Mara Jade

[Tuscad]

You would have thought the obvious way to differentiate them would be to have one of them alive and one of them dead.

 

I would have thought that anyone that couldn't tell the difference between the two should have just got the hell out.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Tuscad

[priest]

Indeed. So, personal canon, ABY-EU ends where LotF starts? Yes/Yes? That's why the Legacy comics don't bother me, they're so far after the books that it'd be silly to expect "Oh, all the main characters never died!" But at least (assuming you don't have something like LotF telling you otherwise) you could assume they all either died of old age or really awesomely.

 

Yeah. I'm actually backing my cannon all the way back to pre NJO. I think that the Yuuzhan Vong were interesting...but meh.

 

Personally, IF I were God. Thrawn wouldn't have died. He would have suceeded in sacking Corsucant and deposed the New Republic. It would have sent them into hiding again. I want to see the New Order in power. At the very least, the Empire is a MUCH better foil for Our Heroes, and my opinion is that they sort of wane being at the top of the pyramid.

 

I would love to see what Thrawn would have done with the Galaxy.

 

Quick- Grand Admiral Thrawn or Admiral Adama?

 

GO!

[Lurkz]

Thrawn, no doubt.

 

And yeah, the New Order Empire would have been fascinating to see in action. I'm not even sure it would have been a bad thing for the people of the galaxy. Thrawn wasn't exactly the sadistic "I want to blow up planets to make my point" kind of guy. He just wanted order and a common government.

 

Looking at the NR then GFFA... I'm not sure he was wrong either.

[Toonimator]

Thrawn, no doubt.

 

And yeah, the New Order Empire would have been fascinating to see in action. I'm not even sure it would have been a bad thing for the people of the galaxy. Thrawn wasn't exactly the sadistic "I want to blow up planets to make my point" kind of guy. He just wanted order and a common government.

 

Looking at the NR then GFFA... I'm not sure he was wrong either.

The problem was that so many of the OTHER warlords, moffs, admirals, bureaucrats, etc in the Empire were hardline supporters of many of Palpatine's methods & beliefs. Even under Pellaeon (before the treaty and incorporation/absorption of the Empire of the Hand), non-humans were still largely second-class citizens I think, for awhile anyway. It was getting better, which is why by the time the Hand of Thrawn came around and Pellaeon met with the New Republic, there really were a lot of worlds saying "F this" to the NR and petitioning to join the Imperial Remnant.

 

Post-treaty, though, with the Hand's influence in the mix, the Empire was finally evolving into something different. Not having read any of LOTF, or beyond the first book of FOTJ, I'm not sure what that 'something different' really was. My only post-NJO reference is really LEGACY, where Fel's Empire was a lot better in general, but still suffered from the legacy of the human-dominated Empire of old thanks to guys like Morlish Veed. But overall, it was better, and they had some pretty cool Jedi working for 'em. As fanboy as the Imperial Knight design was (all about looking cool, like Maul and Boba Fett), it...well, it was cool. It was a nice blend of Imperialness with the black and the red (appropriate for the group serving as the Emperor's royal guard) and armor, but some nice Jedi touches with the capes, hoods, and hanging 'skirt' pieces. The uniform silver-bladed sabers were pretty great, too. I really wanted Ostrander to delve more into the IKs' history.

 

Anyhow... I liked a lot of what went on in NJOl, but I can't help but wonder at where the EU would've gone had they followed Zahn's lead from the HoT duology.

[Tuscad]

At least there is still a possibility of Thrawn coming back as a clone.

[BrandonSM]

I can write a list of why KT is one of the worst authors OF ALL TIME.

 

Killing Importants, Making the Jedi seem evil, Making the Mando's more important than they really should have been, etc.

[Lurkz]

I can write a list of why KT is one of the worst authors OF ALL TIME.

 

Killing Importants, Making the Jedi seem evil, Making the Mando's more important than they really should have been, etc.

 

The thing that got me was that she started out seeming totally sane. The Republic Commando books are quite good. Then it just kinda went downhill from there.

[kirorx]

The all have to die some time

[Tuscad]

The all have to die some time

 

^This is how I feel. I would rather them die in battle then of inaction.

[Aximand]

The thing that got me was that she started out seeming totally sane. The Republic Commando books are quite good. Then it just kinda went downhill from there.

 

From what I heard the first Republic Commando book was very good, then after that it just got worse and worse until people were either loving it (fandalorians) or going "dubya tee eff?" (everyone else).

[RobNightfall]

The thing that got me was that she started out seeming totally sane. The Republic Commando books are quite good. Then it just kinda went downhill from there.

 

The jedi weren't made to seem evil, but their selfishness and willingness to impose their morality on others was highlighted. The jedi don't always choose to do what they do because they want to be moral beings, they just don't want to end up as cackling maniacs in rotating chairs who firmly believe that the destruction of a world is a good policy tool. Also, if you read her bio, you'll realize that Karen Traviss was an actual soldier. The tips she had the instructors giving the commandos were based on IRL military training. The way the jedi do things gets normal people killed, and it's pretty obvious that they don't get it.

As for killing Mara, that wasn't just her decision. Much like R.A. Salvatore killing Chewie, it was a team decision made by all of the authors of the series and Lucasbooks editorial staff.

Stop, take a breath, and realize that Karen Traviss doesn't hate you, doesn't care about you, doesn't know you exist, and is actually optimistic enough to think that book fans aren't rabid and can think.

[RobNightfall]

I can write a list of why KT is one of the worst authors OF ALL TIME.

 

Killing Importants, Making the Jedi seem evil, Making the Mando's more important than they really should have been, etc.

 

As for making mandos "more important" she didn't do that, the fans did. The reason people enjoyed the series was because she gave them heroes that were human, with human emotions and obstacles. It's the same reason Batman is popular: he isn't invulnerable, he doesn't have a big red S on his chest (or brown robes and a light stick proclaiming damn near the same thing), and he exceeds human limitations through training and equipment. He's much, much closer to being real. She also did a good job pointing out the philosophical and practical limitations of the way the jedi did things by showing how their approach to problem solving could fail in the real world.

Karen Traviss did to Star Wars what Glen Cook did to fantasy fiction, she took it from mythic Lord of the Rings levels down to real people levels, and she gained a bunch of fans for doing so. That's why the mandos suddenly became important. There was a group of fans who didn't even realize they were dying for real people to be able to be the heroes in Star Wars and once they found those heroes they loved them...kind of obsessively, to the point of learning make believe languages, and stuff.

[Aximand]

The jedi weren't made to seem evil, but their selfishness and willingness to impose their morality on others was highlighted. The jedi don't always choose to do what they do because they want to be moral beings, they just don't want to end up as cackling maniacs in rotating chairs who firmly believe that the destruction of a world is a good policy tool. Also, if you read her bio, you'll realize that Karen Traviss was an actual soldier. The tips she had the instructors giving the commandos were based on IRL military training. The way the jedi do things gets normal people killed, and it's pretty obvious that they don't get it.

As for killing Mara, that wasn't just her decision. Much like R.A. Salvatore killing Chewie, it was a team decision made by all of the authors of the series and Lucasbooks editorial staff.

Stop, take a breath, and realize that Karen Traviss doesn't hate you, doesn't care about you, doesn't know you exist, and is actually optimistic enough to think that book fans aren't rabid and can think.

 

So, giving up almost all worldly possessions, not being able to have a family without being cast out of the order, not wanting other people to partake in violence instead of talking things through and devoting your life to helping the needy and preventing wars that could kill millions of beings... is a bad thing?

 

Oh, and she exaggerates her military experience, she was a base journalist, that's it.

 

Actually, no, that was a Traviss decision, she actually threatened to stop writing the series if she didn't get her way in killing Mara.

 

Talifan. That's what she calls her critics. Yes, she compares people that criticize her writings legitimately to the Taliban. She's so mature.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Aximand

[Esauru]

Wow...

 

 

So I'm at work now and reading the forums and came across this whole junk of things about Mara Jade and the writer KT.

 

Personally I've read Legacy, really though the whole story feels ughh.. Cade Skywalker

was ugghh.. But is this the same Legacy as LOTF? I'm speaking of the Legacy Comics that

is. Also, I really wanna thank you guys for giving me insight on NJO and how I would not

even bother touching it. I know the base idea of what's going on but I guess I really

don't wanna go further making purchases to get this kind of trash.

 

Lastly, I want to ask, who created Celeste Morne? A character surviving from..

PRE SWTOR all the way til Cade Skywalker's era? Even with the all the reasons why

she should be alive, it all feels so far-fetched, but that is just my humble opinion.

[ErikModi]

Legacy is the comic series by Dark Horse set 150 years ABY.

 

Legacy of the Force is the novel series set some 30ish ABY.

 

Some people abbreviate Legacy of the Force as Legacy. They should stop.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Celeste_Morne

[priest]

The all have to die some time

 

Why? MASH lasted 3x longer than the actual Korean War.

[priest]

The problem was that so many of the OTHER warlords, moffs, admirals, bureaucrats, etc in the Empire were hardline supporters of many of Palpatine's methods & beliefs. Even under Pellaeon (before the treaty and incorporation/absorption of the Empire of the Hand), non-humans were still largely second-class citizens I think, for awhile anyway. It was getting better, which is why by the time the Hand of Thrawn came around and Pellaeon met with the New Republic, there really were a lot of worlds saying "F this" to the NR and petitioning to join the Imperial Remnant.

 

Post-treaty, though, with the Hand's influence in the mix, the Empire was finally evolving into something different. Not having read any of LOTF, or beyond the first book of FOTJ, I'm not sure what that 'something different' really was. My only post-NJO reference is really LEGACY, where Fel's Empire was a lot better in general, but still suffered from the legacy of the human-dominated Empire of old thanks to guys like Morlish Veed. But overall, it was better, and they had some pretty cool Jedi working for 'em. As fanboy as the Imperial Knight design was (all about looking cool, like Maul and Boba Fett), it...well, it was cool. It was a nice blend of Imperialness with the black and the red (appropriate for the group serving as the Emperor's royal guard) and armor, but some nice Jedi touches with the capes, hoods, and hanging 'skirt' pieces. The uniform silver-bladed sabers were pretty great, too. I really wanted Ostrander to delve more into the IKs' history.

 

Anyhow... I liked a lot of what went on in NJOl, but I can't help but wonder at where the EU would've gone had they followed Zahn's lead from the HoT duology.

 

That's what I mean...THAT would be a much more interesting read than a bunch of the post Thrawn stuff. Though we have to thank Kevin J. Anderson for Exar Kun.

[Lurkz]

From what I heard the first Republic Commando book was very good, then after that it just got worse and worse until people were either loving it (fandalorians) or going "dubya tee eff?" (everyone else).

 

Hehe. Well, it's been a while since I read them. I remember enjoying the first few and then after that most of her stuff makes me roll my eyes and stop reading. Or in the case of LotF -want- to stop reading but not doing it so I could get to the next book by a decent author.

[Omnitheo]

The decision to kill Mara was not solely Karen Traviss's. The decision was by the publisher. They gave an outline of what the series was to be, and which author would write which events.

 

There is a lot of Traviss hate, and it's understandable given some of her attitudes, but it should not be for killing Mara. Why is nobody ripping Troy Denning to pieces for killing two Solo children? Because it wasn't his decision, it was the publisher. Troy even wanted to be able to bring back Anakin, he hated killing the kids, but it was his job to do.

 

Timothy Zahn wanted to write a book about the Skywalker family. Not a whole series, just a single book, and he had not even started. It was just something he had been considering. If he was actually actively working on it, he would have had to have gotten approval from Del Ray and Lucas, and then Mara would not have been killed. (or he would have simply been told that there were other plans for her). Creating a character does not make that character yours. He created a Star Wars character, and thus anyone working with Star Wars has access to that character, and can use them as seen fit.

 

Also, Mara isn't the only character to die in Star Wars. It happens to lots of people, and sometimes it doesn't happen enough. Look how old the big three are, yet they still get the limelight. We can't see ****** Jaina because her mom and dad are still alive to do the important stuff. Lets start killing off more of the 60-70 year olds, and introduce more younger generations. It's sad that we see more of the younger characters die or suffer sad fates than the older ones. I'm glad Akbar is gone too. It's time for new prodigies to rise up. Characters also need to die before they become useless. Look at Chewbacca, for 10 years up to his death, he was nothing more than a glorified babysitty for the Solo kids. His biggest role before that was getting trapped on Kessel with Han in the Jedi Academy trilogy. After he died, We got an earlier story (Tattooine Ghost) which featured him a lot more prominently. The same can and will happen for Mara. We'll still get books about her (Zahn has only been writing about her early life lately anyways) And he can still write a book about the Solo family that takes place before her death.

 

Lastly, Mara served her role. She had a good run in the series, and wasn't always properly utilized, but her death didn't strike me as wrong. She was always hotheaded, and rushing off to confront Jacen on her own was exactly in character.

[Yeren]

The decision to kill Mara was not solely Karen Traviss's. The decision was by the publisher. They gave an outline of what the series was to be, and which author would write which events.

 

There is a lot of Traviss hate, and it's understandable given some of her attitudes, but it should not be for killing Mara. Why is nobody ripping Troy Denning to pieces for killing two Solo children? Because it wasn't his decision, it was the publisher. Troy even wanted to be able to bring back Anakin, he hated killing the kids, but it was his job to do.

 

Timothy Zahn wanted to write a book about the Skywalker family. Not a whole series, just a single book, and he had not even started. It was just something he had been considering. If he was actually actively working on it, he would have had to have gotten approval from Del Ray and Lucas, and then Mara would not have been killed. (or he would have simply been told that there were other plans for her). Creating a character does not make that character yours. He created a Star Wars character, and thus anyone working with Star Wars has access to that character, and can use them as seen fit.

 

Also, Mara isn't the only character to die in Star Wars. It happens to lots of people, and sometimes it doesn't happen enough. Look how old the big three are, yet they still get the limelight. We can't see ****** Jaina because her mom and dad are still alive to do the important stuff. Lets start killing off more of the 60-70 year olds, and introduce more younger generations. It's sad that we see more of the younger characters die or suffer sad fates than the older ones. I'm glad Akbar is gone too. It's time for new prodigies to rise up. Characters also need to die before they become useless. Look at Chewbacca, for 10 years up to his death, he was nothing more than a glorified babysitty for the Solo kids. His biggest role before that was getting trapped on Kessel with Han in the Jedi Academy trilogy. After he died, We got an earlier story (Tattooine Ghost) which featured him a lot more prominently. The same can and will happen for Mara. We'll still get books about her (Zahn has only been writing about her early life lately anyways) And he can still write a book about the Solo family that takes place before her death.

 

Lastly, Mara served her role. She had a good run in the series, and wasn't always properly utilized, but her death didn't strike me as wrong. She was always hotheaded, and rushing off to confront Jacen on her own was exactly in character.

 

I don't agree with your assessment of the publisher ... that's as far as I'll go into that.

 

As for killing off older people ... I'm all for it. It is something that I've wanted to see for a long time. The problem is the main timeline of books isn't doing enough to promote those younger roles so that we actually grow with them (as we did with the original cast). I thought Anakin Solo was being developed fairly well as Luke's eventual successor ... but apparently not in the cards. I'm not sure Tahiri will ever 'rejoin' the jedi order ... but that's okay (I'm a rather big fan of the not often mentioned Tenel Ka). As for one of my issues regarding Mara's death ... I don't think she did serve her purpose. I saw a lot more that she could do. I saw more potential in her character than Leia .... and would have much rather have seen Leia stand up to Jacen. Mara did not have a great death (neither did Jacen for that matter), but Chewbacca and Anakin Solo's death are firmly emblazened in my mind.

 

I know that other books can be written (and Tatooine's Ghost was from my reading ... horrible). I don't want to see a Skywalker book for before Anakin was apprenticed with Jacen. I want a Skywalker book where Mara actually helps him through the loss of family .... not LUKE TO THE RESCUE .... AGAIN!

 

This is why the kids are good (I even read most of the Young Jedi Knight series) to give us those characters. The main timeline novels stick with what people know or are familiar with and that's the core 3.

[Aximand]

The decision to kill Mara was not solely Karen Traviss's. The decision was by the publisher. They gave an outline of what the series was to be, and which author would write which events.

 

That's actually not true. The other authors in the series have gone on record stating that it was all Karen's idea, and that she made threats about dropping out of the series half finished if she didn't get her way in how it went down. I can't find the quotes anymore mainly because the links that I used to have were taken down or deleted, but Professor Walsh confirmed this when he went to a book signing event for the LotF series and asked. At least I believe it was him.

[tehjai]

The thing that got me was that she started out seeming totally sane. The Republic Commando books are quite good. Then it just kinda went downhill from there.

 

Yeah. I kinda side-eyed all of Traviss' work when the RepCom characters became important to the central post-ROTJ narrative.

 

The way the RepCom dudes were written -- they shouldn't have given a womprat's behind about any Jedi.

[Tuscad]

Did anyone else notice that the publisher seems to be trying to eliminate all traces of Zahn from the EU? I.E. by axing a bunch of his characters in Legacy of the Force?

Mara Jade, Giliad Palleon (spelt it wrong probably) and Jacen Solo

 

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Fate of the Jedi kills off more, I only got to Vector so I wouldn't know (because all my local bookstores shutdown and Wal-Mart stopped carrying them, stupid uncultured town). I wouldn't be too suprised if Jaina got axed and someone else like Tahalri (spelt that wrong) ended up with Jagged. (please don't spoil anything to do with her or the trial for me, I plan on finishing FOTJ one day).

Edited February 24, 2012 by Tuscad

[Lurkz]

Did anyone else notice that the publisher seems to be trying to eliminate all traces of Zahn from the EU? I.E. by axing a bunch of his characters in Legacy of the Force?

Mara Jade, Giliad Palleon (spelt it wrong probably) and Jacen Solo

 

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Fate of the Jedi kills off more, I only got to Vector so I wouldn't know (because all my local bookstores shutdown and Wal-Mart stopped carrying them, stupid uncultured town). I wouldn't be too suprised if Jaina got axed and someone else like Tahalri (spelt that wrong) ended up with Jagged. (please don't spoil anything to do with her or the trial for me, I plan on finishing FOTJ one day).

 

Haven't read FotJ myself by from what I gather Jaina doesn't get axed that I'm aware of. No idea what happens with Tahiri.

 

And, to be fair, a new Zahn book came out just this past summer. I think what they're -trying- to do is transfer the EU story from the original 3 to the new generation. They're just handling it really poorly.

[mefit]

The decision to kill Mara was not solely Karen Traviss's. The decision was by the publisher. They gave an outline of what the series was to be, and which author would write which events.

 

There is a lot of Traviss hate, and it's understandable given some of her attitudes, but it should not be for killing Mara. Why is nobody ripping Troy Denning to pieces for killing two Solo children? Because it wasn't his decision, it was the publisher. Troy even wanted to be able to bring back Anakin, he hated killing the kids, but it was his job to do.

 

Timothy Zahn wanted to write a book about the Skywalker family. Not a whole series, just a single book, and he had not even started. It was just something he had been considering. If he was actually actively working on it, he would have had to have gotten approval from Del Ray and Lucas, and then Mara would not have been killed. (or he would have simply been told that there were other plans for her). Creating a character does not make that character yours. He created a Star Wars character, and thus anyone working with Star Wars has access to that character, and can use them as seen fit.

 

Also, Mara isn't the only character to die in Star Wars. It happens to lots of people, and sometimes it doesn't happen enough. Look how old the big three are, yet they still get the limelight. We can't see ****** Jaina because her mom and dad are still alive to do the important stuff. Lets start killing off more of the 60-70 year olds, and introduce more younger generations. It's sad that we see more of the younger characters die or suffer sad fates than the older ones. I'm glad Akbar is gone too. It's time for new prodigies to rise up. Characters also need to die before they become useless. Look at Chewbacca, for 10 years up to his death, he was nothing more than a glorified babysitty for the Solo kids. His biggest role before that was getting trapped on Kessel with Han in the Jedi Academy trilogy. After he died, We got an earlier story (Tattooine Ghost) which featured him a lot more prominently. The same can and will happen for Mara. We'll still get books about her (Zahn has only been writing about her early life lately anyways) And he can still write a book about the Solo family that takes place before her death.

 

Lastly, Mara served her role. She had a good run in the series, and wasn't always properly utilized, but her death didn't strike me as wrong. She was always hotheaded, and rushing off to confront Jacen on her own was exactly in character.

 

Agreed with everything you wrote!

 

Now that I have had time to read alot of Mara's tails you can clearly see she thought she was powerful and ran into alot of fights blinded in her own eqo.

 

The fight ended just as if anyone would have wrote it , Skywalker bloodline seems to almost always win over any fight that isn't against another Skywalker . After all his mother was Leia !

 

NOT EVERY CHARACTER

 

 

IS GONNA DIE EPICLY ,

 

 

IT WOULD BE STUPID !

 

 

 

Lucas >The Publisher > Authors , This poor lady could have or could have not come up with the idea to do so but the Publishers had to ok it and either or from what I have read , they did give outlines on how it would happen.

 

A Author for most series does not have free rights to just do as they want with the character owned and created by someone else. Simply does not happen.

 

Mara died in a fight against a Skywalker decendant , and he killed her . I just do not see how that was bad or not !

 

This of course does not mean that her story ends either , they will do more stories about her while she was alive most likely . Wouldn't doubt that she does not come to Luke in Ghost in new stories .

Edited February 24, 2012 by mefit