caultonpos Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Since you can get your bags in warzones is this the end of open world pvp? I've seen no indication of any content being created for it. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidenPryde Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Since you can get your bags in warzones is this the end of open world pvp? I've seen no indication of any content being created for it. Shame. Yes. 10 chars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) the end was already there before the start. a "server" that can support only a fraction of the number of players a wow realm could support, but still have often bigger maps (planets) with a quest design that both faction rarely meet? the 200 players of each faction are distributed over a lot of space in a lot of maps. how could anybody think this would be enough to have a realistic chance to see the two factions getting so close and clsutering to see OPEN WORLD PVP? failed by technical and hardware design! edit: they must increase the supported population size of a server by at least a factor of 3 to have a chance for open world pvp. but this won't happen: the engine sucks, and the servers seem to fail too. and we won't see an engine change of that size. Edited February 29, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It really seems to me as if Bioware is just randomly shooting in the dark when it comes to PvP, they really have no underlying plan as to what they want this game to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) It really seems to me as if Bioware is just randomly shooting in the dark when it comes to PvP, they really have no underlying plan as to what they want this game to be. no, they are not shooting in the dark. they know very well that due to their techincal failed hardware and software design there is no way to fix this. they are only trying to hide this. with this engine it will never ever be possible to see openworld pvp. you need more palyers on the server, far more. because you will never be able to motiviate 15% of the players to meet at the same time in the same place to do pvp, all having the same level! Edited February 29, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 no, they are not shooting in the dark. they know very well that due to their techincal failed hardware and software design there is no way to fix this. they are only trying to hide this. with this engine it will never ever be possible to see openworld pvp. you need more palyers on the server, far more. because you will never be able to motiviate 25% of the players to meet at the same time in the same place to do pvp, all having the same level! I agree with you about technical issues, which is why they are dissuading people from open world pvp. What I'm talking about is there clear lack of planning with rewards and progression. They bounce all over the place, sometimes favoring one approach and sometimes another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martingale Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 You can build credit towards getting bags, but that doesn't mean its going to be the same ratio of effort/bag... Just like getting epics through accumulating badges by doing daily heroics was in wow. It takes a painfully long time to save up for something, and its must easier to get gear just by raiding. But for the casual player, or for someone who doesn't have the time/desire to raid, that was still an option, just much much slower. Last time I looked the patch notes didn't say anything about how much WZning would be required to get each daily out of the way. It very well might end being an absurd ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) It really seems to me as if Bioware is just randomly shooting in the dark when it comes to PvP, they really have no underlying plan as to what they want this game to be. I get the same feeling. Remember that Bioware has never released a MULTIPLAYER game prior to this one, much less a MMO. I know the Dev team has some veteran MMO developers on it but Bioware's senior managers have absolutely no experience as an institution with multiplayer. Here's what Bioware should do: Bring in the guys experienced with the realm vs realm system in DAOC over to this team and get to work putting PVP systems like THAT into the Republic vs Empire war. Edited February 29, 2012 by Wildcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirium Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Here's what Bioware should do: Bring in the guys experienced with the realm vs realm system in DAOC over to this team and get to work putting PVP systems like THAT into the Republic vs Empire war. The majority of of the DAoC team is over at ZeniMax now working on what is effectively going to be DAoC 2, though ZeniMax hasn't come out with it and I suspect it will be a new IP since I am dubious ZeniMax wants to pay the money to buy the rights to DAoC from EA. Those that aren't there are scattered across projects -- Mark is now working on cell-phone games, he's the only one I know of. Even most of the WAR staff has been redistributed to a variety of smaller studios, Gershowitz I think being the only one working on something "major" (Rift). We have Jeff Hickman, from WAR, working in Customer Support I believe, and then Gabe A., who was the city designer for WAR, couldn't even finish the project he was in charge of (I really enjoy Karak Eight Peaks...oh wait), and BioWare decided that was the go to guy for PvP. He's actually probably just the only guy at Mythic EA didn't fire when Mark got fired, with the exception of course of the guys that left Mythic when EA bought them in the first place. But yes, BioWare needs to find a way to make PvP more robust, and if they don't show strong direction by patch 1.3 I am going to have to serious re-evaluate my subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 80 on 20 is not pvp there was no open world pvp this is the end of the empire getting 4 times as much valor per day for zerging around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beehaappy Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) I agree. I don't think Bioware thought about Ilum. When looking at it and trying to figure it out there isn't much logic. Why is there an imp and repub base? Why is the whole end game litteraly driving in circles looking for armanants? I play MMO's for open world pvp. That is why I get gear so I can test my skill against other living players, not npc's. I started playing this game cause I love Star Wars. I still think this game is awesome but now that I'm 50 and valor 60 I have nothing more to do. I think Bioware needs to make Ilum like Warhammer or how GW2 is proposing to be. There needs to be PvE objectives that give PvP rewards. I'd take objective swaping over everyone quiting cause they are bored. Also think about your servor population, not everyone plays at night. People do Ilum in the afternoon and if its 15v8 the 8 people show up once and leave. If there were other objectives they would be motivated to stay together trying to get more people WHILE getting pvp rewards. Ilum is a mess! I know it's probably really hard to make a game and I think this game is awesome. I just really want some decent open world pvp in a Star Wars game. I wish you the best Bioware, I will subscribe for a couple more months to see what happens but this is just my 2 cents hope it all turns out great . Edited February 29, 2012 by Beehaappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 well, i do not see any future for pvp. i am still subscribed because i enjoy leveling some alts (yes it makes me fun to see how some of the other classes work and evolve). but this won't last much. maybe, only maybe some kind of 2on2 / 3on3 arena could hold me. i actually very like that but i doubt we will see this soon and i doubt it will be done good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think this next patch is an acknowledgement by Bioware that Ilum is currently not working the way they would like on far too many of the servers. While I do not think it is the end for open world PvP, I think it will represent a break from it until they can come up with a new open world system that is more fun and dynamic for all servers regardless of population balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soris_Mar Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think this next patch is an acknowledgement by Bioware that Ilum is currently not working the way they would like on far too many of the servers. While I do not think it is the end for open world PvP, I think it will represent a break from it until they can come up with a new open world system that is more fun and dynamic for all servers regardless of population balance. I couldn't agree more. With 1.1.5 taking out the need to grind on Ilum there is really no reason to go there. I'm not opposed to it. I'm a big advocate of world PVP, however, standing in a group of 20 on 20 while the game client starts to choke isn't it. I've had more fun on Tatooine trying to instigate guild on guild wars. The few times its succeeded have been some of the most memorable PVP experiences I've had in TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrcheezle Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Since you can get your bags in warzones is this the end of open world pvp? I've seen no indication of any content being created for it. Shame. What open world pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Open world PVP died when they made planets in different level ranges for the two factions, quest hubs unreachable via exhaustion zones, planets on different phases, instanced everything in the game. Ilum and pvp areas like Ilum are not world PVP. They are uninstanced warzones and should not be confused for world PVP. World PVP in this game has been non-existent since day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almghty_gir Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 well, i did put some ideas up here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=326775 would love some feedback on them from as many people as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrcheezle Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think this next patch is an acknowledgement by Bioware that Ilum is currently not working the way they would like on far too many of the servers. While I do not think it is the end for open world PvP, I think it will represent a break from it until they can come up with a new open world system that is more fun and dynamic for all servers regardless of population balance. ^ agreed. they made 60 NA servers too many for the ppl that couldn't deal with q times for the 1st week. now they have 100 dead NA servers and 20 servers that aren't completely barren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aharx Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Why does it have to be the end because you cannot get bags as quickly in open world PVP? Why do you even need gear rewards in open world PVP at all? I would be perfectly content if they just made it so that I could get Valor anywhere in open world PVP... not just one portion of Ilum. I have been trying to make Outlaw's Den more exciting on my server by hanging out there more often. Over the past 3-4 days I have seen maybe 2 on-level Rebels and a handful of Planet Level Rebels each time I have been out there. It's been pretty fun fighting somewhere besides Ilum. Just the other day I led this one Jedi on a wild goose chase all over the Dune Seas. I would stop periodically to fight. I think I was up to about 5-0 by the time we made it to the Outlaw's Den when I was finally bested. It would have been nice to earn some Valor for all of this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think this next patch is an acknowledgement by Bioware that Ilum is currently not working the way they would like on far too many of the servers. While I do not think it is the end for open world PvP, I think it will represent a break from it until they can come up with a new open world system that is more fun and dynamic for all servers regardless of population balance. I agree with this. BW has silently acknowledged OWPVP fail by creating new rewards for WZs and funneling pvpers into them. I prefer instanced pvp so I'll like the change, up until the OWPVPers get disgruntled enough to quit leaving us with longer queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleshsaber Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Open world pvp ended the moment they allowed one side to zerg. Ilum is a non-starter on my server due to the fact that at all times during the day, imps can zerg the center with at least double the pubs numbers. regardless of whether you believe this is inherent in all open world pvp, the fact is, all forms of open world pvp are doomed to failure if there is no incentive for the underdog to venture out into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 So is this the end of open world pvp in SWTOR You have to have a start before you can have an end. SWTOR never had open world PvP in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsem Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I came across 1,one singel republic on my way to 50 on atho city (pvp) and i have asked myself, what the heck had gone through dev's mind when they made this game. It's a shame if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) I came across 1,one singel republic on my way to 50 on atho city (pvp) and i have asked myself, what the heck had gone through dev's mind when they made this game. It's a shame if you ask me. i barely saw players of my own faction during leveling and the server status says heavy crowded Oo but no wonder: the amount of players the technically consider heavy crowded is absurdly low. as i said before: they need to at least triple the number of players on each server. edit: on my server you are even searching for 1-3h to get 4people together for a fp, no matter if you are <50 or looking for heroic fps. last night... "LFM 2 DDs for heroic". i saw this spammed for an hour. then they gave up seeking 2 dds. Edited February 29, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finreal Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 This latest move all but proves my theory. BioWare know that their PvP planet is not entertaining and in many casses, it's frustrating to the point of rage quiting the whole game. During the first few patches we can observe BioWare's attempts to make the most of it, with instancing and tweeking the cannons. Then GW2 released their press beta. This got alot of people realy excited about the game and it's ORvR features. BioWare realised that to compete with GW2 and retain some of the 1 million people that have signed up for beta alone, they would have to do something simmilar in scope and complexity. BioWare would have then done some planning and came up with a ball park figure to take to EA. EA, having just lost $3 on their shareprice and still wheezing from having to cough up $300,000,000 for SWTOR in the first place, most likely balked at the idea of another significant investment in cash and man power. BioWare as a result are now moving to push people away from their failed attempt at ORvR and will concentrate on their strengths, PvE and Scenarios. If they can raise enough money after paying off the investers they may attempt to take on GW2 in terms of RvR. This won't happen any time soon though and I think the most prudent move for serious PvPers is to take some time out and see how GW2 performs in the beta's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts