Mara Jade

[Captain_Zone]

I think everyone has a good reason to hate Travis, for me its her horrendous butching of Boba Fett and her killing off of my all time favorite EU charecter:Admiral Gilad Pellaeon (Im still waiting for Tahri to get her just deserts, sadly its looking like that is never going to happen. I DEMAND JUSTICE!!).

 

While i appreaciate that she tryed to push the EU away from the current Jedi are the be all end all of star wars thing thats been going on for the past few years she did it all wrong, by trying to turn the already sufficently awsome Madalorians into some kind of OP gods. and conviceing herself that the jedi are actually the villians. Oh and that whole buthering of every jedi she has ever writtens charecter thing. (see the new novel Shadow Games for how to do this kind of thing right, or better yet the old X-wing sereis)

 

Stackpole's X-Wing series is pure gold. That's Star Wars the way it should always be written, imho.

[jmchris]

I haven't read anything past NJO, but as I understand it, Jaina suddenly turning incompetent is more a result Karen Traviss' hatred of Jedi and fetishization of Mandalorians. In Traviss' mind, Jaina Solo, being a Jedi, can't even tie her shoes right unless she's trained by a Mandalorian.

 

This isn't true?

[Celcionna]

I read that Mara was a servant of the Empire before she met Luke...is that true? She had something to do with the Emperor or something like that.

[Captain_Zone]

I read that Mara was a servant of the Empire before she met Luke...is that true? She had something to do with the Emperor or something like that.

 

She was The Emperor's Hand. Her final command from Palpatine was "Kill Luke Skywalker" which she ended up fulfilling by killing Luke's clone. That satisfied The Last Command.

[Rayla_Felana]

This isn't true?

 

It is absolutely true.

[Aximand]

It is absolutely true.

 

Like Rayla said. Its absolutely true.

 

Traviss made it so that Jaina, the woman that flew X-Wings against Yuuzhan Vong Coral Skippers and larger ships with extreme success needed to be taught how to use a helmet microphone by a child.

 

She made Jaina, the woman who fought Yuuzhan Vong warriors with weapons and armor that were completely impervious to Lightsabers and couldn't be sensed through the Force with great success, not able to fight a regular human who had weapons and armor that were completely impervious to Lightsabers, and suddenly had a technique that would make them hide in the Force. Yea, apparently Traviss' Mandalorians can completely hide themselves from Force Sensitives now. Who knew?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Aximand

[Wolfninjajedi]

Like Rayla said. Its absolutely true.

 

Traviss made it so that Jaina, the woman that flew X-Wings against Yuuzhan Vong Coral Skippers and larger ships with extreme success needed to be taught how to use a helmet microphone by a child.

 

She made Jaina, the woman who fought Yuuzhan Vong warriors with weapons and armor that were completely impervious to Lightsabers and couldn't be sensed through the Force with great effect, not able to fight a regular human who had weapons and armor that were completely impervious to Lightsabers, and suddenly had a technique that would make them hide in the Force. Yea, apparently Traviss' Mandalorians can completely hide themselves from Force Sensitives now. Who knew?

 

Not to mention what she did with Luke...

[Aximand]

Not to mention what she did with Luke...

 

In Traviss' scene of Jaina learning to fight like a "Mandalorian" (I don't consider Traviss' hippy farmer mercenaries to be real Mandalorians), Jaina got her *** beat ruthlessly.

 

In reality land, where people without huge biases to Force Users live, it most likely would have ended with Jaina beating the guy teaching her like a redheaded step child.

 

And then there's the whole thing of Luke suddenly thinking in Mando'a, a "language" that, to my knowledge, he never even bothered to learn.

 

God I hate that woman!

 

Sorry. I'm cool now, its all good. Its good, breath Axi, breath.

 

She just makes me nerd rage almost as hard as Matt Ward from Games Workshop.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Aximand

[Wolfninjajedi]

In Traviss' scene of Jaina learning to fight like a "Mandalorian" (I don't consider Traviss' hippy farmer mercenaries to be real Mandalorians), Jaina got her *** beat ruthlessly.

 

In reality land, where people without huge biases to Force Users live, it most likely would have ended with Jaina beating the guy teaching her like a redheaded step child.

 

And then there's the whole thing of Luke suddenly thinking in Mando'a, a "language" that, to my knowledge, he never even bothered to learn.

 

God I hate that woman!

 

Sorry. I'm cool now, its all good. Its good, breath Axi, breath.

 

She just makes me nerd rage almost as hard as Matt Ward from Games Workshop.

 

Thats another thing that confuses me....why would a jedi bother to learn to fight like a mandalorian, when they go through their own unarmed combat?...Hell their lightsaber combat, could be applied to fighting unarmed.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aximand]

Thats another thing that confuses me....why would a jedi bother to learn to fight like a mandalorian, when they go through their own unarmed combat?...Hell their lightsaber combat, could be applied to fighting unarmed last I checked Obi-Wan kicked Jango's *** on kamino.

 

Because in Traviss land the only thing that could possibly stand a chance against Jacen is a Mandalorian. Hell, they let him live because they didn't want Solo after them!

 

RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE!

 

Its alright, I'm good after that little rage fit.

 

Quite honestly, that whole series would have made way more sense if the Mandalorians were never even mentioned, but since they got Karen Traviss on board with it, they got the Suedalorians as well.

 

I need to go find a kitten to strangle, my nerd rage has almost overcome me and turned me into a squeaky voiced pimply version of the Hulk.

[Captain_Zone]

In Traviss' scene of Jaina learning to fight like a "Mandalorian" (I don't consider Traviss' hippy farmer mercenaries to be real Mandalorians), Jaina got her *** beat ruthlessly.

 

In reality land, where people without huge biases to Force Users live, it most likely would have ended with Jaina beating the guy teaching her like a redheaded step child.

 

And then there's the whole thing of Luke suddenly thinking in Mando'a, a "language" that, to my knowledge, he never even bothered to learn.

 

God I hate that woman!

 

Sorry. I'm cool now, its all good. Its good, breath Axi, breath.

 

She just makes me nerd rage almost as hard as Matt Ward from Games Workshop.

 

My nerd rage goes through the roof when I hear of her atrocities... Is there a way to bring her up on Star Warcrimes charges??? o0

[Aximand]

My nerd rage goes through the roof when I hear of her atrocities... Is there a way to bring her up on Star Warcrimes charges??? o0

 

She got fired, which is lulzy enough to make me feel a bit better. Now if only she could get retconned out of existence.

[Chaac]

I'm kind of 50/50 with Mara's death. I loved Mara from the first moment I read her in Heir and was more than a little excited when she would pop up after that. I distinctly remember being really eager to carry on the EU when I finished Last Command so that I could read more of her and when she arrived at the Praxeum to be trained I was so excited (I think I was about 12 at the time) that I rang up my dad who was in a busy meeting and blabbered for five minutes about her before promptly being shouted at for bothering him with "that bloody Star Wars" and having the phone slammed down on me.

 

By the point that she was killed off though I wasn't nearly as gutted as I would have expected to be since the various ways she had been written had driven away a lot of what I liked about her. In fact, I think by this point I was more worried when Saba went with Ben and Luke to confront Jacen that she might die than I was when Mara went after him solo.

 

Reading her actual death scene I felt parts were done well whilst others were done terribly. I liked the way in which she really flew at Jacen and unleashed some of the Hand that was still in her and I enjoyed seeing Jacen being really pushed around for the first time in a while, but at the same time I was really disappointed that KT had her character go off after Jacen alone. Mara going after him by herself just really didn't fit with the character I knew. When you think back to DFR she immediately sought out the help of the person she most despised when Karrde was captured knowing that she would need help with what she was about to do. This to me set her up as a character who could accept when her own skills might not be enough and be sensible enough to ask for help when it's needed, however in Sacrifice she does exactly the opposite to this and assumes from the get go that she has enough power and skills to take out her nephew, despite being fully aware of just how powerful he already was at the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war and how much more power he has gained since. You can see where KT has tried to explain this change to her character in just how she frequently references her need to protect Ben, but while I could certainly see it being enough to motivate her to go after Jacen it doesn't seem powerful enough to make her not use every asset she can to defeat him which in this instance would include taking Luke with her.

 

I guess overall though I was less dissapointed with Mara's death then I have been with the high number of new and interesting Jedi from NJO, LOTF and FOTJ who have appear and seem like they could make for great new characters only to be killed off soon after. Characters such as Tresina Lobi, Natua Wan, Kenth Hamner and

Bazel Warv

die far too often, some of them without having the chance to really shine.

 

Pretty pointless ramblings (it's late and I'm tired ) but my main point was, I wasn't too pained with Mara's death in the end for various reasons, but it could have been done a bit better and still moved the story in the direction they wanted it to go.

[Captain_Zone]

She got fired, which is lulzy enough to make me feel a bit better. Now if only she could get retconned out of existence.

 

Amen, brother. Amen. Retcon her gone, declare all of her "books" (and I use that term loosely for her garbage) heresy and NOT in continuity!

 

/rant over.

[Lurkz]

As far as I'm concerned my head-canon has already retconned KT's crap out of the EU. (also, my personal EU ends before LotF and then skips straight to the Legacy comics)

[Captain_Zone]

As far as I'm concerned my head-canon has already retconned KT's crap out of the EU. (also, my personal EU ends before LotF and then skips straight to the Legacy comics)

 

Thumbs up to the Legacy comics. Where the Skywalker isn't a goody two shoes, and Darth Talon <3 mmmmmm

[Faefrost]

IMO, Karen Travis is a stain on Star Wars, and if they can figure out a way to say "This never happened due to the sheer insanity of the author and the fact that she's a total *****, we're bringing Mara back!" That would be cool.

 

That's actually sort of easy for Lucas to do. Since the very first book was ever published Lucas has always said that while he tries to more or less respect the books continuity, what appears on screen is the only true cannon and ALWAYS has the option of supercecing any published book or sourcebook or comic, etc. ie Star Wars, ESB, RotJ, TPM, AoTC, RotS and now the Clone Wars series.

 

The way Lucas fixes or does away with all of this. Simple. Stage the next animated series (and yeah, I suspect the next thing that he does will be another animated series. Too much success and too much ease of production in creating his worlds in making the Clone Wars for him to ever go back to all that messy live action filming again) anyway, stage the next series either in the period between RoTS and Star Wars, or in that early "new Republic" period, where he can introduce the characters that he wants, how he wants them. Heck he can then remake Mandalore and any stories of Mandalorians exactly how he prefers (and further turn Ms Travis into a raving nutcase). And all he has to do is follow the threads that he already laid out in TCW (you know those ones that already publicly pissed her off).

 

A better question would be why Lucasfilm does not have a few strongly phrased words with the editors that keep allowing these sorts of things to happen?

[Captain_Zone]

That's actually sort of easy for Lucas to do. Since the very first book was ever published Lucas has always said that while he tries to more or less respect the books continuity, what appears on screen is the only true cannon and ALWAYS has the option of supercecing any published book or sourcebook or comic, etc. ie Star Wars, ESB, RotJ, TPM, AoTC, RotS and now the Clone Wars series.

 

The way Lucas fixes or does away with all of this. Simple. Stage the next animated series (and yeah, I suspect the next thing that he does will be another animated series. Too much success and too much ease of production in creating his worlds in making the Clone Wars for him to ever go back to all that messy live action filming again) anyway, stage the next series either in the period between RoTS and Star Wars, or in that early "new Republic" period, where he can introduce the characters that he wants, how he wants them. Heck he can then remake Mandalore and any stories of Mandalorians exactly how he prefers (and further turn Ms Travis into a raving nutcase). And all he has to do is follow the threads that he already laid out in TCW (you know those ones that already publicly pissed her off).

 

A better question would be why Lucasfilm does not have a few strongly phrased words with the editors that keep allowing these sorts of things to happen?

 

Actually, he's doing a live action TV series set between RotS and ANH. It sounds good, and Boba Fett is reported to be one of the main characters.

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/01/11/star-wars-live-action-tv-series/

Edited March 16, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Brutanic]

Only read the first page of the thread so forgive me if this post is completely irrelevant.

 

You know I was thinking about the exact same thing a couple of days ago, I still think It was one of the worst decesions Lucasfilm has ever made. The Idea was actually pitched by Karen herself - which is all the more reason why I despise the woman - and she felt "obliged" to write the scene.

[Brutanic]

The thing that probably upsetted me most about Maras death, was that it poorly written, Karen Traviss writings have made me rage to the point of overload, but that scene in particular drove me crazy. Edited March 16, 2012 by Brutanic

[Brutanic]

That's okay. . . I don't really plan to, since I refuse to read Karen Traviss' works. If I do, I'l definitely be skipping Legacy of the Force. I've heard enough about that I just have no interest in reading it.

 

If only I had that privilege...

[Toonimator]

Actually, he's doing a live action TV series set between RotS and ANH. It sounds good, and Boba Fett is reported to be one of the main characters.

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/01/11/star-wars-live-action-tv-series/

...and it's delayed forever, because they were thinking each of those 50 scripts would cost ridiculous amounts of money to make (like, Star Wars movie budgets, I think).

 

Which really just says "We don't know how to make awesome things for less money like we did back in 1976". Or look at shows like Battlestar Galactica, Farscape; they were both considered ridiculously expensive but they were made for pennies compared to the supposed required budgets of 'SW: Underworld'.

 

Animation would solve a lot of problems; granted, it'd have its own problems (idiot adults not taking it seriously because it's a cartoon, reuse of background characters leading to a limited diversity in the population of the various worlds visited, and more) but it might be easier and far, far cheaper overall to just animate the show, or animate a new show.

 

I'd worry about a post-ROTJ show with Lucas involved, as he may dump a lot of the stuff I enjoyed in the post-ROTJ EU in addition to Traviss' Mandalorians-are-gods campaign, like Mara & Ben Skywalker; his own idea was Luke just trains Leia's children and he stays single and never passes on the Skywalker name, which is weak... but of course that's recent-Lucas, the guy who decided to make the Saga all about Vader, diminishing Luke's importance in the originals.

[priest]

As far as I'm concerned my head-canon has already retconned KT's crap out of the EU. (also, my personal EU ends before LotF and then skips straight to the Legacy comics)

 

Exactly what I think. I have to say it again because it crystallized WHY I think that no Star Wars main character should die. It's not that I think that they're not immortal, its because Star Wars is a western, where the good guys always ride into the sunset.

[Captain_Zone]

Exactly what I think. I have to say it again because it crystallized WHY I think that no Star Wars main character should die. It's not that I think that they're not immortal, its because Star Wars is a western, where the good guys always ride into the sunset.

 

Sir, that is the best way to put it that I have ever heard or seen. Although, Vector Prime was amazing, and you can't get much more heroic in the way Chewie went out. R.A. Salvatore did a great job, there. You know in every western a good guy must fall. It was Chewie's time, and he went out like a champ should.

[RaHarmakis]

Han Solo, I don't see as being able to do as much as he can at his age. He is old. He does not have the force to support him. I can see very soon him dying a heroic death. Han Solo dying of old age just doesn't cut it for me.

 

Han is the only one that appears to be getting older in the new novels. I really liked the way they had him handle Chewies death.

 

As for a good end for Han.... I picture a "Grand Turino" style end for Han when I picture it. A grumpy old fighter that outlived everyone that he loved using his death to get one last win over the bad guys.