Just tried out Carnage

[AcaciaDragon]

Massacre is an amazing move. It will always proc Ataru, as well as a chance to proc a 2nd one on the same ability.

 

With champion gear, my Massacres do 1.2k damage without a crit, my Ataru hit for about 350-400 each. So massacre will always hit for 1.5k-1.6k(1.9k with an extra ataru proc, 50% chance to do so) damage. Without critting. Thats base damage.

 

With Gore up, Massacre gets a damage boost of about 400 more damage on average for me, so now, Massacre does about 1.9k-2k per strike(2.3k with 2nd ataru).

 

All these numbers are with out crits. At a 30% crit chance, at least one of those 3 hits will crit.

 

I find using a Crit relic during a Berserk is more beneficial to me than using a Power Relic(i save me power Relic + Adrenal for a Gore > Ravage > Scream combo).

 

With a Crit Relic and a Berserk and a Gore, Your Damage from the massacres will be about 2.9k per Massacre(3.4k with Ataru), however only 3 of those may crit, So 3 Massacres will hit for just over 10k, the other 3 wont crit, and Gore will fall off after the 3rd or 4th hit so theres another damage reducer after that. So your last 3 will probably do around 1.9k each. But you still have 30% chance to crit(you should) making at least one of those a 2.5k hitter. Bringing the last 3 to about 6.3k base damage. Now with the extra ataru procs, half of those massacres will proc a 2nd one, most likely the first one and the third one, and a third from one of the last 3 Massacres, making the bonus damage around 1.3k from the second ataru hits. So given an average Berserk with these stats, you will do about 15k-17k damage in about 6-8 seconds, given good up time on your target. It obviously goes up even higher if you pop a power adrenal and a crit trinket together or get more crits than what i stated. Not bad for only costing 1 Rage each. I didnt even put Execute into the mix.

 

As for comparing it with the other specs, i did not read those disccusions nor do i care to. To each his own. This is what ive experienced while playing, make comparisons however you want. And i am in no way saying this is better than the others. That Berserk combo requires alot of conditions to be met, full Fury(thank god for Frenzy) Gore, Crit Trinket up, good uptime(Berserk lasts 15 seconds thank god!). Every spec has there awesome Ability combos, Carnage has 2.

Edited February 24, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[malispar]

ITT: MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOUR OPINION

 

 

Seriously though, all 3 specs are super viable for PVP, they simply cater to different play styles. It would be asinine to assume that one is more "faceroll" than another, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Vegettopk]

I'm not going back to Carnage until they fix the bug with Ataru strike range not being calculated from the outside of a larger enemy's hitbox. It makes Carnage unplayable in operations, unless you're going to stand inside of a mob, which makes it harder to get out of AoE range.

[Vegettopk]

ITT: MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOUR OPINION

 

 

Seriously though, all 3 specs are super viable for PVP, they simply cater to different play styles. It would be asinine to assume that one is more "faceroll" than another, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

When Annihilation does more damage over time than Carnage and has better survivability with the damage invulnerability from Force Camo and all the heals, then yes, it is a better spec. If I'm doing 360k damage on Carnage in a Voidstar, but 400k damage and 100k healing on Annihilation, which one is better? Carnage needs a buff so it does more damage than Annihilation for it to be viable.

[GabrielSionoma]

 

Also we have dps meter.Its called infernal counsil in EV,anni finishes it around 20% faster then carnage.

.

 

I did this exact thing a few nights ago against a carnage specced fella'.

Edited February 25, 2012 by GabrielSionoma

[AmedusTOR]

ITT: MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOUR OPINION

 

 

Seriously though, all 3 specs are super viable for PVP, they simply cater to different play styles. It would be asinine to assume that one is more "faceroll" than another, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

QFE

 

I've jumped bewteen all 3 specs more times (and spent a ton of credits re-speccing) than I care to count. While I like what Annihilation does, I've found myself more effective with Carnage. I can beat both Annihilation and Rage specc'ed Marauders in terms of damage. By no means do I think this makes Carnage the ABSOLUTE KING OF ALL SPECS AND IF YOU ARGUE WITH ME I WILL BEGIN A PISSING MATCH OF SUCH MAGNITUDE THAT YOU WILL PUT YOUR FIST THROUGH YOUR MONITOR. But I do think that it's the most fun spec to play (FOR ME), and I can make it belt out the same (if not far more) damage than the other specs, so I'm sticking with it. It's all about preference, play style, and what you can get out of your preferred spec.

 

These weekly "Carnage vs Annihilation" rage troll fests need to stop.

[BrotherJohn]

When Annihilation does more damage over time than Carnage and has better survivability with the damage invulnerability from Force Camo and all the heals, then yes, it is a better spec. If I'm doing 360k damage on Carnage in a Voidstar, but 400k damage and 100k healing on Annihilation, which one is better? Carnage needs a buff so it does more damage than Annihilation for it to be viable.

 

I can not agree more. anna mara are FOTM. carnage needs its bugs worked out and DPS increased to meet the same levels of output in the end as other specs.

[StalkerYuno]

See I disagree. After I pop all poppers, if they are not dead yet then I force choke them which keeps them from doing anything AND gives me rage and time for CD's, then if I have to I will throw a disruption. By then at least something of mine is cooldowned and then I just start popping as they light up with a force scream whenever bloodfrenzy is up. I love it more than anni.

 

Of course I felt just as effective with anni, just with carnage it is over so fast people are like..."*** just happened to me?" with anni everyone is liek "MAN ANNI IS TOO OP'ED." lol.

 

I took down two different well geared for their levels sorc at lvl 35 duels last night. I beat them both with zero problems. They thought I got lucky so they challenged me again and BAMM. got them again with almost half of my health still there. no healers, no medkits. just me and my sabers. I don't think you are supposed to be able to do that against sorcs. everyone I talk to say that sorcs are just WAY too overpowered. I laugh at them as I kill them all. i'm telling you, if you play it right carnage can be far superior...at least to me anyway.

 

lol sorc is joke 1v1. dropped a good full bm sorc in ~5 secs to 10% before he bubbled and sprinted away. and at 35 not sure how much utility they even have.

[Floored]

You would rather have an ability that puts distance between you and your target? Are you serious? What we need is more abilities to stay ON our target. And I also call BS on you getting BOTH bleeds off. You have time to force charge someone, then use a global cooldown, and strike them 3 times to get 3 stacks of Deadly Sabre before they realize they have a Marauder on them and they should knock you back? Either your fighting people who are complete idiots or you're lying. Any good Sorc will knock you back the second you charge them. There is no way your charging, putting down all your bleeds, and attacking through 3 GC's before they realize you're there and knock you back.

 

Stop using charge as an opener.

 

Run in, deadly sabre, get knocked back, force charge back to them. Simple as that.

[Ballfro]

Stop using charge as an opener.

 

Run in, deadly sabre, get knocked back, force charge back to them. Simple as that.

 

I love this...it's so adorable when someone says this. "Just run in and start beating on someone" lol. Ok, so here it is. Im a Marauder, your a....let's say Sorcerer. You see me running at you, Lightsabers blazing. Your going to just stand there, and let me run at you and start blasting you with my lightsabers? Hell no your not. Your going to put a DoT on me, then stun me, then start DPSing the hell out of me, all the while your running further away from me. Now for some reason you decided to stop kiting me, and I get to you, bam knocknack, but ALAS! I have charge waiting for you! Charge! Oh wait...gotta wait 3 seconds since they decided to take the talent thats brilliant for PvP that adds a stun to their knockback. Ok, 3 seconds up BAM Charge! HAHA I'm on you now sucker! Wait...Whats this square on the middle of my screen that says Click here to return to the Starting Area?

 

That's right...im already dead. Because I decided to not use the ONE thing designed to put me within striking distance to my enemy because I know that as soon as I use it, im going to get knocked back. That is such an illogical way of dealing with knockbacks. You act like we are running up to Snipers everytime and that they are going to remain in one spot the entire time. This isn't PvE. They will not come to us. These are people, and if I see a Marauder coming at me? Im running. But not before I lay some DoT's on him and a stun, along with as much damage as I can before he finally reaches me.

 

Some people really need to get a clue about this situation. It's not that simple. It really isnt. the ONLY spec that can somewhat deal with this situation is Carnage because of the roots they have.

 

And as far as the Carnage vs Annihilation council boss comparison? I went last night as Annihilation to help with berserk heals, and when we made it to that fight I kind of got excited because I knew how fast I killed the same guy with Carnage spec. With a pretty tight rotation, I was about 15 seconds slower as Annihilation spec then I was with Carnage. Im not saying thats the end off be all of comparisons but I have a pretty good grasp on both specs. I was the second person done as Carnage last week behind a Sniper. I was 4th this week behind that same Sniper, and Arsenal BH and a Inquisitor. All of who raided the previous week.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Ballfro

[cosmov]

And as far as the Carnage vs Annihilation council boss comparison? I went last night as Annihilation to help with berserk heals, and when we made it to that fight I kind of got excited because I knew how fast I killed the same guy with Carnage spec. With a pretty tight rotation, I was about 15 seconds slower as Annihilation spec then I was with Carnage. .

 

 

Epic fail right there.You are aware that using berserk in that fight as anni gives you debuff that lowers your damage done?So even after you screwed yourself with it it was slower by just 15 seconds?Thanks for proving my point.

[selectah]

Epic fail right there.You are aware that using berserk in that fight as anni gives you debuff that lowers your damage done?So even after you screwed yourself with it it was slower by just 15 seconds?Thanks for proving my point.

 

Fail on your part. It doesn`t lower your dmg it nullifies it. If that would have happen`d i think he would have noticed or died. When you're in your own grp you can use berserk just fine (just doesnt heal any allies then)

[cosmov]

Fail on your part. It doesn`t lower your dmg it nullifies it. If that would have happen`d i think he would have noticed or died. When you're in your own grp you can use berserk just fine (just doesnt heal any allies then)

 

He wouldnt die,it will be harder and longer.Read what he wrote,he decided to help his raid with healing.Reading comprehension fail?

[selectah]

He wouldnt die,it will be harder and longer.Read what he wrote,he decided to help his raid with healing.Reading comprehension fail?

 

He would do no dmg and healing for a minute (refreshing every time he pops berserk) which equals death or at least reset.

Edited February 26, 2012 by selectah

[cosmov]

He would do no dmg and healing for a minute (refreshing every time he pops berserk) which equals death or at least reset.

 

I used berserk by mistake and finished fight with 40% hp,it didnt reset,i didnt die,was on nightmare mode,dunno how you can die on lootcouncil

[Spiderbubble]

Epic fail right there.You are aware that using berserk in that fight as anni gives you debuff that lowers your damage done?So even after you screwed yourself with it it was slower by just 15 seconds?Thanks for proving my point.

 

He meant that he used it for the rest of the raid, not at that section.

 

 

Sure, you cleared that part faster. But did you consider the fact that you COULDN'T get your auto-crit bleeds? That you didn't get 18% healing from being unable to use Berserk? That you healed your team the entire time up to that point?

 

 

Saying that Carnage is stronger than Annihilation is bull. Yes, it's way fun. Yes, it has potential, but it's not there. Annihilation has the utility that Carnage is lacking. Carnage has some utility, yes, but it's not enough to make up for it's abysmal survivability.

[ZakPreston]

I'm a huge fan of Carnage tree, valor rank 59.8 atm, gained almost all on Warzones (hate laggy Illum) never ever specced other trees for more then 1 day.

Rage: Awesome mobility, extra easy rotation, extremely powerful Smashes hitting multiple targets (thou laggy a bit), passive arp and passive damage reduction.

Annihilation: Frightening damage via dots, no need to stay on target 100% uptime, self-healing really allows to solo 2 enemies easilly if cds are properly managed. While healed and guarded only pushback or stun can chill him.

Carnage: good on-demand burs after warm-up, has to spend 2-4 GCD before bursting target, no self-heals, no passive mitigation, 2 roots, 1 root breaker, 15% speed bunus.

Darkness assassin: great passive survivability, can pick his fight, has good sustained aoe damage, good single-taget damage, on-demand burst, great self-healing, aoe-pushback, pull, ranged-stun, 20 sec speed and snare removal.

 

IMHO Carnage needs some major tweaks either to survivability or to their sustained damage.

[cosmov]

I'm a huge fan of Carnage tree, valor rank 59.8 atm, gained almost all on Warzones (hate laggy Illum) never ever specced other trees for more then 1 day.

Rage: Awesome mobility, extra easy rotation, extremely powerful Smashes hitting multiple targets (thou laggy a bit), passive arp and passive damage reduction.

Annihilation: Frightening damage via dots, no need to stay on target 100% uptime, self-healing really allows to solo 2 enemies easilly if cds are properly managed. While healed and guarded only pushback or stun can chill him.

Carnage: good on-demand burs after warm-up, has to spend 2-4 GCD before bursting target, no self-heals, no passive mitigation, 2 roots, 1 root breaker, 15% speed bunus.

Darkness assassin: great passive survivability, can pick his fight, has good sustained aoe damage, good single-taget damage, on-demand burst, great self-healing, aoe-pushback, pull, ranged-stun, 20 sec speed and snare removal.

 

IMHO Carnage needs some major tweaks either to survivability or to their sustained damage.

 

Imho carnage is too prone to failing due to knockbacks,cc and interrupts.It sucks to use gore and get a stun or knockback wasting it.So what it really need is either improvement for it ToT or some diff gore mechanic.

[Ballfro]

Epic fail right there.You are aware that using berserk in that fight as anni gives you debuff that lowers your damage done?So even after you screwed yourself with it it was slower by just 15 seconds?Thanks for proving my point.

 

One of the posters below was correct. I used berserk during the entire raid, except for that fight....I would have thought it would have been obvious for anyone who has actually done the fight. This was also on hard mode too, so I would have been obliterated if I couldnt do damage for 1 minute.

 

And as far as the comment of not being able to use berserk to allow for the guarantee'd crits on that fight? I am simply replying to the person who said that this fight is the "true DPS comparison". So for him, he beat a Carnage Marauder by 20 seconds. We dont know that other persons gear or anything, or their feel for the Carnage rotation. The only true test is a damage meter. The next best thing is to do both spec's yourself, in consecutive weeks like I did and see what happens. For me, Carnage came out on top easily, but thats not to say that Annihilation wasn't better for all the other fights in that Operation. But on that fight, 1v1, no help no interference, Carnage>Annihilation. For me anyway. Here are my Stats in my PvE set with full raid buffs:

 

STR: 1667

MH Damage: 707-858

OH Damage: 199-299

Bonus Damage: 405

Critical Chance: 34.74

Critical Multiplier: 63.40

Edited February 26, 2012 by Ballfro

[cosmov]

 

STR: 1667

MH Damage: 707-858

OH Damage: 199-299

Bonus Damage: 405

Critical Chance: 34.74

Critical Multiplier: 63.40

 

Dunno,i kill it faster by about 10-20% as anni even without berserk,have stats close to yours

 

rakata mainhand,bm offhand,430 bonus damage,36 crit,75 surge.

[Zoah]

I still find it hilarious that none of you have pointed out Carnage's biggest strength. The talented roots are not affected by Resolve. Overwhelm works on people with full Resolve and so does displacement. Carnage will be the spec for competitive pvp. As it is now I play Anni because I like to win games while pugging. Anni Marauder should carry teams in huttball. The 90% predation is perfect for it. The 100% damage reduction on force camo is also amazing for escaping when you don't have a pocket healer. But carnage definitely has the burst needed and on demand. Adding that to being able to root people with full resolve bars I can totally see Carnage Marauders being very wanted. We don't have ranked games yet, but resolve bars will matter you can't have people throwing out cc's willy nilly.

[Xerain]

I still find it hilarious that none of you have pointed out Carnage's biggest strength. The talented roots are not affected by Resolve. Overwhelm works on people with full Resolve and so does displacement. Carnage will be the spec for competitive pvp. As it is now I play Anni because I like to win games while pugging. Anni Marauder should carry teams in huttball. The 90% predation is perfect for it. The 100% damage reduction on force camo is also amazing for escaping when you don't have a pocket healer. But carnage definitely has the burst needed and on demand. Adding that to being able to root people with full resolve bars I can totally see Carnage Marauders being very wanted. We don't have ranked games yet, but resolve bars will matter you can't have people throwing out cc's willy nilly.

 

i can see this holding true...

[Vakyoom]

I still find it hilarious that none of you have pointed out Carnage's biggest strength. The talented roots are not affected by Resolve. Overwhelm works on people with full Resolve and so does displacement. Carnage will be the spec for competitive pvp. As it is now I play Anni because I like to win games while pugging. Anni Marauder should carry teams in huttball. The 90% predation is perfect for it. The 100% damage reduction on force camo is also amazing for escaping when you don't have a pocket healer. But carnage definitely has the burst needed and on demand. Adding that to being able to root people with full resolve bars I can totally see Carnage Marauders being very wanted. We don't have ranked games yet, but resolve bars will matter you can't have people throwing out cc's willy nilly.

 

i agree that it's not bad for PvP. Infact it's fun. However, i'll take the extra fury, the bleeds, the 6 sec interrupt and the 0yd-minimum charge on a 12 sec cd over 1 extra snare (relying on ravage for a snare is not smart, even in a 1v1 situation) and a longer range on obfuscate...

 

you can also root with your charge when they have a full resolve bar, just not on a 6sec cd and it doesnt cost rage, it builds it.

 

The annihilation outweighs the carnage for pvp, outright. I'll save ataru form for bosses.

[Zoah]

You're right about the charge interupts and the lower cooldown on interupt+range and the fury building.

I spec every single thing in Annihilation minus Cloak of Annihilation which is arguably useful, the tree is just /that/ good.

In fact I'd go far as to say it's almost broken with how useful every single feat point is.

[ZakPreston]

Carnage is almost fine, but it lacks greatly survivability and overall damage output:

1. While rage specced u have a very simple rotation that allows u to pop up 3.5-5k crits AOE

2. Passive mitigation, given by Soresu form and properly talented adds good survivability, especially against Elemental\Tech DMG.