The thing is, I'm not saying I never liked the game at all for even a moment. I had a couple glowing recommendations from friends who, like yourself. Had only played a small portion of the game, and found it extremely fun! (they aren't playing anymore) I have a lvl 46 vanguard and 2 lvl 20 something toons. Obviously at certain points there was fun to be had. Warzones were fun for me, I love pvp.. That is what I do. Problem though... the game doesn't let you duel anywhere? Warzone lag was near unbearable at the beginning and has only become slightly better. Ability delay also cast a cloud over the PVP experience. The flashpoints were alright at first too, plenty of fun to be had (even though they are really NO DIFFERENT from a WoW instance). Until I encountered those line of site bugs, and eventually when my server population dwindled... no teams forming!... why no LFG tool? I really don't get that... It's on the way I know but... *** dude... You have a warzone queue for similar reasons... ??!?? Add in the high rez texture debacle and biowares disgusting denial of ability delay and performance issues... and you have one pissed off consumer. I really and truly cannot understand how anyone who has "taste" (of course taste is a subjective thing) can tolerate this game in the long term. Yes people will have their fun for a little while, but if you are hardcore. (yes 4 hours a day, say what you like but.. I have a full time job and a girlfriend) their is nothing to keep you playing this game. Not right now anyway... and I am totally unwilling to pay money to wait for something to be good. The little pictures that show your talent skills are recycled between the various classes... Do most people care about that? Probably not... But things like that add flavor to the different classes... Do most people who aren't gamers even know about the High Res texture debacle or even understand it at all? Apparently not... They called High Res textures a bug... I do not and WILL not tolerate these things... as a long time consumer of the industry... and knowing what else is out there, why would I?

I have given many constructive criticisms on how to improve this game. LFG tool is on the way. Cross server WZ also on the way. Really though I shouldn't have to be a major part in developing and fixing this game that is so severely lacking... They really didn't think people would want a LFG queue??? They had a WZ queue...... As a consumer who invested over 100 dollars to purchase and play the game including game time... I'm not interested in constructively telling them all the ways they have a ****ed up... I will just move on when my time runs out. And nowhere in my post did I say anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot... I basically said different strokes for different folks... Are you familiar with what a "strawman" is?

If you actually know the definition of the word.... none of what you quoted is ignorant... edit: This is actually another reason I believe this game is doomed. Those that don't like it can calmly explain why and give good examples. A lot of the people who do.. will immediately attack you and then not really respond to any of your arguments with legitimate counter-points....

I think all the Doom talk is because the game really isn't very good. And a HUGE number of people have a lot to complain about. Yes there are many people who do like it... There is a group of people who like virtually anything you can think of on the planet. (This is in anticipation of all the people who will go "WELL DURR I DUNNO WUT UR PROBLEM IS BUT I LUV THIS GAME DURRR IZ SO GOOD LIGHTSABRES PEW PEW I HATE WOW"... even though this game is really very similar to WoW in MANY MANY aspects) Most people who disregard all these complaints as people being "spoiled" or "used to WoW" are extremely ignorant. Here are 2 forum threads that can give you an idea of what people are talking about. And why they firmly believe that the game is on a downward trend into oblivion or f2p http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=233714 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1478869 (Can't find original "ability delay" thread) It is also important to note that Bioware completely denied any of these things where even problems in the first place. (for example they claimed only 5% of people actually had performance issues... they also originally claimed High res textures being in the game at all was a bug in the first place... They also originally denied the existence of Ability delay...) Really there are many more things about the game that are contributing to this but... The reality is a lot of people including myself who are very avid gamers who demand quality and are willing to pay top dollar for what we want.... DO NOT LIKE THIS GAME. Like I said before though... some do... many people also play farmville... Normally a game just not being very good wouldn't be grounds to write it off so quickly.. But this game supposedly had a budget of over 500 million dollars, (who knows what numbers are accurate) was very highly anticipated and made a whole lot of claims during development about how different it was going to be compared to most MMO's... It really let a lot of people down.

Hmm.. I try not to think about SWTOR anymore I just get angry. Just gonna say... The game is not very good if you really know what else is out there.

I'v played too many MMO's to list... what do I think about swtor? The bad - Storylines are highly overrated... (please people... they aren't good... you have low standards for fiction) - Graphics definitely are sub par... They took away high res textures ffs, anti aliasing took how long? - Very little open world MMO feeling to be had in this game. - No LFG tool has really (at least on my server) made it very difficult to experience the FP content as much as I need to in order to acquire the gear I want. The good - Gameplay itself is very standard and acceptable to me for an MMO. (Even though in reality it is the complete opposite of what they claimed it was going to be from the outset) - Lightsabres?

1: No they do not provide lots of experience... The time it takes me to shout for someone I can pass right over this quest and move on my merry way leveling faster then you. 2: No... They do not award enough credits to make the time worthwhile... There are wayyyy faster ways to make money. 3: Lots of things grant you legacy... and commendations... 4: I haven't hung on to any gear rewards I have received from a heroic quest... not a single one. Nor is there any reason to.... Therefore no reason for me to waste my time in the first place. Basically they are pointless any way you look at them. 1 reason to do them is that I guess they are a little different from the regular quests in that they have heroic monsters... NOPE not worth it... The real question I think is.... Why bother doing them at all? They are not AT ALL the key to the fastest way of leveling.

Lol I never mentioned WoW... but really it had double the players SWTOR did in the first 3 months...? Doesn't that just make things look worse? I don't get your point... "FFs wait"? "The game will be good LATER"... are you serious!!!? Do you really not see a problem with that? That is absolutely insane to me.. The game is 15 dollars a month, and 69 dollars too buy... and I have to wait for it to actually be good.... and I'm a "rage kid" for thinking that is stupid!? Give your head a shake. I am not even talking about end game content.... The game has a myriad of issues from bugs and graphic issues, to the broken gameplay issues such as ability delay, warzone lag, all the FP with those Line of sight bugs that still exist since launch... and yes the end game PVP planet of Ilum.... etc etc etc Wait for it to get good?..... you must be trolling..

Well actually even if you take the stats they give as fact, the player population is dropping. 2 mil to 1.7 mil etc etc What is up for debate is how big of a drop that is. To say the game is "rapidly growing" at this point is completely false. It must be nice to actually have this game be enough for you though. Unfortunately I have been exposed to so many games over the course of my life I cannot tolerate the things I see in this game. (big story on the way? Do you have autism? Have you ever read a decent book in your entire life? or played a decent single player RPG with a solid narrative IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE!?) You can't wait for patch 1.2 because the game is an incomplete joke of an MMO.... everything coming in patch 1.2 should have been out on release... can you imagine what some other developers could have accomplished with the budget SWTOR had?... probably *********** not... My grandpa would be blown away by this game too.

Yea the thing about the subscription numbers (statistics) they release is that... they don't actually mean much of anything. I think last I heard it was 1.7 million? I paid for 60 days of game time up front, meaning I am still technically subscribed. As are at least 4 people that I know. None of us are currently playing. BUT, we are still part of that statistic... we are considered paying subscribers... the same is true for many many people. Shadowtown, my server of choice has on average at peak times 50-60 people in fleet, my guild "Curb your Imperialism" used to be one of the higher population guilds on the server. I am not exaggerating when I say that near the end of my time playing SWTOR. I logged into the game regularly with 0 guildies..... (the guild has over 100 members) call me ignorant but... I have never in my life seen that first hand. Even if I talk in general chat and ask Un-Biased people playing the game... they tell me that population has dropped, but they believe it is just the server. For them to use the 1.7 million subscriber statistic as a representation of the success of this broken game is laughable.... it really doesn't mean anything... I am currently a paid subscriber until my card runs out... as are most of my friends who decided to throw caution to the wind and buy 60 days up front.... I lasted longer then anyone I know... the rest have long moved on. Edit: and yes of course some people like the game... There is a certain group of people that like virtually anything you can think of in the world... But even people who like aspects of the game can admit that it is severely lacking in many areas. I gave it a very fair shake, and ya know.. It was not bad for a little bit... but to pay 15 dollars a month for this garbage is insane...Ilum doesn't even work at all.. come on people...

Finding a laptop for 700$ or less to play WoW is extremely easy.... SWTOR on the other hand is another story.... You may be able to find one that will play it.. (as in... the game will start up.. and run a bit..) But it will probably run like garbage. Even though I exceed the recommended requirements by a fair margin, game runs like a stuttering grandpa. Good luck. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=194358

Really? They have to start paying once they get to lvl 10? or the first planet? That takes like an hour.... People are gonna hate this game more after such a weak trial....

I am certainly interested to see, I don't know about necessarily a "mass exodus". I do know that I have not seen so much backlash about such a highly anticipated and expensive MMO in my lifetime. (Hellgate London was the worst release I have ever experienced but that wasn't an MMO) I have also never seen my particularly chubby and sweaty nerd friend quit a game he was so excited for that fast. I wonder if leading up to the quarterly announcement they will have some other trial period for players... and in turn add those numbers to statistics... While statistics can be extremely valuable, they are also notorious for being a means that people use to make false and misleading arguments. The game is by most accounts... pretty bad...

Well its not "false" reporting... as I am still technically "subscribed"... and while these numbers may be important to ignorant shareholders who are not gamers. The main point is that these numbers are not truly representative of the success or quality of this game. Case and point, I and all my friends are in that statistic... WE DON'T PLAY ANYMORE.... but time is not up yet, so we are part of that supposedly positive 1.7 million subscriber number. In conclusion...While statistics can be extremely valuable, they are also notorious for being a means that people use to make false and misleading arguments.

So... in other words... the number really means nothing... I joined the game December and spent all my money right up front..I have basically not played the game longer then a few minutes for a couple weeks now and yet they will still be adding me to the number of there subscribers, using me as evidence that there game is in fact not dying and is awesome? Unless I phone/email, demand a refund and go through a whole bunch of B.S. Like many statistics this means little or nothing.

See that's what I was wondering, I am not subscribed but I bought 60 days up front when I bought this game....Am I one of the numbers on that statistic? I have game time left... but I assure you I am not playing... What does a statistic like that even mean really? I know with 100% certainty that my server has dropped in population by a lot. and as far as them taking subs from wow... '“Of course people are trying Star Wars — our development team is trying Star Wars! I’m one of the few people who’s still playing it actually, but yeah we’ve seen a dip in subs.”' notice he says one of the few people who's still playing? How many people have left WoW for a new game only to go back later? SOOOO MANY PEOPLE!! I know I have. None of those games ended up being better or making me play it more then WoW did. They are not threatened by SWTOR in fact they care so little they admit that they will even play the competitions game for a little bit.

Although I never "Subscribed" per say, When I bought the game I also purchased 60 days up front.... The last few times I have heard numbers on there playerbase I wonder if they count me? I have not done much more then log on for a daily WZ in the last couple weeks. Server population on Shadowtown has absolutely dropped off... Non Biased people actually playing and enjoying the game will tell you the same thing in general chat. An easy to use tool for finding Flashpoint groups would have made this game infinitely more enjoyable for those of us who really don't see any value in sticking to the old ways of shouting in chat or being forced to maintain online friendships in order to experience content. Call me spoiled but I like to play and experience content at my own convenience... I know these things are on the way but... come on guys... that's just silly... it should already be in the game... The game is so derivative in so many ways... why not steal some of the good ideas.... anyways rant over.. all my gamer friends have tried and moved on from this game.

To quote Roger Ebert, 'you judge something by what it intends to do, not by it's "objective" accomplishment.' SWTOR intended to push the narrative envelope and fell flat on its face. (imo.. some people of course like things that I do not.) Have fun pretending that you are actually involved in some kind of large overarching narrative in a world filled with choices. Mass effect did a decent job of tricking people into thinking the choices mattered.... But now everyone saw how that turned out.... Bioware is a 1 trick pony.

OP is hilarious... goes to show what kind of demographic SWTOR has... (people who have never played another MMO in there life)

I am surprised this is news for some of you. I have easily had 10+ of these in my mail since I started playing. Sometimes they will try to get your attention by making the subject "Character Deleted" and they always give you 1 credit* for some reason.

Thx spellcheck... is that really the only error you could find? There has to be more... (oh look I spelled thanks... THX) I don't exactly understand your point. There are lots of games that I liked the story in better then D1 and D2 as well. That doesn't mean it wasn't good in my and many peoples opinion. Check out David Jaffe's little talk on what a "Player Authored story" is. Ok you are number 2 on my list. I am sure there are thousands of people who didn't like the story... just like there are thousands of people who don't like many things I like... that's not the point of anything I am saying. In fact some of the games you mention (ie baldurs gate, Final fantasy 7) I also mentioned. I never said Diablo 1 and 2 was the best story ever, out of every game I played. I said I liked it better then anything I experienced in this game... and my basic point is.. When I'm ****en 55 I am still going to remember all those things... and having played Swtor for going on 2-3 months... I Can't even remember the name of 1 quest giver or particular character that was awesome. Yes there are going to be differing opinions... this is the forum where you share them. The only reason It turned into that much talk about D1 and D2 is someone wanted to debate that game specifically. Of course there are better examples of RPG's that totally dominate SWTOR's story. You, I and several other people have mentioned MANY aside from Diablo 1 and 2. The person arguing against me decided to pick one of the weaker storylines out of the list I provided to debate. Although I still think the overall Lore/story Player authored story I experienced in the Diablo series is head and shoulders above anything in SWTOR. Once again that is just an opinion. Hey you spelled "anything" wrong! (doesn't that make me seem like ****? yup.. this is after all the internet and not a ****en essay writing competition)

Never claimed to be a critic. I just know what I like. Hmm a good critique about the story huh.. 1: A lot of the sidequests seem very derivative like I have done those exact quests in other games before... **** I am comparing it to other games again.. I need to smack myself over the head with something. It feels impossible to ever truly not compare things to other things..... lemme try again. 1a: Most of the Characters I encounter don't stick around very long, There is no time to see multiple facets to their personality. They simply come and go and none of it really matters. There are exceptions of course (class storyline) but, as far as all the planetary quests. It is a lot of the same ol same ol. 2: Repeated Dialogue at certain times made me roll my eyes. 3:One problem with the current system of how the story is handled. If I group in a flashpoint and lose the lightside/darkside roll I never get to see my side of the story. Unless I do it again, and maybe not even then if I'm unlucky and for example... Darkside on republic. Maybe just class storylines would be a happy medium. But IMO when I look at the bulk of the material, It just feels boring... Like I said I am not a critic and never pretended to be a critic... But I know what I like, generally I like things that are awesome.... Were there a few shining moments? Absolutely! But those were completely overshadowed by a lot of other bad quest lines and pointless dialogue trees, plus every other issue with the game itself. Have I played every single class story? Hell no... I have a 46 vanguard, 29 sage, 27 sentinel. That is the small fraction of this game I have seen. Should I make more alts? Experience more classes? Should I dig through this rough to find these Diamonds a few people have mentioned? Seems a little inconvenient since I put so much time into these characters already and have done some of those planetary quests 3 times now... At this point I can't be bothered. Hey how come you can call me a gosh darn fool and argue imaginary points that I never made, but me calling you a nutjob makes me look bad? no fair... and How come I see professional critics comparing things to each other all the damn time?

I know exactly what you are talking about... my analogy of that would be how I view some sports. Although I do not care for speed skating or soccer and what not. I can objectively appreciate the skill involved, and not scoff at anyone who enjoyed said sport. I cannot at all say the same about SWTOR. I assure you I am not a cold stuck up monster. Based on it's own merits it's really nothing special. That is my subjective opinion...

my entire story on Balmora included previous fallen jedi that I redeemed, each one adapting differently to their new lives as jedi, at the end my unit came back with zero casualties, where my friend's came back with heavy. I compared it to many games if you actually read the thread. If I judge it on it's own merits, the story is just as **** as if I compare it to something else. Although I am pretty sure if I could erase my memory with the thingy from Men In Black and actually judge it COMPLETELY on its own with no other game in the back of mind to compare then... perhaps yes.. SWTOR would be the greatest thing I had ever seen.... But knowing what I know... And seeing what I have seen. It's not great... I can go into this game expecting nothing but a WoW clone and Absolutely come out complaining about the story... I could complain about a lot else.. But this thread is about the storylines in particular. Despite the consensus SWTOR fan opinion, there was some well written and or interesting quest material in WoW and many other MMO's for that matter. If I find the story sub par in SWTOR that is my opinion. What do you even mean by nice Job? I didn't sit around going "ho hum this isn't as good as Legend of dragoon was when I was little" It was more like "Hmm.. that animation looked cheesey... Killing rakghouls really? Ok then.." space bar. "Hmm after all that story talk I hear, this really... Is not all that good... I wish they tried harder to make the game run smooth... or made more warzones or... anything..." How are you spazzing out? "If your complaint is that this game's narrative, ain't as good as the New York Times best seller you're reading, you're a gosh darn fool." Like I said, no one compared it to literature or a New York Times best seller, or even said the word "New York Times" Then your respond to me by saying "New York Times thing... really?" What in the actual **** are you talking about. Calling my opinions weak, even though they are just as valid as anyone's. And shared by many. Also you are arguing against things no one even said you nut job. I never said "Because A was better then B... B SUCKS!." I basically said "A doesn't seem to be everything it's cracked up to be, What games did I find better you ask? oh well how about, B,C,D,E,F"

Nah I am complaining that the stories narrative isn't as good as well... almost any RPG I have ever played. I do like story. Who cares? I dunno, not you? I had 0 expectations going into this game other then a Star Wars themed WoW Clone. But stories comparable to those I have experienced elsewhere in GAMES would be just wonderful. ESPECIALLY.. If that is the MAIN point about your game. No one said **** about the New York Times. One good point many people have made though is that whether or not a story is good, is just a subjective opinion. Basically you don't seem to think much of the story either, but that's ok with you. It is just better then any other MMO you have played. Although once again that is just a subjective opinion... You are spazzing out for no reason. Crazypants. Edit: The smokescreen is having an NPC speak out loud, with very unrealistic animations. Throw in some canned responses (Good,Bad, Useless middle one?) but in the end. Giving me the EXACT same kind of quests one would expect in any MMO.