Are androids and Iphones declared as "required" for playing this game?

[Goretzu]

Are you new to the internet? Fun fact: a majority of people who use computers are not intelligent in terms of security.

 

My dad's email has been hacked no less than 3 times this week.

 

 

But why should people that are "intelligent in terms of security" have to put up safeguards purposely designed for those that are not?

 

The is the train of reason that ends up with "warning: boiling water contained" stickers on kettles.

[jedi-outcast]

OP has a completely valid complaint. Most folks in here are arguing that the security key perks are optional and easily attainable. Fine. I have no problem with the manner in which they are implemented.

 

But in making that argument you are inherently admitting to the fact that these are luxuries/conveniences that are separate from the main content of the game. Following along then, if you admit that these are separate and optional features, then how can you simultaneously argue that this is sufficient to address something that is lacking from the main game?

 

You can't have it both ways! Again, I don't have any issue with the security vendor system, but that response by Bioware was in poor taste and I'm surprised people are defending them for it.

[chton]

Are you new to the internet? Fun fact: a majority of people who use computers are not intelligent in terms of security.

 

My dad's email has been hacked no less than 3 times this week.

 

Hence the moron part...are you new to reading?

[KittyPrawn]

But why should people that are "intelligent in terms of security" have to put up safeguards purposely designed for those that are not?

 

The is the train of reason that ends up with "warning: boiling water contained" stickers on kettles.

 

You don't have to. You just don't get to access perks that other people enjoy.

[ferroz]

Cant buy it here. Your post is misleading.

So... where can't you buy it?

[Oneirophrenia]

There's apparently a shuttle me up option every hour though (so there is a Star Wars option)...... only just on the security key vendor.

 

When I said widespread "beam me up" options, I was referring to Dungeon teleporter in that *other* game. That in my opinion is one of the worst things to have happened in MMOs in general. It completely feeds into the instant gratification crowd. Spoiling your players is not a good thing to do because it is human nature to expect more of the same later. Greed is more pervasive than you realize. CoH learned this lesson the hard way with their AE system (player created content). They made the rewards far too generous and easy to exploit initially and subsequently tried to fix it by hitting it with the nerf bat repeatedly. As a result, some people quit and the AE building turned into a barren wasteland for almost all zones except 1 or 2.

 

If people want that extra level of convenience, there has to be a trade-off. The current fleet pass system (not the emergency one) is already far more generous than I would prefer but to each their own.

 

The travel times in SWTOR are ok the first time you go any where.

 

They are NOT ok:

 

- On the 1000th time you've travelled somewhere

 

- When you need to get somewhere to help a guildie on a one off quest

 

- When you actually need to get somewhere in a hurry more than once every 18 hours

 

- Any time you are sent on an R&R "quest"

 

I have done all of these things on many occasions and I have to yet to feel I was truly inconvenienced by the existing travel system. If I have to wait a few minutes for someone to get to where I am, that just gives me a chance to take a short break to get water, change the TV channel, go to the bathroom, etc. Maybe my tolerance level for such things is just higher than most. Playing MMO to me is about leisure, it is not about rush rush rush, "OMGWTFBBQ WE NEED TO GET THERE NAOW". That type of mentality may have had its place in the past, mainly in MMOs such as EQ where guilds/group had to rush to a raid mob/camp or risk losing out to another guild/group. In the instanced based MMOs of today, not so much. Maybe my tolerance level for such things is just higher than most.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Oneirophrenia

[CedrionKatar]

nope its not required to have one. You can also buy the $4 keygenerator. To the people who are going to freak out about that the generator is to protect your account from YOURSELF. Also, it's $4 so dont freak out like a child.

 

It's $4 in the US? It's £9 (about $14.25) in the UK, exactly the same price as one months subscription. You do get free economy postage, but Origin doesn't state what Economy delivery means or give an estimate for delivery. I suppose that extra $10 is all taxes and delivery costs not price gouging .

[InnateOne]

Oh yes it's shorter, indeed. It's 60 mins afaik. They can do whatever they like and move to FP or GTN as they need it. I can move to fleet once per day, same way as all those who do not want or (as in my case) can not use authentificator.

 

It's also not reusable so you have to buy a new one each use. you can also get a little key chain thing if you don't have an iphone or android.

[Goretzu]

You don't have to. You just don't get to access perks that other people enjoy.

 

But then the reason Bioware aren't looking at quick travel straight to ship is because of this "perk".

 

Therefore it can't be a "perk" because it's blocking a serious travel system improvement.

 

And if it's not a "perk" then why is it on the SKV?

 

 

 

When I said widespread "beam me up" options, I was referring to Dungeon teleporter in that *other* game. That in my opinion is one of the worst things to have happened in MMOs in general. It completely feeds into the instant gratification crowd. Spoiling your players is not a good thing to do because it is human nature to expect more of the same later. Greed is more pervasive than you realize. CoH learned this lesson the hard way with their AE system (player created content). They made the rewards far too generous and easy to exploit initially and subsequently tried to fix it by hitting it with the nerf bat repeatedly. As a result, some people quit and the AE building turned into a barren wasteland for almost all zones except 1 or 2.

 

No idea what WoW has, I'm afraid. I got very bored of WoW just before WoTLK came out, quit, and haven't been back since.

 

Most MMORPGs (that aren't WoW) have a better, more user friendly travel system than SWTOR however.

 

If people want that extra level of convenience, there has to be a trade-off. The current fleet pass system (not the emergency one) is already far more generous than I would prefer but to each their own.

 

There is no "trade off" though, there's a superfluous extra layer of "security" to be able to do something that should be standard in SWTOR (and indeed according to Bioware may be standard if not for the Fleet Pass - unless they intended to limit quick travel to ship to Security Key holders only).

 

 

 

I have done all of these things on many occasions and I have to yet to feel I was truly inconvenienced by the existing travel system. If I have to wait a few minutes for someone to get to where I am, that just gives me a chance to take a short break to get water, change the TV channel, go to the bathroom, etc. Maybe my tolerance level for such things is just higher than most. Playing MMO to me is about leisure, it is not about rush rush rush, "OMGWTFBBQ WE NEED TO GET THERE NAOW". That type of mentality may have had its place in the past, mainly in MMOs such as EQ where guilds/group had to rush to a raid mob/camp or risk losing out to another guild/group. In the instanced based MMOs of today, not so much. Maybe my tolerance level for such things is just higher than most.

 

I see so your argument is basically "if I don't think it's needed, then it's not needed".

 

Fair enough, I (and many others) disagree!

Edited February 28, 2012 by Goretzu

[Iskareot]

Oh yes it's shorter, indeed. It's 60 mins afaik. They can do whatever they like and move to FP or GTN as they need it. I can move to fleet once per day, same way as all those who do not want or (as in my case) can not use authentificator.

 

I bet we pay for it..

 

Like the Special ed

 

Like anything else you pay for in life

 

Like my nice car - gets you around the same but in different times and style (if you go fast)

 

Like flying on a Jet first class -- you pay for it... same result... etc..

 

Like DOING ANYTHING IN ANYTHING YOU PAY FOR AS A PRODUCT....

 

SOOO while you may not like that some people have a iPhone or Android that gets a pass.. I bet we have a APP, that is advertisement which in turn pays for something, when we use the bandwidth to use it... or the cost... or the app itself at 99 cents maybe.. WHO KNOWS>

 

In the end... this is no different then anything else in life or a game. You get what you pay for... and if you want it.. you pay for it.

 

The End

[Goretzu]

I bet we pay for it..

 

Like the Special ed

 

Like anything else you pay for in life

 

Like my nice car - gets you around the same but in different times and style (if you go fast)

 

Like flying on a Jet first class -- you pay for it... same result... etc..

 

Like DOING ANYTHING IN ANYTHING YOU PAY FOR AS A PRODUCT....

 

SOOO while you may not like that some people have a iPhone or Android that gets a pass.. I bet we have a APP, that is advertisement which in turn pays for something, when we use the bandwidth to use it... or the cost... or the app itself at 99 cents maybe.. WHO KNOWS>

 

In the end... this is no different then anything else in life or a game. You get what you pay for... and if you want it.. you pay for it.

 

The End

 

 

Huh? The SKV is a "premium" service now?

[KittyPrawn]

But then the reason Bioware aren't looking at quick travel straight to ship is because of this "perk".

 

Therefore it can't be a "perk" because it's blocking a serious travel system improvement.

 

And if it's not a "perk" then why is it on the SKV?

 

But, it is a perk. There isn't a serious travel system problem. Adding quick travel to your ship will remove 1 extra loading screen. Having the extra fleet passes would remove 4.

 

Is three your limit of what is acceptable in a travel system and what isn't?

[Blackavaar]

To everyone saying that the OP feels entitled and wants EZ mode or whatever.

 

The problem isn't the fact that BW said that Security Key Vendors sold Fleet Passes and that because of that they aren't in a hurry to fix the travel issues. The problem is that they said this as if everyone has access to and uses a Security Key, which is obviously not the case.

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about understanding that something that is limited to certain players using a certain product does not equal access to all. The travel issues should be on the main board, not on the back burner.

 

[KittyPrawn]

To everyone saying that the OP feels entitled and wants EZ mode or whatever.

 

The problem isn't the fact that BW said that Security Key Vendors sold Fleet Passes and that because of that they aren't in a hurry to fix the travel issues. The problem is that they said this as if everyone has access to and uses a Security Key, which is obviously not the case.

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about understanding that something that is limited to certain players using a certain product does not equal access to all. The travel issues should be on the main board, not on the back burner.

 

But, there still aren't game-breaking travel issues. Any changes are a matter of convenience, not a matter of need. There is equal access to the security key, some methods are just more straight forward than others.

[XOrionX]

Can you read? I CAN NOT buy one, not for 4$ not for 40$. They DO NOT SELL it to me.

 

And OFFICIAL Q&A thread states that they are not going to implemend an extra features, just because fleet pass from security vendor works perfectly fine.

 

I am not going to discuss how much this feature is needed here (but since they managed to answer this question - looks like it IS, not only for me).

 

I have plain facts here. What official person stated actually is NOT correct. And it also means that their customers service and in-game features (for some reasons one hardly can explain) depend on brand and model of cell-phone and\or on location where customer lives.

 

 

Wrong. We are not talking about extra utility that allows you to work with GTN and\or crew skills. We are talking about IN-GAME feature, isn't it obvious? You really can't tell the difference?

 

Can you read?

 

Androids, Iphones, and Key chain authenticators ARE NOT required to play this game.

 

Your logic is fail.

[Oneirophrenia]

Most MMORPGs (that aren't WoW) have a better, more user friendly travel system than SWTOR however.

 

I have played quite a few MMOs and in some of them (EQ, FFXI, DAOC, UO), at least when I played them ages ago, traveling ws a long process bordering on tedium. In another two (DDO, DCUO), it took far less effort but still needed some time. Then there are those (WoW, CoH) which are far too convenient. In my point of view, SWTOR would fit somewhere between the latter two categories.

 

I'm not saying that the TOR travel system is perfect. It goes without saying that certain aspects of it is in serious need of streamlining and tweaking, the pointless orbital stations being one such example. However it is not nearly as bad or time consuming as what some people are making it out to be. Exaggerations are far too common in this thread.

 

There is no "trade off" though, there's a superfluous extra layer of "security" to be able to do something that should be standard in SWTOR (and indeed according to Bioware may be standard if not for the Fleet Pass - unless they intended to limit quick travel to ship to Security Key holders only).

 

Account security is only one aspect of the trade-off and not the one I was referring to. Perhaps I should have been more clear but when I mentioned overly generous, I was speaking of the cost of the fleet pass itself. 1000 credits is far too cheap for a convenience option given how easily one can earn credits in this game. Frankly, the fleet pass should cost 5k or even 10k each to bring it more in line with our wealth accumulation level.

 

I see so your argument is basically "if I don't think it's needed, then it's not needed".

 

Fair enough, I (and many others) disagree!

 

Not quite, it is rather simple logic. The need for instant travel is a given in MMOs where spawn competition is a fact of life. After all, how fast you get to a target literally dictates your activity for the day, as well as whether you will gain the optimal opportunity to advance your character or relinquish that right to someone else. On the flip side of that coin, the need for instant travel options is not as big a deal for MMOs where almost every PVE/PVP advancement option is instanced since there is little spawn competition to begin with.

 

Now I will admit that a functional travel system is indeed a core part of any MMO but the convenience of that system is highly subjective and varies from person to person. With that said, this particular sub-option of instant travel is a strictly a matter of convenience, that is all.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Oneirophrenia

[Goretzu]

But, it is a perk. There isn't a serious travel system problem. Adding quick travel to your ship will remove 1 extra loading screen. Having the extra fleet passes would remove 4.

 

Is three your limit of what is acceptable in a travel system and what isn't?

 

The number of loading screens in SWTOR is an issue in and of itself.

 

 

But Fleet Pass blocking Travel System improvements when it's not something that everyone has access too, is another and quite significant problem.

[Goretzu]

I have played quite a few MMOs and in some of them (EQ, FFXI, DAOC, UO), at least when I played them ages ago, traveling ws a long process bordering on tedium. In another two (DDO, DCUO), it took far less effort but still needed some time. Then there are those (WoW, CoH) which are far too convenient. In my point of view, SWTOR would fit somewhere between the latter two categories.

 

I'm not saying that the TOR travel system is perfect. It goes without saying that certain aspects of it is in serious need of streamlining and tweaking, the pointless orbital stations being one such example. However it is not nearly as bad or time consuming as what some people are making it out to be. Exaggerations are far too common in this thread.

 

Except that SWTOR doesn't do what say EQ1 did well about slow travel (make an long journey feel like a long journey - a loading screen or 4 doesn't do that and I'm not sure why you'd think it would), and it still doesn't do what EQ1 did about fast travel (either in player based ports or the later travel nexus - amazingly there were less loading screens in EQ1's original travel nexus).

 

When you're looking at EQ1 in vanilla, SoK, SoV and PoP and thinking it's travel system is better than SWTOR, you know that SWTORs needs some serious improvement.

 

Account security is only one aspect of the trade-off and not the one I was referring to. Perhaps I should have been more clear but when I mentioned overly generous, I was speaking of the cost of the fleet pass itself. 1000 credits is far too cheap for a convenience option given how easily one can earn credits in this game. Frankly, the fleet pass should cost 5k or even 10k each to bring it more in line with our wealth accumulation level.

 

That's a different issue, most MMOs have such things with a minor cost, whether the should be more is a completely separate argument to whether the Fleet Pass should be only on the SKV or indeed should block other travel system improvements.

 

 

Not quite, it is rather simple logic. The need for instant travel is a given in MMOs where spawn competition is a fact of life. After all, how fast you get to a target literally dictates your activity for the day, as well as whether you will gain the optimal opportunity to advance your character or relinquish that right to someone else. On the flip side of that coin, the need for instant travel options is not as big a deal for MMOs where almost every PVE/PVP advancement option is instanced since there is little spawn competition to begin with.

 

There's no plus side in having to take a long, irritating, constantly at the keyboard and convoluted travel system just to help a guildie kill a mob or a ganker.

 

However doing that is a vital part of any MMO experience and there is quite downside.

 

Now I will admit that a functional travel system is indeed a core part of any MMO but the convenience of that system is highly subjective and varies from person to person. With that said, this particular sub-option of instant travel is a strictly a matter of convenience, that is all.

 

Functional and convenience go back to what I said before, they are utterly subjective.

 

However bad game design is always just bad game design and in SWTOR case this applies squarely to the current travel system, options to by-pass or mitigate the worse bits need to be in and need NOT to be just available to those with SKY access.

[lineschmidt]

To everyone saying that the OP feels entitled and wants EZ mode or whatever.

 

The problem isn't the fact that BW said that Security Key Vendors sold Fleet Passes and that because of that they aren't in a hurry to fix the travel issues. The problem is that they said this as if everyone has access to and uses a Security Key, which is obviously not the case.

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about understanding that something that is limited to certain players using a certain product does not equal access to all. The travel issues should be on the main board, not on the back burner.

 

No, they said this because there is no major issue with travelling. It takes like 3 minutes to travel from anywhere to fleet. That's why it's self entitlement to post that the game requires an android or iphone

[Goretzu]

No, they said this because there is no major issue with travelling. It takes like 3 minutes to travel from anywhere to fleet. That's why it's self entitlement to post that the game requires an android or iphone

 

Well actually they said that the Fleet Pass negates a need for a specific improvement to the travel system.

 

Yet not everyone has access to that.

 

Far from self-entitlement this is a thread against discrimination!

Edited February 28, 2012 by Goretzu

[cbowsin]

The only time I even use the fleet pass is either when my guild decides to finally start the raid and I am in BFE on some planet or when I get trapped in an area where /stuck is pointless and quick travel is on cool down. Otherwise, it is very quick to get back to the station from just about anywhere. I would say the fleet pass is not a needed in game feature.

[Oneirophrenia]

Except that SWTOR doesn't do what say EQ1 did well about slow travel (make an long journey feel like a long journey - a loading screen or 4 doesn't do that and I'm not sure why you'd think it would), and it still doesn't do what EQ1 did about fast travel (either in player based ports or the later travel nexus - amazingly there were less loading screens in EQ1's original travel nexus).

 

When you're looking at EQ1 in vanilla, SoK, SoV and PoP and thinking it's travel system is better than SWTOR, you know that SWTORs needs some serious improvement.

 

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here. The travel system between EQ and TOR is nowhere near comparable. I don't even know where you got the 4 loading screens figure from. To get from planet to planet, planet to fleet or fleet to planet, it involves exactly 2 loading screens. Planet to orbital station doesn't count because it is a same zone transition.

 

In contrast, do you remember the old world to Kunark trip in EQ? Let's say if you were in NFP (the hub of the day like the fleet stations of TOR) and you wanted to get to Old Seb/Karnok/Chardok for some exp grouping, that trip would easily take you an hour if you couldn't find a port. What about trying to go from old world/Kunark to TOV for a guild raid. Even with a guildie port that trip still takes half an hour or more. Let's not even discuss the Oasis to Dreadlands raft ride where you can actually fall off the boat at the zone transition. With all of that in mind, I find it hard to believe that you actually think SWTOR travel system is worse than that.

 

That's a different issue, most MMOs have such things with a minor cost, whether the should be more is a completely separate argument to whether the Fleet Pass should be only on the SKV or indeed should block other travel system improvements.

 

No it isn't a different issue. If there was a substantial monetary cost attached to the SKV fleet pass then you can be sure that there will be heck of a lot less people griping about not having access to it. The concept of worth/value is still prevalent in the fictional MMO world. With the cost the way it is now, BW may as well just make it free.

 

There's no plus side in having to take a long, irritating, constantly at the keyboard and convoluted travel system just to help a guildie kill a mob or a ganker.

 

Yet you seem to praise the EQ travel system which is famous for its length and tedium. Honestly, you can't even use "long" as a proper description for traveling in TOR, not if you want to maintain some credibility in this discussion. If you are on the Imperial side, use a stopwatch and time yourself getting from fleet station (pick any spot on it) to the surface of Tatooine/Alderaan/Correllia (3 of the most loading time intensive zones). I can just about guarentee you that even with a slower rig, your overall travel time will not exceed 3-4 minutes. If you wish, you can even tack on another 2-3 minutes to get to your final destination on the planet but my point still stands. A total of 5-7 minutes to get from origin to destination is not "long" by any MMO standard.

 

If travel (intra-planetary or inter-planetary) is truly as long as you seem to think, me being able to finish all of my Ilum and Belsavis daily's in under 2 hours would qualify as a minor miracle. Yet 500+ daily comms later, I can tell you 2 hours or less is a regular occurrence. This is also taken into consideration that I have not used the SKV fleet pass even once despite the fact that I have had access to it since shortly after public release.

 

Functional and convenience go back to what I said before, they are utterly subjective.

 

Function is not subjective. Function, when used in the context of a tool, is meant to define the proper usage of that particular tool. For example, the function of a scissor is to cut something. The function of a pen is to write. In MMOs, the function of travel system is to get you from point A to point B. That is not subjective.

 

This brings us to convenience which *is* subjective. Now the point that I am making here is that, people seriously need to reconsider their position if they actually think that traveling in TOR takes too long and involves too much hassle without the SKV fleet pass. The facts (amount of time involved) would suggest otherwise.

[Goretzu]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here. The travel system between EQ and TOR is nowhere near comparable. I don't even know where you got the 4 loading screens figure from. To get from planet to planet, planet to fleet or fleet to planet, it involves exactly 2 loading screens. Planet to orbital station doesn't count because it is a same zone transition.

 

In contrast, do you remember the old world to Kunark trip in EQ? Let's say if you were in NFP (the hub of the day like the fleet stations of TOR) and you wanted to get to Old Seb/Karnok/Chardok for some exp grouping, that trip would easily take you an hour if you couldn't find a port. What about trying to go from old world/Kunark to TOV for a guild raid. Even with a guildie port that trip still takes half an hour or more. Let's not even discuss the Oasis to Dreadlands raft ride where you can actually fall off the boat at the zone transition. With all of that in mind, I find it hard to believe that you actually think SWTOR travel system is worse than that.

 

Indeed EQ1 were better in most respects.

 

Which is what is puzzleing about SWTORs.

 

SWTOR fails on the epic journey and it fails on the quick journey too.

 

 

 

No it isn't a different issue. If there was a substantial monetary cost attached to the SKV fleet pass then you can be sure that there will be heck of a lot less people griping about not having access to it. The concept of worth/value is still prevalent in the fictional MMO world. With the cost the way it is now, BW may as well just make it free.

 

Yes if it was 1,000,000 credits per use then I guess we'd all have ship quick travel by now.

 

But it's not and we don't.

 

 

 

Yet you seem to praise the EQ travel system which is famous for its length and tedium. Honestly, you can't even use "long" as a proper description for traveling in TOR, not if you want to maintain some credibility in this discussion. If you are on the Imperial side, use a stopwatch and time yourself getting from fleet station (pick any spot on it) to the surface of Tatooine/Alderaan/Correllia (3 of the most loading time intensive zones). I can just about guarentee you that even with a slower rig, your overall travel time will not exceed 3-4 minutes. If you wish, you can even tack on another 2-3 minutes to get to your final destination on the planet but my point still stands. A total of 5-7 minutes to get from origin to destination is not "long" by any MMO standard.

 

If travel (intra-planetary or inter-planetary) is truly as long as you seem to think, me being able to finish all of my Ilum and Belsavis daily's in under 2 hours would qualify as a minor miracle. Yet 500+ daily comms later, I can tell you 2 hours or less is a regular occurrence. This is also taken into consideration that I have not used the SKV fleet pass even once despite the fact that I have had access to it since shortly after public release.

 

But vannilla EQ1 was a different kettle of fish in many ways. You didn't gank without reason or serious thought, because you'd end up kill listed, and in old MMOs like EQ that actually ment something. Also in a game with exp loss on PvP death and potential body lost (or full loot on the full loot servers) it was a completely different thing.

 

For a start guildies likely wouldn't have been soloing in the first place.

 

 

 

 

However SWTOR is a different type of game, there's none of the persistance EQ1 had, but equally the travel system is largely inferior to what EQ1 had by PoP in the fast travel sense and is inferior to vannilla EQ1 in the player port/summon sense.

 

 

Function is not subjective. Function, when used in the context of a tool, is meant to define the proper usage of that particular tool. For example, the function of a scissor is to cut something. The function of a pen is to write. In MMOs, the function of travel system is to get you from point A to point B. That is not subjective.

 

Of course function is subjective, a train that goes 1 mph is perfectly functional, it is not however viable for a 200 mile commuter service.

 

This brings us to convenience which *is* subjective. Now the point that I am making here is that, people seriously need to reconsider their position if they actually think that traveling in TOR takes too long and involves too much hassle without the SKV fleet pass. The facts (amount of time involved) would suggest otherwise.

 

Convience is also subjective.

 

However what isn't subjective is Bioware saying the are NOT putting in fast travel to ship BECAUSE Fleet Pass exists in the game (even though not everyone has access to it).

[Aepervius]

nope its not required to have one. You can also buy the $4 keygenerator. To the people who are going to freak out about that the generator is to protect your account from YOURSELF. Also, it's $4 so dont freak out like a child.

 

Not open to EU market As far as i can remember. ETA might have changed since I tried to buy it at start of january

Edited February 29, 2012 by Aepervius

[Melkathi]

nope its not required to have one. You can also buy the $4 keygenerator. To the people who are going to freak out about that the generator is to protect your account from YOURSELF. Also, it's $4 so dont freak out like a child.

 

It's more than four times the price for european customers. Fun isn't it?

At current exchange rate the keygen would cost me $17.5.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Melkathi