The thought that WoW has more endgame content

[Snibb]

And WoW with 4 years of development launched with just Molten Core and Onyxia, the latter being a single boss encounter, raids added in with patch 1.1 right around when the game came out.

 

And after that Nov'04 launch? Next raid, Blackwing's Lair came in a patch in Jul'05 ... that's right, roughly 8 months after launch.

Blackwing's Lair, Ahn'Qiraj and Naxxramas were the only 40 person raids (WoW's default size at the time) added in the first 1.5 years of launch.

 

There were other 5 mans scattered in, like Dire Maul and a 20 person lesser-raid, Zul'Gurub.

 

But please, let's not try to sugarcoat WoW's endgame content availability during "vanilla".

 

There was also no way to max level in 2 weeks.

If you have a game that is this easy to level in, you need one of two things.

1. A great system for leveling alts.

2. A ton of max level content to keep your player base entertained.

 

We'll see what the legacy system brings, but from what I see this game is not designed for leveling alts as the only new stuff you'll see is class quest on the way up, and the ratio of class versus side quests tips heavily in the side quests favor.

 

I also do not like WoW, but for Pete's sake, learn from their mistakes and from their success!

[Icebaron]

Actually your both right and both wrong, only certain zones in WoW have day/night cycles and they are barely noticeable either way.

 

No, one is right the other is wrong. WoW does have day/night cycles. The sun moves in the sky. You can watch is rise and watch it set. How are they both right and wrong?

 

One says "There are no day/night cycles in WoW"

the other says "There are day/night cycles in WoW"

 

 

There is no gray area here.

[BlackZoback]

There is far too little content in this game. I seriously can't wait for a serious MMO like GW2 to come out.

 

Me neither, I seriously can't wait for the "GW2 is the second coming" crowd to leave.

[Muskaan]

Me neither, I seriously can't wait for the "GW2 is the second coming" crowd to leave.

 

Any AAA MMO that's yet to release is always dubbed as the "second coming" of the genre.

[BlackZoback]

No, one is right the other is wrong. WoW does have day/night cycles. The sun moves in the sky. You can watch is rise and watch it set. How are they both right and wrong?

 

One says "There are no day/night cycles in WoW"

the other says "There are day/night cycles in WoW"

 

 

There is no gray area here.

 

If something is not present in all the zones and is so insignificant you can miss it, it might as well not exist.

 

For some people it didn't, hell I played for 6 years and I had to look it up to see if it was there or not.

[BlackZoback]

Any AAA MMO that's yet to release is always dubbed as the "second coming" of the genre.

 

Ive been around the MMO block a few times and I have yet to see the hype that GW2 is supposed to live up to from any other title.

 

ToR was close but GW2 takes the cake.

Edited March 1, 2012 by BlackZoback

[OldBenSmokin]

Actually your both right and both wrong, only certain zones in WoW have day/night cycles and they are barely noticeable either way.

 

I'm all right. The fact that I can't see the sun in a place like Nagrand(?) doesn't negate the fact the game has day/night.

 

Barely noticable? Are you trying to lie to me or yourself? Go stand in Booty Bay at 8 PM server time and tell me that with a straight face.

Edited March 1, 2012 by OldBenSmokin

[Icebaron]

If something is not present in all the zones and is so insignificant you can miss it, it might as well not exist.

 

For some people it didn't, hell I played for 6 years and I had to look it up to see if it was there or not.

 

The entire color palette changed on the ground without ever looking up. Your lack of attention to detail does not qualify as it not existing. Lets deal with the facts shall we.

 

Does WoW have day/night cycles. It's a yes or no question.

[PiffyEQ]

Because leveling up is boring as ****? You can dress it all up with story and voice and hype it up, but it still sucks, and end game is where the fun was supposed to be (in TOR it's not sadly). Adding more annoying voice that you can't skip altogether and making leveling up take longer isn't the answer. Challenging and Rewarding content is. WoW's raids have minimalistic ingame story behind them, it tells you who what when and where, and then you go in and kill ****, and it's challenging, rewarding and FUN. TOR it's just grab 6-7 of your buddies and go herp derp through it spamming the space bar all the way.

 

For me the grinding to level was always the least favorite part for me in other MMO's,( except for the grouping and discovering dungeons; but the new discoveries always wore off when you had to camp the same places forever).

I don't think I ever did 1 quest in EQ besides the epic quest and in other games I never read the quest dialogue; however, in SWTOR I am really enjoying the whole leveling process. I find the VO's add so much depth to the game and make the quests actually interesting.

As for the voices being annoying, I do think they should have added some sort of voice modulator to at least be able to manipulate what your voice sounds like, or they could have done it on their end to provide a bit more variety.

I haven't reached end game yet since I have been playing various characters and enjoying the storylines, however I think nowadays they make it too easy to reach end-game that people can get there so fast. I guess I'm old school ;P in EQ it took a while to get to end game when it came out, which gave them a lot more time to tweak things with patches. I do miss the 40 people raids though! It took a lot of communication and strategy to figure out boss fights. I guess i'm a masochist hehe

Edited March 1, 2012 by PiffyEQ

[Lethality]

I'd still like to point out that WoW does NOT have day/night cycles. I don't know why people are saying that it does.

 

Because it does.

 

Night time in Elwynn: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/Walk.jpg

 

Daytime in Elwynn: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFMpYDvE5AI/AAAAAAAAAyU/bolh7TJP9x8/s1600/Elwynn+Stormwin.jpg

 

Booty Bay at Night: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/gallery_image/WoWScrnShot_061907_223854.jpg

 

Booty Bay during the day: http://kauler.com/games/wow/008%20-%20Booty%20Bay.jpg

 

Booty Bay in Lego just for fun: http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2008/11/legolsp2.jpg

[Starglide]

To de-bunk and explain some thoughts

 

Thought #1 WoW has more raid content

 

False - Ever since BC WoW has implemented 2 instances in the first raid tier of an expansion. We are seeing, so far, the same model in TOR. Cataclysm was the exception to this in WoW but the raids easily were considered one raid as clearing both BOT/BWL in one night was common place.

 

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

 

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.

 

Thought #3 There is nothing to do in TOR at endgame vs. WoW

 

And what is there to do in WoW? Farm dailies, grind dungeons, raid, farm achievements. Looks pretty similar to the TOR endgame to me. No, TOR doesn't have as many dailies but we're really splitting hairs here. There are no achievements in TOR as of yet but if you are farming achievements you must be pretty bored with a game to do so. MMO's have a grind to get gear at endgame and TOR hasn't changed anything up.

 

Thought #4 TOR is more aimed at casuals than WoW

 

Really? LFR is all that needs to be said on that. There is nothing wrong with being a casual, some people realize life is more important than a video game but you can't say WoW isn't aimed at a casual market. In this day and age all MMO's are going to be catering to a casual audience, that is how the market has changed and this is how developer's are going to adapt to stay afloat int he marketplace.

 

I was not a shot at saying TOR is better than WoW, everyone has their own opinion. These are just some facts that I wanted to throw out there that really in some circumstance these games are pretty even leveled.

 

I love when people say this. What was your hard mode experience in WoW? And don't lie. I ran hard modes and was in a top 100 guild. No, the content was not that difficult, but because of a combat log and other various quality of life implementations, content had the ability to be more eventful and require WAY MORE mechanics. Also, being in a top guild, it would take us days on new attempt. Even though the content was easier than Wrath, it still required days of attempts on new bosses--especially the end bosses.

 

In TOR, if you can get 8 people together, you can do Normal modes. The competition among guilds is almost non-existent as defeating hard modes or Nightmare modes in TOR is not a real accomplishment. My guild currently pugs two players and does Nightmare modes across two days with a full clear. This is all within two months of launch.

 

Only top world guilds clear WoW content as fast. And before you go start calling me a hater, go look at my other posts. I defend TOR and I even defend it on this aspect given as I think the game will improve and is headed in the right direction. But facts are facts and reading people talk about something they know nothing about is getting exceedingly frustrating.

 

When I first started MMOs, I took everything someone said and ran with it. Listened and grew. Why is it that every single person, new or old, that plays thinks they know EVERYTHING?

[Derekloffin]

Because it does.

 

Night time in Elwynn: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/Walk.jpg

 

Daytime in Elwynn: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFMpYDvE5AI/AAAAAAAAAyU/bolh7TJP9x8/s1600/Elwynn+Stormwin.jpg

 

Booty Bay at Night: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/gallery_image/WoWScrnShot_061907_223854.jpg

 

Booty Bay during the day: http://kauler.com/games/wow/008%20-%20Booty%20Bay.jpg

 

Booty Bay in Lego just for fun: http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2008/11/legolsp2.jpg

 

Yeah, WoW definitely has day/night cosmetic cycles, but they are just that, purely cosmetic. Some other MMOs actually have some real impact to the cycles of day and night. If SWTOR were to add day and night, I would hope they would be more than just cosmetic.

[Icebaron]

Yeah, WoW definitely has day/night cosmetic cycles, but they are just that, purely cosmetic. Some other MMOs actually have some real impact to the cycles of day and night. If SWTOR were to add day and night, I would hope they would be more than just cosmetic.

 

Cosmetic would still be an improvement.

[Muskaan]

Cosmetic would still be an improvement.

 

Since SWTOR is a VO-cinematic based game, even cosmetic day/night cycles would have a massive impact on their cinematic rendering of cutscenes. And I don't think that they are prepared to spend cash and time on fixing their cinematics to support day/night cycles.

 

Way too many higher priority issues to deal with right now.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Muskaan

[Azzras]

Because it does.

 

Night time in Elwynn: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/Walk.jpg

 

Daytime in Elwynn: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFMpYDvE5AI/AAAAAAAAAyU/bolh7TJP9x8/s1600/Elwynn+Stormwin.jpg

 

Booty Bay at Night: http://www.argentarchives.org/files/gallery_image/WoWScrnShot_061907_223854.jpg

 

Booty Bay during the day: http://kauler.com/games/wow/008%20-%20Booty%20Bay.jpg

 

Booty Bay in Lego just for fun: http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2008/11/legolsp2.jpg

 

Thanks for the links. I stand corrected. Never noticed.

 

[Lethality]

Yeah, WoW definitely has day/night cosmetic cycles, but they are just that, purely cosmetic. Some other MMOs actually have some real impact to the cycles of day and night. If SWTOR were to add day and night, I would hope they would be more than just cosmetic.

 

That's not entirely true... at least before Cataclysm, visiting Greyman Wall at night and the Worgen NPCs were in wolf form. During the day, human form.

 

So they have the tech and it would indeed be cool to see it used more!

[FalconDroid]

We have been doing raid content. We can clear KP and EV in two nights on normal. Still haven't done hard yet. We still feel challenged. Carry on.

[Snibb]

Since SWTOR is a VO-cinematic based game, even cosmetic day/night cycles would have a massive impact on their cinematic rendering of cutscenes. And I don't think that they are prepared to spend cash and time on fixing their cinematics to support day/night cycles.

 

Way too many higher priority issues to deal with right now.

 

Ever notice other players moving through your field of view in cutscenes? This means that they're using the games normal rendering with a different POV. They aren't specially cut and rendered scenes, so adding lighting changes wouldn't really create work for them like you are thinking.

[Derekloffin]

That's not entirely true... at least before Cataclysm, visiting Greyman Wall at night and the Worgen NPCs were in wolf form. During the day, human form.

 

So they have the tech and it would indeed be cool to see it used more!

 

The Worgen shift to human was also purely cosmetic. Day or Night, fighting them was identical, they just had a different look. It's the closest WoW got to something non-cosmetic, but it was still just cosmetic. WoW actually had reason for that, in their use of a 24 hour day (so people that could only log in during the night weren't at any advantage/disadvantage verses those that could log in only in the day, or anytime).

 

FFXI, by contrast (and I'm sure other MMOs), had actually non-cosmetic changes at day and night, like undead coming out during the night, but they could do that because their day night cycles were much shorter (I think it was an hour or two as I recall, been a long time). Shorter day and night meant everyone could likely experience both regardless of their RL schedule.

[Raeln]

BTW -- it does.

 

The environments don't go totally pitch-black, but the outdoor, ambient light changes from about 11pm to 5am every day. It even changes in battlegrounds.

 

It's also bound to server time, so most players don't even notice it.

 

I think that speaks to how important the day/night cycle really is to players.

[Raeln]

I have literally "finished" the game in a week or so. All that's left to do now in senselessly grind PvP.

 

There is far too little content in this game. I seriously can't wait for a serious MMO like GW2 to come out.

 

You experienced all eight class story arcs?

You unlocked all the available codex entries for every planet?

You maxed out the affection for all 40 companions and experienced their story arcs?

You completed all the hardmode Flashpoints and cleared Nightmare mode Operations?

 

Somehow, I don't think you did all that in "a week or so".

[BlackZoback]

Cosmetic would still be an improvement.

 

But its still entirely unneeded, and would require a metric ton of work to implement in a game that it doesn't already exist in.

 

Unless it actively does something, it's useless fluff and easily overlooked and forgotten that it even existed.

 

That is until some raving fanboy points it out.

 

Btw those pics of the day/night cycles are pre BC, because afterwards the made day and night almost indistinguishable because of the complaints from people who could only play at night.

[Raeln]

No, one is right the other is wrong. WoW does have day/night cycles. The sun moves in the sky. You can watch is rise and watch it set. How are they both right and wrong?

 

One says "There are no day/night cycles in WoW"

the other says "There are day/night cycles in WoW"

 

 

There is no gray area here.

 

Yes, they have a day/night cycle - no, they have virtually no impact on the game as most players play the exact same time of day every day, hence, they never notice any difference in the day/night cycle.

 

If you are going to have a day/night cycle in the game, it needs to move fast enough so that everyone experiences it at some point in their play time. For many years, I did not even realize there was a cycle until I happened to have a day off (that wasn't a Tuesday) and logged in during late morning hours - at that point I remember thinking, "man, why's it so bright?"

 

After that, I was a bit disappointed that my normal playtime was always during the later evening hours when everything wasn't as vibrant.

 

Since that experience in WoW - I'm happy that TOR has no day/night cycle.

[Lethality]

But its still entirely unneeded, and would require a metric ton of work to implement in a game that it doesn't already exist in.

 

And that is the root of most of the concern... these are things that definitely should have been baked-in from the start, so it isn't an act of congress to implement later. This is the lack of features folks are talking about. And the marathon it will be to even catch up.

[RycheMykola]

completely agree...lvl 60 Naxxramas...0.5% of all players at that time killed a boss in there...but yeah raidcontent is easy in wow.... i lol'd

 

not to mention that handling 40 members is wwaaaaaayyyyy harder then 16... i lol'd again..

Max raid size in WOW is 25, not 40.

 

Level 60 Nax was like 5 years ago. That Nax no longer exists and has been made stupid easy.

 

I find it funny posters like you state "You need to compare SWTOR to WOW, now!" , but when it suits your needs, you bring up stuff from WOW at launch.