Is dual spec fair to pure damage classes?

[DarthSeidhr]

My personal opinion is no.

 

The gunslinger/sniper and sentinel/marauder have three trees that all do one thing - damage. All of the other AC's have access to some combination of damage, tanking, and healing. Dual specialization will be much more useful for these classes than for pure damage classes. For example, my mercenary being able to switch between damage and healing will be immensely more useful than my gunslinger being able to switch between damage and... oh yeah, a slightly different method of dealing damage.

 

So why do I think this is a problem? What I foresee is pure AC's being less desirable for operations and flashpoints due to their lower adaptive utility. Under a worst case scenario the pure AC's will be excluded by guilds or groups due to their lack of adaptability. Just think about it. Who would you rather have with you in a group, a mercenary that can DPS or heal depending on the needs of the encounter, or a sniper whose only option is DPS?

 

So what can be done about this? One option would be to revamp one trees from each pure DPS AC to give it significant utility, but this would be a lot of time and work. Another option would be to disallow changing specializations mid instance. In other words, if someone leaves the instance to change specialization they can't get back in. The instance would have to be reset and the group would have to start over from the beginning.

 

/Discuss

[Dekai]

I'll just say the same thing everyone else has said.

 

"Pure DPS" classes can still take advantage of it just as any other class, especially if you PvP and PvE. If you choose not to play the game fully to take advantage of Dual Spec as a"Pure DPS", then you won't even notice nor care about it.

[Icebaron]

You miss the flip side of that though, in the event of a shortage of tanks or healers, dual specs that can spec into healing or tanking are EXPECTED to heal or tank. As a pure damage class, nobody expects you to play something you would rather not play.

[Mezla]

Yes, it is.

[Nitewolfe]

My personal opinion is no.

 

The gunslinger/sniper and sentinel/marauder have three trees that all do one thing - damage. All of the other AC's have access to some combination of damage, tanking, and healing. Dual specialization will be much more useful for these classes than for pure damage classes. For example, my mercenary being able to switch between damage and healing will be immensely more useful than my gunslinger being able to switch between damage and... oh yeah, a slightly different method of dealing damage.

 

So why do I think this is a problem? What I foresee is pure AC's being less desirable for operations and flashpoints due to their lower adaptive utility. Under a worst case scenario the pure AC's will be excluded by guilds or groups due to their lack of adaptability. Just think about it. Who would you rather have with you in a group, a mercenary that can DPS or heal depending on the needs of the encounter, or a sniper whose only option is DPS?

 

So what can be done about this? One option would be to revamp one trees from each pure DPS AC to give it significant utility, but this would be a lot of time and work. Another option would be to disallow changing specializations mid instance. In other words, if someone leaves the instance to change specialization they can't get back in. The instance would have to be reset and the group would have to start over from the beginning.

 

/Discuss

 

The very fact that pure dps can not be asked to do any thing but dps is why i will have one as a main when dual specs happen!

[KahnyaGnorc]

You miss the flip side of that though, in the event of a shortage of tanks or healers, dual specs that can spec into healing or tanking are EXPECTED to heal or tank. As a pure damage class, nobody expects you to play something you would rather not play.

 

This is part of the reason I am wary of dual-speccing. My Guardian is a tank, Scoundrel is dps, and Sage is healer. Not even sure if I am going to dual-spec any of them; although, I know that people run with groups that would force folks like me to dual-spec my characters.

[newwb]

i agree. its pretty lame that pure dps classes only get one skill tree while everyone else gets 3

[Azumio]

Operative/Scoundrel > Sniper/Gunslinger

 

Juggernaut/Guardian > Sentinel/Marauder

 

It's just a continuation of the slap in the face those four classes get anyway.

 

I figured pure DPS classes should be the top dog when it comes to DPS, but I guess I was wrong about that.

[Ganjiang]

Seems fair to me. Pure DPS classes still benefit from having a dual-spec. You'll be able to have different builds for PvE/PvP etc, and you'll never be bothered by anyone to swap roles. If someone chose a Sentinel or Gunslinger as their AC, it's evident they had no intention of tanking/healing anyway considering that changing specs is already present in the game.

[Pinguaq]

My personal opinion is no.

...

/Discuss

 

FWIW, in forum nomenclature the "/" indicates an end tag. When you type /Discuss you are saying "end of discuss(ion)".

 

On topic, people who want to DPS only can choose a pure DPS class and never be expected to do something else. However, they still have the option of spec'ing differently to take advantage of different play styles and different talents available in tree's that may be more effective in certain situations.

[Ganjiang]

i agree. its pretty lame that pure dps classes only get one skill tree while everyone else gets 3

 

Which pure DPS class only has one skill tree?

[AsheraII]

Oh, just wait for it, pure AC's will use dual spec as well: one for PvE and the other for PvP, which in turn creates new complaints from the dual-role AC's: "we have to use one AC for healing(tanking) and the other for DPS, and have to pay for respecs when we want to PvP as well!" That's on top of their complaint that Dualspec is too expensive ofcourse. Trust me, I've seen it all before, including these exact complaints.

 

But, for your pure AC, consider this: how much alike are the 3 talent trees you have available? Sure, they're all for the same class, so they won't be that far apart in gamemechanics. But still they are different. Look through them, and you'll find that one is slightly stronger on single-target DPS, another has slightly better AOE capabilities, while the third seems inbetween, but actually also has some slightly increased crowd control. Depending on the encounter, one spec can pull well ahead of the other two, but anothr encounter down the road, another spec can perform better, or be more desirable. There's variation even in just dealing damage!

[Makar]

If you didn't think it was fair that you had no alternative but to DPS, then you should've picked a different AC.

[DarthSeidhr]

Some people have brought up valid points.

 

1. Pure DPS AC's can still use dual spec to have a PvP spec.

 

While I agree that this is useful it doesn't mitigate the fact that the non-pure AC's can do the same thing or use their dual spec to be able to fill a different role. The non-pure AC's still gain a huge utility boost where the pure AC's don't.

 

2. Pure DPS AC's can never be asked to do anything but DPS. So if you play a non-pure AC you could be asked or expected to fill a role that you don't enjoy.

 

I'll admit that this is pretty annoying. I played a warrior and a death knight in WoW and I was routinely expected to be able to tank, and I hated tanking. But at least in WoW I was able to say "sorry, I don't have any tanking gear" and that doesn't fly so much in TOR.

[KorbinArmand]

What OP fails to understand is Dual Spec is NOT for tank/heal spec'ing its to give people chance to play more than one spec, often Tank/heal and a dps spec but NOT SOLELY FOR THAT REASON!

 

Thus some that is pure dps can have Pve/PvP while remember a Guardian can still have PvE Dps/PvP spec and no time be a tank...

[Shinybum]

I looked at one of those guild application forms once, and saw the question, "Would you be willing to respec if it was deemed necessary to raid with us?" All that meant to me was "Are you willing to regear and learn a new style of play different from the one you feel good enough at to raid in just so you can be in our gang?"

 

I closed the tab, and moved on. I don't want to be in anybody's gang *that* much.

[Mysquine]

Snipers = Insane Damage

 

Marauders = Insane Damage

 

Would be silly not to take them along with the utilities provided from Sentinels / Marauders for Defense / speed increase and Snipers with their 20% reduction in damage shield and 5% Crit buff.

[Icebaron]

If you didn't think it was fair that you had no alternative but to DPS, then you should've picked a different AC.

 

Not really a fair option. Maybe they like the marauder play style, only way to dual weild.

 

But I do stick to my origninal thought, pure damage classes have advantages to dual spec.

 

Multiple specs for pve and pvp, where a hybrid has to pick on.

Not expected to tank or heal, where a hybrid would be expected to.

Less responsibility in a flashpoint or operation, being they are always one of the most abundant types there. (one bad dps wont cause a wipe, one bad tank will).

 

Besides all that, it doesnt really harm damage dealers that much, whereas a hybrid MUST live with a chosen role. If he goes tank, he sucks at grinding. If he goes damage, he can never tank.

[Fumanchu_Fow]

If you didn't think it was fair that you had no alternative but to DPS, then you should've picked a different AC.

 

You mean like all the people that cried it was unfair they had to pay to respec each time? We all made a choice but only the pure DPS classes are getting screwed over by the developers on this one.

[KorbinArmand]

Not really a fair option. Maybe they like the marauder play style, only way to dual weild.

 

But I do stick to my origninal thought, pure damage classes have advantages to dual spec.

 

Multiple specs for pve and pvp, where a hybrid has to pick on.

Not expected to tank or heal, where a hybrid would be expected to.

Less responsibility in a flashpoint or operation, being they are always one of the most abundant types there. (one bad dps wont cause a wipe, one bad tank will).

 

Besides all that, it doesnt really harm damage dealers that much, whereas a hybrid MUST live with a chosen role. If he goes tank, he sucks at grinding. If he goes damage, he can never tank.

 

Nature of the beast, even right now, a Pure Dps can spec pvp and still do decent enough in PvE to skim by and still have best of both worlds, while a tank/healer cant.

 

Dual Spec creates no more amount of advantages/disadvantages simple chances which ones.

[DarthSeidhr]

What OP fails to understand is Dual Spec is NOT for tank/heal spec'ing its to give people chance to play more than one spec, often Tank/heal and a dps spec but NOT SOLELY FOR THAT REASON!

 

Thus some that is pure dps can have Pve/PvP while remember a Guardian can still have PvE Dps/PvP spec and no time be a tank...

 

So you say that I fail to understand that dual spec is not for having a DPS and a tank/heal spec, but then you immediately state it will often be used for that... I think you fail at not contradicting yourself.

[KurleyKilla]

I want dual spec on my sentinel... I don't feel it is unfair.

 

If you think completely changing your role in a party is the only reason someone would want two specs then you don't know much about building a good character.

 

 

I would even do 2 specs if I went down the same basic path.

 

for example. I could spec my tactics vanguard to excel in PVP or spec him to excel more in a PVE setting. But still mainly go down the tactics path.

 

In WoW I was holy spec for both specs.

 

I absolutely had to have a spec for arena.

 

and I absolutely had to have a different spec for Raid healing.

 

Both where still a healing role, and both where down the "holy" path.

Edited March 1, 2012 by KurleyKilla

[Fumanchu_Fow]

Nature of the beast, even right now, a Pure Dps can spec pvp and still do decent enough in PvE to skim by and still have best of both worlds, while a tank/healer cant.

 

Dual Spec creates no more amount of advantages/disadvantages simple chances which ones.

 

Complete bs. So you are saying that a pure DPS can choose to have a PVE and a PVP spec. A non pure DPS can also choose to have a PVE and PVP spec or they can choose 2 PVE specs. They still have more options than a pure DPS class and bioware using AC as their line in the sand when they've given in to the dual spec whining is just arbitrary.

[Mysquine]

Complete bs. So you are saying that a pure DPS can choose to have a PVE and a PVP spec. A non pure DPS can also choose to have a PVE and PVP spec or they can choose 2 PVE specs. They still have more options than a pure DPS class and bioware using AC as their line in the sand when they've given in to the dual spec whining is just arbitrary.

 

Honestly, whats the problem? You've rolled a pure DPS class, and you do your job. Marauders and snipers are some of the highest dps characters - I mean if you didn't want to do damage then you probably chose the wrong class.

 

I can see why you might be annoyed as you feel like you are limited, but if your not happy with it then your best answer might be to reroll. WoW had the exact same for Rogues and Hunters, its not like this is anything new.

 

Also a Pure DPS class can choose to have two PvP builds or two PvE builds, one build might have a couple of different talents compared to the other one for certain situations ect, so its possible.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Mysquine

[KorbinArmand]

Complete bs. So you are saying that a pure DPS can choose to have a PVE and a PVP spec. A non pure DPS can also choose to have a PVE and PVP spec or they can choose 2 PVE specs. They still have more options than a pure DPS class and bioware using AC as their line in the sand when they've given in to the dual spec whining is just arbitrary.

 

Umm NO re-read, im SAYING RIGHT NOW!! without dual spec, a PURE DPS can be spec'd PVP and still do PvE and PvP decent, while a Tank/Healer spec'd PvP CANT effectively do PvE.

 

So point is...Pure DPS have advantage NOW and Dual spec will only change HOW they have advantage not AMOUNT of advantage they HAVE!

 

So you say that I fail to understand that dual spec is not for having a DPS and a tank/heal spec, but then you immediately state it will often be used for that... I think you fail at not contradicting yourself.

 

No I am saying that Dual spec is not designed for ONLY Tank/Heals to be able to have a spec OTHER than tank/heal it is designed to all ALL CLASS's a chance to have 2nd spec so that they may enjoy more aspects of the game WITHOUT great cost.

 

If you remember why WoW introduced it, was because Dev's acknowledged that you cant do PvE and PvP in same spec, and in order to raid someone needed to be Tank/Heals yet questing/Dailies were HORRIBLE in those specs, thus Dual spec allowed you customize abit without having to pay Zillions in Gold to enjoy the game.

Edited March 1, 2012 by KorbinArmand