Abelf Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 TLDR at bottom! My basic question: Are the cumulative costs of monthly subscriptions congruent with the amount of content and services provided? So, what does our money buy? #1 It pays for server operating costs and customer service I looked for an item in EA's latest quarterly report that would cover server costs, but all of the items were of the "condensed" variety and offered no single number to reference. So, let's use ActivisionBlizzard's MMO-related costs, since EA and ActiBlizz are both behemoths and can conceivably have the same cost structure. $58M for 3 months. Or approximately $20M every month. With a 10M user-base, that comes out to $2 a month per user. #2 Patches The $13 left over after figuring in operating expenses goes to content updates. This probably shouldn't include too many balance tweaks or bug fixes, because other games do this for free (most of the time). Later this month, we expect 1.2 to drop. Containing: New WZ New FP New Dailies More gear Crafting additions Legacy features UI Improvements (pretty much just a "fix" though) Guild banks Etc, Etc Quite a lot of content, to be sure. However, it has taken 4 months or $60 worth of subscription fees to get this and previous additions of content. $8 ($2 per month X 4 months) goes to server and customer service costs... leaving us with $52 for this amount of content. Yes, we received the first month for free, but we will not in the future. $52 is pretty much an entire game worth of content. Are we getting an entire game of content for our money? Disclaimer #1: My numbers are subject to debate. In general, they should at least be a ballpark of the actual numbers. Disclaimer #2: I am still subscribing. So, this isn't a treatise for or against this game as a whole. It simply concerns content added post-launch. TLDR $15 per month. $2 goes to operating costs. $13 goes to content. Including all of the content through patch 1.2 (4 months from launch), have we received $52 worth of content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackZoback Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 TLDR $15 per month. $2 goes to operating costs. $13 goes to content. Including all of the content through patch 1.2 (4 months from launch), have we received $52 worth of content? Considering all that 1.2 might have in it, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanshan Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Considering all that 1.2 might have in it, yes. And what OP said is only features that have announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testdept Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 No.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxPetexX Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 At this current time... NO. We'll see in a month ot two which is all I'm prepared to give it, anything more than 3 months after launch for a game to be in a worthy state isn't acceptable. Serer merges has become a priority fix now too. logged on to play an hours before work just now and had 8 ppl on the fleet. MMO my arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 $15 per month. $2 goes to operating costs. $13 goes to content. Including all of the content through patch 1.2, have we received $52 worth of content? I'm not entirely sure about your $13 (Content) + $2 (Operating costs) = $15 math but I'll respond anyway. $57 (after taxes) < $66 (after tax) for a brand new single player game that I won't play but for two months, three at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackZoback Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 And what OP said is only features that have announced. Even if it's just those, the answer is still yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelf Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Even if it's just those, the answer is still yes. I'm sure BW has a few more reveals for 1.2. Even if they do not, 1.2 is pretty content-packed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Depends on the individual. I'm still leveling my main and several alts, so it's worth it to me. The 1.2 content will be added before my main is 50, guaranteed. I get to play around in a SW universe with friends and experience story content that I enjoy, and blow up stuff in my free time. It might not be so much worth it to people who focus more on the endgame. Sounds like it isn't fully developed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roechacca Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 is gas worth 4.50 a gallon? I like Star Wars and driving to work to so I get paid to play Star Wars. The world has me hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) what?? yes it is.. If you want to sit their and do nothing then it will be boring and you would be better spending it on the cinema.. If you want to actively engage with others and run some flash points it's fantastic value for money. 16 days played so far on my main and far more entertaining and cost effective then portal 2. IMO I think the only thing this thread is going to lead to is trolling. Edited March 1, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Using Blizzard's numbers are a bit suspect, due to huge volume differences. I would argue that BW's costs are much higher right now, than Blizz's with over 7 years of support. The longer a product is on the market, the less it costs to maintain. So, I would say that we are paying much more in support costs and less in development at this point. So, is 1.2 worth the money? All of the monetary conjecture aside, that will all depend on the consumer and his continued "enjoyment factor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSlayAlot Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hell no... this game is hella boring and considering Guild Wars 2 is going to be free.... this game will either die a violent death when GW2 comes out or it goes f2p as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConspicuousTree Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Don't really see your point. Even if it is only worth $15, bear in mind that most games ever would probably still draw even with development costs if they sold hard copies for $15. Why do they sell for $30/45? To make an extra $15/30. Draw even with costs... And then make profit. That's called business. I suspect you will also be exaggerating the issue, as there will be more relevant costs that we haven't thought of or that have been overlooked. Believe me when I say the difference will be made up by a requirement in business to make profit. Yes, that's a requirement. Businesses have to make profit in order to satisfy shareholder agreements and to make sure they don't revolt. Businesses like EA and Activision are the type to sieze every opportunity to scrape an extra cent. And clearly, it worked. Subscriptions are the same, except they cost less than the game itself because upkeep costs less per month than development did. If you're under the illusion that you pay directly and only for content & server upkeep with your subscriptions - that's dead wrong. There's a reason these companies make multimillion/billion profits, you know. Edited March 1, 2012 by ConspicuousTree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelf Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Don't really see your point. Even if it is only worth $15, bear in mind that most games ever would probably still draw even with development costs if they sold hard copies for $15. Why do they sell for $30/45? To make an extra $15/30. Draw even with costs... And then make profit. That's called business. I suspect you will also be exaggerating the issue, as there will be more relevant costs that we haven't thought of or that have been overlooked. Believe me when I say the difference will be made up by a requirement in business to make profit. Yes, that's a requirement. Businesses have to make profit in order to satisfy shareholder agreements and to make sure they don't revolt. Businesses like EA and Activision are the type to sieze every opportunity to scrape an extra cent. And clearly, it worked. Subscriptions are the same, except they cost less than the game itself because upkeep costs less per month than development did. If you're under the illusion that you pay directly and only for content & server upkeep with your subscriptions - that's dead wrong. There's a reason these companies make multimillion/billion profits, you know. Three things: 1. I was considering the perceived value of a game, so profits are less relevant. 2. My numbers are ballparks. The operating costs are probably higher for BW than ActiBlizz due to economies of scale. Lucas Arts gets a % of the sub fee, most likely. But, the breakdown is from the customer's perspective. So, in exchange for $15 a month we get content and service. Content just happens to cost more because of the royalty fees. 3. EA lost money last quarter.... not too sure they like those "profits" you speak of. Loljk. Edited March 1, 2012 by Abelf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Hell no... this game is hella boring and considering Guild Wars 2 is going to be free.... this game will either die a violent death when GW2 comes out or it goes f2p as well Good morning Mr. PaleGreen: I am willing to make a bet that SWTOR will not die or change to f2p when GW2 launches. If I win, you will promise to stop posting in any color other than white. If you win, I will buy you a GW2-themed stuffed animal of your choice. Edited March 1, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConspicuousTree Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) 1. I was considering the perceived value of a game, so profits are less relevant. I... Suppose? I mean, I'm not sure if there's much point to saying "It's worth 15$" when that's not what we pay and everything else is a matter of opinion. 2. As are mine, especially since I've put them in dollars and I pay in pounds <cough>. I suppose there's something to it customer perspective, but I'm not sure if it's worth picking apart when behind the scenes that money's going to many places that aren't content/service. 3. EA lost money last quarter.... not too sure they like those "profits" you speak of. Loljk. Hee. Karma for Origin. Edited March 1, 2012 by ConspicuousTree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hell no... this game is hella boring and considering Guild Wars 2 is going to be free.... this game will either die a violent death when GW2 comes out or it goes f2p as well. Yet you still play. I cant even fathom the amount of sorrow and misery you will undoubtedly feel once you realize that you are just plain wrong, i can already see the tears in that little cave of yours. GW2 won't hurt SWTOR whatsoever, hopefully the likes of you will be gone from this forum by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inixus Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 At this current time... NO. We'll see in a month ot two which is all I'm prepared to give it, anything more than 3 months after launch for a game to be in a worthy state isn't acceptable. Serer merges has become a priority fix now too. logged on to play an hours before work just now and had 8 ppl on the fleet. MMO my arse this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitar Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) No... Why on earth pay a monthly fee to beta test a first person shooter with crappy graphics, numerous bugs (still waiting on a fix for the trooper class quest line BTW), a dead/sterile/bland game environment, simplistic combat mechanics, that has limited replay value since 80+% of the quests are exactly the same for each class? Took the monthly fee money saved, ordered another game to tide me over...MAYBE come back to this one in 6 months or a year when some of the major bugs have been worked out and it is either F2P or patched to the point of playability. Edited March 1, 2012 by Smitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 TLDR $15 per month. $2 goes to operating costs. $13 goes to content. Including all of the content through patch 1.2 (4 months from launch), have we received $52 worth of content? You can't accurately say if TOR is worth its subscription fee, simply because it's completely subjective. For a hardcore end-gamer, I would say that no, it is currently not worth the money. For a more casual story-oriented leveler like me, it most definitely is. It all boils down to the enjoyment you're getting out of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConspicuousTree Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 No... (...) Took the monthly fee money saved, ordered another game to tide me over...MAYBE come back to this one in 6 months or a year when some of the major bugs have been worked out and it is either F2P or patched to the point of playability. So, to clarify, the only reason you're on the forums is to complain loudly about a game you're no longer playing? And I thought I had spare time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 For me it's most definitely worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamsterboom Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 i don't know. i have been in game since early access , still have not got a max level character, i get bored around 35-40 as all there is is questing.. looking for fp's is a joke as you have to whisper everyone around your level to see if they want to go which is a time burner and annoying .. crafting is pathetic in most game crafting is supposed to be a time taker .. so that have to play the game consistently you have stuff to do and materials to gather.. with the whole companions doing it ..meh all the game has is story .. there nothing fun to do sideways like little fun story lines or side quests . ever RP is kind of not worth it due to the fact that rp items are bantha fodder and chat bubbles are no where to be seen yet . pvp is ok but gets boring fast .. i am not even sure why i am still even paying a sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConspicuousTree Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can't accurately say if TOR is worth its subscription fee, simply because it's completely subjective. For a hardcore end-gamer, I would say that no, it is currently not worth the money. For a more casual story-oriented leveler like me, it most definitely is. It all boils down to the enjoyment you're getting out of the game ^ this For me it's most definitely worth it. ^ personally, this. I've enjoyed the story, the roleplay and to a certain extent I actually like the combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts