1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[mortemm]

There are a few basic elements which are common to all games.

The first of these elements is players with conflicting objectives.

The other player(s) may be simulated by a program running on a computer.

For a game condition to exist, there must be conflict and the possibility of winning or losing, or at least of something of value being at stake.

Secondly, a game must possess rules, delineating the powers and limitations of players, though the rules may not be completely known to the players.

Other games are purely abstract. Thus, Fifty-two Pickup is not a game, but a practical joke, as it is not interesting once the trick is known.

Finally, a game must be playable. It must have manageable mechanics of play.

It must have unambiguous rules and no loopholes which permit players to avoid the limitations intended by the rules. And it must be nontrivial strategically, permitting the development of more subtle and effective lines of play as players become familiar with the game.

 

something of value

Excess demand can raise the exchange-values of products traded, and excess supply can lower them

Simply put, if product A takes 100 hours of human work to produce in total, and product B takes 5 hours to produce, the normal trading-ratio of A and B will gravitate to a rate of around 1:20 (one of A is worth 20 of B),

 

product C is necessary prior to product A go on Sale.

[Kindara]

There's still plenty of rare items in the game so its not dead. Not all the epic level mounts have been put on vendors. Infact the drop one from false emperor. You can't buy it.

[Misim]

This patch and 1.2 is a huge nerf for old content and players who was earning their BM and other stuff.

This is stupid. I dont like 1.2 patch. How I see now legacy just a joke. Nothing really good for PvP. No open world PvP at all now.

I think im canceling.

[Toweleeeie]

This patch and 1.2 is a huge nerf for old content and players who was earning their BM and other stuff.

This is stupid. I dont like 1.2 patch. How I see now legacy just a joke. Nothing really good for PvP. No open world PvP at all now.

I think im canceling.

 

No open world pvp is better then Ilum pvp IMO

[Koalachan]

There's still plenty of rare items in the game so its not dead. Not all the epic level mounts have been put on vendors. Infact the drop one from false emperor. You can't buy it.

 

Even the ones that HAVE been put on vendors, sure they're cheaper, but they're going away. This means they are even more limited than before, because before some just needed time and they would be able to eventually get it, no matter how much they played. No people will only have a month or so to buy them, and then they are gone for good except from other players selling them.

[DarthKhaos]

People are over reacting. New shinies to be gotten from sacrificing a goat on the new moon while standing on your head and controlling the game with your feet will always be added.

 

They'll get over it.

[Panzakat]

Crystals lose their dark or light side requirement.. Which is THE most iconic thing but relics retain them?

 

/ponder

 

Hmm shoe doesn't seem to fit quite right. Should have kept the requirements to be honest.

Without the Ls or Ds req the whole sense of good verse not so good depending on your point of view becomes a blur of rainbows.

 

They stated the armor style was so people could identify classes combinations.

 

Honestly I looked at the the colour and number of light bats first.

 

Should have made the recipes available not just the crystals.

 

Why bother paying an artificer for a rare color stat combination when I can just buy the stats I need and not even dent my cash flow.

[damolawler]

Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come.

 

Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something.

 

See what we get:

- Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor.

- Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor (not true - ops drop elite variant)

- PvP and daily speeders for 1M+ from vendor (not true - see the edit below)

- Social speeder for credits with no social rank requirement (added since edit below)

- VIP speeder from vendor

- all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved.

 

 

What the heck?!

 

My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it.

Now everyone will get it for 25k

 

I took part in Ops god-knows how many times and still don't have cyan color crystal, and each time I see player with PvE saber using it I see someone who achieved something I thrive for (ps. Screw the rakata black-core saber, it's a joke) - now you plan to give it away for some spare cash I earn by selling one high-grade item on GTN.

 

I won't even say anything about introducing more black-core sabers, especially for lvl50 players which is A HUGE IMMERSION BREAKER. Now all the ppl who care nothing about lore will run with this joke in Star Wars looking like a training saber being absolutely sure it makes them "l33t" and "special" cause they preordered (ps. it's not about being jelaous - I got preorder, I got rakata saber, it doesn't change anything) or bought stuff for 25k at vendor

 

Ps. Before someone pop-up telling that it won't hit the live servers - give me a quote. Otherwise it's just random opinion.

 

REMARKS:

- It's not about "feeling special" - it's about having an objective in game. And keeping things people worked for worthwhile. And having the point in keeping subscription instead of just getting all the stuff from vendor in moment one hits lvl50.

- Patch 1.1.5 won't make your crafting useful. 1.2 will but we aren't talking about that patch. Also: The artificers get screwed most of all by 1.1.5 cause we won't need you anymore after 1.2 - all the crystals majority of people thrive for will be handled to us from vendors already.

- I'm a casual player, not "hardcore raider" as majority of people falsely assume here. And as casual I ask for keeping achievement items as an achievements instead of give-away stuff

 

(Edit 27.02.2012)

Here are actual changes, I posted later on, but would be good to have it here too I think:

Speeders:

Korrealis Commander - till now VIP vendor for 1.5 M - after patch: speeder vendor for 1M

Korrealis Baron - till now Social rank requirement + 1.5 M for speeder itself - after patch: speeder vendor, no requirements, 2M

 

Crystals:

Magenta crystal schematics - dropping from world bosses - 250 000 CR in crystal vendor

Cyan crystals - obtained only through PvE lvl56 gear (and as build-in PvP Champion sabers) - 125k from crystal vendor

Purple crystals - obtained only through PvE lvl56 gear (and as build-in PvP Champion sabers) - 250k from crystal vendor

+41 Expertise crystals - expertise gear obtained only through PvP bags - 125k from crystal vendor

 

There are also many unnamed crystals, so hard to tell what exact color they have - prices range from 125k to 1M. I assumed one of them in magenta, although cannot be 100% sure as 125k is bit beyond my reach on test server which resets after every patch, sorry.

 

Finally there are new items at vendor - like White crystals - but these don't worry me (maybe besides a fact that it's the laziest thing BioWare could do - instead of adding adventures to obtain crystals, they just vendored them, lol)

 

Thanks Akirator for pointing out that speeder sold by vendor isn't actually the exact one that drops from Ops.

 

ps. It looks like I've been bit off with prices during the discussion - for that I'm sorry, although keep in mind that these still are only credits, something even I have a lot of, while hardcore players most likely have way above 10M allowing them to buy every single item I listed and still having quite a lot of money remaining.

 

 

We live in an age of entitlement.

 

An age where ignorant chavs think they are entitled to a good life and all the designer trainers and flat-screen TV's they want without ever having to do something as demeaning as a job. If they don't get it they riot.

 

An age where government "workers" think they are entitled to a better pension than everyone else, then demand they everyone else pay for it with ever higher taxes.

 

An age where claiming some kind victimhood disqualifies you from responsibility for your actions.

 

And an age where every spoilt teenager and immature adult feels entitled to have force-lightning even though he rolled a bounty-hunter, and feels entitled to have a blue lightsaber crystal even though he rolled a sith. This is all just a symptom of the times we live in.

Edited March 7, 2012 by damolawler

[Kissakias]

I don't think you lose anything, you've still achieved something, still got the reward for it. It's been said before, but I'll say it again, it's temporary. Personally, I think it's a good idea, everyone wins.

Does it negate actually doing any raids, or pvp, etc? I don't believe it does. People don't play games just to get unique rewards, it's about fun. Isn't it? Half the items I got at the end of each mission doing story were meaningless, junk. Does that mean there is no point in playing? Nope, I had fun. Which, to me at least, is the reason we all play.

 

for me achieving something is fun, completing a collection is fun

since i cant complete a collection i'm out, we are minor but we are exist you know and have the right to express our complains and fears

[Shinybum]

for me achieving something is fun, completing a collection is fun

since i cant complete a collection i'm out, we are minor but we are exist you know and have the right to express our complains and fears

 

I get this, I really do - there's a section of my cargo bay that holds a collection of lightsabers I'll never use. Most of them are from Flashpoints, but sometimes I'll see a drop or quest reward of a pattern I don't already have and I'll nab it just for the sake of adding it to the collection rather than selling it on. I'm never going to use any of them because the 'saber I'm carrying has an augment slot and, bluntly, the stat boost helps me kill things.

 

Besides, extracting all the mods to put in another hilt would cost a freakin' fortune.

 

I do, however, think quitting the game over not being able to have every single example of a particular thing is a bit of an overreaction. Your choice, but not everyone is going to think it's a reasonable one.

[Kissakias]

I get this, I really do - there's a section of my cargo bay that holds a collection of lightsabers I'll never use. Most of them are from Flashpoints, but sometimes I'll see a drop or quest reward of a pattern I don't already have and I'll nab it just for the sake of adding it to the collection rather than selling it on. I'm never going to use any of them because the 'saber I'm carrying has an augment slot and, bluntly, the stat boost helps me kill things.

 

Besides, extracting all the mods to put in another hilt would cost a freakin' fortune.

 

I do, however, think quitting the game over not being able to have every single example of a particular thing is a bit of an overreaction. Your choice, but not everyone is going to think it's a reasonable one.

 

personally i quited cuz of speeders sovereign and prince, i cant get them in such a sort time (i dont know from where i can get that prince the BW say)

and is unfair for pvers that spend all their game time to reach social 10 while the pvpers dont need them anymore (sovereign is a pvp only speeder that is still unchanged till 1,2 which it will be removed permanent)

So since my speeder collection will be never complete....

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kissakias

[Blotter]

OMG, not a whole month before new and exciting unique achievements are introduced? A whole month where the old achievements have been made more readily available to the players and most people won't even bother to get them anyway? This is crazy!!!!

[Shinybum]

Patch 1.2 is supposed to be the big thing that brings people in, or back, and that's a great thing. Whether it does that or not I'm certainly looking forward to the new content.

 

But what's wrong with BW giving those of us who stuck with them a little thank you present by giving us the chance at stuff that might otherwise have been out of our reach before that happens? The people who join before 1.2 (more or less) get a Founder's title, and the ones who started at the very beginning get an opportunity to buy other stuff. There are things on that list I can't afford, and things I don't want, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact that I *can* afford one of those big speeders doesn't mean I *will* buy one, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in this position. From another angle, you could say that they're making it *easier* for collectors to get this stuff before it's withdrawn.

 

personally i quited cuz of speeders sovereign and prince, i cant get them in such a sort time (i dont know from where i can get that prince the BW say)

and is unfair for pvers that spend all their game time to reach social 10 while the pvpers dont need them anymore (sovereign is a pvp only speeder that is still unchanged till 1,2 which it will be removed permanent)

So since my speeder collection will be never complete....

 

A quick hypothetical question for you: suppose BW decided to give everyone who registered in December 2011 a free speeder for Chrismas 2012, to say, "Thanks for being with us from the very start. Here's an anniversary present from us to you, because without your support at the beginning we wouldn't be here now." Would you quit then if you didn't qualify?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Shinybum

[Darcedge]

this will only bother people with mentality like this: "i've got it the hard way so noone else should have it easier"

 

if anything - it should matter only to you that you got it the hard way, leave the rest alone

 

 

Pretty much this. It took me a while to get my columi main hand drop but when I did I was happy I finally got purple bolts. With this change now anyone with 120k can get purple and I for one am happy for them.

[mdob]

I do, however, think quitting the game over not being able to have every single example of a particular thing is a bit of an overreaction. Your choice, but not everyone is going to think it's a reasonable one.

 

I agree that quitting the game may be extreme. However as a collector, or a completist, my desire to collect items in this game, and therefore my desire to play this game, will be forever diminished if I am unable to obtain these speeders by BioWare's made up deadline.

[Kindara]

Even the ones that HAVE been put on vendors, sure they're cheaper, but they're going away. This means they are even more limited than before, because before some just needed time and they would be able to eventually get it, no matter how much they played. No people will only have a month or so to buy them, and then they are gone for good except from other players selling them.

 

The ones you buy from the vendor are Bind on Pick up they'r eonly removing BOP from the crafted ones / dropped ones.

 

They also said they'd be cycling in and out items in the game like social gear and mounts for a long time. This is a good thing and it still keeps some items rare as they may not be available again for months or years so new players or new alts or players that haven't gotten them by 1.2 will have to work towards something else.

 

Honestly if you definite rarity epeen by a mount your playing the wrong game. I believe rare dragon epeen mounts there is another game out there.

 

Rarity is not dead, they're merely giving people a chance with plenty of creds to blow a chance to do pick up some items that are going to be replaced (because those hard to get rare mounts are about 1 million credits still). and they already did the number crunches that proved only a small population of players has that much money.

 

I saved up 500k the last 2 weeks for this and I got 2 whole items out of it. A mount 55k that was whole lot more and a megenta crystal. I'm officially broke at this point (had to buy lvl 50 mount training). So many items will still be rare to me since I can't run out adn by cyan or white.

 

When the next run of mounts and rare items hits in 1.2 im sure there'll be quite a few items from that when they're cycled out that I won't be able to get. When seasonal events hit and they add rare items to that I'll probably miss out on some. Beceasue the seasonal events will as they have said before have rare little tid bits to collect for a short time only.

 

Its also insulting to say that because I didn't go grind a Raid or certain Warzones or Dailies to get X items that I didn't put in hard work. You don't just sneeze at lvl 50 after training and managed to scape up enough bucks to buy something nice. I Had to work my rear end off for the credits I just spent.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kindara

[Kissakias]

Patch 1.2 is supposed to be the big thing that brings people in, or back, and that's a great thing. Whether it does that or not I'm certainly looking forward to the new content.

 

But what's wrong with BW giving those of us who stuck with them a little thank you present by giving us the chance at stuff that might otherwise have been out of our reach before that happens? The people who join before 1.2 (more or less) get a Founder's title, and the ones who started at the very beginning get an opportunity to buy other stuff. There are things on that list I can't afford, and things I don't want, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact that I *can* afford one of those big speeders doesn't mean I *will* buy one, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in this position. From another angle, you could say that they're making it *easier* for collectors to get this stuff before it's withdrawn.

but they didnt do the same for the sovereign and prince

A quick hypothetical question for you: suppose BW decided to give everyone who registered in December 2011 a free speeder for Chrismas 2012, to say, "Thanks for being with us from the very start. Here's an anniversary present from us to you, because without your support at the beginning we wouldn't be here now." Would you quit then if you didn't qualify?

 

thats why i pre-order the DDE, to have the speeder, if i founded the game the janouary i'll never start it knowing that ill never have the chance to get that speeder

[Bobinator]

Dont all MMOs do this....when theres a big wave of new content the old gear is put on sale or easier to get with a form of currency?

 

So yeah...welcome to MMOs...

Edited March 7, 2012 by Bobinator

[Kissakias]

I agree that quitting the game may be extreme. However as a collector, or a completist, my desire to collect items in this game, and therefore my desire to play this game, will be forever diminished if I am unable to obtain these speeders by BioWare's made up deadline.

 

quiting a game for such thing is extreme?

 

everyone of us they put priorities in everything that we do in our lives

for me is this, for some is a big deal for others a small issue

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kissakias

[Kissakias]

Dont all MMOs do this....when theres a big wave of new content the old gear is put on sale or easier to get with a form of currency?

 

So yeah...welcome to MMOs...

 

thats not fully happend here (sovereign and prince are still restricted)

and no, not all mmos do this

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kissakias

[mdob]

thats why i pre-order the DDE, to have the speeder, if i founded the game the janouary i'll never start it knowing that ill never have the chance to get that speeder

 

I'm on your side. What BioWare is doing by removing these speeders is wrong, but I can't say I will quit over it. That's all. I will do everything in my power to get them before they are gone though.

[Mdesade]

Doesn't really bother me.

 

If you are into the competitive thing and you play well, the other people who are competitive will recognize you as a good player with or without pixel trophies.

[Kissakias]

Doesn't really bother me.

 

If you are into the competitive thing and you play well, the other people who are competitive will recognize you as a good player with or without pixel trophies.

 

im not collecting for them, im collecting for me

collections are my bias

[Kissakias]

I'm on your side. What BioWare is doing by removing these speeders is wrong, but I can't say I will quit over it. That's all. I will do everything in my power to get them before they are gone though.

 

look man i think of it like you to try to get them, still dont know where is that prince and i dont think in 20 days i can manage to reach valor 65.

 

and still why the hell didnt do that for those speeders too? why they left the sovereign and prince still hard to get while the commander and baron are so easy to get? this unfairness is another hard issue to continue

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kissakias

[Mashy]

personally i quited cuz of speeders sovereign and prince, i cant get them in such a sort time (i dont know from where i can get that prince the BW say)

and is unfair for pvers that spend all their game time to reach social 10 while the pvpers dont need them anymore (sovereign is a pvp only speeder that is still unchanged till 1,2 which it will be removed permanent)

So since my speeder collection will be never complete....

 

That's like saying "I'm not shopping at Mom n Bub anymore cause they ran out of the purple pacifiers".