This game is TWO MONTHS old.

[Antipathize]

It cracks me up to see people trying to say that a game launched now, should have all the bells and whistles of other mmo's. There is a cost to production, and every mmo is going to launch with the bare minimum so as to recoup their expenses as soon as possible. That gives them time and money to flesh out weak areas.

 

It cost blizzard an enormous amount of money to reach the level they did, but it was justified by their income.

[Citywok]

I hate that game. Good try though; it's cute that you think I care what you think of me.

 

Sure, we can play our sad violins for the developers because launching an MMO is so difficult and they deserve the benefit of the doubt. We should throw our money at them because they deserve it. We owe it to them for having put themselves out there to bring us this slice of heaven called TOR.

 

The reality is that I--and I assume many others--only have the time and money to invest in one MMO at a time. So we have to pick and choose which is most appealing...

 

Put TOR up against any current subscription-based MMO and its foundation begins to falter. I'm not at all claiming that TOR is a bad game, but I am suggesting that other games are a better value you for your money on the basis that they provide more... stuff to do.

 

Is it not a fact that there are other MMOs that are more polished and provide more content than TOR? Rhetorical question. Your insistence on using the "it's a new game" argument proves to me that you realize other games are more polished and offer more content.

 

So since you're arguing in defense of the developers and the game, give me some reasons why I should spend my money here and not on any other game?

 

EDIT - I love that when anyone brings up TOR's competition, but does not name names, the defense squad always brings up WoW. Yet in the same breath, they're the first to shout at you if you do compare the two...

 

You're being entirely unrealistic. Name one MMO that has come out recently that had as much content as a game with three expansions and the biggest subscriber base in the world. The nature of MMOs is that they add more features over time. I have never ever seen a game launched that has the same or more content as one that has had multiple expansions and years to progress. Yes, SWTOR has less content than a few games that have been ouch MUCH longer but it also has more content than most modern MMOs.

 

I plat SWTOR because I love the story (something which most MMOs do not pay attention to including WOW), I love star wars, I love sci-fi MMOs (which are severely lacking), I like the unique warzone games there are, I love the aesthetics of the game, I think the operations and flashpoints are put together very well, and I have faith that BIOWARE will make this game more amazing than it already is because they have a history of making great RPGs with new features.

[Michaelo_Denwar]

I can see peoples point about competitiveness, but I find this game to be very competitive. People keep saying "Other mmo's." I'm confused as to which ones. Aion is a Asian grind fest, all i've ever heard about Warhammer is that its awful, DCUO lasts about 2 weeks, WoW has pandas as a playable race, (don't get me wrong, WoW was awesome, but blizzard lets the devs go wild on that game and it's not what it once was) Eve online is fun, but its solo playability is awful. Now I haven't played Rift and it looked good, but I haven't heard to much on it. There are a couple others that I've heard about, but not in any great detail, like Age of Conan.

 

So if there are better ones my question is what are they and why aren't you playing those? I'm not flamming or anything, just curios. I have found the storyline of SWoTR to be awesome, I don't have a problem with PvP, i know hardcore pvpers do, but I feel like bioware wanted to focus on story, and lets face it, bioware puts out some of the best story lines in games today. I'm expecting PvP to get better as they see what the community would like. The issue I see is they didn't want to be a straight WoW clone and have everything they did, they might grow to have those because the community wants them, but i'm sure they didn't want to start out that way.

 

As to being a WoW clone. WoW set the standard for an mmo. I don't see it as a clone, because there are things that every mmo does (or most of them anyways) questing, pvp, grinding, loot, flashpoints, guilds. That doesn't make a mmo a WoW clone, just a mmo that uses necessary tools required.

 

Now a first person shooter/combat mmo would be awesome. Like an mmo version of skyrim would be bad ***.

[Manigma]

It cracks me up to see people trying to say that a game launched now, should have all the bells and whistles of other mmo's. There is a cost to production, and every mmo is going to launch with the bare minimum so as to recoup their expenses as soon as possible. That gives them time and money to flesh out weak areas.

 

It cost blizzard an enormous amount of money to reach the level they did, but it was justified by their income.

Actually only the MMOs that fail launch with the "bare minimum" this is just like history repeating tbh WAR 2.0

Edited February 22, 2012 by Manigma

[Frostvein]

I really hate this argument, mostly because its terrible.

[Aedales]

Ok, I'll add my 2 cents here. First of all, I really agree with the OP about the game. I personally played 3 months of Beta (Not just a weekend tester), got my 2 weeks of early access, and now going on month 2. I have seen a TON of changes to swtor. I also have beta tested and played many other mmos from launch. Let me point a couple of these out here:

 

Put TOR up against any current subscription-based MMO and its foundation begins to falter. I'm not at all claiming that TOR is a bad game, but I am suggesting that other games are a better value you for your money on the basis that they provide more... stuff to do.

 

Is it not a fact that there are other MMOs that are more polished and provide more content than TOR? Rhetorical question. Your insistence on using the "it's a new game" argument proves to me that you realize other games are more polished and offer more content.

 

So since you're arguing in defense of the developers and the game, give me some reasons why I should spend my money here and not on any other game?

 

As the OP said, WoW or any other game has had a long time to get content provided for their subscribers. The "Is a new game" argument is a very valid one.. and really does show that you never experienced any of the mmos when they launched and the bs they went through.

 

As far as why you should "spend your money here and not on any other game", you shouldn't. Honestly, if you don't like the game.. go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to stay. Those of us who are staying are doing so to experience ALL the changes to the game and can claim longevity later on, while you will be one of many crawling back later when more content has been added. So if you wanna go, then go. But leave here with this one last question: Can I haz your stuff? ok bai!

 

No one is ignoring anything. The premise of your post is to make an excuse for why TOR doesn't compete well with it's competition and has failed to live up to the hype in the eyes of a huge portion of their player base.

 

No one cares that the game is "only 2 months old." The entire premise of releasing broken, buggy, or incomplete software to a retail market has been a patronizing load of garbage for the entirety of the 12+ years that MMO developers have been doing it. Today, FINALLY it has grown unacceptable to do so because as gamers we now have choice provided by a variety of games and competition in the genre. Today we no longer have to put up with it when companies try to sell us something that is fundamentally broken or doesn't deliver on all of it's selling points because we have the opportunity to simply pick up a product that does. THAT is capitalism at it's finest and that is why games today cannot afford to release early anymore. This isn't 2003 anymore dude, an MMO launch today needs to be competitive with the games that are already out on the market. That's just a fact of the culture change that has occurred over the last 10 years. Believe it or not that's infact a good thing as it raises the bar in terms of quality that we see produced. Stop fighting that progress by making excuses for companies who under deliver.

 

I can not begin to express how much crap the above statements here are. "failed to live up to the hype in the eyes of a huge portion of their player base"... ummm what? Let me explain to you that you and 3 of your friends are not a huge portion of the player base. SWToR is actually the fastest growing MMO in history so far, oh ya that includes its competition! Other MMOs have a larger playerbase, but they took years to build. This game came out strong with a large population, and its continuing to grow. As for the rest of your comments, you are just spouting junk for the sake of doing so. If you honestly don't wanna play, go away! No one forces you to be here!

 

Idk, it's tough going from WoW burning crusade. Where i never seen a bug before. Then going to Aion, again never seeing a bug before. Then going to Rift. again never seeing a bug before. Then going to Swtor and the whole game is a giant bug.

 

You have to be trolling.

 

 

So here is my final cut scene for all of you crying people out there: If you wanna go, please leave. I have a goal to get the real gamers to stay and to get you crying 12 year olds back to any other game you want. See you later! You really will not be missed!

 

EDIT: For the record, there are aspects of this game that do need worked on, I agree with that part. But if anyone wants a true reason to stay with this game it is this: Unlike other games, the developers here actually listen to the playerbase and are working on suggestions and bug fixes to that end. Am I a "Fanboi"? They are making me one for sure. Does that mean that this game is perfect? Nope, but it is unique and it has more potential then any other game on the market today.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Aedales

[Eommer]

...

WOW has had SEVEN years to add content. SWTOR has had two months. Can you imagine how much better this game will be even a year from now? But I digress.

Does anyone remember the awful lag issues WOW had at launch? I sure as hell do. Many servers were crashing for a long period of time over and over. Lag, loot lag, falling through the world, etc. Queue times were often an hour or more. The game was often unplayable at times until WOW had time to fix hardware issues. SWTOR has actually done better than WOW in this regard. WOW actually had to give some people free days because the lag was so bad and the servers were so unstable.

 

 

THANK YOU! I was trying to say something like that but my english is too bad. you took the words of my mouth. 100% agree with you.

 

WoW fanboys move over there ------> Exit

[GellonSW]

Why do you insist on comparing a game released in late 2011 to something in 2004? It's like saying well the Ford-T model only had so many features when it came out so why should someone complain about the new 2012 Toyota Corolla? Edited February 22, 2012 by GellonSW

[dweber]

The forums need to pander to my facebook tendencies and add like buttons on posts. Thanks OP for a great post and making a good point. Much appreciated.

[Citywok]

Why do you insist on comparing a game released in late 2011 to something in 2004? It's like saying well the Ford-T model only had so many features when it came out so why should someone complain about the new 2012 Toyota Corolla?

 

I'm comparing MMO launches. You guys really don't get how an MMO launch works, SWTOR is not going to have three expansions worth of content at launch, go play another game please.

[Michaelo_Denwar]

Why do you insist on comparing a game released in late 2011 to something in 2004? It's like saying well the Ford-T model only had so many features when it came out so why should someone complain about the new 2012 Toyota Corolla?

 

Enough with the car comparisons. This is not a car, this is a game, the programming of which is complex and convoluted. I would challenge all these people that say they could have done better with this to go make an mmo that is better than this one. Making a game run is hard by itself, add in connecting to another computer and playing with that person brings a world of problems. Add in yet hundreds and thousands of people and you get even more issues.

[Dillingor]

I don't know how many times one has to reiterate the same thing.

 

The argument about SWTOR coming out in 2011 and WoW coming out in 2004 so SWTOR should have all those features blah blah blah is garbage. Completely garbage.

 

You need to actually stop and think about development for a minute.

 

 

When they were planning out SWTOR, I'd say it was either during Vanilla WoW, or Burning Crusade at the latest.

 

They had a bucket list of things to implement, and began work on it.

 

Development for this time of game takes YEARS TO DO.

 

So yes, while they were developing this game WoW was coming out with new and interesting features, as were other MMOS. That's great, but if they stopped and kept adding every new thing in to this game during that time, it would never come out. It would constantly add development time, and the game would end up like duke nukem forever.

 

 

Instead, they did what they set out to do with intentions of adding features post launch. THIS IS HOW MMOS WORK.

 

 

Yes, WoW came out in 2004, and SWTOR did learn a lot from that believe it or not, but you CAN'T realistically add in every feature WoW has added WHILE YOUR GAME IS IN DEVELOPMENT and expect it to fit budget or come out on time.

 

Anyone who uses that dull lifeless argument that oh well WoW came out in 2004 so SWTOR SHOULD HAVE ALL THOSE FEATURES BECAUSE ITS 2012!!! obviously doesn't have any idea of how the real world works, nor have they ever held a job that actually does anything of use, besides feeding fat people, or washing their cars or whatever.

 

 

Seriously, drop that argument, it only makes you look ignorant and stupid.

[Degarmo]

It cracks me up to see people trying to say that a game launched now, should have all the bells and whistles of other mmo's. There is a cost to production, and every mmo is going to launch with the bare minimum so as to recoup their expenses as soon as possible. That gives them time and money to flesh out weak areas.

 

It cost blizzard an enormous amount of money to reach the level they did, but it was justified by their income.

 

This is on the money.

[Citywok]

The forums need to pander to my facebook tendencies and add like buttons on posts. Thanks OP for a great post and making a good point. Much appreciated.

 

No problem, I just want people to understand that this game is going to be MUCH better. Thats how all MMOs are, more content is added after launch fixes are made. I'm going to laugh when they come back in a few months and love this game. Honestly I think a lot of these people are just bored with MMOs in general and expected this to be a drastically different game changer at launch. It's already top 3 in subscribers and there's only more good stuff to come.

[Citywok]

I don't know how many times one has to reiterate the same thing.

 

The argument about SWTOR coming out in 2011 and WoW coming out in 2004 so SWTOR should have all those features blah blah blah is garbage. Completely garbage.

 

You need to actually stop and think about development for a minute.

 

 

When they were planning out SWTOR, I'd say it was either during Vanilla WoW, or Burning Crusade at the latest.

 

They had a bucket list of things to implement, and began work on it.

 

Development for this time of game takes YEARS TO DO.

 

So yes, while they were developing this game WoW was coming out with new and interesting features, as were other MMOS. That's great, but if they stopped and kept adding every new thing in to this game during that time, it would never come out. It would constantly add development time, and the game would end up like duke nukem forever.

 

 

Instead, they did what they set out to do with intentions of adding features post launch. THIS IS HOW MMOS WORK.

 

 

Yes, WoW came out in 2004, and SWTOR did learn a lot from that believe it or not, but you CAN'T realistically add in every feature WoW has added WHILE YOUR GAME IS IN DEVELOPMENT and expect it to fit budget or come out on time.

 

Anyone who uses that dull lifeless argument that oh well WoW came out in 2004 so SWTOR SHOULD HAVE ALL THOSE FEATURES BECAUSE ITS 2012!!! obviously doesn't have any idea of how the real world works, nor have they ever held a job that actually does anything of use, besides feeding fat people, or washing their cars or whatever.

 

 

Seriously, drop that argument, it only makes you look ignorant and stupid.

 

THANK YOU. I seriously love you for this post. People just don't understand how these things work or care to understand. They're all me me me satisfy me now type of people. Patience is a virtue believe it or not.

[Setanian]

SWToR is actually the fastest growing MMO in history so far, oh ya that includes its competition!

 

And.. judging by the number of people saying they are leaving and the number of people asking for server-mergers, it also the fastest failing MMO of all time.

 

The game is based on one of the largest IPs of all time, of course it was going to get a lot of box sales.

 

Neither you nor I know at this point, how many players have left, or not renewed their subscription.

 

A few more months will tell that story.

 

6 years development and $300m spent on it, and we got a fancy single player online game.

 

Before you go jumping for the reply button, remember the end game was completed by some within the first week of launch and was deemed meh.

[Daize]

totally agree with the op

[Michaelo_Denwar]

Good post OP. Thanks for at least trying to make people understand that this game is better than other games have been at its launch, and will get MUCH better with a beautiful little thing called "Time."

[Iboga]

You must not have been around when the thousands of other threads on this topic made it to 30-40 pages...

 

I'll sum it up for you: While the game may be new and while other titles may have the benefit of years of development, TOR has to compete with games that are out and playable today regardless of when their competition launched.

 

Why?

 

Because their competition offers me more for the same price. TOR cannot afford to hide behind "two months old" when other games give you more.

 

The onus is on the team to deliver a game worth the monthly subscription, and I think where people find fault with TOR is that it doesn't compete well. So people move on to those games and leave TOR behind--which is not what anyone wants.

 

That's ridiculous... so you expect a 2 month old game to come out with 7 years worth of content just because it's released 7 years after another game? Seriously, dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

I will repeat this for the millionth freaking time because people like you obviously don't understand... THIS GAME HAS MORE CONTENT AT RELEASE THAN ANY OTHER MMO pretty much ever... Rift, WoW, AoC, WAR, you name it, more content here and more being added.

[Citywok]

And.. judging by the number of people saying they are leaving and the number of people asking for server-mergers, it also the fastest failing MMO of all time.

 

The game is based on one of the largest IPs of all time, of course it was going to get a lot of box sales.

 

Neither you nor I know at this point, how many players have left, or not renewed their subscription.

 

A few more months will tell that story.

 

6 years development and $300m spent on it, and we got a fancy single player online game.

 

Before you go jumping for the reply button, remember the end game was completed by some within the first week of launch and was deemed meh.

 

Pssst guess what? The loud minority who post constantly negative crap on this forum are attention whores who think everyone should view this game the way they do. General discussion forums are never a good indicator of performance on any MMO. If you look at the WOW gen chat forums you'd think the game died and went F2P.

[Tenceriker]

Its funny watching all the excuses being made for TOR because its 2 months old. What's even funnier will be the excuses made by the forum faithful over the spring and summer as we have three AAA MMOs launching with more content, less bugs and functional social elements. I better tag this thread as goal posts will be moved again without a doubt.

[Setanian]

Pssst guess what? The loud minority who post constantly negative crap on this forum are attention whores who think everyone should view this game the way they do. General discussion forums are never a good indicator of performance on any MMO. If you look at the WOW gen chat forums you'd think the game died and went F2P.

 

Oh and we should view it the way you do instead?

[Aedales]

And.. judging by the number of people saying they are leaving and the number of people asking for server-mergers, it also the fastest failing MMO of all time.

 

The game is based on one of the largest IPs of all time, of course it was going to get a lot of box sales.

 

Neither you nor I know at this point, how many players have left, or not renewed their subscription.

 

A few more months will tell that story.

 

6 years development and $300m spent on it, and we got a fancy single player online game.

 

Before you go jumping for the reply button, remember the end game was completed by some within the first week of launch and was deemed meh.

 

Actually, we do know how many... if you bothered to keep up with the game news. Swtor sold 2 million copies of the game for launch, of which 1.7 million kept their subscriptions. Now they are over 2 million again with more players coming in.

 

As for your comment about "6 years development and $300m spent on it, and we got a fancy single player online game." please see my above statement about: If you don't like it, don't play it! Honestly, we would prefer to have you gone then to listen to you cry all the time.

 

And finally, on the end game content completion... that statement just goes to show that a lot of people sadly have no life. Me, I prefer to experience the game content instead of bustin balls to 50 then crying cuz: zomg there is not a ton of content here already! Do I have some level 50 characters, absolutly. Now I am working on my other toons as well as gearin up my higher ones. 8 characters, 2 factions = a lot of content with more on the way. Oh, and I can still have a life.

[Drewser]

And.. judging by the number of people saying they are leaving and the number of people asking for server-mergers, it also the fastest failing MMO of all time.

 

 

What percentage of the player base do you think have started a thread here or posted here?

[Setanian]

Actually, we do know how many... if you bothered to keep up with the game news. Swtor sold 2 million copies of the game for launch, of which 1.7 million kept their subscriptions. Now they are over 2 million again with more players coming in.

 

As for your comment about "6 years development and $300m spent on it, and we got a fancy single player online game." please see my above statement about: If you don't like it, don't play it! Honestly, we would prefer to have you gone then to listen to you cry all the time.

 

And finally, on the end game content completion... that statement just goes to show that a lot of people sadly have no life. Me, I prefer to experience the game content instead of bustin balls to 50 then crying cuz: zomg there is not a ton of content here already! Do I have some level 50 characters, absolutly. Now I am working on my other toons as well as gearin up my higher ones. 8 characters, 2 factions = a lot of content with more on the way. Oh, and I can still have a life.

 

Show me links please for the current stats?