Something for all "no premade" QQers

[Voloon]

Yah, I don't particularly "enjoy" beating on pugs (even though I'd hardly call a 4 man a "premade"), but I have zero sympathy for people who solo queue, and refuse to ever even entertain the thought of grouping up in a multiplayer game.

 

Soloing is nice. It's very accessible, its not restricted to schedules or strict requirements. But, its also just that, its soloing, and to think that is going to yield the best result in an MMO is kind of delusional.

 

If you want to solo, that's fine, but live with the fact that you might be put at a disadvantage to groups that might, gasp, want to work together, in a gasp, a team game. When I queue solo, I full know this, I don't whine when I get beat by premades, because one, if they're better they're better, and two, I beat premades enough to not feel like it shouldn't drastically affect me from finishing a daily.

 

The OPs logic is pretty true though. Even while soloing, the liklihood of you playing AGAINST a premade, is about the same as playing WITH a premade that should counter some of the effects of premades.

 

If you're consistently losing solo, all that really tells is YOU consistently lose. And if you refuse to group, even when you CAN, all that really tells me is you're an awful team player who tries to cover that insecurity by using the ploy of "I just don't like it" as a defense mechanism.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Voloon

[Cempa]

On my server two guilds always run pre mades and they are notorious for always losing lolz.

[_Flin_]

Not fussed by premades at all and will be more than happy to run with or against them. All I am saying is that most premades dont want to play competitive games. They are just there to roll through the games and get there rankings and tokens

 

Rankings? Which rankings?

 

Ever occured to you that some people actually do a premade because they are FRIENDS and like to play TOGETHER ? Or in a guild, and like to communicate and teamplay in the WZ?

 

Nah, it's all about winning.

 

Guess what! Nobody ever WINS in an MMO, except (maybe) the shareholders of a successful title. All the others just waste time. Or play. This isn't a job, this isn't professional sports, it's a game, and all you win is just bits and bytes on a server that is owned by other people.

 

premade premade yadayada. Team up, make some friends. Thats the only thing you can ever "win" in an MMO.

[Bamfed]

I'm a BH pvp tank and I have a lethal sniper. Monday was a holiday so I spent the day Pvp'ing. It took 27 games to get my 6 wins on the two of them. They are both fairly new working on gear about 290-300 expertise. Damage really means nothing but on my sniper I do my job of doting capers and protecting objectives. Always over 250k damage (much more in void star) but not much over that when I'm focused on objectives. I know with my gear I should be about middle of the pack or lower but I'm always top 3 sadly.

 

So, yesterday my sorc friend and I get on the same time about 6pm. We start our WZ's to do the daily. He is always top healer on our team with 350-390k healing. I go on my BH and end up with over 100k protection and 100k damage and 10medals and we still get 3 capped on Alderan. We score better than the opposing team and still lost 17 WZ in a row. It's now 9pm. This is not an exaggeration. 17 with a tank and healer to support these awful teams. My taunts always on cd. My guard getting bounced around on targets that are under fire. Finally our 18th game we get a huttball and we start capping the ball over and over. We got 4scores then they score one. I score our 5th goal and 4 players from our team DC including me disconnect. Straight to the character select screen.

 

I woke up the neighbors with the screams that ensued. Must punch babies, holding a puppy, holding a kitten, holding a baby turtle.

 

Dailies should not take more than one day to complete. There needs to be a tracking system for individuals and you need to reach a certain amount of medals or games that will also get you your daily like 50 medals or something would take most people 6-10 games. It would still be faster to get 3 wins for those that win every game. But for the people that are trying there *** off they can still finish a daily in under a week with 20 losses in a *********** row. I'm not a fan of welfare loot but holy *********** **** balls I worked my *** off yesterday and got ZERO wins. We got so few commendations for the 20 games from loosing them all I didn't get the required 800 tokens to even buy a single bag.

[_Flin_]

There needs to be a tracking system for individuals and you need to reach a certain amount of medals or games that will also get you your daily like 50 medals or something would take most people 6-10 games.

 

Dailies will be cured with 1.2. Or so they say.

[Seurot]

I'm a BH pvp tank and I have a lethal sniper. Monday was a holiday so I spent the day Pvp'ing. It took 27 games to get my 6 wins on the two of them. They are both fairly new working on gear about 290-300 expertise. Damage really means nothing but on my sniper I do my job of doting capers and protecting objectives. Always over 250k damage (much more in void star) but not much over that when I'm focused on objectives. I know with my gear I should be about middle of the pack or lower but I'm always top 3 sadly.

 

So, yesterday my sorc friend and I get on the same time about 6pm. We start our WZ's to do the daily. He is always top healer on our team with 350-390k healing. I go on my BH and end up with over 100k protection and 100k damage and 10medals and we still get 3 capped on Alderan. We score better than the opposing team and still lost 17 WZ in a row. It's now 9pm. This is not an exaggeration. 17 with a tank and healer to support these awful teams. My taunts always on cd. My guard getting bounced around on targets that are under fire. Finally our 18th game we get a huttball and we start capping the ball over and over. We got 4scores then they score one. I score our 5th goal and 4 players from our team DC including me disconnect. Straight to the character select screen.

 

I woke up the neighbors with the screams that ensued. Must punch babies, holding a puppy, holding a kitten, holding a baby turtle.

 

Dailies should not take more than one day to complete. There needs to be a tracking system for individuals and you need to reach a certain amount of medals or games that will also get you your daily like 50 medals or something would take most people 6-10 games. It would still be faster to get 3 wins for those that win every game. But for the people that are trying there *** off they can still finish a daily in under a week with 20 losses in a *********** row. I'm not a fan of welfare loot but holy *********** **** balls I worked my *** off yesterday and got ZERO wins. We got so few commendations for the 20 games from loosing them all I didn't get the required 800 tokens to even buy a single bag.

 

I totally understand. There have been too many games of Huttball where there maybe 2 or 3 of us max are always trying to get the ball and score. It'll feel like it is 2 or 3 vs 5+ cause the rest of the team is never around while the opponents are all swarning you three with the ball carrier. And then the chart at the end will show the 2 or 3 of you with maybe 3 medals and low dam done, while the rest of the team have alot of dam and medals for pit fighting. So trying to win costs you valor and still no win. You can't help or make a bad team good cause they aren't trying to be good.

 

But cause of things like this and alot of other things such as losing trust that the devs really make changes for the good of the game and not cause of forum QQ, I know I'm done for sure when the next game comes out. It's like a relationship where there's things you don't like and it builds up and one day, you just know its over. There's actually nothing they can do with the game to change that now.

 

PvP queues went up alot when the first month of free game time ended. And its going to get a whole lot worse when D3 comes out cause alot more will leave.

[Celebrus]

All of you who claim that you cannot complete your dailies because you are rolled by premades and loose 20 WZ in the row, here is some math (I know, math is bad) for you:

 

Assume worst case scenario, that in every single WZ there is only 1 premade, and that premade always win.

 

So, for 12 random players, 8 loose, 4 get free win.

 

You have 33,33% chance of getting a free win (in worst case scenario, in reality sometimes there are premades on both sides, or no premades at all). This mean you should complete your daily in 9 matches on average.

 

When you loose 20 matches in the row, than you are unluckiest person in the world

 

I feel like you might have forgotten to carry a one somewhere. This math seems off to me.

[Nangasaur]

No.

 

Most competitive premades want competative fights, not easy faceroll gear grinds.

 

Fixed for you.

 

And honestly, most PVP guilds, in my experience, really do care more about the faceroll. It's only the truly exceptional, competitive, strong ones that want the same in their battles. And they are much fewer and far between than not.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Nangasaur

[Keldaur]

Fixed for you.

 

And honestly, most PVP guilds, in my experience, really do care more about the faceroll. It's only the truly exceptional, competitive, strong ones that want the same in their battles. And they are much fewer and far between than not.

 

Yep, but too many people wants to be just delusional. Most of them, if forced to premade vs premade, they wouldn't pvp. And that's why i want a premade vs premade queue, to filter the baddies and get some real fun matches when playing premade.

[Celebrus]

I am emphatically opposed to it for the following reasons:

 

- A full premade isn't really possible (or at least, not possible to guarantee) in this game at present. When I can queue as an 8-man team for Rated Warzones I will. All the while I'm relying on good fortune for 50% of the spots on my team, I see no reason to be forced aside.

- It will make the queues longer. The game doesn't currently support cross-server PvP.

- I actually really enjoy the single-server nature of the game - I'm friends with people on both the Empire and Republic side simply from seeing them often in Warzones. To me, the benefits of this close-knit community outweight the downsides of server cluster queueing.

- The game is designed to be played in groups. Warzones are set up to be group activities. It'd be like saying PUGs should have their Hardmode Flashpoints or Operations tuned to be easier.

- Premades do not guarantee a win and I have beaten many premades whilst queuing solo. I have also lost to them. As I said above, four bad players in a party is still nothing more than a party of four bad players. They don't gain an innate benefit from grouping unless they create one.

- I can see no reason why someone would steadfastly refuse to group with other people in a group activity. It seems like those of us who have made friends would be punished with longer queue times to support those people who never want to group with anyone and yet still expect to be able to win whenever they want to.

 

I could go on but in the interest of fairness, why don't you have a crack at explaining why you don't want to group with other people?

 

 

Because I don't have to?

 

Listen, we get it, you made friends, you are e-popular, you can pull together 3 "friends" to make a pre-mee with at the drop of a hat. And nobody cares.

 

What you're suggesting is that other people should continue to be punished because they refuse to conform to your style of play and your interests in the game. It's typical around here, but it certainly doesn't have roots in "the interest of fairness".

 

The game is designed to be played in groups. Warzones are set up to be group activities. It'd be like saying PUGs should have their Hardmode Flashpoints or Operations tuned to be easier.

 

This is only slightly ridiculous to me, considering that by default if you Q for a warzone, you are engaging in a group activity regardless of whether or not you formed your group prior to joining It's also nothing like a hardmode flashpoint or an operation, because I'm sorry, there just isn't that much depth, strategy, or skill involved in playing IN or AGAINST a PUG.

 

If they enforce a debuff for leaving games, they should really introduce ranked matches at the same time, that way pugs wont be rolled by pre-mades, unless they are pre-mades that simply aren't making the cut in ranked games. And you can have your "challenge" in ranked games, defeating people that are on your level of coordination, so that you can get extra goodies to lord over the puggers, in the interest of fairness and all.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Celebrus

[Faat]

But it's not fair for bad premades to be playing against good premades, right ?

 

Much better putting baddie premade against PuGs, fair game.

[araphina]

Bads only want to play against other bads.

 

When getting destroyed everyday in various warzones, instead of trying to fix the problem internally, they come to the forum and whine about premades.

 

Why even play an MMO and not group with other people? People want upgrades for their gear because it makes them more effective. Queueing up with other people increases a group's coordination, and therefore makes them more effective. You wouldn't queue without gear, so why do you queue without team mates? Forming a group is a tool, available to everyone, that makes your ability to succeed more effective.

 

As easy as it is to form groups, and readily available to all players, what's the real issue here?

 

The premade whiners know that a seperate queue for premades would put a ton of good players in a seperate queue from them, therefore leveling the playing field.

 

I'm not opposed to premade queues. I welcome good competition, but all these premade whiner threads need to be seen for what they are: Bads crying about being bad.

[Vydor_HC]

When getting destroyed everyday in various warzones, instead of trying to fix the problem internally, they come to the forum and whine about premades.

 

I see this as well. The solution to the problem is in the hands of the players. They can fix it themselves by playing the game as designed, by grouping.

[RocNessMonster]

#1 reason I join premades: 99% of the time you're going to get a fresh warzone. I can deal with starting Alderaan or Voidstar in-progress but Huttball I cant even get out of the ready room before I get deserter debuffed.

[anwg]

No.

 

Most premades want competative fights, not easy faceroll gear grinds.

 

If they want competitive fights they can have it out in Outlaw's Den with another premade.

 

IMHO there's nothing wrong with pre made, most of them aren't even that good. Unless it's those 2 tank 2 healer ones that are impossible to kill.

Edited February 23, 2012 by anwg

[OldSwab]

"2 teams, Frogdogs and Rottworms, chosen by random draw"--Baron Deathmark's greatest idea

 

I'm on Ilum until that happens, except for occasional WZ to grab more red stims for Ilum. The valor is better on Ilum, I get the daily done in 15 mins or half an hour, and just hang out there until I'm tired of pvp/we guild HM's/it gets too lopsided/I want to play my lvl 17 pub or 18 imp alts for more competitive WZ's.

 

Warzones at 50 mostly sucks. Your mileage may vary, especially if you're a lvl 50 Battlemaster with a bunch of super kewl buds who conquered level 10's or have gotten in on the Ilum killtrading...heroically, of course.

 

But meh...the cheesymoders paid the same price I did, and I hope they're getting their money's worth as well. I'll just hang in Ilum, though. Screw broken WZ's.

Edited February 23, 2012 by OldSwab

[Khoraji]

I agree with OP.

 

Most "pre-mades" are just friends playing with each other with no real tactical advantage over anyone else except that maybe they are more familiar with their teams playstyle. Other than that the only real advantage they MIGHT have is voice comms, but most pre-mades im in dont use voice comms, or if we do, its just to BS while we play.

 

Once ranked matches start, then I would consider putting in a pre-made vs pre-made bracket, but only if we can get 8-man groups.

[thanealpha]

even premades can be beaten up.

Alderaan is best place where premades doesn't matter.

 

Premades has advantage only in Huttball.

 

I strongly disagree with your first point. My win % in Aldaraan when I'm running with my friends is almost 100%. Being able to a> guarentee one cap with 4 allowing the other group to take left and b> communicate and move quickly between two held points is a HUGE advantage. Without vent typed call outs alert to where to run, but it's often those few seconds that make the difference. Not to mention in vent you can specifiy who and how many should shift at any given moment. FAR less chance of getting caught out of position.

 

I agree though that Huttball is FAR easier with a premade. The instant communication is a critical advantage.

 

Voidstar...is probably the smallest advantage although it's still far easier to cook through targets faster with a premade which can result in faster runs through the doors.

[salamanderx]

Premades killed warhammer warzones, so theres no question that they have an effect.

 

Bioware tried to mitigate this by only half allowing premades. I have yet to see a premade I couldnt de-rail enough for my team to tear them up, but if they start getting too tight to the point that victory is inevitable then there should be an option to queue up solo only games. I say "IF", I havent seen it yet.

[astrocanis]

No.

 

Most premades want competative fights, not easy faceroll gear grinds.

 

Sure, there are the odd failgroups that only want to play with an advantage, but the majority enjoy good fights. The fact that there was no competitive PvP on release has been a major factor for a lot of guilds, and have probably moved on (gone back to their old games) already because of this.

 

That's why, in every game that the queues are separated, the premades disappear. Wanting only stiff competition, of course.

[Faat]

That's why, in every game that the queues are separated, the premades disappear. Wanting only stiff competition, of course.

 

That made me lol

 

That's why so many posters, including the OP, don't want to see their ability to premade is up against PuGs disapear. No more easy win and Epeen inflation.

 

I'm a premade junkie. I want competition. I was gladiator / hero in Guildwars 1, always have been competitive in all the games I've played, and I'm telling you this : if you actually like the FACT that 75% of the time you Q up with your premade you face nothing but healerless PuGs, you're part of the problem why the masses quit PvPing in games like SWTOR, WAR, etc.

 

That poster above saying when he premades he's close to 100% win IS RIGHT. Stop lying saying you lose matches to PuGs with your premade. If you do, review your playstyle, because it looks like I and many other have different results.

[Faat]

Premades killed warhammer warzones...

 

Premades killed warhammer warzones...

Premades killed warhammer warzones...

Premades killed warhammer warzones...

 

QFT

 

/thread

 

They will also kill SWTOR if they don't separate Qs. BOOK IT.

[dhazelwood]

On Cho Mail we have only 1 pvp guild with about 20 active members... so most of the time is one of our premades vs another of our premades with pugs (if we get any) making up the rest.

 

 

90% of the time we get huttball after a 30 min que and we scramble to score the ball before the 120 seconds is up.

 

 

I'm all for not allowing premades to que up with randoms, however only if they allow me to transfer to a larger server or open up cross server ques... otherwise our que times would be 4 or 5 hours long if they ever pop at all on a low/medium pop server.

 

 

 

PS.... Go join a guild... Its an MMO not a single player game, get your own premade going.... Making friends is hard.

[BraaxusKun]

All of you who claim that you cannot complete your dailies because you are rolled by premades and loose 20 WZ in the row, here is some math (I know, math is bad) for you:

 

Assume worst case scenario, that in every single WZ there is only 1 premade, and that premade always win.

 

So, for 12 random players, 8 loose, 4 get free win.

 

You have 33,33% chance of getting a free win (in worst case scenario, in reality sometimes there are premades on both sides, or no premades at all). This mean you should complete your daily in 9 matches on average.

 

When you loose 20 matches in the row, than you are unluckiest person in the world

 

lolno

 

what if someone was in a good mood for one wz then a bad the next and didnt help much

 

what if someone else joins

 

variables sir

 

also don't base maths on assumptions for a game. who cares.

[Scoobings]

All of you who claim that you cannot complete your dailies because you are rolled by premades and loose 20 WZ in the row, here is some math (I know, math is bad) for you:

 

Assume worst case scenario, that in every single WZ there is only 1 premade, and that premade always win.

 

So, for 12 random players, 8 loose, 4 get free win.

 

You have 33,33% chance of getting a free win (in worst case scenario, in reality sometimes there are premades on both sides, or no premades at all). This mean you should complete your daily in 9 matches on average.

 

When you loose 20 matches in the row, than you are unluckiest person in the world

 

My problem isn't that I can't get my daily done, because just like your math says it's actually kind of easy.

 

My problem, is that the game are never fun. They are never close. It's always a one sided stomping because one side has a premade, so they (say in huttball) score in under 2 minutes.

 

This makes the people on the other team quit, and the game spirals into a crapfest where nothing exciting happens. This isn't every game but it happens frequently enough that it's stifling any sort of enjoyment I get out of a majority of my pvp games.

 

So yes, I can complete my dailies but tbh I could give a **** about that. I want to have fun and the combination of no penalty for afkers and premades being put in pug que is eliminating that.