SWTOR vs SWG

[Blistrich]

SWG had some nice ideas, but the game was badly put together. Combat was awful and they never seemed to fix any bugs (and there were lots).

This is worth highlighting. For all of SWG's grand and novel inclusions (housing, vending, class mixing, and so on), it was one of the most jagged, unpolished titles ever released. I used to fall through the world. Literally. Fall through the world. And on some occasions, I kept falling until either I died randomly or a GM could pull me out of the void.

 

TOR isn't SWG, nor is it as grand in other respects as some of us had hoped, but after 16 years of online gaming (Christ I'm old), I have stopped hoping and praying that new games will be a certain way (whatever way I have built them up to be in my mind) and have instead started accepting them for what they are.

 

TOR is fun. I like my character. I like the companions. I like the uncomplicated environments, the easy-going combat, and the straight-forward WoWness of it all. It feels familiar, and at the same time, it goes deeper into the "story" than any previous mmos I can recall, and that's a big +1 right there.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Blistrich

[Caspian_Rho]

I miss the community of SWG... everyone states ohhh but SWG was a grind, perhaps it was, and not very enjoyable at times. But it was ALWAYS a means to an end and that end being just to get your toon to max level. Then you could compete in Invasions, or openworld PVP or run instances for jewlery. Or do any number of things with your friends... gun boat runs space open pvp. Corvette runs...

 

TOR story is trite cliche clap-trap. Some of the biggest borefest nonesense I've ever endured. Where TOR differs is... THAT'S ALL THERE IS. Not even that there isn't enough content, Warzones are multiplayer maps, no less no more... it's a single player game mechanic ala COD/GOW/HALO and so on. The quest lines are particularly single player orientated for the most part, apart from the odd boss. Heroics again are more akin to a co-op mission mode and group size to boot.

 

Where's all the frapping MMO??? Where's all the open world PVP stuff. The only thing this has over SWG is graphics and that's barely, sound is worse and used badly/wrongly out of context. Armour design stinks to austin and back. The layout of the worlds are poooooooooor and boriing cut and paste linear tripe. SWG classes were MUCH better and better balanced generally, none of this mirror *cough* lunacy. Where's all the species?... ummm Cyborg?? ummm have you seen Star Trek are you a Trekkie BW? Where's all the character customisation?? I'd take SWG anyday over this crud, graphics update of course.

 

When they set TOR 3k years before Star Wars they literally meant the mentality that they designed (loosely used) and produced the game with. Barbaric rubbish masquerading as an MMO.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caspian_Rho

[Blistrich]

When they set TOR 3k years before Star Wars they literally meant the mentality that they designed (loosely used) and produced the game with. Barbaric rubbish masquerading as an MMO.

Seems a bit harsh to me, but each to their own I guess.

 

I think people expect too much out of mmos. They expect the game to be everything they want it to be instead of what it is, and disappointment ensues. Honestly, if you don't like it, there are far superior alternatives... like... uh... LOTRO? No, that's F2P and practically dead. Cona... no, that game ended at level 20 and I think there are about 18 people still playing it. How about Aion? Yes, it's a Korean grindfest with wings, but, you know how it is with Asian offerings. Mortal maybe? Yeah, if you enjoy having no goals and getting crushed by far stronger people all day every way. Darkfall perhaps? Well, then you'd have to deal with 90s graphics. But there's always EVE Online, right? A fantastic, open-ended, really cool PvP title... that CCP has screwed into the ground over the past year harder than anyone could have predicted. Other than that there's always Warcraft, which is... SWTOR set in Azeroth.

 

I think you see where I'm going with this.

 

As always, bear in mind that with SWTOR, you are playing a vanilla game. I always recommend enjoying the parts you like and seeing where the game goes. There's simply no point pretending that SWTOR is a bad game in a sea of fantastic games. It's just another ship with holes floating in a turbulent sea.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Blistrich

[Caspian_Rho]

Seems a bit harsh to me, but each to their own I guess.

 

I think people expect too much out of mmos. They expect the game to be everything they want it to be instead of what it is, and disappointment ensues. Honestly, if you don't like it, there are far superior alternatives... like... uh... LOTRO? No, that's F2P and practically dead. Cona... no, that game ended at level 20 and I think there are about 18 people still playing it. How about Aion? Yes, it's a Korean grindfest with wings, but, you know how it is with Asian offerings. Mortal maybe? Yeah, if you enjoy having no goals and getting crushed by far stronger people all day every way. Darkfall perhaps? Well, then you'd have to deal with 90s graphics. But there's always EVE Online, right? A fantastic, open-ended, really cool PvP title... that CCP has screwed into the ground over the past year harder than anyone could have predicted. Other than that there's always Warcraft, which is... SWTOR set in Azeroth.

 

I think you see where I'm going with this.

 

As always, bear in mind that with SWTOR, you are playing a vanilla game. I always recommend enjoying the parts you like and seeing where the game goes. There's simply no point pretending that SWTOR is a bad game in a sea of fantastic games. It's just another ship with holes floating in a turbulent sea.

 

Maybe you're right, maybe I did expect too much... But what I didn't expect is less than what I've seen in any other MMO i've played over the last 10 years. That's where I find other peoples frustrations arising from.

 

I don't think the quoted comment was unfair. Vanilla this may be but the current design choices are far from logical. There is a definite smack of bad design and bad designers stay bad and hope in the off chance they might get something right. And so much so the game is sitting in a cul de sac, it really has nowhere to progress to. It's firmly laid out it's stall. For BW to take the game in a direction most on this thread would like it'll take years levelling the ground to expand and have something that's expandable.

 

TOR is a very poor MMO in a sea of better MMOs regardless of if they're fantastic or not. BW will simply pull through on the IP alone, that is the only thing that will keep them afloat.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caspian_Rho

[Guildrum]

Maybe you're right, maybe I did expect too much... But what I didn't expect is less than what I've seen in any other MMO i've played over the last 10 years. That's where I find other peoples frustrations arising from.

 

I don't think the quoted comment was unfair. Vanilla this may be but the current design choices are far from logical. There is a definite smack of bad design and bad designers stay bad and hope in the off chance they might get something right. And so much so the game is sitting in a cul de sac, it really has nowhere to progress to. It's firmly laid out it's stall. For BW to take the game in a direction most on this thread would like it'll take years levelling the ground to expand and have something that's expandable.

 

TOR is a very poor MMO in a sea of better MMOs regardless of if they're fantastic or not. BW will simply pull through on the IP alone, that is the only thing that will keep them afloat.

 

How? You keep saying that other MMOs are better, yet you do not mention any better MMOs that are better than TOR.

[Blistrich]

Vanilla this may be but the current design choices are far from logical. There is a definite smack of bad design and bad designers stay bad and hope in the off chance they might get something right.

This I can't disagree with. Good point. If the game is going to survive and (somehow) thrive, some fundamental design changes will have to be made. It really is a fairly unpolished game, but the way I see it, I like Star Wars and I liked Warcraft (as a casual mmo), so I haven't seen anything yet that would make me quit altogether.

 

My big test is always the first expansion. If that's a flop, I'm back on the highway.

 

Secret World maybe? Who knows.

[Guildrum]

This I can't disagree with. Good point. If the game is going to survive and (somehow) thrive, some fundamental design changes will have to be made. It really is a fairly unpolished game, but the way I see it, I like Star Wars and I liked Warcraft (as a casual mmo), so I haven't seen anything yet that would make me quit altogether.

 

My big test is always the first expansion. If that's a flop, I'm back on the highway.

 

Secret World maybe? Who knows.

 

I do agree to a small extent. The only real fundamental issue I see with the game that people could have issues with, is crafting. Now, I hated crafting in previous games, WoW especially, because it was just an extra grind. The part I hated, was that it was the only way to get real money quickly in other games, and unless you are able to keep your crafting up-to-date as you level, you end up going back a couple dozen levels to get materials, then craft...

 

This game, it allows a quick catch-up, but the whole stupid-simple approach, I could easily see would tick off a lot of players, especially crafters.

[smibbo]

This.

 

Gladly I have my guild from SWG reformed here so it doesnt feel so lonely, tho not many stayed after the 1st month of SWTOR launch.

 

What I miss in this game:

 

1. character customization - very poor here

 

2. complexity of crafting - its just a joke in swtor

 

2. beastmastery - incl making the beast from the DNA harvesting to mutation attempts (tbh that was more fun than trying to get an egg of an orobird with a spawntime of 8 hrs always camped with people waiting for the spawn and with not a clue how to incubate it )

 

3. guildcities/playerhouses - someone said it was full of ghost cities, well not the last 1-2 years after they allowed us to remove abandoned houses and people started to lose citizenship if they dont login 3 months. Well it was hard for the mayors to keep the tier of the city but at least noone can say there were ghost cities.

 

4. entertainers - without them the cantinas seem dead.

 

I play SWTOR and I like some aspects of it, like companion system, graphics and ofc the story, but the game lacks the soul of the Galaxies thats for sure.

 

THIS THIS THIS

 

I don't see why they can't put the two together: the things we liked in SWG are outside of main gameplay here. They wouldn't have to change combat or classes at all.

[jarjarloves]

I miss the community of SWG... everyone states ohhh but SWG was a grind, perhaps it was, and not very enjoyable at times. But it was ALWAYS a means to an end and that end being just to get your toon to max level. Then you could compete in Invasions, or openworld PVP or run instances for jewlery. Or do any number of things with your friends... gun boat runs space open pvp. Corvette runs...

 

TOR story is trite cliche clap-trap. Some of the biggest borefest nonesense I've ever endured. Where TOR differs is... THAT'S ALL THERE IS. Not even that there isn't enough content, Warzones are multiplayer maps, no less no more... it's a single player game mechanic ala COD/GOW/HALO and so on. The quest lines are particularly single player orientated for the most part, apart from the odd boss. Heroics again are more akin to a co-op mission mode and group size to boot.

 

Where's all the frapping MMO??? Where's all the open world PVP stuff. The only thing this has over SWG is graphics and that's barely, sound is worse and used badly/wrongly out of context. Armour design stinks to austin and back. The layout of the worlds are poooooooooor and boriing cut and paste linear tripe. SWG classes were MUCH better and better balanced generally, none of this mirror *cough* lunacy. Where's all the species?... ummm Cyborg?? ummm have you seen Star Trek are you a Trekkie BW? Where's all the character customisation?? I'd take SWG anyday over this crud, graphics update of course.

 

When they set TOR 3k years before Star Wars they literally meant the mentality that they designed (loosely used) and produced the game with. Barbaric rubbish masquerading as an MMO.

 

Everyone says the community is the best thing to come out of SWG and I agree it was a nice community however games DO NOT MAKE COMMUNITIES. It's impossible to do that.

 

The community is entirely up to the playerbase. Now the developer can give some tools to help with this but those are really just superficial.

 

 

Perfect example of this. I hear time and time again that there is no open world PVP in SWTOR and people want open world PVP like back in Vanilla WoW where people would raid Tarren Mill and South Shore.

 

Well the thing is that was something that happened completely on accident and it was done entirely by the community. It was players who decided to raid there and it was players that decided to fight back. There was no PVP system, no honors system or gear awarded. It was 100% community based. In fact Blizz even tried to discourge it because it would lag out the servers so they added really high elite mobs that would mulitpy and kill people instatnly.

 

Now it could be part of this community or this mind set has now died off in MMOs as people seem to only do things they are rewarded. But that isn't Biowares fault that is the fault of the MMO community as a whole.

 

 

If you want a community like SWG had then it starts with you actually putting in A LOT of effort to build that community.

[Guildrum]

Perfect example of this. I hear time and time again that there is no open world PVP in SWTOR and people want open world PVP like back in Vanilla WoW where people would raid Tarren Mill and South Shore.

 

Well the thing is that was something that happened completely on accident and it was done entirely by the community. It was players who decided to raid there and it was players that decided to fight back. There was no PVP system, no honors system or gear awarded. It was 100% community based. In fact Blizz even tried to discourge it because it would lag out the servers so they added really high elite mobs that would mulitpy and kill people instatnly.

 

Perfect point. Bioware could take the Faction Fleets, make them accessible to the opposing faction, put them right next to each other, make the NPCs inside level 1... But they cannot make World PvP happen. They cannot make people raid the Fleets short of giving disadvantages to those who do not.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Guildrum

[kirorx]

Perfect point. Bioware could take the Faction Fleets, make them accessible to the opposing faction, put them right next to each other, make the NPCs inside level 1... But they cannot make World PvP happen. They cannot make people raid the Fleets short of giving disadvantages to those who do not.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

 

I dont think TOR will ever really have open world pvp. This is due to the design of the game and not the community. The planets are very confined and very path driven.

 

It appears IMO that planets are nothing more than leveling areas.

 

Now in SWG: You had planetary control, if your faction owned the planet then the factional presence would change. In TOR nothing can change because of the storylines.

 

I dont hate TOR, I am having fun playing it for what it is. It is a fun storydriven game. As far a pvp goes, IMO its like space...a mini-game.

[Darth_Eminok]

I dont think TOR will ever really have open world pvp. This is due to the design of the game and not the community. The planets are very confined and very path driven.

 

It appears IMO that planets are nothing more than leveling areas.

 

Now in SWG: You had planetary control, if your faction owned the planet then the factional presence would change. In TOR nothing can change because of the storylines.

 

I dont hate TOR, I am having fun playing it for what it is. It is a fun storydriven game. As far a pvp goes, IMO its like space...a mini-game.

 

Yes SWG was very fun and space was not (unlike here) a minigame.

[Blistrich]

Yes SWG was very fun and space was not (unlike here) a minigame.

Which SWG are we taking about here?

 

The pre-screwup SWG where there was limitless potential but combat didn't work, or the post-screwup SWG where they took away everything we had worked years for and replaced it with a effing level 1 Jedi?

Edited April 10, 2012 by Blistrich

[jarjarloves]

I dont think TOR will ever really have open world pvp. This is due to the design of the game and not the community. The planets are very confined and very path driven.

 

It appears IMO that planets are nothing more than leveling areas.

 

Now in SWG: You had planetary control, if your faction owned the planet then the factional presence would change. In TOR nothing can change because of the storylines.

 

I dont hate TOR, I am having fun playing it for what it is. It is a fun storydriven game. As far a pvp goes, IMO its like space...a mini-game.

 

it already has open world PVP.

 

When I was on Tatooinie, Alderan and Hoth I saw a lot of open world pvp. Mind you like I said it was up to the communty. I play on a PVP server and what me and my guild did as we leveled was group up and harrass the republic players until they grouped up and fought back.

 

It is always and will always be up to the communtiy not the game to come up with open world pvp. Giving plaent control doesn't do a thing to promote pvp not a damn thing.

 

 

Now there isn't any end game PVP but that is because Ilum is currently broken (they did say they are working on it) but it could exist but again it would be up to the community to really get it going. Bioware can give you the tools but if people don't put the effort into making it happen it won't happen.

[Okishib]

SWTOR is great for what it is - but what it is isn't great.

 

SWG wasn't amazing at what it was - but what it was was amazing.

[Deamandred]

SWTOR is great for what it is - but what it is isn't great.

 

SWG wasn't amazing at what it was - but what it was was amazing.

 

Exactly right.

 

SWG had its flaws in every Era PreCU - NGE, But overall it was a far more enjoyable game.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Exactly right.

 

SWG had its flaws in every Era PreCU - NGE, But overall it was a far more enjoyable game.

Speak for yourself.

[myolinyr]

Speak for yourself.

 

yeah, i hated that ugly, laggy, snore fest as well.

[Khyler]

SWG2 is never coming out, forget about that game. It wasn't good and that's why it isn't alive anymore.

 

Just because you personally enjoy a style of game, doesn't mean the vast majority of mmo players do.

 

You just have to accept that a sandbox MMO doesn't work, especially when the vast majority of players started with World of Warcraft.

 

Actually, Pre-CU was very good and popular. Even after the CU, it wasn't too bad. It was the NGE change that killed the game.

 

I would definitely play any game that gave me the freedom that the original SWG had for character development and play.

[jarjarloves]

Actually, Pre-CU was very good and popular. Even after the CU, it wasn't too bad. It was the NGE change that killed the game.

 

I would definitely play any game that gave me the freedom that the original SWG had for character development and play.

 

no it wasn't even that popular. I think it maxed out around 700k subs which is respectable but was bleeding subs at more then 10k lost per month. By the time the CU came out they had less then 300k subs.

 

There was a really good article about it by one of the original SWG programers but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[vincent-]

I completely agree, I still prefer SWG over SWTOR however I am just playing this now because SWG is gone, SWGEMU just doesn't work for me I played from 2003 to 2011 on swg and I know that I will get alot of crud for this but I actually prefered the NGE.

 

Same here bud I would rather be playing swg I had a nice setup in my house that was always a work of progress and when the devs updated the control of placement it was more or less a whole new level of thinking.

 

Hell I still love the heroic instances like tuskin king were you have to save a whole town that took effort.

[ekwalizer]

I completely agree, I still prefer SWG over SWTOR however I am just playing this now because SWG is gone, SWGEMU just doesn't work for me I played from 2003 to 2011 on swg and I know that I will get alot of crud for this but I actually prefered the NGE.

 

Same. The final to years of SWG were far and away higher quality and more fun than the first tow years. Don't get me wrong, I loved the original profession diversity ... but from a programmers perspective that had to be impossible to balance. Illustrated by all the rotating FotMs.

[ekwalizer]

Too lazy to dig out the original post for this to properly quote it:

////////////////////////////////////

Originally Posted by KhealThar

SWG2 is never coming out, forget about that game. It wasn't good and that's why it isn't alive anymore.

 

Just because you personally enjoy a style of game, doesn't mean the vast majority of mmo players do.

 

You just have to accept that a sandbox MMO doesn't work, especially when the vast majority of players started with World of Warcraft.

/////////////////////////////////////

 

First of all, when SWG came out, all MMOs were a niche market. It wasn't until WoW boomed in late 2004 that MMos entered the "mainstream".

 

As to the quality of SWG, I can't think of very many other games that legged it out for over 8 years. I'd call that a success. In point of fact, if not for the exclusivity clause in EA contracts, I'd wager SWG would be running today - because they are different genres of MMOs.

 

I'll grant you that many players do not like sandboxes, but many do. Not everyone in the world of gaming wants to have their hand held and be escorted down a linear path.

 

The problem with MMO developers and producers is that they use WoW as a measuring stick. WoW is an anomaly. WoW certainly didn't do anything new and inventive, they stole everything from EQ.

Edited April 12, 2012 by ekwalizer

[Nerifes]

I miss SWG. A lot.

 

This game is nothing compared to SWG. While both games have their pros and cons, this game has a long list of cons compared to SWG.

[vincent-]

Funny how people always remember the good times with the passing of time even though at the time they were crap. It still remains the most berated mmo in gaming history and should have been laid to rest long before soe finally saw light. At the end I think almost everyone left had second accounts and therefore population must have been the lowest of any mmo of that era.

 

I'm so glad it's gone

 

Wow I really had to laugh at this. SOE would have slapped free to play and gone on making money.

 

Who do you really think killed galaxies for good? LA had the contract they didn't want to renew it.

 

Name any real good games that came out of LA that was in a new hope time line? LA killed a game that was still making money, was it a lot? Nope but free to play was an option for a game that had 8 YEARS don't kid yourself into thinking the min EA screws this up as always that LA won't pull the plug when another chance comes.

 

Of all the companies I don't trust it's EA/Activision/Lucas Arts this game lacks anything special just a accessibility to a LARGER audience.

Edited April 12, 2012 by vincent-