Just for you Relent I'm curious though...how do you not kill someone when you have a 50% advantage on them? Especially when that person is "garbage"?

Actually, that is not entirely true, and you know it. Once Infidel's got a core group going, we beat you guys 6 out of the last 8 times we played you, and 2 of those we either bugged you or cheated somehow because you lost someone(which was out fault of course) and finally after 3 legit beatdowns in a row, you all simply rage quit and wouldn't queue anymore. I haven't played a months, in fact I came here to cancel my subscription and happen to read this same garbage spewing out of your mouth still. Infidel's owned you, and everyone else on CO...period. Oh and tell your boy Relent that the *** whoopin I placed upon him is still on youtube....you know, just in case he still says I have never beat him 1 on 1....or wait, we made him rage quit too right?

I would like to introduce you to the Advanced Class: Marauder. They get no stuns. Zip, Zilch, Nada. To me, a stun is something that allows you to beat on them during this duration. We get an 8 second AoE CC which people laugh at and break because they know we have nothing else after that. Force Choke? Self CC as much as a CC.

Because you do not know this class is the reason you don't understand what people are saying. They have more then a knockdown and a 45 second stun. They have the Knockdown, plus a 4 second stun plus an 8 second stun. You have the choice of popping out of 1 of those and it's that decision that will mean the difference between you winning or losing. Also, Debilitate and Flash Bang are the only two that fill the resolve bar, the knockdown does not. They are very smart about this, so the resolve bar is not an issue here.

The knockdown is a stun, Debilitate is a stun(that's 6 seconds of him beating on you) and Flash bang is also a stun. Just because you're not able to hit someone during a stun, doesn't mean it doesn't count as a stun. Think Rogue stunlock, Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot were the only real stuns, Blind and Gouge were just fillers to allow CD's come back up again which is exactly what Flash Bang does. Gives them time to regenerate energy and allow CD's to finish. Plus they can also vanish, removing them from combat while leaving you in combat. This also allows them to renegerate Energy and HP quickly while waiting for CD's to finish so they can restart the process. You have 3 options here. 1. Use your --> Insert stun removal talent here, right after the faceplant and try to take control of the fight. You have several options here, especially if you can get a stun off on them. If they remove it, use your other one. Use this time to pop your defensive CD's and blind them if your are able. 2. Save your stun removal for Flash Bang and just take the beating for the first 6 seconds and hope that you have enough HP left to make a fight out of it. Basically if you can't take control early you are in trouble. Waiting until flash bang to start the fight is leaving you at a heavy disadvantage. An Operative isn't going to run up to a Tank and try this, they are very selective about their targets, and with stealth they can afford to be selective. This means that if they selected you, they believe that they can kill you within the first 6 seconds, or very close to it.

Depends on the class. As a Marauder I use it right away, no sense in letting him take my HP down to 50% if I can avoid it. As soon as im on my face I pop unleash and vanish, if he vanishes I use Intimidating Roar to pull him back out and immediately blind him. It's GG after that.

Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward and Undying Rage. I count 3. I will gladly give you back Undying Rage for a real stun or a knockback. People complain about not being able to do damage to us for 4 seconds...do you have any idea of how much damage I could do to you if I had you stunned for 4 seconds? You all would be begging Bioware to give us back Undying Rage vs allowing us to have a 4 second stun(That allows me to beat the crap out of the person during the duration) like every other class has.

I think you answered your own question here. If that is our biggest attack and its also controllable from your side on wether or not it even happens? Who wouldn't use their only stun to stop it? Oh and that's definitly not our rotation

I am still not seeing this HUGE buff Marauders got in 1.2. If anything, Annihilation Tree took a pretty good hit considering we lost the predation buff, and something that was in the second tier of the Carnage Tree is now in the 4th Teir of the Annihilation Tree which was a must then and its a must now. I don't have anything new in my toolbox that I didn't have prior to 1.2. My stats didn't go up or down. The real issue here is because of the bigger learning curve that playing a Marauder takes, now that people have the hang of it, the class is doing what some people(myself included) prior to patch 1.2 and that's blowing people up left and right. Nothing different because of 1.2, people just got a little better. Any class that is very very well played can do well in PvP against anyone else. I have some PT's that give me a horrible time and others with similar gear that fall like a stack of bricks. Does that mean I should complain that PT's are OP because a well played one is very difficult to handle? No. That just means that I need to be better then he is. And answer me this? How is it that I can faceroll another Marauder/Sentinel with similar gear? I mean the "Class" is overpowered right? The person controlling it means nothing so it should be a fight to the wire shouldnt it? Why is it that many times i'll fight someone with great gear and have 75% HP left and he's dead? Under your theory that can't be possible. Get better at your own class instead of complaining about another class that you feel is superior because of the class and not the person who plays it. Here is a good quote: "An average played Marauder is ok, but a very well played Marauder is godlike" -Me

It's pretty good, very few mistakes from what I saw. My only critisism would be to stay on target the whole time, switching targets even to use Obfuscate give your current target too much time to shift the balance of the combat into their direction. It worked out for you in the video but most of the fights were with Sorcs...and they are target practice for a Marauder lol, even 2v1 especially when they have BM gear and you have WH gear(Judging by your HP without the Rakata Medpack id put you in 75% WH gear unless your using PvE relics/implants). If you browse the forums you will see what most Marauders are looking for and that's help against certain classes like Powertechs and Operatives so i'd imagine if you posted some videos against those two classes you'd get more hits. Otherwise a good video, your technique is there and you seem to use your abilities properly so from a skill standpoint it was well done.

I am not following the logic here for you saying Rage spec is best. Because on one type of class you have an easier time killing that makes it the best? What about the other two healing classes? I'd prefer to have multiple interrupts with the Annihilation tree then an easy button for one class. Also, the sustained damage you have with Annihilation is very sneaky. People don't realize that you just put 3 stacks of Deadly Saber on then as we as a full rupture along with just popping berserk to make those 100% crit, so before they know what hit them you pop Annihilate followed by Ravage and they are dead, proceeding to the SWTOR forums to cry about how OP Marauders are. It's not Rage Marauders they are crying about, I promise you that lol.

A good Powertech is very hard to kill. Easily the toughest for me in the game. The real key is to survive their burst and this is done a few ways. Hopefully you Biochem, if not this wont work for you. When they take about 4k or so off you, pop your medpack. What happens is it heals that 4k, and adds 3500 to your HP pool so with some quick math it goes like this: 18000HP -4000 PT Damage +4000~ Medpack 21500 HP -3500 PT Damage 18000HP Med pack wears off, still sitting at 18000 HP. You have now taken quite a bit of damage and he has nothing to show for it. You are still at full HP. After this, you will have filled your Fury to 30, so now you use Deadly Saber and Rupture at the exact same time(Press both buttons at the same time, Deadly Saber is not on the global cooldown so it can be pressed in conjunction with any other ability) then pop berserk. You will now heal yourself for more than 7k HP over the next 10 seconds. If you still die after following this advice then it's not him being good, trust me. I consistantly take on my server's best PT's in full WH gear and live to talk about it 95% of the time. A bad, well geared PT is even easier and a bad PT with bad gear is...yea. I hope this helps, if your not Biochem stop everything and make that happen.

A secondary stat will never be more viable then a primary stat. In this case you are saying that 18 power > 18 STR and that's simply not the case. The only time this would work is if you were capped on STR or were recieving deminishing returns on STR, both of which cannot happen currently in the game. The 18STR 12END is the best pound for pound augment you can get. The only other time I can see a benefit to choosing a secondary stat over your primary stat is if you are incredibly low on Surge or Crit rating, but you will find yourself yanking those mods to replace them with STR mods once you start gearing up a bit. Are you Annihilation or Carnage? If you are Annihilation then power is even lower on the totem pole simply because our damage is sustained and power will help that but not nearly as much as other stats will. More on topic, I am going to be using the Exalted Marauder's Bracers and Belt and buying 2 extra pairs of WH Gloves to yank the Armoring and Mod out of. This gives me better stats then the WH Bracers and Belt do and only require minimal effort in getting 2 pairs of gloves vs the WH Belt and Bracers, 1k more ranked comms. The WH Gloves armoring does not say (Gloves) on it so this should work. The stat difference is worth the extra 1k comms though. Believe it or not with 5/5 main set WH, along with STR Augments I am sitting at almost perfect stats, 29% Crit, 75.00% Surge(Can you believe its exactly 75%??) and 100% Accuracy. Im also comepletely finished with all companion quests too and they are ll 10000/10000 so I get 1% bonus to Acc, Surge, Crit, HP and Healing done on me. 1% is actually a very high amount, so its worth getting those done.

I see no benefit to this spec at all. I have commented in the quoted part for each thing you believe is worth having this spec. I can in no way see this spec even coming close to the damage and healing I do right now as Annihilation. Not even close. This spec is like going to a Buffet only to find out that it's filled with side dishes only. They will still fill you up, but you will be left wanting something much better.

They are indeed a thorn in our side. That AC and spec isn't as widely used since most people like the burst of concealment spec but I think they undervalue Leathality. The key to this class is to try and make them burn their evasion and cloaking screen. Also, make sure you keep rupture off of cooldown as much as humanly possible, this means using Viscious Slash quite often. Blind them every chance you get and force choke them as soon as you apply bleeds so they can't cleanse them right away. If they pop out of it, good for you, they now have one less way to get away from you. The more you understand their class, the easier it is to find their weakness. They excel against Marauders because they are one of the few classed that can kite us quite well. The Lethal tree has so many speed boost from using certain abilities that it seems like they are moving at a high rate of speed all the time. The key is not to panic, they will stun you 2 times. Do NOT use unleash on the 4 second stun, because if they use flash bang you are screwed, they will heal up to full and be ready to smash you by the time it wears off. So take the beating during the 4 second stun, they don't have the burst like Concealment does. With Concealment, its the other way around. 4 seconds is more then enough time to kill you if they are geared right and have CD's available, so you want to use unleash the moment they use Debilitate, then blind them right away, apply bleeds then use Berserk asap. If not enough Fury, pop Frenzy. Using Berserk immediately following your 2 bleeds will cause you to heal for a very good amount. Hope this helps, this is no easy task but the longer the fight lasts the better shape you will be in.

Annihilation > All especially for PvP. Some people will argue that Carnage is right up there with Annihilation. Don't listen to them. I leveled as Carnage, and know the spec extremely well and the most I got in a WZ(In Patch 1.1 anyway) was 305k, and with Annihilation it's 702k. As far as leveling with this spec you will find that you will stay alive quite a bit longer then with Carnage or Rage. Overall, Annihilation is the best.

Ok, I narrowed the book you wrote here so I can respond to the important pieces of your issues. Marauders are perfectly fine the way they are. This is a problem you are having as well as other Marauders who just aren't as prepared to play a class like this. I am going to list the same list you did and then comment on them 1 by 1. Also I will be speaking from either pvP or Boss encounters only since trash should never be considered when choosing a spec or talents. 1. force charge - Simple, use this anytime you are knocked back, start a fight or need additional rage. This is not spammed simply because it is on a cooldown.(This is what rotations are for. Lots of things to do but in an order.) 2. smash - Unless you are Rage(if you are, quit playing the class) this is a waste of rage. Plenty of other Rage dumps. 3. assault - Building Rage when other rage builders are on CD ie. Force Leap, Battering Assault, again not spammed. 4. vivious slash - Used very very seldom. The ONLY time I use it is if Annihilate doesn't finish the cooldown of Rupture. Otherwise, plenty of other ways to spend Rage more effectively. 5. battering assault - Used only when Rage is extremely low, Force Charge is on CD or at the beginning of your rotation, otherwise seldom used considering there is a CD. 6. deadly saber - Used whenever it's up, is on a CD so again a good Marauder has this worked into his rotation. If you find yourself "forgetting" to use this? Bad player, not class. This is also NOT on the Global Cooldown so it can be used at the same time as anything else. For instance I use it with Force Leap and Rupture most of the time, but it can be used at the exact same time as anything else you hit, so no excuse for this one. 7. rupture - On a CD, part of the rotation. Lasts 6 seconds. As a Marauder(a Good one) you should be working on finishing the CD on this during any filler situations ie Annihilate didn't finish it, DS is on the target, Rupture is on the target, Annihilate is on CD as well as Ravage. This is when you use Vicious Slash. This should be the ONLY time you use Vicsious Slash. 8. annihilate - On a CD that changes, should be used the second its available, with 1 exception. If Rupture is off cooldown, or will be in a very very shot period, use Rupture first, then Annihlate. Otherwise if it's ready, use it. 9. ravage - On a very long CD, but is used once DoTs are rolling and on CD and Annihilate is also on CD. 10. vicious throw - Used only on enemies under 30% HP. This one is easy. Use it when its ready over anything else. Marauders have a rotation until 30% then it's FCFS(First come first serve) because of this ability being on such a short cooldown. now this wouldnt be that bad if it would be everything we use but there is also 11. berserk - Berserk is what I would call the Fury dump for Annihilation. 6% of all party member's HP every 15-20 seconds is unbelievable and a HUGE help to the healers in PvE, and if used properly in PvP can make people think your cheating(Use immediatly after applying Deadly Saber and Rupture to heal yourself for an insane amount) 12. predation - Predation is what I would call the Fury dump for Carnage. 10% Defense to all party members and an incredible run speed boost during combat make for an extremely tough crew to handle in Huttball mostly, but in all WZ's really since it can be used very often. For Annihilation, using this outside of at the beginning of a match or while carrying the ball, Berserk takes priority. 13. bloodthirst - This is on a 5 minute CD, and since you can use Frenzy I dont see this as another choice that needs to be made. If you have 30 stacks of Fury? Pop this if its up, always. If you dont have 30 stacks of Fury and you would like to use this? Pop Frenzy and use it. Pretty simple. next we could use 14. frenzy to use the 3 skills above - Marauders build Fury at an incredible rate. Frenzy is not something that is constantly watched so it can be used. This is good to use at the beginning of a WZ to have a speed advantage or to pop Bloodthirst to have a DPS and Healing increase, otherwise use it when its available and you have no Fury. but there is more 15. obfuscate - Not used in PvE as it won't work on Bosses, and this is also not on the Global Cooldown so it can be used at the exact same time as any other ability. Easy mode. 16. deadly throw - This is used for PvP mostly, since Bosses are not affected by the 20% Healing Debuff. There are better fillers for dumping Rage in PvE. PvP it's used 2 different ways. As Annihilation I use it on CD since 20% less healing is 20% less work I have to do to kill someone, and Carnage as a root. 17. unleash - Used more in PvP then PvE however I find myself using it in PvE when ive just popped all my CD's and time is a wasting if im stunned so ill pop it to take advantage of the CD's I just popped. In PvP, simple, use it if you are stunned and will die if you don't use it. We only have 1 get out of jail free card for stuns which is why I use it wisely. 18. disruption - Used primarily in PvP since this will not work on bosses. Again, not a part of the Global Cool Down, so can be used at any time. This does not require a choice of either use this or that. or even 19. crippling slash in pvp - As Annihilation I have removed this from my bars since Rupture does the same thing. As Carnage you have several roots at your fingertips, with Deadly Throw and Ravage as well as Force Choke that it's not needed as much, plus with being able to use Predation quite often you are extremely difficult to kite. but what about 20. disable droid - Rarely used, never used in PvP. and dont forget our def skills 21. cloak of pain - Long CD, only used when being double teamed.(I personally hardly ever use this in a 1v1 fight unless I know the person im facing is very skilled.) 22. saber ward - Long CD, basically an oh crap button. Again, not something you have to keep an eye on at all times. A good Marauder knows when he uses things like this and you will know when its ready again, even without taking a look. 23. undying rage - Fairly long Cooldown, made shorter by the 2 set PvP bonus but very situational. Useful when being teamed up on, or close to dying while running the Huttball, or close to dying period. A good Marauder can use this sparingly if they know how to survive by using their other abilities. Very many times I will use Force Camo and get to a health pot or LoS someone before im force to use Undying Rage. 24. force cloak - I'm assuming you mean Force Camoflauge here, and again, this is on a long CD. Also this is situational and should be ready whenever you need it. Using the excuse of having to watch everything on your bar is just screaming that you are basically a button masher. Knowing what your skills are and when the correct time to use them is what makes you good. Not the amount of abilities you have and how often you use them. Using an ability when you shouldn't be can make you feel like you're doing SO much all the time when in reality if you use them correctly and only when needed you will find yourself using only core abilities 95% of the time. oh but wait we still have ... 25. retaliation - Never use it, useless. 26. force scream - I use this as a filler for Rage since it does good damage and has a range. Better filler than Vicious Slash, Retaliate or Smash by a longshot. 27. force choke - This is not used on Bosses because it wont work, so PvP is the only use here. I use this situationally as well. It has a decently long CD so you wont be watching for it constantly. I use this on primarily on people who have just used their biggest defensive ability, ie Undying Rage for Marauders basically just to outlast it while not wasting Rage when it won't hurt them anyway. I also use this on Operatives or other classes that can cleanse my bleeds immediately after applying them so the Bleeds tic for quite a bit before they can work on cleansing them. If they use their ability to pop out of Force Choke it's still a win because they have used their get out of jail free card. 28. pommel strike - Don't use it, useless against bosses since you can't stun them and cannot be used on other players. 29. savage kick - Don't use it, useless against bosses since you can't stun them and cannot be used on other players. 30. intimidating roar - Situational again and on a long CD. Used most effectively in Huttball when either you or someone else is running the ball and a crowd of enemies are closing in on you/them. Also effective to use when you are about to score to eliminate a possible last second stun or knockback. Useless on Bosses. Long story short, since I refuse to actually go back to see what is actually used all the time, you don't use 30 abilites ALL the time. You use a couple abilities ALL the time and the rest are very situational. I find that Marauder is an absolute blast to play and I never have the feeling of "this is just too complicated, I feel like i'm missing out on the fullness of this class because I don't use every ability all the time". Relax. Use your rotation, and fillers properly and you won't feel like this. I have said this before and i'll say it again: Marauder: Either people get it, and are unstoppable rage monsters or they don't get it and feel like the class needs overhauled in order for them to be played properly. I will leave you with a quote that sums up how well I play this class and forgive me for not screenshotting this, but you can whisper Black'Betty on Canderous Ordo anytime for them to confirm they said this. "Whisper from Black'Betty: OMG I'm so glad im on your team this time...you are impossible to kite and you hit like a drunk step-father". If anyone has a logical question or wants to be a better Marauder feel free to pick my brain. I'm not saying im the best, but I feel extremely comfortable with the class, how it works and what makes it work the best.

You guys seriously need to just read the topic of almost every single post in this forum. I can try to sum it up for you with the following: Ok BW, last chance or i'm gone! *** is going on here??? This game is failing badly This is why this game won't last ______ Cancelled sub today, here is why _______ Yet ANOTHER bug, this game is still in Beta!! I mean, seriously people. What the hell is wrong with all of you? This is a great game. Period. I have played competitive MMO's since FFXI launch back in 2003 and I have either played or tried most MMO's since then. I played FFXI for 5+years and WoW since TBC launched until this game launched. I am having an absolute blast and so is every person I play with. Does the game have a few things it needs to be perfect? Absolutly. What game doesnt? I can guarantee one thing, every single person whining an complaining in these forums would have never EVER lasted a week in FFXI. I can see the title's for the forums for that game now: What do you mean I can't level solo?!?!?! Are you kidding??? I lose XP when I die? AND DE-LEVEL???? Cancelling sub today...no hearthstone?? Who on earth would play a game this huge with NO mounts? No instances? You mean the game DOESN'T revolve around me and the time I can play??? 18-36 hour respawn timer for Argus...how can I compete??? Japanese players have Notorious Monster Bots, I can't claim anything, cancelling sub! Sounds kind of stupid doesnt it? Well guess what? These are ALL true statements! This was how the game was played and if you didn't like it? You quit. You didn't complain like a 7 year old on forums designed for something far different then what's taking place here. Reading forum posts here remind me of watching an episode of Paris Hilton's reality show. "OMG I have to sleep in a regular bed???" Get over yourselves. The same people complaining about the game are the same people who don't have guilds or friends to do things with. Gee, I wonder why. Couldn't be because you are all complainers and whining brats could it? I mean I love hanging around people like that, who doesn't?? Grow the hell up. Like the fact that you have a game to even complain about. I'd hate to see a forum for people who live in third world countries after reading this forum.

Ok, here's the deal. Marauder's are one of, if not, THE hardest class to master. That being said, the few people who do master this class are incredibly difficult to handle, if not impossible. Every class has their bane though, and Marauder is no exception. An Operative with full CD's will destroy a Marauder before he can even engage in the fight. Powertechs that are well played will 9 times out of 10 handle a Marauder pretty easily too. The problem with these kinds of posts is that there are simply a million variables that can be present during your encounter(s) with these Marauders. For example: You have just blown all your CD's and your heat/energy is maxed because of the person you just fought and Mr Marauder jumps on you with full CD's and a bar full of Rage. This is going to turn out very very badly for just about every single class and the person sitting behind the keyboard of that class simply because it's not a fair fight from the start. This happens. It's Warzone's, group PvP. This does and will continue to happen. If you want 100% fairness at all times, duel people. You started fighting someone you know you can win against and bam a Marauder jumps you, causing you to die in seconds. This is not the Marauder's fault. This is what happens in WZ's. People group on other people. You and a friend decide to take on a Marauder. He kills both of you. This also happens. A well played Marauder can be a master of survival. It's your fault if you let him pop undying rage and continue to beat on you. The point is, be prepared to kill a well played Marauder twice in order to actually kill him. We have without a doubt the lowest HP in the game considering. A Marauder is full BM gear with every Endurance Datacron as well as the +10 all stats Datacron has a whopping 15750 HP. Marauder's also do not have a single stun that allows us to beat on the enemy while they are stunned. We have Force Choke, which ticks for absolute crap and the AoE stun that if they take any damage they come right out of it. We do not have an form of knockback and are very prone to them. We have 1 way to remove ourselves from a root/controlling effect. Most classes have several. This is more of an I am constantly getting outplayed by this class because I have yet to determine a good way to beat them type of post then anything. If you play a Marauder then you should know how to beat one. I surely do. There is also this thing that games have that's called balance. Yes I said it. While each class has that one class they cannot beat, that class also has one of those classes for them as well. There is no king of the jungle as far as I can tell.

Basically you want to make sure Blood Frenzy is active for the guaranteed crit on your next Force Scream, once thats active you will use Gore>Force Scream>Ravage. This combo will do at least 5k more damage with Gore up then with Gore down. For those of you saying you don't notice it, obviously don't know how it works. I have seen Force Scream hit for 2700 crit w/o Gore and I have seen it well over 4000 with Gore. I have also seen the last hit from Ravage do over 3500 with Gore up as well. Gore makes a HUGE difference if used correctly. Its a set up move. You dont just use it because its ready to use. You use it when other factors are present, ie Blood Frenzy/Execute. You have 3 things you always want to check for before using Gore. 1. Is Blood Frenzy active? 2. Is Ravage up? 3. Do I have enough Rage to complete this cycle of Gore>Force Scream? If you answer no to: 1. Then wait. Useless to use Gore when this isnt active, 2. This is ok, because you can still use Gore>FS>Massacre x2 which is = to Ravage(The reason you don't use Massacre OVER Ravage is that Ravage does not cost any Rage.) 3. Again, dont use it. If you have to add an Assault in there you are wasting a global cooldown and will not be able to finish your rotation with Gore active, it will simply fall off as you start Ravage causing a huge loss in damage. Gore seems like a simple mechanic, but it is, in fact not simple at all. It takes a lot of practice to be effective with it.

Yep, just 6%. Do you know how much crit rating you would need to add to your current gear to get 6% more crit? Roughly 200. So if you had a piece of gear that came with +200 crit rating you'd just pass it up for a piece that has like an evasion boost or a simple utility of some kind? 6% is a CRAP load, especially considering that one of our MOST potent attacks is force related in Deadly Throw. 6% more of a chance that you do more damage, 6% more of a chance that you are healing yourself...I mean the list goes on and on and on. I don't understand people NOT getting it.

that's rich. So instead of winning games we should focus on being awesome at 1v1ing random bads in a warzone. if you know what you're doing you should have berserk/predation available to you almost all the time, and if you're about to die you're going to pop berserk instead of predation to get away? yikes. Why does everyone here think that Huttball is the only Warzone we have in this game? I think healing my teamates during a hectic Voidstar or a crazy fight to take one of the turrets in CW far outweighs an ability that is useful for one WZ. Yes running faster between Turrets is good too, but not as good as 6% HP back to everyone in my group every 15 seconds or so. Please remember, this game has 3 WZ's in it and you cant pick the one you want. You go with the spec that has the MOST utility, and being able to provide extra heals, to me anyway, is way more important then running fast for a few seconds.

They just buffed the annihilation tree. Why on earth would they nerf it?

If it were Kinetic, or Energy damage it would say that it was Kinetic or Energy damage. That's basic stuff there. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that if it says it, it is it. If it doesnt say it? Its not it. I am having a hard time understanding why you feel the need to believe that it HAS to be one or the other when it is neither.

Again, I think it is you that is confused here. If you read the tooltip for Smash it reads: Smashes up to 5 enemies within 5 meters dealing 1117-1181 KINETIC Damage. Also stuns weak and standard targets for 1.5 seconds. Now let's read Annihilate: Strikes the target with both lightsabers for 2414-2890 WEAPON DAMAGE. Im not going to write the rest there, but you get my point. Weapon Damage is not Force related. It is not Kinetic damage, because Kinetic damage is force damage. It is the simplest form of damage we can do. Weapon damage, ie white damage. It is not a melee attack that does kinetic damage. It is a melee attack that does weapon damage. There is so much bad information going around on these forums its absolutely insane. Please, for the love of god, if you do not know what you're talking about, or are too lazy to go to a skill calculator to read the tooltip before posting your guesswork here? Please stop posting. Wrong information is what makes people hate their class and hate the game. Someone might read what you said and think oh Annihilate will benefit from all of this force related stats and it will NOT.