Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Don't forget the travesty that was the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy! Sigh. I love the EU, I really do, but parts of it are just plain BAD. Jedi Academy I've read a couple times, it's at least more tolerable than some of the rest. Mostly I reread it occasionally because it contains large plot points for the rest of the EU, but the characterizations are absolutely terrible. I, Jedi and a lot of the other standalone novels are actually really good though. And of course, anything by Zahn. Enjoyed the X-Wing books a lot (apparently they're about to come out with more!). I actually did like Dark Empire and a lot of the comics. Not all, but a lot of them. Granted, it's been many many years since I read them so it's possible what I loved then is terrible to me now. Anyone else reading the re-release of Heir to the Empire with Zahn's annotations? Absolutely fascinating. Just reminds me why Mara and Thrawn are two of my all-time favorite characters (only one who MIGHT beat them is Han). (Also, re. Dark Nest... goddamn killiks... I really really really hate them. I take great pleasure in slaughtering all of them and their stupid joiners every time I'm on Alderaan) Edited February 23, 2012 by Lurkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikModi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 RE-RELEASE OF HEIR TO THE EMPIRE??? WITH ANNOTATIONS BY TIM ZHAN???? MUST BUY!!!!!! Yes, I'm a Tim Zhan fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hehe, no worries, I'm totally a Tim Zahn fangirl. As soon as I found out about it I pre-ordered and devoured it within the day it came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikModi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm happier hearing that then I was the day I found a pristine Heir to the Empire hardcover at Half-Price Books, making my hardcover collection of the Thrawn Trilogy a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire-Wolf Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Don't worry, the Star Wars expanded universe is like the Super Hero universe. I'm sure they'll bring her back to life soon. Possibly as host to the Phoenix Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mefit Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Again , Mara Jade is just a character ! She is only as intresting as her story, and while I am neutral on her death. I am much more intrested in the fact that she is now dead and now gives Luke more flavor for it . Lucas is involved in all things Star Wars and gave it the ok. Probably the one to say "Make it happen" . Attacking a Author over a idea that more than likely did not come from said Author is the biggest childish BS someone can do . Get over it and or do not read EU . I find EU intresting and do not hold onto Characters like if they were real life people . Maybe that is the issue here ! Edited February 23, 2012 by mefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Killing her....who really thought that was a good idea? I did-I never liked that Mary Sue and was sorry she couldn't have been snuffed along with Thrawn at the end of the trilogy. Hearing about her death actually made think about picking up Star Wars fiction again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mefit Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 1) Grammar and punctuation are your friend. 2) Mostly we're just saying that she died in a stupid way that did not do justice to the character or to the author that created her and turned her into the character people love. 3) If you think this conversation is stupid... why are you here other than to troll us? 1 ) I didn't make a personal attack towards you , I will admit my gammar is bad but doesn't discredit my opinion ! I am entitled to comment on any topic in here just as you are ....... 2) Characters are not LIVING beings , they are used to make drama for us all to be entertained by . I do not think they did anything bad on how she died and why it happened . As usual they are bulking up Luke Skywalkers Drama , and she is just another notch in it ! 3) I didn't come in here to "troll" you or anyone . I came in here to say my opinion on the matter. If you were made upset by my OPINION than it wasn't the intent or no more the intent that you or others gave by your opinions . I like the Author as I like most of the EU Authors , but then I like most things I read and when I see something I do not , I do not READ it . Shes dead , in reality she lived no longer than the words that gave her life by the very Author/Authors who created her and ended her . She will live on in the pages that were wrote and the pages yet to be made. Atleast EU isn't like Marvel , I've watched Magneto ("my favorite Marvel Character") go through everything that can be thought of . I was happy when they killed him , and felt by bringing him back and killing him again and again was screwing with the character I like. But I never got personal when a Author decided to kill him , and nor did I attack the Author personally about it. Kinda seems people need to go outside more ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's already been said, but I'll iterate: Anakin Solo died heroically, saved both of his siblings and other Jedi on what was basically a suicide mission that went south almost immediately. I had no problem with it because he went out like a champ. Sure some thought he'd have a grand destiny, but it was a war and sometimes people just die, and they're often the best and brightest of their generation. It was poignant. Also, his lightsaber wound up being too cool for him and it went on to pursue it's own unique destiny. Mara Jades death was just poorly written sensationalism, OMG JACEN SOLO IS EVIL! I've read it and re read it. Pretty much everything dealing with the characters post NJO took a big steaming dump on their character growth. I mean I know a lot of people hate the NJO, but good god, everything that came after has been so much worse. Just sensationalism trying to sell books, the reversion of every plot and character is just proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 So... because Mara is "just a character" we should just... what? Not care about what happens to her? That's why people read books, to follow the story of characters they like and care about. No one is claiming she's "real" or "alive." We enjoyed the character and thought she was given a stupid, and out of character, death. The fact that's she's "only a character" doesn't magically invalidate our opinion. As for the post-NJO books, I thought in many ways they continued to grow -some- of the characters. But sadly, a lot of them just kind of got shafted. And from what I understand, it just gets worse in Fate of the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 So... because Mara is "just a character" we should just... what? Not care about what happens to her? That's why people read books, to follow the story of characters they like and care about. No one is claiming she's "real" or "alive." We enjoyed the character and thought she was given a stupid, and out of character, death. The fact that's she's "only a character" doesn't magically invalidate our opinion. As for the post-NJO books, I thought in many ways they continued to grow -some- of the characters. But sadly, a lot of them just kind of got shafted. And from what I understand, it just gets worse in Fate of the Jedi. Yeah, it does. I don't think the changes have made the story more exciting. I think that they've destroyed the fantasy. I'm not looking for realism...I'm looking for fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, it does. I don't think the changes have made the story more exciting. I think that they've destroyed the fantasy. I'm not looking for realism...I'm looking for fantasy. I don't mind some realism, but as you (at least I think it was you) pointed out earlier, if I want super-gritty dark realism, I'll read/watch BSG. Of course, the downside of going the pure fantasy route is we get junk like Crystal Star and Children of the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeren Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 LOL Always a possibility. Hopefully Tim Zahn has more SW books he plans to write so we can still have more (well written) Mara Jade. I read somewhere that Karen Traviss screwed over a book series that Mr. Zahn had in the pipeline BECAUSE she killed Mara. I personally wasn't happy with the choice. I would have much prefered she strike down Jacen than Jana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeren Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, it does. I don't think the changes have made the story more exciting. I think that they've destroyed the fantasy. I'm not looking for realism...I'm looking for fantasy. I believe Fate of the Jedi is the last of Del Rey's exploration into longer series with multiple authors. I see this as a good thing as it seemed that the authors took their own liberties and contradicted where other authors wanted to go (see my previous comment about Mr. Timothy Zahn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I read somewhere that Karen Traviss screwed over a book series that Mr. Zahn had in the pipeline BECAUSE she killed Mara. I personally wasn't happy with the choice. I would have much prefered she strike down Jacen than Jana. That makes me sad. I would have loved to see some late-EU Mara written by Zahn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaethe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I believe he still plans on using the character Mara in more books. He's just preferring to write in the Classic Era as opposed to later eras. Some interesting interviews/comments Zahn makes: https://www.facebook.com/TimothyZahn/posts/265744146790138 http://www.theforce.net/jedicouncil/interview/timothyzahn.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 That makes me sad. I would have loved to see some late-EU Mara written by Zahn. I agree. On realism, let me explain- I'm not talking about Crystal Star crap fantasy or bigger, badder Jedi powers one upping each other. I like realism enough that keeps the characters grounded in believability. When I speak of realism, I'm talking about deep inner soul searching. Han and Leia having to deal with the death of two of their kids and Chewbacca, and yet perservering. That is noble, and I'm not saying it's not. But I'm not looking for that amount of 'deep' grown up existentialist exploration: I'm looking for an outlet. BTW I just finished Allegiance by Zahn. Amazing book. I think that Choices of One is the next book featuring those characters. If you want to see how a GOOD writer creates characters, this is the next best thing to the Heir to the Empire trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Those were some interesting interviews/comments, Rhaethe, thanks for linking them! Yes, Allegiance and Choices of One are both great books. It's interesting to read about the Empire from the perspective of people that we know are honorable but are also loyal to the concepts of the Empire and/or the Emperor himself. It sheds a whole different light on the Empire and the people in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Those were some interesting interviews/comments, Rhaethe, thanks for linking them! Yes, Allegiance and Choices of One are both great books. It's interesting to read about the Empire from the perspective of people that we know are honorable but are also loyal to the concepts of the Empire and/or the Emperor himself. It sheds a whole different light on the Empire and the people in it. Yes...made my day. Zahn echoes exactly my thoughts: Those characters aren't supposed to die; and it's Good guys vs. Bad Guys. He is my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes...made my day. Zahn echoes exactly my thoughts: Those characters aren't supposed to die; and it's Good guys vs. Bad Guys. He is my hero. Indeed. So, personal canon, ABY-EU ends where LotF starts? Yes/Yes? That's why the Legacy comics don't bother me, they're so far after the books that it'd be silly to expect "Oh, all the main characters never died!" But at least (assuming you don't have something like LotF telling you otherwise) you could assume they all either died of old age or really awesomely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikModi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I actually wrote an "alternate" future setting for Star Wars tabletop RPGs that doesn't include anything after the NJO. It's a thousand years in the future, the GFFA collapsed completely (because, let's face it, from the treatment it's been given by various authors, there's no way it can succeed), and the Imperial Remnant stepped forward. We now have a benevolent Empire. Or do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I actually wrote an "alternate" future setting for Star Wars tabletop RPGs that doesn't include anything after the NJO. It's a thousand years in the future, the GFFA collapsed completely (because, let's face it, from the treatment it's been given by various authors, there's no way it can succeed), and the Imperial Remnant stepped forward. We now have a benevolent Empire. Or do we? Depending on who ends up in charge of the Empire... it could be. That's something that's always vaguely bothered me about the depiction of the Galactic Empire in SW. Empire's aren't inherently evil, they just lend themselves better to the kind of evil that a corrupt leader can inflict upon people. Which, yes, Anakin and Palpatine were definitely the wrong kind of people to be running that sort of government. But even after they're dead the entire EU treats the Empire as this "OMG EVIL" thing and... it really isn't. (I know, eventually they stop doing that but for a long time the Empire was synonymous with evil) And yeah... the GFFA is kind of doomed. Honestly, the New Republic was probably doomed from the start, it had all kinds of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I just posted on his wall and he responded to me. That is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I read somewhere that Karen Traviss screwed over a book series that Mr. Zahn had in the pipeline BECAUSE she killed Mara. I personally wasn't happy with the choice. I would have much prefered she strike down Jacen than Jana. That's true. Zahn was planning a new series centered around Luke, Mara and Ben when he heard the news that Mara had been killed. God I can't get over how big of an *** hat that lady was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That's true. Zahn was planning a new series centered around Luke, Mara and Ben when he heard the news that Mara had been killed. God I can't get over how big of an *** hat that lady was. Maybe he'll still write it and just set it before LotF. Might rather drastically change his planned plot though. The fact that no one, even the publisher, saw fit to tell Zahn what was going on until the book was about to be released, was pretty ****** in general, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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