Discussion about this so-called "huge loss of subs"

[Spell_Bound]

This is coming from a long time player of MMO's, both "popular" and "unpopular" (SWG, LOTRO, DAoC, WoW, Age of Conan, Warhammer online): I have seen multiple games succeed, and multiple games not so much.

 

Take Age of Conan for example. I saw the game go from about 30 US servers, down to 4 over the time of 4 months. However, these 4 servers were populated, and the game was moderately successful, in its own respect.

 

What is the big stress of all these subs dropping? It's not like we're going to wake up to the servers not being here anymore. All they would have to do at this point is condense half of the servers down, and they would all be populated abundantly.

 

This game has the potential to be a very successful game, and I don't know WHAT people are thinking, wanting plenty of endgame raiding content, pvp options, etc only a few months after release. You demand the game be rushed into release, and expect it to have as many raids as an MMO which has been out for a year?

 

Open discussion for why you will not be resubbing/why you will/when you will lose hope. If unsubbing, describe why, if and when you plan to check back for new content, and things you would like to see changed.

 

I personally will give this game plenty of time to grow, as it had one of the most impressive launches I have seen in a while from an MMO (keep in mind, WoW's servers were nearly impossible to play on for almost two weeks after release).

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

All they would have to do at this point is condense half of the servers down, and they would all be populated abundantly.

To me, that's the thin line between this continuing it's launch success and it fading away. Sooner this happens, the better for everyone.

[Mormack]

What people are seeing happens in every MMO.

 

1) Content Drops

2) People consume Content

3) People stop Logging till new content comes out

4) Rinse and Repeat

 

Seriously, on my server at least I'm not seeing any sub loss at least on Imp side. I see 200+ on the fleet every night and a very full Ilum. I think the sub loss issue is exaggerated...and no I'm not a biodrone...see Signature. I have issues just like everyone else is but I'm not going to pretend like my issues are the most important and should be fixed pronto.

 

EDIT: Besides, they are fixing the biggest issue I have right now and that's the stupid Pylons in Eternity Vault.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Mormack

[Gohlar]

After launch, servers are full of people.

 

Now, servers are mostly empty (in the US, EU is more popular I guess)

 

Figure it out...

Edited February 29, 2012 by Gohlar

[Jimmymook]

Just cancelled my sub....just cant fool myself that this is a good game anymore. 2 months in and i'm bored already.

[sly_swg]

my main reason for stopping in a few months will be that I'm done doing the levelling stories, and the complexity of the game mechanics is is non-existant... there's 1 way to play a class..end of story = bloody boringn, one of the most imporant things that kept me around in swg was the freedom + complex mechanics..... egfiguring out how to make a BountyHunter work in that game useing his LLC was hard but gratifying, and thus kept me around... when everything is cookiecutter I get bored really really fast...

[smexymage]

To me, that's the thin line between this continuing it's launch success and it fading away. Sooner this happens, the better for everyone.

 

^^ This right here

[Kheldras]

What people are seeing happens in every MMO.

 

1) Content Drops

2) People consume Content

3) People stop Logging till new content comes out

4) Rinse and Repeat

t.

 

Actually, this is typical with MMOs whose only motivation in endgame is getting new shiny Epics. Once People have it, there is no reason to log anymore.

 

Add even a bit more creativity (like housing, RP tools, quest editors, GM Evenrt Support), and people stay inbetween.

[Stormwindsong]

Like you, i've played on many MMO's. I started EQ before there were any expansions, same with wow, Shadowbane, SWG you name it.

 

I've seen a lot do well and a lot that don't. As far as TOR goes, I love it. It's very well done for being in it's infancy.

 

One thing i would like to see is some changes to how the storyline goes for each class. For the most part you have one class quest and tons of side quests that are the same across all classes. I've seen some MMO's that have a sort of random quest generator build into them so that as you level up different toons, each time you go to a planet, the quests are different. Not so much the main class quest but the side quests. Would be nice to see some new quests on alts.

 

Other than that, so far i'm very impressed with this game. For one that has just released, it's incredibly well done, extremely stable and has a LOT of content for a new game. Come on people, you are dealing with a game that crosses galaxies. That's something most games don't have. They can add entire systems of planets in expansions or patches and never stop expanding, as well as adding new races or even classes.

 

One other thing i'm wondering, has anyone heard if there will be a release of TOR for mac users? I have several mac friends that really want to play but cannot.

 

Stormwindsong.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

I have characters on two different servers. I didnt' see much of a drop after Jan 20th, but I've definitely noticed more of one after Feb 20th. I suspect it will only get worse as more people hit 50.

 

What is the big stress of all these subs dropping? It's not like we're going to wake up to the servers not being here anymore. All they would have to do at this point is condense half of the servers down, and they would all be populated abundantly.

 

This position is somewhat contradictory to your premise that pops haven't really dropped all that much. At launch, all the servers were packed...well, not really, but according to the server status they were. Now you suggest cutting the number of servers in half, which I agree with because even when the servers were "full" they felt empty to me, but says you really do believe the subs have dropped drastically.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ChicksDigHarleys

[Spell_Bound]

I have issues just like everyone else is but I'm not going to pretend like my issues are the most important and should be fixed pronto.

 

Of course, everyone has issues. But from what I see, people have this "end of the world mentality" that when the impatient players quit, the game is going to end.

 

As soon as some more raid content/PvP systems are introduced, I agree; we will see an influx in the amount of players who return.

 

I simply grow tired of the flame/panic that all these subs are dropping. The game is completely healthy, and in my opinion, we're trimming the fat with every impatient sub that drops.

[BCBull]

I'm don't think I'll be here after 3-6 months because of the way BioWare develops and communicates. I'll give couple examples that come to mind which are fundamental design flaws.

 

1. The complete separation of faction in the game world.

2. The unability to play with more than 16 people without significant performance loss.

3. Cutting of corners in stead of making better. (no swimming, 1.1.5. taking any reason away to go to Ilum, Imp fleet being exactly the same as Pub fleet, sith corruption turning my black toon white. etc)

4. The absolute worst customer service I have been forced to deal with ever (yes I said ever).

5. Devaluing of accomplishment ( 2 months later valor gains have been doubled and effort needed to do so removed.)

 

This is the first time I made a list of things and I am realizing I could go on for another 10 points..

Edited February 29, 2012 by BCBull

[Spell_Bound]

It's very well done for being in it's infancy.

 

I agree. For a game whose existence has not even reached the double digits to have a somewhat successful PvP system with -some- endgame content is impressive for me.

 

I'm not a bioware fanboy myself, I'm just saying I'm impressed with this game's launch compared to many other MMO's, and don't see the need for everyone to /ragequit because their issues aren't being put first in line.

[PersivaI]

I was wondering, how does everybody know that "servers are empty"?

 

I can see and "calculate" my server's population, it seems like everybody knows that all servers are empty or full but I think reality is somewhere between.

 

Anyway, from my sight of view, I will play until I don't enjoy anymore. I capped 50 with 2 characters and now I am playing 3rd. This game is fine for me as long as I expect more content to come. Unfortunately I haven't been able to play many FP's because they least long.

This game is not the best but for sure it's not the worse. It's a good one and if they focus and fix things it will become even better.

 

After all, it's too simple. You like it? You keep paying and playing. You don't like it? Unsub and stop. I don't understand all the QQ'ing around the forums about a game...

[Vagessel]

This fear Astroturfing campaigms are things you will see in these general forums and forums or certain websites that are simply beyond redemption in term of AstroTurf infection.

 

The moment you log into the actual game or visit reputable websites you won't see any truth to the smear campaign. Just block this page (general) and carry on with life as usual. Doing otherwise is like subjecting yourself to nonstop TV ads during election season.

[Spell_Bound]

This position is somewhat contradictory to your premise that pops haven't really dropped all that much.

 

I never said I did not believe the subs dropped drastically, and if that was implied, I did not mean for it to be.

 

Yes, subs will drop. I understand that.

 

I don't think the "panic" over such an event is necessary, was all I meant to imply.

[Quraswren]

I haven't seen anything about a loss of subs.

 

What tabloid are you reading?

[Gomuningen]

Be patient all you want, but when EA and the shareholders keep seeing numbers drop...its good bye funding to BW for TOR. Then all the waiting in the world will not give you the new content fixes needed really bad for this game. It will be Warhammer 2.0, they should bring back that fat chick that was heading WAR for awhile. That will ensure the demise of this game for sure.

[Arkerus]

I'm don't think I'll be here after 3-6 months because of the way BioWare develops and communicates. I'll give couple examples that come to mind which are fundamental design flaws.

 

1. The complete separation of faction in the game world.

2. The unability to play with more than 16 people without significant performance loss.

3. Cutting of corners in stead of making better. (no swimming, 1.1.5. taking any reason away to go to Ilum, Imp fleet being exactly the same as Pub fleet, sith corruption turning my black toon white. etc)

4. The absolute worst customer service I have been forced to deal with ever (yes I said ever).

5. Devaluing of accomplishment ( 2 months later valor gains have been doubled and effort needed to do so removed.)

 

This is the first time I made a list of things and I am realizing I could go on for another 10 points..

 

1. Each faction has their own base(s) on each planet. They are seperated for logical reasons. There is no reason you can't get other people and attack at base. On Voss I see this happen a lot.

 

2. Depends on the person. I can handle up to about 25 before performance loss.

 

3. Swimming? WHO CARES. Its hardly important. Why do we need swimming? There is literally no point. The fleets are the same. Big deal. Its a hub for game purposes. You are complaining about them using the same model? Very nitpicky. Very pointless complaint. Another complaint? All you're talking about is stuff you wanted to see, its not about true game deficiencies. Its all YOUR idea of the game.

 

4. There is some bad customer service. Ok. I get this one.

 

5. Another complaint that is pointless. Streamlining the process and encouraging people to PvP is very important. PvP is fun regardless of the "rewards". PvP is supposed to be something that people compete in and everyone needs to be on approximately the same footing. The elitist model is GONE. Get. Over. It.

 

 

If someone wants to PROVE there is a sub loss, please by all means send me the proof.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Arkerus

[Spell_Bound]

This fear Astroturfing campaigms are things you will see in these general forums and forums or certain websites that are simply beyond redemption in term of AstroTurf infection.

 

The moment you log into the actual game or visit reputable websites you won't see any truth to the smear campaign. Just block this page (general) and carry on with life as usual. Doing otherwise is like subjecting yourself to nonstop TV ads during election season.

 

I never meant for this to be a smear campaign thread or a come here to bash the game thread, I was simply hoping for a discussion of pros/cons and reasons people will be quitting, for my own knowledge.

[Grizm]

I think the sub loss issue is exaggerated...

 

Everything on the forums is exaggerated.

 

The fact that these supposedly dissatisfied customers are still here, still posting is the most telling of all. A bit of reading between the lines.

[RaGH_]

One other thing i'm wondering, has anyone heard if there will be a release of TOR for mac users? I have several mac friends that really want to play but cannot.

 

Stormwindsong.

 

I am a Mac user, and game on my 15" mbp, and i'd highly recommend bootcamp. For the cost of windows, I'm actually enjoying having all my games on one partition, and all my day to day stuff on the other. It works really well, and I haven't suffered any of the FPS or engine troubles everyone is complaining about, and I have everything on medium. Only thing i've bumped into is on the voidstar WZ if it's 8v8 and everyone is in front of one door spamming AOE powers. Then it slows down, but it's still very playable. Also recommend windows and bootcamp because it opens to the door to many other great games.

 

Sticking on topic to the sub losses, I'd honestly say it's dying because there isn't anything new or fresh. My experiences of MMOs has been SWG and WoW, I played galaxies for years, and WoW for maybe 2 months. I fear SWTOR will be a few months too, as once I hit 50, there is nothing else to do, which everyone else is already doing. What I mean by that, was in SWG at least I could go off and help my Guild civil plan a whole city, or head to Tatooine for some chaotic world PvP, or even drop every skill I had, keep the same character and become an image designer.

 

Modern MMOs which are theme park MMOs just don't have enough depth, or at least enough variety in Characters. There should be less focus on balancing classes 1v1 and mirroring them, and making it so that people can actually play the Characters they wanted to roll. A bounty hunter that actually has player bounties for example, an Imperial Agent with random Dailies to destroy or assassinate POIs, Smugglers having to actually smuggle, etc etc etc.

 

I think people are leaving mostly due to boredom and repetitiveness, as so far yes I've experienced bugs here and there, but I'm now bored as hell at 43, as I know once I hit 50 I have to grind out PVP or PVE and there is absolutely nothing else to do.

[Mormack]

I'm don't think I'll be here after 3-6 months because of the way BioWare develops and communicates. I'll give couple examples that come to mind which are fundamental design flaws.

 

1. The complete separation of faction in the game world.

2. The unability to play with more than 16 people without significant performance loss.

3. Cutting of corners in stead of making better. (no swimming, 1.1.5. taking any reason away to go to Ilum, Imp fleet being exactly the same as Pub fleet, sith corruption turning my black toon white. etc)

4. The absolute worst customer service I have been forced to deal with ever (yes I said ever).

5. Devaluing of accomplishment ( 2 months later valor gains have been doubled and effort needed to do so removed.)

 

This is the first time I made a list of things and I am realizing I could go on for another 10 points..

 

1) I can agree with this one but its not a deal breaker to me.

2) I don't have this issue and I'm not running on anything high end

3) I really can't imagine people complaining about no swimming....its such a small thing, the ilum thing is probably a band aid till they can test and come up with something better, Space Stations are very similar in this Galaxy...Most likely built by the same independent company, I fail to see how the sith corruption thing is cutting a corner, etc.)

4) I dunno...Its up there with WoW Vanilla to me.

5) Like every other MMO. See 10% Dragon Soul buff and easier gain of Conquest gear in WoW.

 

You have to realize that some things (the ilum thing in particular) are just placeholder things until they can work something more long term out. They aren't going to give up on Ilum that easy but hell, it took humans 7 years to fix a bridge in Redridge in WoW. There were quests that were broken for YEARS and mechanics that are STILL broken (Vanish I'm looking at you.). Bioware is actually doing a pretty good job at pumping out fixes.

 

 

And honestly, look at the Ilum thing one more time...Anyone remember when Blizzard was trying to fix Tol Barad and ended up just making people trade wins? Bioware is trying to make a way for Ilum to work but they don't wanna make it impossible for some people to do the dailies until they do figure it out so they make this bandaid fix.

[Holden_Dissent]

I haven't seen any sort of drop in subs. Which is odd because I figured the free month would expire and there'd be a drop. Not even 10% as far as I can tell.

 

But even if everyone quit I'd still be playing. Because I think for myself. If I'm having fun then I'm playing. If I'm not, then I don't.

 

I don't care about what any of YOU say or do. It will have no effect on ME.

[Fulmar]

Originally Posted by Mormack

What people are seeing happens in every MMO.

 

1) Content Drops

2) People consume Content

3) People stop Logging till new content comes out

4) Rinse and Repeat

t.

yup this is the main problem here.. the issue is we should not be burned through all of the content a few months into the release.. thats the industrys fault, or ours for demanding we level that fast