Scoundrel Is a Joke

[aypolo]

SCOUNDREL

 

IS

 

UNDERPOWERED

 

 

 

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only strong reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not much to say here, it's pretty weak and not worth speccing for pvp/pve {PLEASE NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS INTENDED FOR PVP BALANCE, NOT PVE. THAT'S WHY IT'S IN PVP SECTION.}

 

All three specs SERIOUSLY lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

 

healing spec: Who cares what other people want

dps: The only reason really? Are you sure?

Dot: Nice opinion bro

 

He happens to be right on all three accounts.

 

Sawbones is widely regarded as the weakest healer (even by BioWare).

 

Dirty Fighting is a clunky mess of 10-20m ranged abilities with no way to gain Upper Hand other than a melee attack (Blaster Whip), meaning you're constantly forced to dance around your target in melee range like a mosquito to farm Upper Hands for Wounding Shots.

 

And Scrapper is now a wholly unremarkable shell of it's former self. There's no reason to bring the marginally higher burst of a Scrapper and sacrifice the better survivability, better sustained DPS, and utility of an Infiltration Shadow.

 

1. Scoundrels can only heal on the run(excluding srmp) if they get a lot of lucky UH procs from SRMP/Blasterwhip or the target has under 30% hp and even then emergency medpac heals for very little(as it should)

2. Without UH, scoundrels have one castable heal and if that is interrupted, you are unable to heal yourself(excluding srmp), compared to a sorcerer who has two castable heals and a channeled heal

 

SRMP is a nice healing ability and yes it is better than the sorcerer's equivalent, but one positive in a sea of negatives does not make it equal to the sorcerer. Overall, healing scoundrels have way less utility and adaptability than their sorcerer counterparts.

 

Stripping sorcerers of force speed and giving scoundrels a tech equivalent and a 100% chance to get a UH proc from SRMP would go a long way towards balancing the classes(healing wise).

 

 

 

 

Update 2/28/12

FORMER TITLE: Scoundrel is a joke.

New Title: Scoundrel is Underpowered

Edited February 29, 2012 by aypolo
Update

[Acindo]

Threads like this make me sad.

 

If played well, they are still very good.

 

Big if in most cases...

[Remdo]

Threads like this make me sad.

 

If played well, they are still very good.

 

Big if in most cases...

 

You need to add: If played well (against scrubs), they are still very good.

 

 

[Aetou]

Scrappers are still fine in PVP. Maybe lacking a bit of utility, but they should still be getting 6-8 medals a game very comfortably.

 

Dirty Fighting.... yes, that one is pretty broken.

 

Sawbones needs a few tweaks but isn't terrible.

[Redmarx]

Operatives/Scoundrels need major buff right now, they suck hard.

[Remdo]

Scrappers are still fine in PVP. Maybe lacking a bit of utility, but they should still be getting 6-8 medals a game very comfortably.

 

Dirty Fighting.... yes, that one is pretty broken.

 

Sawbones needs a few tweaks but isn't terrible.

 

Since this is a team based game (is how everyone so delicately likes to put it) I consider classes that bring no utility to a team fight, useless.

 

Ofcourse operatives and scoundrels can perform well, any class can, against worse geared and or less skilled players. But going against real PvPers that know who and how to shut down important people, such as healers, hard dps and tough tanks, the operative/scoundrel really is mediocre at best.

 

All you can remember is that one time when the BM ops took you down in a cc chain, not realizing he was full BM geared, not realizing he had rakata stim and adrenal popped, not realizing you were in leveling gear not realizing a sniper shot u as well, not realizing he might have been better than u? (because it is possible, there's always someone better than you in this game, awlays) etc.. Selective memory.

 

Operatives and scoundrels dont need a nerf, but a slight buff in either utility, sustained dps or survivability.

 

Sawbones/medicine is terrible, if u compare it to sage/sorc trooper/bh healers.

Here's where selective memory comes inte play again.

 

You probably saw this one scoundrel doing hideous amounts of healing, not knowing he was the only healer in ur team, not knowing he had guard, not knowing enemy team were scrubs.

 

its simple, combare utility and survivability between the classes, pros and cons. And u will soon come to realize why ppl that play ops and sounds complain.....

 

over and out.

[LoL-K-Noob]

I agree, the class I fear the least and know its an automatic win 1v1 is operatives. But snipers are a whole nother story dropping me quick with huge burst. LoS the only way I can win.

[Evuke]

assuming equal gear and equal skill:

 

every other class > operative/scoundrel

 

it's sad because before they were nerfed they were pretty balanced, lots of burst but no real sustained dps, but now they've still got no real sustained dps, but they've also got fairly average burst too.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Evuke

[Evil_Santa]

Since this is a team based game (is how everyone so delicately likes to put it) I consider classes that bring no utility to a team fight, useless.

 

Ofcourse operatives and scoundrels can perform well, any class can, against worse geared and or less skilled players. But going against real PvPers that know who and how to shut down important people, such as healers, hard dps and tough tanks, the operative/scoundrel really is mediocre at best.

 

All you can remember is that one time when the BM ops took you down in a cc chain, not realizing he was full BM geared, not realizing he had rakata stim and adrenal popped, not realizing you were in leveling gear not realizing a sniper shot u as well, not realizing he might have been better than u? (because it is possible, there's always someone better than you in this game, awlays) etc.. Selective memory.

 

Operatives and scoundrels dont need a nerf, but a slight buff in either utility, sustained dps or survivability.

 

Sawbones/medicine is terrible, if u compare it to sage/sorc trooper/bh healers.

Here's where selective memory comes inte play again.

 

You probably saw this one scoundrel doing hideous amounts of healing, not knowing he was the only healer in ur team, not knowing he had guard, not knowing enemy team were scrubs.

 

its simple, combare utility and survivability between the classes, pros and cons. And u will soon come to realize why ppl that play ops and sounds complain.....

 

over and out.

 

Your argument is lacking any weight. First off i'm geared pretty well (all champ) and last night 2 scoundrels were tag-teaming us in hutt-ball. They were hitting me for 2.5k - 3.5k damage with every hit. That means i'm dead in 5 - 6 hits. With 2 of them attacking, they stun, my breaker is on cd, and im dead in 4 seconds - before the first stun is worn off.

 

So when 2 scoundrels/ops team up, they're nuking people in 3 - 4 seconds.

 

How is that "suck"? Even as a sorc I have to pop multiple CDs with another sorc to kill someone in 6 - 8 seconds. Does that mean us sorc/sages are uber-suck?

[furiousferret]

Your argument is lacking any weight. First off i'm geared pretty well (all champ) and last night 2 scoundrels were tag-teaming us in hutt-ball. They were hitting me for 2.5k - 3.5k damage with every hit. That means i'm dead in 5 - 6 hits. With 2 of them attacking, they stun, my breaker is on cd, and im dead in 4 seconds - before the first stun is worn off.

 

So when 2 scoundrels/ops team up, they're nuking people in 3 - 4 seconds.

 

How is that "suck"? Even as a sorc I have to pop multiple CDs with another sorc to kill someone in 6 - 8 seconds. Does that mean us sorc/sages are uber-suck?

 

So your argument is that the class (which is your supposed counter) is great 2 on 1? What class isn't?

[Remdo]

Your argument is lacking any weight. First off i'm geared pretty well (all champ) and last night 2 scoundrels were tag-teaming us in hutt-ball. They were hitting me for 2.5k - 3.5k damage with every hit. That means i'm dead in 5 - 6 hits. With 2 of them attacking, they stun, my breaker is on cd, and im dead in 4 seconds - before the first stun is worn off.

 

So when 2 scoundrels/ops team up, they're nuking people in 3 - 4 seconds.

 

How is that "suck"? Even as a sorc I have to pop multiple CDs with another sorc to kill someone in 6 - 8 seconds. Does that mean us sorc/sages are uber-suck?

 

No because u two sage/sorcs can score the huttball within 10 secs, pulls and sprints.

Team based game where the objective wins games, sorcs (you) shine, ops (we) dont.

 

Your argument is lacking, im not sure, what is your argument again?

[Sookster]

Operative/scounderal are at the bottom of the barrel for pve content, at least endgame content. I think operative/scounderal is more of a pvp class (like rogue in WoW, witch elf in WAR, and assassin in Aion). Edited February 26, 2012 by Sookster

[aypolo]

So your argument is that the class (which is your supposed counter) is great 2 on 1? What class isn't?

 

This 100%

 

And glad to see people agree with me.

 

 

@Sookster - they aren't a pvp class : THEY HAVE NO UTILITY. Whenever I see a scoundrel on my team I roll my eyes, knowing that they will not contribute nearly as much as other players.

Edited February 27, 2012 by aypolo

[Audenlol]

This 100%

 

And glad to see people agree with me.

 

 

@Sookster - they aren't a pvp class : THEY HAVE NO UTILITY. Whenever I see a scoundrel on my team I roll my eyes, knowing that they will not contribute nearly as much as other players.

 

except when they have 7+ medals and top damage done in the WZ.

 

/rollseyes

 

 

Op's and scounders still borderline OP if played with any amount of skill.

 

 

But hey guys, why try to rationalize it with these people.. they thought taking you from 100 - dead was ok.

[aypolo]

except when they have 7+ medals and top damage done in the WZ.

 

/rollseyes

 

 

Op's and scounders still borderline OP if played with any amount of skill.

 

 

But hey guys, why try to rationalize it with these people.. they thought taking you from 100 - dead was ok.

 

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

Especially the consistent 7+ medal part.

[Cataphractone]

Pics or it didn't happen.

Especially the consistent 7+ medal part.

 

I can get 7 to 10 medals a game fairly easily on my operative.

 

The problem with Operatives is the lack of mobility. Every time I get huttball I die a little inside because I'm pretty useless in that Warzone. Sure, I can kill people until the Warrior carrying the flag jumps up a level, a sorc sprints through a fire, or a sorc pulls someone up to another catwalk.

 

I have no ranged attacks that are worth a damn, and I have no gap closer.

 

Damage I do fine. Hell the other day I crit someone for 5300 hidden strike and a 4700 backstab. Damage is fine. Gimme some damn utility other than killing people.

[hulkweazel]

Your argument is lacking any weight. First off i'm geared pretty well (all champ) and last night 2 scoundrels were tag-teaming us in hutt-ball. They were hitting me for 2.5k - 3.5k damage with every hit. That means i'm dead in 5 - 6 hits. With 2 of them attacking, they stun, my breaker is on cd, and im dead in 4 seconds - before the first stun is worn off.

 

So when 2 scoundrels/ops team up, they're nuking people in 3 - 4 seconds.

 

How is that "suck"? Even as a sorc I have to pop multiple CDs with another sorc to kill someone in 6 - 8 seconds. Does that mean us sorc/sages are uber-suck?

Maybe because you were trying to melee the scoundrels? Seriously. If you know what you're doing scoundrels will never touch you in huttball. They're a melee class with no closing ability. I'd trade the extra damage for an AoE knockback-root and sprint (All on extremely short cooldowns) any day.

 

Seriously. L2P. You just suck bad at PvP because you're too used to easymode playing a sorc.

Edited February 27, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Cataphractone]

oops double post. Edited February 27, 2012 by Cataphractone

[Tzou]

OPs are one of the best classes in pvp.

 

as healers they can kite a whole premade and give time to others to kill u.

 

as dps they still kick sorcs asses if they suprise them.

 

their job is to play sneaky and they still do it perfectly.

 

if u want a godmode toon go mercenary ,were u will kick everyone asses if u are not focused.and probably u wont.

 

imo u shouldnt post this cause everyone that plays more than 5 WZs per day knows how good OPs still are.

[Acindo]

You need to add: If played well (against scrubs), they are still very good.

 

 

 

I said exactly what I wanted to. They are good if you are good. The end.

[MMDI]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

 

Clearly, you have not PvPed with Bubbles.

 

Scoundrel healers are the very best when it comes to PvP (imo) because of their mobility! Also, they giggle a lot.

[Elysion]

nerf imo

i dont care if they suck, they need to continue being nerfed forever because once on voss one knocked me down and i was dead before i could stand up.

 

the giggling is a huge buff by the way, you have no idea how infuriating it is to be trying to kill a scoundrel healer with a cape on whos running around and kicks you then suddenly someone puts a bubble on it and guard and it laughs while its hots are ticking it up faster than your taunted guarded bubbled damage can kill them.

 

I hate them.

 

They are the one thing in this game that upsets me.

[Ozzone]

nerf imo

i dont care if they suck, they need to continue being nerfed forever because once on voss one knocked me down and i was dead before i could stand up.

 

the giggling is a huge buff by the way, you have no idea how infuriating it is to be trying to kill a scoundrel healer with a cape on whos running around and kicks you then suddenly someone puts a bubble on it and guard and it laughs while its hots are ticking it up faster than your taunted guarded bubbled damage can kill them.

 

I hate them.

 

They are the one thing in this game that upsets me.

 

So you're basically saying that you suck and got pwned?

[MashTactics]

Scoundrels and Ops are downright amazing.

 

I remember when people were laughing about how bad Sentinels were... before people learned how to actually play them. If you aren't god damn terrible, then you can top the damage charts easily.

 

The problem is that people don't know how to pick their fights. They see a big zergball and they think, 'Hey, I'm going to go jump in that for no particular reason, because Scoundrels were designed to counter melee classes or something...'

 

Nope. Do something useful for your team. Find a ranged DPS or a healer and **** up it's day. You can permanently lock down a healer until it's dead without breaking a sweat, and if you know how to interrupt, stun, and slow, then ranged DPS classes are a joke.

 

If you're trying to kill PowerTechs, Vanguards, Juggernauts, Guardians, then you should already know why you're underperforming. Scoundrels can stealth. This gives you the option to pick your fights. Don't just jump in with 4 skills bound, and try and kill whatever walks in your direction.

 

Tl;DR, Don't be bad and you won't do bad.

[MorgonKara]

I can get 7 to 10 medals a game fairly easily on my operative.

 

The problem with Operatives is the lack of mobility. Every time I get huttball I die a little inside because I'm pretty useless in that Warzone. Sure, I can kill people until the Warrior carrying the flag jumps up a level, a sorc sprints through a fire, or a sorc pulls someone up to another catwalk.

 

I have no ranged attacks that are worth a damn, and I have no gap closer.

 

Damage I do fine. Hell the other day I crit someone for 5300 hidden strike and a 4700 backstab. Damage is fine. Gimme some damn utility other than killing people.

uhh, how about invisibility?

 

there are a couple really good operatives/scoundrels that pvp on my server and they are one of the few classes that can give my jug serious trouble. they usually wait until im engaged in a fight with another player, stealth up behind me and begin to destroy my hp. i mean really really serious crit damage.

Edited February 27, 2012 by MorgonKara