This game lacks epeen

[DrShikima]

So, the bulk of the arguments on here feel they need epeen because said lives are lacking any significance or direction and all energies must be focused on a video game as a livelihood?

[Mynden]

So, the bulk of the arguments on here feel they need epeen because said lives are lacking any significance or direction and all energies must be focused on a video game as a livelihood?

 

Logical fallacy considering you're the one advocating everyone gets their special feeling from a videogame. We're asking for a challenge that we may or may not complete.

[Arkerus]

I was on my third mmo by the time WoW came out. WoW was the first for your kind, and thats the problem. Like I said, with the so called dead model you keep taking to ad absurdum, craptons of people I knew progressively raided in the 1-2 days a week they played. You have brown colored glasses of bitterness for whatever reason you failed at vanilla WoW.

 

That low percentage you're misquoting and miscontruing from WoW dev's was them talking about the people who COMPLETED all the raid content, not just raided. Very very few beat the game, just as it should be. Its people who think their sub automatically entitles them to beat a game that has ruined online gaming over these past years. Thats why titles like CoD have stayed king for soo long, because you can't welfare away multiplayer FPS.

 

Name one mmo that has even held a candle to WoW's success and just like you keep saying to people, I want proof. People don't want welfare mmos, not casuals, not even bads. People need a reason to aspire to do better in all games let alone mmos. People who demand an entitled trophy really just want facebook with an avatar.

 

I've pretty much discounted everything you said since you can't get your facts straight.

 

You don't have the facts right.

You don't understand the basic build structure in today's games.

You don't even grasp the basic logic of what I said. NO one asked for free gear. No one logs on and gets free gear.

 

As other people have pointed out, your personal attacks and strawmen have made you out for what you are:

 

An elitist video game warrior who believes that all games should be built around their model.

 

 

Too bad its dead and gone. See ya later.

 

Anyone who puts in the effort can have the rewards, not just those who log on for hours because its all they do.

If that isn't your cup of tea...go play a Korean grinder.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Arkerus

[Stupiddrummer]

this game lacks aspirations.

[Aepervius]

Which without a reasonable challenge to it will be consumed within a week or 2 by everyone, and we'll be right back where we are now. Not logging on with nothing to do.

 

No because the majority of the player base don't reach that point.

 

WOW own statistic was that less than 50% do raid, and less than 5% finish a raid tier before the next is published.

 

ONLY the hardcore finish that stuff in weeks. Casual are only *now* starting to reach the last level (if even that, I would be personally only going in the 40ish zone next week).

Edited February 29, 2012 by Aepervius

[Mynden]

No because the majority of the player base don't reach that point.

 

WOW own statistic was that less than 50% do raid, and less than 5% finish a raid tier before the next is published.

 

ONLY the hardcore finish that stuff in weeks. Casual are only *now* starting to reach the last level (if even that, I would be personally only going in the 40ish zone next week).

 

I was commenting on your statement that the dev time should be spent on new planets and stories. So unless Corellia took you a month to finish, or you were progressing on Kaon under siege for 6 weeks I stand by my statement. Content like that is time consuming to develop as well, and doesnt have the shelf life of a tough raid. It's an excuse that's constantly made around here and it doesn't hold up. Casual content is burned through quickly, even by casuals.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Mynden

[Matte_Black]

I get what you're saying, but I don't know if thats entirely accurate either. Many of the "casual" players I come across don't want to savor content. They flip if they can't clear it instantly. "It's too hard" or "I already have a job" are common complaints I hear if someone dares suggest things be in this game that require time and skill to accomplish.

 

There is obviously some space between running into content over your head that stalls you and hurrying through content at the expense of following the story or taking in the surroundings. I also think alot of those "casuals" you are describing as in a rush are probably players in the middle of the spectrum or feeling some pressure that they "have to" reach the underveloped endgame that tends to come largely from the hard-core crowd.

[Vlaxitov]

I've pretty much discounted everything you said since you can't get your facts straight.

 

You don't have the facts right.

You don't understand the basic build structure in today's games.

You don't even grasp the basic logic of what I said. NO one asked for free gear. No one logs on and gets free gear.

 

 

As other people have pointed out, your personal attacks and strawmen have made you out for what you are:

 

An elitist video game warrior who believes that all games should be built around their model.

 

 

Too bad its dead and gone. See ya later.

 

Anyone who puts in the effort can have the rewards, not just those who log on for hours because its all they do.

If that isn't your cup of tea...go play a Korean grinder.

 

Your response here is zero substance, zero refutation and 100% personal attack. Then you turn around and accuse me of the same. Seriously, you didn't refute one thing I said and as far as personal attacks, its you who is saying people who raided in past mmos are "no lifers." You're the one making emotional arguments. I'm just saying "give me something to want to do." Maybe you raided in past mmos and had no life, it ends there.

 

Come back after 2 months of being level 50 with this same story that the engame in its current state is good for this game, I dare you.

[Matte_Black]

So, the bulk of the arguments on here feel they need epeen because said lives are lacking any significance or direction and all energies must be focused on a video game as a livelihood?

 

I'd say you are taking that too far but, many people play in an effort to gain attention or reward for their in-game accomplishments. They might do great things in real life but, for what ever reason, they crave this sort of affirmation. Often times it has to do with the more consistent distribution of reward for their effort that such games offer.

[Mynden]

There is obviously some space between running into content over your head that stalls you and hurrying through content at the expense of following the story or taking in the surroundings. I also think alot of those "casuals" you are describing as in a rush are probably players in the middle of the spectrum or feeling some pressure that they "have to" reach the underveloped endgame that tends to come largely from the hard-core crowd.

 

So here's the option. You make content that is clearable by the majority of players, it means a ton of your players are going to finish and then sit around with nothing to do. You make content that is harder, you keep people logging in. They key is to not make it so hard that it feels unfair. I truly feel if the players who want everything handed to them get their way, the game will die. You can't design an MMO like a single player rpg. They aren't meant to be the same thing. MMO's are about creating a long term community of players that maintain their subs. After you "beat the game" most will stop logging on.

[Agenteusa]

What does anything have to do with a bad thinking hes awesome because he got carried to gear in past mmos. In this game a bad doesen't need carried to gear, its handed to you in the first month or two of playing it.

 

I wasn´t going to say anything but then you posted this and somehow lost a part of your reasoning.

 

First let me say that it´s strange that almost all the people who post here talking about wow are all "great" players. Either clearing content in 1 week or downing C´Thun 40 man pre nerf or saying wow was the easiest mmo ever. I´ve seen it all.

That alone makes me approach what people say with some doubts.

 

Being a "bad" like you call it and relying on others to get gear doesn´t fulfill me (my opinion) simply because I know I was just carried. So the way you put it you can be a "bad" yourself (not saying you are, just saying its possible).

 

Second , a bad does need to get carried to get the best gear in this game (It´s not a hard game, but a bad can´t do it with other bads).

 

Tell me why should I continue to pay a fee for a game I've already beaten with nothing else to aspire for?

 

Nobody needs to tell you why, its like your trying to find a reason to play the game. you should have that answer yourself. No offense meant.

 

To finalise, people tend to say "I´m doing this or that content". Remember, it´s not you that are doing it. It´s your guild/group which probably has backbone to get the content done faster. It only takes one change in a healer to notice a difference. So don´t presume that if you and your group can down content fast or easily that all others can as it´s not true.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Agenteusa

[Vlaxitov]

I wasn´t going to say anything but then you posted this and somehow lost a part of your reasoning.

 

First let me say that it´s strange that almost all the people who post here talking about wow are all "great" players. Either clearing content in 1 week or downing C´Thun 40 man pre nerf or saying wow was the easiest mmo ever. I´ve seen it all.

That alone makes me approach what people say with some doubts.

 

I never said any mmo was hard or easy outside of this one in. Sounds like you're saying everyone who plays mmos does so at the same level of hand eye coordination or strategy level and that makes me approach what you say with doubts.

 

Being a "bad" like you call it and relying on others to get gear doesn´t fulfill me (my opinion) simply because I know I was just carried. So the way you put it you can be a "bad" yourself (not saying you are, just saying its possible).

 

Second , a bad does need to get carried away to get the best gear in this game (It´s not a hard game, but a bad can´t do it with other bads).

 

You assert that all mmos are easy and that all people are as good as one another then contradict yourself. Outside of that theres no point to be found here.

 

 

 

Nobody needs to tell you why, its like your trying to find a reason to play the game. you should have that answer yourself. No offense meant.

 

I do want a reason to play the game more than 3-4 hours a week. Currently that reason is just not there and thats a shame because the core gameplay is there, just not the content or reward system. If vanilla WoW and this were baseballs games, Vanilla WoW would have 9 innings and this would have 3 innings imho.

 

 

To finalise, people tend to say "I´m doing this or that content". Remember, it´s not you that are doing it. It´s your guild/group which probably has backbone to get the content done faster. It only takes one change in a healer to notice a difference. So don´t presume that if you and your group can down content fast or easily that all others can as it´s not true.

 

What really discredits this claim is its nothing for pug groups to beat the raids the first time they see them.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Clawrod]

You say I have an ego problem then boast about you're accomplishments in this game despite being a superior human being with more important things to do than someone who does better at online games than you. What a joke. Try joining an amature baseball league, then tell the people who play better than you that its due to a combo of them affording better equipment and having a crappier meaningless life compared to you thus they have more hours to practice, and see how long you last. Only online anonymity could make someone comfortable enough to spew the nonesense you did right here.

 

 

 

What does anything have to do with a bad thinking hes awesome because he got carried to gear in past mmos. In this game a bad doesen't need carried to gear, its handed to you in the first month or two of playing it. Tell me why should I continue to pay a fee for a game I've already beaten with nothing else to aspire for? That might be great for people who play this game 1-2 hours a week. I currently play this game 4 hours a week. Wanna know why? Its because I log on to do my weekly LBRS/UBRS runs in a couple different modes.

 

 

 

 

I keep hearing this fallacy parroted over and over. Some mmo devs say very few completed, I repeat, COMPLETED the raid content and you loud & proud welfare recipients misquote it as very few people raided at all. You're lying and even if you weren't, if you didn't raid then you wanted to and that gave you a reason to play the game beyond a single player RPG. If you look at population trends in most current mmos, the pattern represents about how long I stay interested in a single player RPG and why shouldn't it.

 

 

 

Again, coming from a guy who says I have an ego problem, lulz.

 

 

if you keep hearing ppl tell you the same thing over and over its maybe because its true but apparently you dont want to belive it. your prob.

 

secondly and finally if you don't like it stop playing and stop QQing in forums. if you like wow better then what are u still doing here?!

 

As for my ego YES i do have one but at least i ADMIT it and it was build by many many years of gaming and international competitions were me and my guild owned many other whiners like yourself.

 

i wont waist any more time trying to make you see something that you clearly don't want to see.

 

stay well and have fun.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Clawrod

[Kaedian]

This game has no epeen factor or skill factor and that is why my server is dying fast.

 

We have 4 guilds that have cleared all nightmare 16 man raid content. Countless others doing 8 man.

 

Most pvpers got all the battlemaster gear and I never see them on anymore because they either quit or are waiting for some sort of incentive to log in again.

 

I don't think this game lacked endgame content, it was just way too easy to beat and way too easy to get all the gear in the game, pve and pvp.

 

Whatever hardcore playerbase was/is here needs challenging content and a reason to farm it. Quality pvp players need a competitive situation and not just a stupid RNG grind.

 

1.2 better hurry and it better be incredible, with rated warzones and compelling/challenging content.............but it might already be too late.

 

You can argue all day about game is failing/successful or thriving/dying but I can only tell you what I witness on my own server as someone who cares, and I have seen our pop dwindling, with our hardcore playerbase bleeding out extremely fast.

 

Maybe you want the more hardcore players gone, maybe you dislike them for whatever reason, but the hardcore playerbase is a good base of an MMO, you don't want to lose them.

 

In short, this game needs more epeen and reasons for hardcore players to keep playing.

 

It is a short window to keep us here before we move onto the next big thing or end up going back to MMO's that we came from that are simply doing it better. I was patient, gave game a couple of months, wasn't going to jump ship so fast, but time is running short.

 

You only hear or have bad experiences with the minority of hardcore players. The majority of them are good people who absolutely drive MMO's because they care.

 

They are the ones who create awesome websites with strats and videos for bosses, or the math nerds who theorycraft all the best specs and how to gear and spreadsheets and 3rd party programs to make the game better if you are into that stuff.

 

They are the ones who are comfortable leading PUG raids (ops) in their sparetime or leading rated pvp teams.

 

They are the ones who run smaller dungeon/flashpoint content multiple times looking for specific gear or trying out a new spec or playing alts or maybe even just for fun, while a casual may run it only once just to see it, this makes more groups happening and more often!

 

They are the ones who run the best guilds and push content and develop rivalries and server communities in both PVE and PVP.

 

They are the ones who are very active on the GTN and help drive the server economy.

 

They are the ones willing to test new content on patches on the test servers.

 

You may not want to believe it or care, but losing your hardcore playerbase has a very important trickle down effect on the servers. They are the players that are around the most and you will notice it when they are gone, I already am noticing it and it is not good.

 

Edit: Added one of my other posts to this as I felt it was relevant and helped add to my original point.

 

/waves hand

 

This is not the mmo you're looking for.

[Vlaxitov]

if you keep hearing ppl tell you the same thing over and over its maybe because its true but apparently you dont want to belive it. your prob.

 

secondly and finally if you don't like it **** and stop QQing in forums. if you like wow better *** are u still doing here?!

 

As for my ego YES i do have one but at least i ADMIT it and it was build by many many years of gaming and international competitions were me and my guild owned many other whiners like yourself.

 

i wont waist any more time trying to make you see something that you clearly don't want to see.

 

stay well and have fun.

 

No its a lie. The WoW devs said specifically that a small percentage of the playerbase FINISHED the raid content. Then people like you twist it into only a small percentage of people raided at all.

 

Again, only online anonymity would make someone comfortable enough to claim they are a proffesional gamer in a mmo forum. With all due respect, thats extremely laughable.

 

You say in a much less respectul manner that if I don't think theres enough to do or aspiration enough to keep playing, then why am I here complaining about it? The real question is if you think this game is dandy with enough to do, then why are you here arguing with me? Personally, I wouldn't have the time due to all that fun I'd be having.

 

You're disrespectful, your arguments are bad, and the "I'm a seasoned pro gamer" claim was just over the top. You woudln't speak to me in person in the way you are here, I guarantee it. Take care.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Agenteusa]

I never said any mmo was hard or easy outside of this one in. Sounds like you're saying everyone who plays mmos does so at the same level of hand eye coordination or strategy level and that makes me approach what you say with doubts.

Not even commenting this one, seriously.

 

 

 

You assert that all mmos are easy and that all people are as good as one another then contradict yourself. Outside of that theres no point to be found here.

No, I assume this mmo is easy for me and based on my experience I can come to the conclusion (its not a fact, dont take it as such) that a group of "bads" (only using this term because you used it so we´re on the same level) can´t do content easily from normal modes on.

Besides, I never stated my opinion on how easy this or other games were aside from a couple of lines ago but even if I would find all mmo´s easy , I can still understand not all people have equal levels of skill so I´m not asking for new content for a game thats been out for 1 month (I say 1 month cause there were some unbearable bugs before that).

 

 

 

What really discredits this claim is its nothing for pug groups to beat the raids the first time they see them.

Nothing discredits an opinion, my friend. Stop taking everything as a fact.

[Vlaxitov]

Nothing discredits an opinion, my friend. Stop taking everything as a fact.

 

So pugs clearing raids on their first time seeing it doesen't fly in the face of "your opinion?"

 

Come on now.

[warultima]

Also there are couple "epeen factors" that can be implemented for free. For example DPS parser ect.

 

Also the newer contents should be more challenging. We cleared HM EV the 2nd time we've been in there, completely skipping the normal mode of it with a few fresh 50s in greens rocking 11000-12000 hp.

 

There's no bragging of "World 1st" like Rift's Hammerknell Fortress where when it was introduced it was "super" challenging. Top guilds are worshiped for completing it. They have to consistently NERFING the contents because there are still 80% of the guilds unable to kill the final boss even after 6 months of releasing the content with most people completely over-gearing the place. The slowly nerf boss by boss so people can get geared up in order to push out even more new challenging contents.

 

SWTOR's Nightmare mode is like the normal 5 man heroic dungeons when Rift was released possibly quite a bit easier.

 

I can see why BW did it (making the hardest endgame content ultra easy), maybe they anticipated players with none raiding background to be playing this game. But easy mode catering out the top endgame gears can only go so far. Heck for the epeen factor, Rifts got COMBATLOG websites that hosts all DPS/Healing meters so people can compare their epeen to others.

 

Yes I look forward to 1.2, including some very useful features like UI improvements and dual specs (or more). Definitely wishing for harder end game contents and possibly combatlog/parser for real epeen purpose.

 

I might get flamed by some people that refuse/against parsers because they do not what people see their performance in raid but whatever.

 

Edit: Content difficulty I mentioned of Rift expert dungeons (5 men) were pre-Nerf which is easily harder than the NM 16 men content currently SWTOR has to offer.

Edited February 29, 2012 by warultima

[Kheld]

I have to agree somewhat with the original poster.

 

Since a lot of the PvPers took advantage of the exploits & cheated ther way to get to level 50, Valour Rank 65 & full BM gear sets, they have nothing left to strive for.

[Elyx]

I'm not a huge fan of the whole harcore/casual argument. it's almost older then MMO's themselves. a small group of the populace thinks far too much of themselves. the bulk of the populace fails to understand how the edge game content drives innovation in a genre. they are both critical elements to the game folks!

 

On this conversation, the game does need progressive content...but it doesn't need to be cutting edge. I've played plenty of successful games that put out challenging end game content that didn't require edge of your seat min/maxing. there certainly is a place for that, but it doesn't have to be every game.

 

I don't fit into either of the categories people are arguing about. I did my share of raiding in various games. Don't have any need for it. but I love challenging content. and I enjoy challenging myself through the entire process of the game, from lvl 1 to lvl whatever.

 

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't balance dev time. the problem (and the reason) so many casuals dis the "upper edge content" is that games like WoW have decided to ignore the middle content and make the end game THE game.

 

Swtor has been great in the fact that its early and mid game is very rich and rewarding. they really shouldn't stop that! there's a huge player base that loves that material (me included). but end game content drives innovation (much of it beneficial...not ALL, but much).

 

the part about this argument that tends to get on peoples nerves (on both sides) is the completely childish idea that one aspect of the community is more important then the other. Now...a Dev has to make a decision based on lots of parameters, and unfortunately, player population is a big part of that. but they also recognize that without progression (whether it's flexible progression or hardlined progression),that the game doesn't mature.

 

Flip sides of the same coin friends! lets not shoot ourselves in the foot. we need progression at end game, AND rich early and mid game content, as well as a fully fleshed out end game that doesn't force anyone into a mold (raiding vs. PvP vs. crafting). there's absolutely no reason why they can proportion dev time for each.

[Pekish]

Hardcore/Casual is the main problem of the game a person that invest 8 hour a day playing with a person investing 2/3 hour a day

 

it's like having a NBA team playing with highschool kids

 

is it fun?

 

Rather then have PVP server and PVE server they should understand that the real difference is between TIME INVESTED (that is really the only thing that matter in a MMO) and not silly pvp-pve... those thing pvp-pve cna be regulated easily but the TIME INVESTED CANNOT!

 

 

so i rather see server capped at 25 hour a week (with lowered xp/material requirment)

and server "non stop" (with X2 or X3 material and xp requirment)

 

rather then server PVP and PVE because the real difference between player IS THE TIME

Edited February 29, 2012 by Pekish

[Saurakk]

By spending time on one aspect of the game does not mean they are taking away from developing other aspects of the game.

 

Many time the companies have various teams to focus on their specialties whatever they may be, (crafting, pvp, quests, raiding, bugs, graphics, etc).

 

IF the game company feels it is worth their time and investment, they will put resources towards developing whatever content that they feel will be profitable for them.

 

I am not sure why so many people have this mis-guided hatred towards raiding and those who choose to do so.

 

For those people so against adding raid level content that many ask for, why are you so against it before even knowing if putting it in will have ANY negative effect on you at all?

 

Its almost as if some want it kept out just to gloat that people who like to raid difficult content cannot do it in THIS game.

[Notannos]

Hey everyone,

 

We recently had to remove posts from this thread due to posts that did not contribute constructive discussion. A reminder that regardless of the topic, it is part of our Rules of Conduct that:

• 
  
• Never insult another member of the community.
  
• Respect other community members, whether they agree with you or not.
  
• Flag, don't fight. Use the "flag" feature to report posts to our Community Team if you see someone breaking the rules – don't respond to them!
  
• Make constructive, on-topic posts that add to the discussion.
  

Thank you for understanding.

[Agenteusa]

So pugs clearing raids on their first time seeing it doesen't fly in the face of "your opinion?"

 

Come on now.

 

 

Normal ops are entry level and meant for all types of players. BW stated that and I hope you´re not making me go through tons of info to find that. HM or NiM to me (again my opinion since we can´t make that as fact neither me or you) are completely different. My server is the most populated server( yes thats a fact) and I´ve yet to see pugs forming up for HM let alone complete them. Which doesnt make it 100% accurate (you seem to like numbers) as there might be some pugs doing it , its just I failed to see it yet.

 

And again even in normal not every pug clears it at first, you were the one stating that and ssuming it. If you go back a few posts and see what you posted you will verify this.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Agenteusa

[Arkerus]

Your response here is zero substance, zero refutation and 100% personal attack. Then you turn around and accuse me of the same. Seriously, you didn't refute one thing I said and as far as personal attacks, its you who is saying people who raided in past mmos are "no lifers." You're the one making emotional arguments. I'm just saying "give me something to want to do." Maybe you raided in past mmos and had no life, it ends there.

 

Come back after 2 months of being level 50 with this same story that the engame in its current state is good for this game, I dare you.

 

I stated you don't have the facts right, which is a fact. End of story bub.

If you beat the content already because you literally have been on the game the whole time that is YOUR fault and not bioware.

 

I don't have to refute your previous statements because you don't get it.

 

You want ultra-barrier-to-entry-epeen BS and that's not what this game, and more recent games are about. Then you say "thats why people keep playing" and thats factually not true. The "majority" player base is not YOU. Sorry pal, thats not how it is.

 

You are bored with the game because you spent all your spare time playing it and now what Bioware to hand you some cookie so you can look better than everyone else.

 

Thats not how this game is made man. Get over it. I'm sorry but this isn't your game to dictate how to hand our rewards. There are plenty of Korean grinders to play if you want to grind out gear and other items that only drop to the players who play the most.

 

The moment you stop measuring your self worth by a video game the better.

 

 

Games are about rewarding those who beat the content, not about who plays the most. We all get purples because we are all working to beat the content. Not just you.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Arkerus