Sith Assassin Detailed Deception Guide

[Suzakuxp]

Great post OP!

 

I think adding in a section about equipment and re-modding the current tier pieces e.g. get X amount of acc and then start remodding anything that takes you over X amount for better dps. Also a list of stats to prioritise e.g. Willpower > Power > Crit > Surge > Acc (not sure if this is correct priority for stats).

 

Looking forward to your tanking guide when you get round to making it.

 

-Ragg

[ydenneksirhc]

Great post OP!

 

I think adding in a section about equipment and re-modding the current tier pieces e.g. get X amount of acc and then start remodding anything that takes you over X amount for better dps. Also a list of stats to prioritise e.g. Willpower > Power > Crit > Surge > Acc (not sure if this is correct priority for stats).

 

Looking forward to your tanking guide when you get round to making it.

 

-Ragg

 

Hey ragg, thanks for your kind words! i appreciate it!

 

In terms of priority stats, i honestly just wear what the gear sets give me. When i played wow i was really into moving stuff around and gear changes and different combos, but in this game i simply just follow the stats of the stalker gear (deception and madness gear) and jsut work with that. the only changes i ever make are i will occasionally wear some columi (dont pve enuf for rakata haha) because i believe expertise has a soft cap, not too sure.

 

Unfortunately, im quitting in a few days, but if i can make a guide while not having an active subscriptoin i will do so. If i cant post without a paid subscription then i apologize in advance. It would be a shame because i already have a part of the tank guide started.

[Studdley]

Thanks for the great guide. I tried my Assassin again and your advice really really helped. Even in his low 20's it made a huge difference. Got my first 2.5k medal, and first time at the top of a board. Not bragging, just really amazed at the difference.

You opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities (and a new main again). Thanks!!!

[Draeb]

Great stuff. You clued me in on a few things I didn't know. I'll have to test them out next.

 

 

I have a bunch of questions for you.

 

You mentioned hat Surging Charge is Deceptions tank ability, can you clarify on that? I was under the impression that Surge Charge was to complement the dps ability in Deception.

 

 

How often do you taunt while playing Deception? Are you constantly taunting when you have a healer around?

 

 

 

I do fairly well in pvp but I feel I may be missing out on more just from not knowing my procs. I understand that x2 Voltaic Slash procs for Shock, but I didn't know that Maul had procs as well. How can you tell when Maul procs?

 

 

 

I'm looking around 100k damage as a lvl39 'sin per match. I've hit 200k a few times but that's because I've had heals(back up). I feel I would be doing more damage but I get focused a lot and have to dip on out most of the time to heal(I'm mostly off behind enemy lines harassing healers or campers. I believe you would agree that that's fairly normal for us(to be focused fired), but how do you get 500k under so much pressure at times? Are you in premades and doing this damage?

 

 

Anyway, good tips and guide. One thing I didn't see you mention is Mind Crush or whatever the ability is. It's the DOT ability. What are your opinions on it?

 

 

 

Thanks.

[jbuschell]

Dark charge is for tanking, surge is for deception deeps, I'm lvl 18 and doing about 150k dmg a game and getting 8 to 9 medals since I stay in dark charge and guard my bro despite being deception its all about the medals and mvp votes. With that being said I personally haven't found the guide helpful mainly because I was a glad in wow and know how to determine a good spec, abilities and rotation on my own, but I could see how its very helpful to someone who is just starting out, so I applaud you for that and you seem like a very helpful and cheery fellow so I have nothing real negative to say.

 

In my 30s I'm going madness though, I believe its the most underated spec, my buddy let me get on his madness sin for a little bit and i was pulling 350 to 400k dmg, so maybe one day ill write a comprehensive madness guide, but probably not because I'm lazy

[ydenneksirhc]

Dark charge is for tanking, surge is for deception deeps, I'm lvl 18 and doing about 150k dmg a game and getting 8 to 9 medals since I stay in dark charge and guard my bro despite being deception its all about the medals and mvp votes. With that being said I personally haven't found the guide helpful mainly because I was a glad in wow and know how to determine a good spec, abilities and rotation on my own, but I could see how its very helpful to someone who is just starting out, so I applaud you for that and you seem like a very helpful and cheery fellow so I have nothing real negative to say.

 

In my 30s I'm going madness though, I believe its the most underated spec, my buddy let me get on his madness sin for a little bit and i was pulling 350 to 400k dmg, so maybe one day ill write a comprehensive madness guide, but probably not because I'm lazy

 

ya i understand your type, you really can play the game and actually know how to play the class, i really enjoy pvping with guys like you, you give me the challenge i dont seem to get most games

 

i try to be helpful yes, and if you have anything to add since you have previous experience in MMOs please dont hesitate to throw it in here

 

And you will have to be the one writing the madness guide, ill never touch madness, looks like crap, and ever other sin on the server whines about it hahaha, cheers!

[ydenneksirhc]

Great stuff. You clued me in on a few things I didn't know. I'll have to test them out next.

 

 

I have a bunch of questions for you.

 

You mentioned hat Surging Charge is Deceptions tank ability, can you clarify on that? I was under the impression that Surge Charge was to complement the dps ability in Deception.

 

 

How often do you taunt while playing Deception? Are you constantly taunting when you have a healer around?

 

 

 

I do fairly well in pvp but I feel I may be missing out on more just from not knowing my procs. I understand that x2 Voltaic Slash procs for Shock, but I didn't know that Maul had procs as well. How can you tell when Maul procs?

 

 

 

I'm looking around 100k damage as a lvl39 'sin per match. I've hit 200k a few times but that's because I've had heals(back up). I feel I would be doing more damage but I get focused a lot and have to dip on out most of the time to heal(I'm mostly off behind enemy lines harassing healers or campers. I believe you would agree that that's fairly normal for us(to be focused fired), but how do you get 500k under so much pressure at times? Are you in premades and doing this damage?

 

 

Anyway, good tips and guide. One thing I didn't see you mention is Mind Crush or whatever the ability is. It's the DOT ability. What are your opinions on it?

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Sure, ill be glad to answer

 

First off, i never said surging charge was the tanking stance, always dark charge for tanking stance, i just mentioned i switch from surging to dark charge when i want to say protect a ball carrier in huttball, give him/her the extra few meters of life, ill probably die, but ill get them farther, other than that, 100 force cost to change stances in any other scenario is pointless.

 

Taunting is a personal preference. Im currently in tank stance for my last few days before i quit so i can write up a guide while im away for a few months. Basically i only taunt a enemy when they are harassing my healer, or just a healer nearby, other than that, dps can usually handle themselves and dont need my taunt. In big mosh pit fights (mainly voidstar) i AoE every CD, gets me 3 medals within a match just from using that AoE taunt every CD in a mosh pit scenario. Great ability. in deception, i have taunt keybinded easily for me, so i can use it whenever i deem necessary, i mean it costs nothing to do, just a global cooldown lol.

 

The 2x voltaic slashs is two procs, after you do VS twice, you get a reduced shock cost and increased shock damage, great deal for just two slashes

 

In terms of the maul proc, look in your deception tree, the very bottom row in the middle, its called "duplicity" basically i tell people here in my guide, ONLY use maul when duplicity procs, because duplicity makes maul cost 50% less (so 25 force instead of 50) and using 50 force for maul is stupid, complete waste of force, so just keep attacking your target and eventually you will look on your buffs bar (the buff pictures above your HP bar, next to your characters portrait) and you will see the proc sign, use it then, it will do more damage too. Basically just use maul when it procs, and it will cost 25 force. Surging charge attacks have a 30% change to proc that maul proc, so it will happen more often than you think. Botttom line: If you dont see the maul proc, dont use maul!!!

 

My best match at 512k total in voidstar, was with 3 guildies, and only one was a healer, and he was half centurion half level 48 oranges, so it wasnt like i had a fully champ geared healer with me, but all 3 guildies were Real life friends from high school and we were on vent, so ya the communication helps, if you have a guild or get into one that pvps daily, hang with them, get into ques with them and such, and you will win more. I lose about 60-70% of my matches because my friends arent with me, and so many people dont know how to pvp nowadays. And those loses are really only against other premades, so ill solo que, and ill be up against a premade of the best pvp guild on the server, then after that match ill ask if i can join them, and they always invite me haha. Making friends and being friendly never hurts

 

My best damage done without a premade was like 450k i think, so ive had good matches without my guildies, but at the end of the day, i lost that 450k match, and i got like 8 medals, and most votes, because i was constantly helping the ball carrier.

 

In terms of the casted DoT, its a waste imo, some assassins have told me they use it, but dude, its some initial damage of the cast, then like a 5-6 second DoT, which is not nearly as strong as it should be for the force cost. If your a sorcerer, then hell ya, talents buff that skill. Otherwise as a sin, dont bother, doesn't do enough damage to justify the force cost, BUT thats my opinion, some assassins use it and claim success, and some very smart ones, use that spell against a melee opponent, and when your opponent interupts you, its a great way to make that person blow their interupt CD, but for me its a waste.

 

Good Luck

[jbuschell]

We will see I'm going to be playing my sin a lot more since they buffed the crap out of marauders, I already wtfpwned on him before thy announced the pts patch notes and I just see a bunch of rage specced mara nerds ruining my class and turning it into a hated fotm so I want to level my sin and roflstomp my former class, I said I would go madness but I'm pretty sure if they don't touch darkness damage that will be the way to go.

 

Deception just needs two defensive cooldowns to make it work, a evasion type move that gives them let's say 60% chance to dodge physical attacks for 8 seconds and a move like marauders guarded by the force except when near death, very much like the wow rogues move cheat death, and then had a move to reset cooldowns

Edited March 17, 2012 by jbuschell

[Gmodone]

Great guide! Im not 50 yet and cant wait to get there. What I like to do when I wanna get a lil more extra damage is pop recklessness, surge/crit relic, and surge adrenal it will add alot more damage (thanks Zybak) .

 

I don't use my keyboard to play this game or any MMO, I use a Razer nostromo, Razer naga combo. The Nostrom/Naga combo makes me react alot faster especially during PVP. I use the thumb wheel on the Nostromo to move around instead of the ASDQE buttons.

 

Jagoh Lawrazor

41 Assassin

[Hermagaddon]

Yden,

 

I just read your post, have to say it was quite packed with information. However i could not muster the will to go through 9 pages to see what people responded, So perhaps someone said this already.

 

Personally i am a Tankassasin and i plan to stay this way, but i was curious about the dps side of the assasin. Your spec seems to use shock alot, so isnt it better to put the remaining skills into the 3th skill row (Cant remember the name atm) instead of the Darkness skill row,

 

That way you would have a 45% chance of doing a second shock which deals 50% of the damage. Giving your the ability to deal more damage.

 

 

Now as i said, i dont play as dps so im sure there is a reason why you didnt. What i am wondering is, what was that reason?

[Exakter]

gotta agree with the rude dude here.

 

The guide is full of information, but not necessarily correct information. Rather than pointing out what was wrong in a polite manner, he did personal attacks. Yet the gist of his argument is valid, and still stands. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and thats exactly what you've given the masses here. A lot of it is correct, and therefore the stuff that is wrong will screw new players over for a while.

 

First off, your gear, dps, and explanation of how to use the class in pvp vs pve needs to be specified much more. Deception assassins are about the burst damage. Nothing else matters. If you play focusing on something other than burst, (which your spec does) then you are gimping yourself and your team. Why? Read the text below.

 

 

First, a little re-introduction to assassins a la pvp.

 

Madness does more all out damage than either deception or darkness. One v one you are fairly weak, but in aoe situations, or if you are capable of minimizing your threat to enemies (weaving, making yourself an annoying/hard target will cause melee's to ignore you eventually) you should be able to shut down entire enemy teams (dots/aoe = very effective in tandem with sorcs). Also grants a bit more mitigating with spells, which will enable you to get back into the battle faster. (if only just)

 

Darkness grants more damage if you are concerned about sustained damage. (You stay alive 4/5x longer, and can thus take out ANY tank class (you do more damage, and have comparable defenses) and DPS classes. Healers.. are a no go, unless you like to harass them (but note, a darkness assassin without extremely high crit/surge will never kill a healer, and if he does its because the healer is a) bad or b) unlucky/lagging/slow on a cast). Darkness also allows for more utility in warzones, allowing one assassin to effectively defend any position alone for up to 30-40 seconds against lots of folks when played right. It also allows for pulls, guards, and wither (great debuff these days).

 

Deception, in comparison with madness and darkness doesn't have much to offer. And I say this as a current deception player. You are squishy as all hell. Your damage comes after building up some charges (you NEED burst damage to kill your primary targets - healers) Why? Because if you are running around attacking a) tanks, or b) dps , your going to make yourself a target with voltaic slash. It's a beacon that says "hey, I will kill you if you don't attack me, but if you attack me, you'll probably kill me" Sure, you can win in 1v1 situations, but PVP these days is not a 1v1 situation. I even recommend going against all those theory crafters, and then straight up constant dpsers and say I wait for my discharge charges to be built up. Wait may not be the right word, I will attack a completely different target to build up charges, and then go and unleash (in conjunction with 2x voltaic slashes, reckless, adrenal, relic, and shock, discharge may actually knock some players down to 30% or lower for an assassinate, making it a 4 hit kill.)

 

Warzones are small, cramped, and not for deception assassins to be in the midst of the fray. (You will Die.) Thus, deception assassins are pretty much the "go kill the healer" spec for assassins. Which, if done well, and done quickly can lead to high damage scores. If the enemy team responds and focuses you, just remember "you did your job". Nothing ruins a team's day more than when their heals stop coming in the midst of a fight.

 

And to kill those healers? You need as much burst as you can get your hands on. And usually that means points are needed in chain shock (in madness spec for you newbs, 45% chance upon shock crit to deal 50% damage again), with my relic, adrenal, & recklessness I am able to go 2x Voltaic, reckless, adrenal, relic, shock(2-4k crit x .45 chance of 1-2k crit), discharge (3-5k crit), low slash, maul, depending on health assassinate or voltaic/shock/assassinate, dead. (Presuming healer is less geared than I, and not guarded - will ruin your day guaranteed) You can even ******** two healers at once, just divide and conquer. Make them defensive (because healers CAN kill you if they get the range on you)

 

As for gear.. I see why you may want force master gear, but the set bonuses really aren't what they are cracked up to be. I stand by an extra charge of recklessness which improves my chances of killing a healer by 1/3.

 

Look at everything situationally. What do you personally like to do? In and out of stealth and kill people? Then do that, at the rear of enemy lines in huttball on healers as a deception assassin.

 

Do you like you wade into the fray and try and take out tanks/dps/whatever? Darkness will do it for you.

 

Do you like to kite the enemy, and tantalize them with ranged damage and then come up and face-**** them at low health, while finishing off a group with a high damage ranged aoe? Madness.

 

Darkness shines in first and foremost in huttball, but a good defense on a voidstar is also perfect territory. (Hold a door alone, or buff your group with your ****** taunts/guard) Alderaan is useful for when you get a point, damage is a bit low, so can make taking the sides hard (obviously premade groups with a tank are also awesome) therefore middle is usually the most fun as a tankassassin.

 

Deception, in huttballs get the healers at the rear/top. Knock snipers/ranged off of catwalks and then attack them. Stealth by firepits at the rear and mindtrap/stun people on fire pits. (Earns you some hate though, so watch the lack of heals from those healers you ****) And be a nuisance for the enemy to worry about. Hide at their line for jugs to jump to you and cap, or be thrown to. In Voidstar, it's unfortunately like the middle of huttball at the doors. Expect to die, a lot, on both offense and defense unless you play to win. Use your allies as visible distractions for the door guard on the weaker side, and then plant. Always run ahead, at the first gate - force speed and jump at the last moment across the middle (out of stealth) and restealth/plant = almost guaranteed to screw the enemies day. In general, don't play to kill, but play to plant/get ahead (if you can't do that because the enemy is well coordinated, focus on the healers that are inevitably hiding near the pillars on either side of the doors. Use the same pillars to minimize l-o-s from the melee going on at the door and ranged shooting at it. (It should be going on at the door, if it's not, yell at your tanks.) Civil war is by far the most fun warzone for a deception assassin because there is more than a 10x10 feet space where the fighting is all going on. Unfortunately, also seems to be the rarest for me. In civil war, use your stealth to your advantage, you can finally mind trap folks at ease, and **** healers whereever you bloody well trap them.

 

 

At the end of a warzone match, a deception assassin should be hovering above 200k damage but BELOW 300k. Your protection numbers don't matter, and are often misleading to your overall effectiveness and contribution to the battle. (For the best AoE taunts, you need to be in the fray, if your in the fray, your not on the healer. Which isn't to mean you can't blow an AoE taunt on a stealth/force speed through a melee on your way to a healer).

That means you've done your job, assuming that damage was at least on healers. 200k Means you weren't spending your entire time dealing damage, but also making sure you have the right targets, and that you are positioning yourself for defense/capture/passing etc. More than 300k indicates you were not focusing on the objectives at all, and as one of the few classes that can use stealth to navigate the warzone... means you did not play to your strengths. You will have lower damage than madness or darkness (of equal skill level) because you were focusing on a single target, you may even have less killing blows (death field is amazing for that), and you will certainly have less damage taken, most likely less protection (no guard, except on rare occasions), and 0 healing. (Medals as darkness assassin mean nothing, if you don't get at least 6 on a non-walkover, you suck, period.) Medals as deception assassin mean a little more, but not really. Protection is still easily gained, as are killing blows, but you will have to work to spread your attacks more for total number of kills, which usually means you'll do less individual burst damage (a bad trade off imho for us). A lot of what I said above may seem counter-intuitive, but trust me I win a lot more matches and valor by focusing on winning the match rather than killing any given guy I can as deception. (Sometimes you just gotta let a ***** run past)

 

Yes, that does mean we rely on offensive cooldowns as deception assassins. ( Which means it really blows when you don't crit after using reckless with force moves, it's a 1/10 - 1/20th chance to happen depending on base crit, but can mean your entire attack will be fluff, as you build up charges and try to get everything out of your reckless- another reason i prefer tank assassin, as random chance always seems to screw me) You can go for sustained (power/non chain shock) damage, but you'd do better doing that as a tankassassin.

 

You can of course do whatever you want with your deception assassin, but your effectiveness in comparison with other assassin specs, or other classes WILL HURT your team. Sorry, it's the truth. Has nothing to do with how good you are individually at doing whatever you are doing, but that you could be doing it another way better.

 

Now, if you take everything here, you may notice I definitely lean towards tank assassin. This is true, now, and probably after the upcoming nerf. It'll still have so much utility in combat, less damage is neither here nor there, half of being a tank and being on an enemy is psychological. They will attack you because you are attacking them. I believe deception assassins don't really need a buff so much as they need some animation changes.

 

Our biggest weakness is our single greatest strength, voltaic slash. It makes us a target, and once you've made yourself a target, people will start to remember you as the squishy guy. That's bad. I recommend switching pvp specs at least once a week for just this reason. Use slayer gear (with crit/surge mods) and you'll do great as a tank assassin, so no needed dual sets of gear) Hopefully they give tank assassins a voltaic slash animation-using move too, If only to so as to not mark me as "easy bait".

 

Final addendum - most of what I've said above applies for solo PVP play in warzones. Group play is simple, just focus more. Also enables you to use tactics that differ wildly from what I've written here, i.e. if you have a guild tank guarding you, you can go into the fray and focus THEIR stupid/weak dps in the fray, laughing at them as they should be on your healers.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[usirfail]

IMO you only need 2 points in Duplicity 3 is jus a waste when your goin to be spamming melee abilities, with 20%, its plenty to keep it proc'ed. it have a cd 10 sec cool down attached to it there for i believe points is more than enough and the other point can be better invested in the spec.

 

i dont grab recirculation either. i save my discharges til i get 5 static charges usually and use it as a finisher before i assinate but thats jus my prefence.

[brgnomnom]

there is good information here. my feedback is that it is a bit long and could probably be parsed down a bit in places. also, i disagree with 2 points in recirculation and 3 in duplicity. on paper it looks good but in practice i feel the rotation starts getting cluttered when you don't have 100% uptime on your target. you will often have procs up just sitting there. also, considering how often a deception assassin must weave in low slash, electrocute, overload, vanish-spike for interrupts and offensive survivability there isn't enough time to do all the parts of the rotation.

 

when i play tonight i will fiddle with timings and make a better assessment of a more realistic rotation in a wz.

[ydenneksirhc]

gotta agree with the rude dude here.

 

The guide is full of information, but not necessarily correct information. Rather than pointing out what was wrong in a polite manner, he did personal attacks. Yet the gist of his argument is valid, and still stands. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and thats exactly what you've given the masses here. A lot of it is correct, and therefore the stuff that is wrong will screw new players over for a while.

 

First off, your gear, dps, and explanation of how to use the class in pvp vs pve needs to be specified much more. Deception assassins are about the burst damage. Nothing else matters. If you play focusing on something other than burst, (which your spec does) then you are gimping yourself and your team. Why? Read the text below.

 

 

First, a little re-introduction to assassins a la pvp.

 

Madness does more all out damage than either deception or darkness. One v one you are fairly weak, but in aoe situations, or if you are capable of minimizing your threat to enemies (weaving, making yourself an annoying/hard target will cause melee's to ignore you eventually) you should be able to shut down entire enemy teams (dots/aoe = very effective in tandem with sorcs). Also grants a bit more mitigating with spells, which will enable you to get back into the battle faster. (if only just)

 

Darkness grants more damage if you are concerned about sustained damage. (You stay alive 4/5x longer, and can thus take out ANY tank class (you do more damage, and have comparable defenses) and DPS classes. Healers.. are a no go, unless you like to harass them (but note, a darkness assassin without extremely high crit/surge will never kill a healer, and if he does its because the healer is a) bad or b) unlucky/lagging/slow on a cast). Darkness also allows for more utility in warzones, allowing one assassin to effectively defend any position alone for up to 30-40 seconds against lots of folks when played right. It also allows for pulls, guards, and wither (great debuff these days).

 

Deception, in comparison with madness and darkness doesn't have much to offer. And I say this as a current deception player. You are squishy as all hell. Your damage comes after building up some charges (you NEED burst damage to kill your primary targets - healers) Why? Because if you are running around attacking a) tanks, or b) dps , your going to make yourself a target with voltaic slash. It's a beacon that says "hey, I will kill you if you don't attack me, but if you attack me, you'll probably kill me" Sure, you can win in 1v1 situations, but PVP these days is not a 1v1 situation. I even recommend going against all those theory crafters, and then straight up constant dpsers and say I wait for my discharge charges to be built up. Wait may not be the right word, I will attack a completely different target to build up charges, and then go and unleash (in conjunction with 2x voltaic slashes, reckless, adrenal, relic, and shock, discharge may actually knock some players down to 30% or lower for an assassinate, making it a 4 hit kill.)

 

Warzones are small, cramped, and not for deception assassins to be in the midst of the fray. (You will Die.) Thus, deception assassins are pretty much the "go kill the healer" spec for assassins. Which, if done well, and done quickly can lead to high damage scores. If the enemy team responds and focuses you, just remember "you did your job". Nothing ruins a team's day more than when their heals stop coming in the midst of a fight.

 

And to kill those healers? You need as much burst as you can get your hands on. And usually that means points are needed in chain shock (in madness spec for you newbs, 45% chance upon shock crit to deal 50% damage again), with my relic, adrenal, & recklessness I am able to go 2x Voltaic, reckless, adrenal, relic, shock(2-4k crit x .45 chance of 1-2k crit), discharge (3-5k crit), low slash, maul, depending on health assassinate or voltaic/shock/assassinate, dead. (Presuming healer is less geared than I, and not guarded - will ruin your day guaranteed) You can even ******** two healers at once, just divide and conquer. Make them defensive (because healers CAN kill you if they get the range on you)

 

As for gear.. I see why you may want force master gear, but the set bonuses really aren't what they are cracked up to be. I stand by an extra charge of recklessness which improves my chances of killing a healer by 1/3.

 

Look at everything situationally. What do you personally like to do? In and out of stealth and kill people? Then do that, at the rear of enemy lines in huttball on healers as a deception assassin.

 

Do you like you wade into the fray and try and take out tanks/dps/whatever? Darkness will do it for you.

 

Do you like to kite the enemy, and tantalize them with ranged damage and then come up and face-**** them at low health, while finishing off a group with a high damage ranged aoe? Madness.

 

Darkness shines in first and foremost in huttball, but a good defense on a voidstar is also perfect territory. (Hold a door alone, or buff your group with your ****** taunts/guard) Alderaan is useful for when you get a point, damage is a bit low, so can make taking the sides hard (obviously premade groups with a tank are also awesome) therefore middle is usually the most fun as a tankassassin.

 

Deception, in huttballs get the healers at the rear/top. Knock snipers/ranged off of catwalks and then attack them. Stealth by firepits at the rear and mindtrap/stun people on fire pits. (Earns you some hate though, so watch the lack of heals from those healers you ****) And be a nuisance for the enemy to worry about. Hide at their line for jugs to jump to you and cap, or be thrown to. In Voidstar, it's unfortunately like the middle of huttball at the doors. Expect to die, a lot, on both offense and defense unless you play to win. Use your allies as visible distractions for the door guard on the weaker side, and then plant. Always run ahead, at the first gate - force speed and jump at the last moment across the middle (out of stealth) and restealth/plant = almost guaranteed to screw the enemies day. In general, don't play to kill, but play to plant/get ahead (if you can't do that because the enemy is well coordinated, focus on the healers that are inevitably hiding near the pillars on either side of the doors. Use the same pillars to minimize l-o-s from the melee going on at the door and ranged shooting at it. (It should be going on at the door, if it's not, yell at your tanks.) Civil war is by far the most fun warzone for a deception assassin because there is more than a 10x10 feet space where the fighting is all going on. Unfortunately, also seems to be the rarest for me. In civil war, use your stealth to your advantage, you can finally mind trap folks at ease, and **** healers whereever you bloody well trap them.

 

 

At the end of a warzone match, a deception assassin should be hovering above 200k damage but BELOW 300k. Your protection numbers don't matter, and are often misleading to your overall effectiveness and contribution to the battle. (For the best AoE taunts, you need to be in the fray, if your in the fray, your not on the healer. Which isn't to mean you can't blow an AoE taunt on a stealth/force speed through a melee on your way to a healer).

That means you've done your job, assuming that damage was at least on healers. 200k Means you weren't spending your entire time dealing damage, but also making sure you have the right targets, and that you are positioning yourself for defense/capture/passing etc. More than 300k indicates you were not focusing on the objectives at all, and as one of the few classes that can use stealth to navigate the warzone... means you did not play to your strengths. You will have lower damage than madness or darkness (of equal skill level) because you were focusing on a single target, you may even have less killing blows (death field is amazing for that), and you will certainly have less damage taken, most likely less protection (no guard, except on rare occasions), and 0 healing. (Medals as darkness assassin mean nothing, if you don't get at least 6 on a non-walkover, you suck, period.) Medals as deception assassin mean a little more, but not really. Protection is still easily gained, as are killing blows, but you will have to work to spread your attacks more for total number of kills, which usually means you'll do less individual burst damage (a bad trade off imho for us). A lot of what I said above may seem counter-intuitive, but trust me I win a lot more matches and valor by focusing on winning the match rather than killing any given guy I can as deception. (Sometimes you just gotta let a ***** run past)

 

Yes, that does mean we rely on offensive cooldowns as deception assassins. ( Which means it really blows when you don't crit after using reckless with force moves, it's a 1/10 - 1/20th chance to happen depending on base crit, but can mean your entire attack will be fluff, as you build up charges and try to get everything out of your reckless- another reason i prefer tank assassin, as random chance always seems to screw me) You can go for sustained (power/non chain shock) damage, but you'd do better doing that as a tankassassin.

 

You can of course do whatever you want with your deception assassin, but your effectiveness in comparison with other assassin specs, or other classes WILL HURT your team. Sorry, it's the truth. Has nothing to do with how good you are individually at doing whatever you are doing, but that you could be doing it another way better.

 

Now, if you take everything here, you may notice I definitely lean towards tank assassin. This is true, now, and probably after the upcoming nerf. It'll still have so much utility in combat, less damage is neither here nor there, half of being a tank and being on an enemy is psychological. They will attack you because you are attacking them. I believe deception assassins don't really need a buff so much as they need some animation changes.

 

Our biggest weakness is our single greatest strength, voltaic slash. It makes us a target, and once you've made yourself a target, people will start to remember you as the squishy guy. That's bad. I recommend switching pvp specs at least once a week for just this reason. Use slayer gear (with crit/surge mods) and you'll do great as a tank assassin, so no needed dual sets of gear) Hopefully they give tank assassins a voltaic slash animation-using move too, If only to so as to not mark me as "easy bait".

 

Final addendum - most of what I've said above applies for solo PVP play in warzones. Group play is simple, just focus more. Also enables you to use tactics that differ wildly from what I've written here, i.e. if you have a guild tank guarding you, you can go into the fray and focus THEIR stupid/weak dps in the fray, laughing at them as they should be on your healers.

 

Dude, i dont mind you agreeing with that rude guy, if thats how you think, thats your opinion, and its yours to keep. But do you wanna know the difference between you, and that rude guy???

 

YOU ACTUALLY SAID SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!!

 

lol, sorry for the caps, but i loved reading what you had to write, i never tried madness, and i recently quit so i never will, but you really made some excellent points, this is the kind of feedback i love. Only thing, you said madness is the stronger DPS tree, well maybe your right, but at the end of the day, this guide is for people who insist of playing the deception spec because they love it, not because they believe its the better spec. I play MMOs to enjoy myself, and become the best i can at my specific class, not to play the most OP spec and wreck. I wrecked in deception, against some of the best players on my server, and ive been invited into many premades, because i play well. I dont want to conform in MMOs, ive always chosen the harder classes, because i enjoy the challenge.

 

But hey, if i ever decide to come back and play my sin again, im definitely going to try madness, and ill be sure to come back and re read your post if i do so, such a great post man, well said!!!

 

Cheers

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[ydenneksirhc]

there is good information here. my feedback is that it is a bit long and could probably be parsed down a bit in places. also, i disagree with 2 points in recirculation and 3 in duplicity. on paper it looks good but in practice i feel the rotation starts getting cluttered when you don't have 100% uptime on your target. you will often have procs up just sitting there. also, considering how often a deception assassin must weave in low slash, electrocute, overload, vanish-spike for interrupts and offensive survivability there isn't enough time to do all the parts of the rotation.

 

when i play tonight i will fiddle with timings and make a better assessment of a more realistic rotation in a wz.

 

MMOs are so tweakable in specs, and the way you set up your toons, thats the fun of it!! good luck in messing around with your sin, and i hope it all goes well for you, any other questions, feel free to ask me

[ydenneksirhc]

gotta agree with the rude dude here.

 

The guide is full of information, but not necessarily correct information. Rather than pointing out what was wrong in a polite manner, he did personal attacks. Yet the gist of his argument is valid, and still stands. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and thats exactly what you've given the masses here. A lot of it is correct, and therefore the stuff that is wrong will screw new players over for a while.

 

First off, your gear, dps, and explanation of how to use the class in pvp vs pve needs to be specified much more. Deception assassins are about the burst damage. Nothing else matters. If you play focusing on something other than burst, (which your spec does) then you are gimping yourself and your team. Why? Read the text below.

 

 

First, a little re-introduction to assassins a la pvp.

 

Madness does more all out damage than either deception or darkness. One v one you are fairly weak, but in aoe situations, or if you are capable of minimizing your threat to enemies (weaving, making yourself an annoying/hard target will cause melee's to ignore you eventually) you should be able to shut down entire enemy teams (dots/aoe = very effective in tandem with sorcs). Also grants a bit more mitigating with spells, which will enable you to get back into the battle faster. (if only just)

 

Darkness grants more damage if you are concerned about sustained damage. (You stay alive 4/5x longer, and can thus take out ANY tank class (you do more damage, and have comparable defenses) and DPS classes. Healers.. are a no go, unless you like to harass them (but note, a darkness assassin without extremely high crit/surge will never kill a healer, and if he does its because the healer is a) bad or b) unlucky/lagging/slow on a cast). Darkness also allows for more utility in warzones, allowing one assassin to effectively defend any position alone for up to 30-40 seconds against lots of folks when played right. It also allows for pulls, guards, and wither (great debuff these days).

 

Deception, in comparison with madness and darkness doesn't have much to offer. And I say this as a current deception player. You are squishy as all hell. Your damage comes after building up some charges (you NEED burst damage to kill your primary targets - healers) Why? Because if you are running around attacking a) tanks, or b) dps , your going to make yourself a target with voltaic slash. It's a beacon that says "hey, I will kill you if you don't attack me, but if you attack me, you'll probably kill me" Sure, you can win in 1v1 situations, but PVP these days is not a 1v1 situation. I even recommend going against all those theory crafters, and then straight up constant dpsers and say I wait for my discharge charges to be built up. Wait may not be the right word, I will attack a completely different target to build up charges, and then go and unleash (in conjunction with 2x voltaic slashes, reckless, adrenal, relic, and shock, discharge may actually knock some players down to 30% or lower for an assassinate, making it a 4 hit kill.)

 

Warzones are small, cramped, and not for deception assassins to be in the midst of the fray. (You will Die.) Thus, deception assassins are pretty much the "go kill the healer" spec for assassins. Which, if done well, and done quickly can lead to high damage scores. If the enemy team responds and focuses you, just remember "you did your job". Nothing ruins a team's day more than when their heals stop coming in the midst of a fight.

 

And to kill those healers? You need as much burst as you can get your hands on. And usually that means points are needed in chain shock (in madness spec for you newbs, 45% chance upon shock crit to deal 50% damage again), with my relic, adrenal, & recklessness I am able to go 2x Voltaic, reckless, adrenal, relic, shock(2-4k crit x .45 chance of 1-2k crit), discharge (3-5k crit), low slash, maul, depending on health assassinate or voltaic/shock/assassinate, dead. (Presuming healer is less geared than I, and not guarded - will ruin your day guaranteed) You can even ******** two healers at once, just divide and conquer. Make them defensive (because healers CAN kill you if they get the range on you)

 

As for gear.. I see why you may want force master gear, but the set bonuses really aren't what they are cracked up to be. I stand by an extra charge of recklessness which improves my chances of killing a healer by 1/3.

 

Look at everything situationally. What do you personally like to do? In and out of stealth and kill people? Then do that, at the rear of enemy lines in huttball on healers as a deception assassin.

 

Do you like you wade into the fray and try and take out tanks/dps/whatever? Darkness will do it for you.

 

Do you like to kite the enemy, and tantalize them with ranged damage and then come up and face-**** them at low health, while finishing off a group with a high damage ranged aoe? Madness.

 

Darkness shines in first and foremost in huttball, but a good defense on a voidstar is also perfect territory. (Hold a door alone, or buff your group with your ****** taunts/guard) Alderaan is useful for when you get a point, damage is a bit low, so can make taking the sides hard (obviously premade groups with a tank are also awesome) therefore middle is usually the most fun as a tankassassin.

 

Deception, in huttballs get the healers at the rear/top. Knock snipers/ranged off of catwalks and then attack them. Stealth by firepits at the rear and mindtrap/stun people on fire pits. (Earns you some hate though, so watch the lack of heals from those healers you ****) And be a nuisance for the enemy to worry about. Hide at their line for jugs to jump to you and cap, or be thrown to. In Voidstar, it's unfortunately like the middle of huttball at the doors. Expect to die, a lot, on both offense and defense unless you play to win. Use your allies as visible distractions for the door guard on the weaker side, and then plant. Always run ahead, at the first gate - force speed and jump at the last moment across the middle (out of stealth) and restealth/plant = almost guaranteed to screw the enemies day. In general, don't play to kill, but play to plant/get ahead (if you can't do that because the enemy is well coordinated, focus on the healers that are inevitably hiding near the pillars on either side of the doors. Use the same pillars to minimize l-o-s from the melee going on at the door and ranged shooting at it. (It should be going on at the door, if it's not, yell at your tanks.) Civil war is by far the most fun warzone for a deception assassin because there is more than a 10x10 feet space where the fighting is all going on. Unfortunately, also seems to be the rarest for me. In civil war, use your stealth to your advantage, you can finally mind trap folks at ease, and **** healers whereever you bloody well trap them.

 

 

At the end of a warzone match, a deception assassin should be hovering above 200k damage but BELOW 300k. Your protection numbers don't matter, and are often misleading to your overall effectiveness and contribution to the battle. (For the best AoE taunts, you need to be in the fray, if your in the fray, your not on the healer. Which isn't to mean you can't blow an AoE taunt on a stealth/force speed through a melee on your way to a healer).

That means you've done your job, assuming that damage was at least on healers. 200k Means you weren't spending your entire time dealing damage, but also making sure you have the right targets, and that you are positioning yourself for defense/capture/passing etc. More than 300k indicates you were not focusing on the objectives at all, and as one of the few classes that can use stealth to navigate the warzone... means you did not play to your strengths. You will have lower damage than madness or darkness (of equal skill level) because you were focusing on a single target, you may even have less killing blows (death field is amazing for that), and you will certainly have less damage taken, most likely less protection (no guard, except on rare occasions), and 0 healing. (Medals as darkness assassin mean nothing, if you don't get at least 6 on a non-walkover, you suck, period.) Medals as deception assassin mean a little more, but not really. Protection is still easily gained, as are killing blows, but you will have to work to spread your attacks more for total number of kills, which usually means you'll do less individual burst damage (a bad trade off imho for us). A lot of what I said above may seem counter-intuitive, but trust me I win a lot more matches and valor by focusing on winning the match rather than killing any given guy I can as deception. (Sometimes you just gotta let a ***** run past)

 

Yes, that does mean we rely on offensive cooldowns as deception assassins. ( Which means it really blows when you don't crit after using reckless with force moves, it's a 1/10 - 1/20th chance to happen depending on base crit, but can mean your entire attack will be fluff, as you build up charges and try to get everything out of your reckless- another reason i prefer tank assassin, as random chance always seems to screw me) You can go for sustained (power/non chain shock) damage, but you'd do better doing that as a tankassassin.

 

You can of course do whatever you want with your deception assassin, but your effectiveness in comparison with other assassin specs, or other classes WILL HURT your team. Sorry, it's the truth. Has nothing to do with how good you are individually at doing whatever you are doing, but that you could be doing it another way better.

 

Now, if you take everything here, you may notice I definitely lean towards tank assassin. This is true, now, and probably after the upcoming nerf. It'll still have so much utility in combat, less damage is neither here nor there, half of being a tank and being on an enemy is psychological. They will attack you because you are attacking them. I believe deception assassins don't really need a buff so much as they need some animation changes.

 

Our biggest weakness is our single greatest strength, voltaic slash. It makes us a target, and once you've made yourself a target, people will start to remember you as the squishy guy. That's bad. I recommend switching pvp specs at least once a week for just this reason. Use slayer gear (with crit/surge mods) and you'll do great as a tank assassin, so no needed dual sets of gear) Hopefully they give tank assassins a voltaic slash animation-using move too, If only to so as to not mark me as "easy bait".

 

Final addendum - most of what I've said above applies for solo PVP play in warzones. Group play is simple, just focus more. Also enables you to use tactics that differ wildly from what I've written here, i.e. if you have a guild tank guarding you, you can go into the fray and focus THEIR stupid/weak dps in the fray, laughing at them as they should be on your healers.

 

And i never said it was the "correct" information. I said that the info i was giving, was my experience and observations of others player the assassin deception spec. Its never necesarilly "correct", but its still valueble advice

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[ydenneksirhc]

Yden,

 

I just read your post, have to say it was quite packed with information. However i could not muster the will to go through 9 pages to see what people responded, So perhaps someone said this already.

 

Personally i am a Tankassasin and i plan to stay this way, but i was curious about the dps side of the assasin. Your spec seems to use shock alot, so isnt it better to put the remaining skills into the 3th skill row (Cant remember the name atm) instead of the Darkness skill row,

 

That way you would have a 45% chance of doing a second shock which deals 50% of the damage. Giving your the ability to deal more damage.

 

 

Now as i said, i dont play as dps so im sure there is a reason why you didnt. What i am wondering is, what was that reason?

 

Hey man, well my main reason for not taking chain shock was because it took an extra charge of recklessness, and a 3-4 crit for me is more valueble than a 1.5-2k chain shock crit, but thats just me!! maybe for you, chain shock is great. Another reason is, the reduced CD on shroud and force speed in the tank tree for me, was unbeatable, most people here have agreed with me when i say deception assassins are so squishy and have next to no survivability, and to be honest, unless im in a premade, most solo que groups on my server suck, it was a heavily populated PvE server (5th most i believe in game) and the majority of people sucked, so i was constantly carrying the huttball, gaurding teammates (switching stances) and preventing turret caps, and door caps. When it comes down to really taking one for your team, and not getting that chain shock for the sake of numbers, the talents in the tanking tree win. i never really mentioned it in my guide, but i was always trying to be the best teamplayer anyone could be, i wanted to win, not get 400k damage and lose. And people really appreciated me for it, and i got more invites to premades (unless i was with my own guild). PvP is a team effort, but unfortunately, most people in solo ques nowadays treat it as a thing to get their dailies done, not be competitive, work together and win.

 

I hope i answered your question!! Cheers

[LordbishopX]

Just discharge before shock and the reckless issue is mute.

[Iraas]

I'm and ex-WoW Rogue player and love the idea of the Deception spec Assassin, even if it isn't as good as Madness spec in the eyes of some.

 

As such I love the guide and will be referring to it as I level.

 

Recommend for Sticky.

[ydenneksirhc]

I'm and ex-WoW Rogue player and love the idea of the Deception spec Assassin, even if it isn't as good as Madness spec in the eyes of some.

 

As such I love the guide and will be referring to it as I level.

 

Recommend for Sticky.

 

I doubt it will become a sticky, because its all my opinions and a based of my personal experiences, not "facts". Ive had enough haters giving me **** for this stuff, so i will always say "its my opinion, not a fact". So dont count on it, but you can always bookmark it, dont sub to it though, you will get notifications everytime someone makes a post on it haha.

 

Cheers

[ydenneksirhc]

Just discharge before shock and the reckless issue is mute.

 

ya, its mute in the sense that you dont have to shock again, but then again, chain shock has a proc chance, not always 100%, and the 45% damage of regular shock bugs me too, if they bumped that to like 70% or so, id be interested, otherwise, no thanks bioware

[arkzehhh]

ya, its mute in the sense that you dont have to shock again, but then again, chain shock has a proc chance, not always 100%, and the 45% damage of regular shock bugs me too, if they bumped that to like 70% or so, id be interested, otherwise, no thanks bioware

 

this^ and aslong as they either, Buff deception slightly / Atleast survivability wise.

Or if they feel the need for the nerf bat, make sure too swing it at Darkness instead, tanks doing as much dps as dps, Mmmkay, Cough 'Juggernabs'.

[ydenneksirhc]

this^ and aslong as they either, Buff deception slightly / Atleast survivability wise.

Or if they feel the need for the nerf bat, make sure too swing it at Darkness instead, tanks doing as much dps as dps, Mmmkay, Cough 'Juggernabs'.

 

Lol i thought (from what ive seen) juggers were the worst DPS among tanks, tankassins being the highest, but i guess thats just from my PoV, lol

[Finndali]

You used the word "spell" 69 times in that guide.

Impressive, considering there are no spells in Star Wars...

 

Aside from that "minor" quibble, its always interesting to read about others insights into PvP.

Helps fighting them.

[ydenneksirhc]

You used the word "spell" 69 times in that guide.

Impressive, considering there are no spells in Star Wars...

 

Aside from that "minor" quibble, its always interesting to read about others insights into PvP.

Helps fighting them.

 

Hahahaha you actually counted? you made my day man lol. and ya i played WoW for like 4 years so "spell" was natural to me, plus, its easier to type "spell" than "ability" 69 times xD

 

And it wont help you fight me, i dont play anymore