MMOs I've subbed to for multiple years: EQ2 and CoH, had a fraction of what this game has now. CoH has at its height about 200K subs. And it was considered a smashing success. Better that this game get a core playerbase that's happy and content, than a larger one that's always cranky.

[Draylore]

I have played just about every MMO that has come down the line since EQ1.

 

Been trying to figure out what it is about TOR that leaves me with such conflicting thoughts.....by conflicting I mean ..........

 

-one one hand, without a doubt it has given me the most enjoyable leveling experience of any MMO I have played

 

-yet on the other hand, I have never lost interest in continuing to progress my character as quickly and abruptly as I have in TOR after hitting level cap >

 

 

I think the biggest factor is that while it is marketed as a MMO....which immediately generates expectations from players ...it really is not.

 

If I were to simply judge TOR on its story/leveling experience...it would easily get a 8 or 9/10.

 

If I were to simply judge TOR on its "MMOniss".....it would be hard to give it anything higher than a 2 or 3. The horrible UI ...which is something you sorta gloss over when you are engrossed in your story.... becomes a constant reminder of just how primitive the game feels once you do not have the story part.

 

That glaring contrast I think is something people are having a hard time adjusting too which is leading to feelings of disappointment. People by instinct tend to focus on what is bad with something rather than what is good. Strip the story, voice acting and cut scenes away and I doubt anyone would argue that we would be left with a really really sad MMO.

 

The fact that we are being asked to pay a monthly subscription for something that feels like it is a single player game doesn't help matters. That "Game over" feeling is not something most people want in something they are paying a monthly subscription fee for....especially when it happens so soon.

 

 

I am left with thinking that BW should have just made SWTOR be "KOTOR 3" ...then we would be talking about one of the best single player games ever.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Draylore

[Tarka]

If 500K people left, I wouldn't mind at all. I would wish them well. They paid $60, I hope they had fun while they were here. But people who aren't having fun are not logging in. And if they are, they probably aren't great teammates in game because they are unhappy.

 

Everquest Online Adventures, the first PS2 MMO, is finally shutting down after 9 years. At the end it was prehaps a couple thousand accounts. MMOs can last a long time. Smaller, stronger communities are better IMO.

 

Both of the MMOs I've subbed to for multiple years: EQ2 and CoH, had a fraction of what this game has now. CoH has at its height about 200K subs. And it was considered a smashing success. Better that this game get a core playerbase that's happy and content, than a larger one that's always cranky.

 

It's not as "black and white" as that. For instance, I log into the game to play flashpoints with RL friends, but I still have concerns about the current state of the game and the future of it. Does that make me a "bad teammate"? I don't think it does.

 

From a certain perspective it may seem attractive to have a smaller, stronger community. But which is better? A small community that likes the majority of the game or a large one that likes the state of the game? The latter is indeed possible. It's just harder work. But the benefits far exceed having a much smaller playerbase.

 

In the end, all MMO's have playerbases that distill down to a "core" subset. But there is a tipping point between having a content "core" playerbase that keeps the service afloat, and one that is too small to do so.

 

Of course, that's assuming that the service isn't being run by a company whose other products are helping to keep that service going (such as SOE and EQ2).

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Norumaniac]

Actually I just play my level 41 main or 31 alt a few hours a week. I nibble away at the content and savor it. I havent even started anything Emperial side yet. I suppose the lack of "training" would make me a scrub baddie but I don't care, I'm not bored and bitter so I win.

 

 

Cool then.

 

This game is totally casual oriented, and thats ok.

[Tarka]

I have played just about every MMO that has come down the line since EQ1.

 

Been trying to figure out what it is about TOR that leaves me with such conflicting thoughts.....by conflicting I mean ..........

 

-one one hand, without a doubt it has given me the most enjoyable leveling experience of any MMO I have played

 

-yet on the other hand, I have never lost interest in continuing to progress my character as quickly and abruptly as I have in TOR after hitting level cap >

 

Could it be a lack of emotional attachment to your character and the environment?

 

I am left with thinking that BW should have just made SWTOR be "KOTOR 3" ...then we would be talking about one of the best single player games ever.

 

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps had KOTOR 3 included a multiplayer element, just like ME3 is doing, then perhaps the two would have been jostling to be the best RPG game for quite some time.

 

Right now, the current state of the game puts it squarely between being the single player RPG, and capturing the "essence" of a true MMORPG. It's neither one, nor the other. It's as if it is struggling to find it's identity.

 

A closet MMORPG lol.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Bulldogs_Rule]

And you are on the forums because? you have no interest in swtor right..

 

Actually I'm in the forums because I don't want to start up and then 15 minutes later have to shut down because I need to fill out some paperwork. Easier to do that with the forums. Can't do the paperwork til I get the info I need.

[Draylore]

Could it be a lack of emotional attachment to your character and the environment?

 

 

Perhaps. Its not so much "emotional" attachment......I am the sort that really never reaches that in video games. However, I do ...albeit rarely find myself immersed in virtual worlds for the few hours a day I am "in them"....TOR while leveling up for me did that very well.. But again....after reaching level cap....that immersion runs out quickly.

 

I keep coming back to the huge contrast in game quality. TOR provides something different and unique for the leveling process and does it very well.....yet ends up being nothing more than a poor copy of <insert MMO> once the leveling process is over.

[Tarka]

Perhaps. Its not so much "emotional" attachment......I am the sort that really never reaches that in video games. However, I do ...albeit rarely find myself immersed in virtual worlds for the few hours a day I am "in them"....TOR while leveling up for me did that very well.. But again....after reaching level cap....that immersion runs out quickly.

 

I keep coming back to the huge contrast in game quality. TOR provides something different and unique for the leveling process and does it very well.....yet ends up being nothing more than a poor copy of <insert MMO> once the leveling process is over.

 

That's what I'm referring to when I say "emotional attachment". That feeling you get when you feel like you are INSIDE a living, breathing virtual environment. And the urge you get to be in there as much as possible.

 

When one reaches end game, their focus shifts from the leveling process and begins to analyse what is keeping them entertained and encouraging them to log in continuously. But once you strip away the "class story", one can find that there really isn't much to the game that encourages people to do just that.

 

The game is lacking "soul" beyond the class story. At least, that's how it appears to me.

 

And I'm not convinced that just throwing more flashpoints, warzones or operations at it will remedy that. Because that's like having a bowl of peaches and pears, and after thinking that you need more variety, you end up just putting more peaches in the bowl. All that's occurred is greater quantity, not variety.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Draylore]

That's what I'm referring to when I say "emotional attachment". That feeling you get when you feel like you are INSIDE a living, breathing virtual environment. And the urge you get to be in there as much as possible.

 

When one reaches end game, their focus shifts from the leveling process and begins to analyse what is keeping them entertained and encouraging them to log in continuously. But once you strip away the "class story", one can find that there really isn't much to the game that encourages people to do just that.

 

The game is lacking "soul" beyond the class story. At least, that's how it appears to me.

 

And I'm not convinced that just throwing more flashpoints, warzones or operations at it will remedy that. Because that's like having a bowl of peaches and pears, and after thinking that you need more variety, you end up just putting more peaches in the bowl. All that's occurred is greater quantity, not variety.

 

Yeah I agree.

 

Hard to say what if anything they can do to fix the problem. It may just be that we players need to approach the game differently than we are used too....i.e I can see myself playing this game for 2-3 months after each expansion then doing something else until the next. Course that brings be back to it having a subscription model.......given what the game has turned out to be and what it will mostly likely continue to be I really would have preferred a DLC model....only paying for each expansion or major update.

 

More flashpoints wont help much but more flashpoints with really involved story elements might. I was really disappointed when I saw the contrast in quality between the 2 beginner flashpoints (BT, Ess) and the others. In the end, for better or for worse SWTOR is a story driven game.......they need to expand that soon or people will rapidly lose interest.

[Master-Nala]

It's not as "black and white" as that. For instance, I log into the game to play flashpoints with RL friends, but I still have concerns about the current state of the game and the future of it. Does that make me a "bad teammate"? I don't think it does.

 

You're correct, but you don't seem to be on the verge of quitting and you are making reasoned posts discussing issues with the game. I love SWTOR, but I certainly think it has its share of flaws and badly needed improvements. But I'm not anywhere near quitting.

 

Some folks have said they quit or are considering it. I think they should go. There's no purpose in being in a game that makes you unhappy. If you like the game, but think it can improve then, of course, you're probably going to be a fine teammate.

[Tarka]

Yeah I agree.

 

Hard to say what if anything they can do to fix the problem. It may just be that we players need to approach the game differently than we are used too....i.e I can see myself playing this game for 2-3 months after each expansion then doing something else until the next. Course that brings be back to it having a subscription model.......given what the game has turned out to be and what it will mostly likely continue to be I really would have preferred a DLC model....only paying for each expansion or major update.

 

This is the mindset that myself and my friends are reaching. It's become quite apparent that devs in general are just incapable of making a decent MMO from the outset with content that keeps the average player amused for longer than about 2 months.

 

So, when we grow bored of it, and tired of expressing our concerns in the forums (and consequently being attacked by fanboys for not thinking the devs are gods), then we'll move on like the rest. Probably never to return because there's always something new on the horizon.

 

More flashpoints wont help much but more flashpoints with really involved story elements might. I was really disappointed when I saw the contrast in quality between the 2 beginner flashpoints (BT, Ess) and the others. In the end, for better or for worse SWTOR is a story driven game.......they need to expand that soon or people will rapidly lose interest.

 

In my opinion, BT was great the first couple of times. But now, as we are running it on HM mode for the items, the sheer amount of voice over has become quite tiresome and annoying. The later FP's aren't as bad as BT.

 

From my perspective, expanding the story won't solve much at this time. yes, ultimately the "world story arc" it will need to progress, but it needs interesting content to go with it. And rolling out FP's with a bit of story and VO tagged on is just more of the same that's already in the game. If all that was needed is more of the same, then perhaps people would be less inclined to show their concern for the game as a whole.

 

This game has so much potential. But Bioware don't really seem to be showing much inclination to realising that potential. They seem to want to stay in their comfort zone of adding more warzones, fp's and operations with a bit of story. I'm even skeptical about what they said about developing space and creating a more "player driven economy" because what is already in the game doesn't really lend itself to accomplishing that goal.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka