DarthKhaos Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I for one want to see this implemented, What would you rather do, Get into a Flashpoint quickly or sit around the fleet for hours & hours asking if anyone wants to do a specific Flashpoint, I'd rather be questing & advancing my toon than just sitting around reading endless fleet chat hoping in vain that you'll see someone putting together a group for the Flashpoint your looking for. You guys say we sing one song but I keep seeing this mantra when we have clearly shown in words and picture why this does not have to be the case. I do not like the LFG spam in General and you can avoid that and still not have a cross server system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I thought about this but never knew how to really express it. Probably the only people who have problems finding groups are DEEPEESSSSS, as Tank or Healer you basically instantly find a group. No, tanks are often waiting around for healers. in rift I queued up single server on an alt cleric, who was spec'd so that I could queue as tank, heals, support and dps...multiple days of 6+ hours in the queue with no groups. in a cross server system, that simply wouldn't happen. In tor, I'm a tank on my main (and my primary alt) and I'm still highly in favor of cross server lfg. I'm not the only one having problems finding groups: I've repeatedly seen groups looking for a healer for more than an hour in fleet; I've seen more than one instance of a group spamming for 2-3 hours for a healer and not finding one (from the time I logged on until I logged off for the night) With LFG Tools you get matched with random people and it often takes a +-30% more time to complete a dungeon because of undergeared underskilled people.Eh, my experience is that most lfd groups were just fine running though just as fast as I could pull in WoW... the undergeared/underskilled people aren't common enough to really make a serious dent in the time it takes me to run. As someone already stated, the only real argument the Pro-X-Server-LFGers have is that they want to experience every content.No, there's also want to form groups quickly and minimize the time spent sitting around waiting for groups.want the ability to not be held hostage by bad people playing needed classes; if you kick your healer on my server, have fun waiting another hour to replace him.want the ability to play with people on other servers, add cross server friends, even cross server guildinvites.in favor of keeping the low level flashpoints utilized, especially for new players to the game who are otherwise going to totally miss out on them.etc Any player who plays in a proper and social manner shouldnt have problems finding a group.No, that's just blatantly untrue. If you ignore the other players and solo your way trough the game, you cant expect other people to be ready when you want to do some content with you. There's noone for me to ignore; I haven't seen more than 2 or 3 people total on my alt (who mid 30s) since corsucant. It is so simple, play, make friends, form groups, or are you such jerks noone wants to socialize with you?I'm in favor of cross server lfg because I'd like more people to socialize with. Edited March 15, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You guys say we sing one song but I keep seeing this mantra when we have clearly shown in words and picture why this does not have to be the case. I do not like the LFG spam in General and you can avoid that and still not have a cross server system.Sure, I could stop logging into the game; then I wouldn't need to spam lfg in general... but that's not a better solution than a cross server lfg tool. the truth is: the alternate solutions that keep being thrown about are nearly worthless; spamming is simply a much faster way to find groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Players against making it easier to find groups always boggle my mind.I gues they figure that since the group content itself is so easy, they should want to make finding groups difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsith Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Well I guess those people on low populated servers can go **** themselves. I mean we don't want to ruin the community by introducing a tool that allows players to group faster so they can do dungoens. Nah, they must spam the general channel in their faction's Fleet and if, by chance they get a group they will be forced to talk to their groupmates for at least 30 minutes before starting the dungeon, if not they will be kicked for a low social level. ... Are you that stupid, honestly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Sure, I could stop logging into the game; then I wouldn't need to spam lfg in general... but that's not a better solution than a cross server lfg tool. the truth is: the alternate solutions that keep being thrown about are nearly worthless; spamming is simply a much faster way to find groups. Try to use the LFG tool, unwieldy that it is, and get more people to use the tool that was meant to be used for...LFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Well I guess those people on low populated servers can go **** themselves. I mean we don't want to ruin the community by introducing a tool that allows players to group faster so they can do dungoens. Nah, they must spam the general channel in their faction's Fleet and if, by chance they get a group they will be forced to talk to their groupmates for at least 30 minutes before starting the dungeon, if not they will be kicked for a low social level. ... Are you that stupid, honestly? And the one song pony strikes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Try to use the LFG tool, unwieldy that it is, and get more people to use the tool that was meant to be used for...LFG.No thanks, it's faster to spam general, and will be even if more people use the tool. Just like it was in wow, pre lfd. Just like it was in rift before cross server lfg tool (even after they added single server matchmaking tool). Just like it was back in EQ. etc. It doesn't really make any sense for me to waste time trying to get people to use a tool that's not as effective as spamming in fleet. Edited March 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJAShadow Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) No thanks, it's faster to spam general, and will be even if more people use the tool. Just like it was in wow, pre lfd. Just like it was in rift before cross server lfg tool (even after they added single server matchmaking tool). Just like it was back in EQ. etc. It doesn't really make any sense for me to waste time trying to get people to use a tool that's not as effective as spamming in fleet. I don't believe that's true. The opposite has been my experience with using the LFG tool. My prime example would be when I was looking for people to do the Mandolorian Raiders FP. We had 3 people and were looking for one more at the Republic Fleet. After spamming General Chat with no luck for a couple minutes, I just looked on the LFG tool to see if there was anyone on another planet/area that is around our level and is LFG. Took me 10 seconds to Whisper him, ask if he wants to do the FP and that we needed 1 more dps. He said yes and had a very good group (underleveled, but that was a part of the fun). The LFG tool usefullness is directly proportional to how many people use it. The more that use it even when they are questing on other planets, the better it is. The main problem is most people don't know about it, and those that do learn about it see that no one else is using it. A more robust one (doesn't need to teleport you... travel in this game is so quick) would definitely help, but the masses need to be educated. Edited March 17, 2012 by CJAShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unpleasant Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Why not scrap the idea of cross-server LFG altogether, and get the server population up to where we can ever form groups on a single server in the first place. Easy solution to a ton of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenMuse Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me. I've no problem with anything of that nature for PvP, IF you are doing it seriously then you are in a pre-made. Other than that there is zero interaction needed. PvE however, Heck I'd rather see none-at-all, not even same server (Though that would be the lesser of two evils). My issue is about standards of behaviour, some have come here with bad habits already formed because of being in situations where they thought there was zero accountability. Unlikely to ever randomly meet these folks again so no repercussions for nasty childish behaviour. If you have to go out and actualy put in work to form a group, your face gets known.... for good or for bad. Play well, behave well, be friendly and those people will be likely to keep an eye out for you in future and give you first refusal on any group slot. Act like an idiot and people will not want to group with you, your bad behaviour earns you a bad reputation and soon you couldn't find a group no matter what.... all your own fault and you ARE accountable. Bring in a Random grouper and that accountability is lost..... multi-server ones even more so. Bad idea unless the dev's WANT the hostile atmosphere and spead of negative behaviour from there into other aspects of the game. (And whilst kids ARE the worst culprits, they are not the ONLY culprits that lower their standards of behaviour when not accountable. I've seen players who I've known where older than me do so (Late 40's)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Why not scrap the idea of cross-server LFG altogether, and get the server population up to where we can ever form groups on a single server in the first place. Easy solution to a ton of problems.no, I'd still vastly prefer cross server lfg; even if they merge servers 4:1 there still won't be a dense enough population to support mid level flashpoints, and the fact that new players will basically miss out on flashpoints is a big negative for the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) PvE however, Heck I'd rather see none-at-all, not even same server (Though that would be the lesser of two evils). My issue is about standards of behaviour, some have come here with bad habits already formed because of being in situations where they thought there was zero accountability. Unlikely to ever randomly meet these folks again so no repercussions for nasty childish behaviour. If you have to go out and actualy put in work to form a group, your face gets known.... for good or for bad. Play well, behave well, be friendly and those people will be likely to keep an eye out for you in future and give you first refusal on any group slot. Act like an idiot and people will not want to group with you, your bad behaviour earns you a bad reputation and soon you couldn't find a group no matter what.... all your own fault and you ARE accountable.No, the worst scum I ran into in rift were in the top defiant guild on my server; they had 0 problems getting groups or running raids since, you know, they were the top defiant raid guild on the server. There were people on the PoMS (peice of monkey ****) list on my EQ server that remained in guilds; the girl who ninjalooted stuff from someone's 10th ring war, and a druid that had been well known as a training/KSing PoS for years (anyone who ever traveled through RM on that server would know his name); both of them were in guilds when I quit playing, and the former was in one of the bigger raid guilds (say, top 6 or so) for the server. People in some of the top 3 guilds on that server (the ones that had been top 2 until PoP when SI leapfrogged them to beat time ahead of them) had some real douches in them: people who would train, camp jump and KS you at the drop of a hat; I repeatedly ran into a particular enchanter who trained the hell out of all the low level people to get a camp for an alt in mistmoore, and was repeatedly trained/camp jumped by him in tactics/BoT. The guild leaders just didn't care. same for wow: a guy that was known to have used masterloot to take the ony mount continued to run pug raids every week and was still in a guild last time I was paying attention to trade chat in orgrimar. Sure, a guy spammed general chat about the ninjalooting for a month every time he was recruiting for his pug raid... he still ran them every week. Most of the server either won't bother to keep track of the people that you shun. If you spam general chat, most of the server isn't going to care, because there's no way to verify the truth of what you're saying. The only thing it actually accomplishes is that you personally won't ever get grouped with them again, and that works just as well in an lfg tool (whether single server or cross server) as it does without an lfg tool. Bring in a Random grouper and that accountability is lost..... multi-server ones even more so.No, that accountability is still there; it just doesn't actually do anything. Edited March 18, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 no, I'd still vastly prefer cross server lfg; even if they merge servers 4:1 there still won't be a dense enough population to support mid level flashpoints, and the fact that new players will basically miss out on flashpoints is a big negative for the game as a whole. They can help mid level flashpoints by adding mentor/sidekick/level match system. Where high level players can match low level players to help them without making the flashpoint too easy or hurting their xp. This will also help with heroics where cross server LFG will not, since many heroics are not instanced. Not to mention helping people level in general and bring more people back to dead worlds. Just an alternative solution to the specific grouping problem you mentioned, not trying to be for or against a LFG tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I've no problem with anything of that nature for PvP, IF you are doing it seriously then you are in a pre-made. Other than that there is zero interaction needed. PvE however, Heck I'd rather see none-at-all, not even same server (Though that would be the lesser of two evils). My issue is about standards of behaviour, some have come here with bad habits already formed because of being in situations where they thought there was zero accountability. Unlikely to ever randomly meet these folks again so no repercussions for nasty childish behaviour. If you have to go out and actualy put in work to form a group, your face gets known.... for good or for bad. Play well, behave well, be friendly and those people will be likely to keep an eye out for you in future and give you first refusal on any group slot. Act like an idiot and people will not want to group with you, your bad behaviour earns you a bad reputation and soon you couldn't find a group no matter what.... all your own fault and you ARE accountable. Bring in a Random grouper and that accountability is lost..... multi-server ones even more so. Bad idea unless the dev's WANT the hostile atmosphere and spead of negative behaviour from there into other aspects of the game. (And whilst kids ARE the worst culprits, they are not the ONLY culprits that lower their standards of behaviour when not accountable. I've seen players who I've known where older than me do so (Late 40's)) Another misguided soul that thinks accountability has ever meant anything in these games. News flash for you black list have never worked beyond your little group of friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodeodanza Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I saw a major difference after LFD was implemented in WoW. Perhaps you didn't play that much. The ones that want LFD are usually parents with work and family that have 2 hours to play a day. Why do I have to suffer because you are a busy person? Perhaps you haven't seen the change in WoW because of LFD, but I have. You're not going to believe this. Get ready for it. It's an optional tool!!!!! You don't have to use it. You can spam all you want and make your groups the old fashioned way. I played WoW and Rift when this was implemented before and after. Literally saw no change. Edited March 18, 2012 by Rodeodanza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) The main problem is most people don't know about it, and those that do learn about it see that no one else is using it. A more robust one (doesn't need to teleport you... travel in this game is so quick) would definitely help, but the masses need to be educated. I've been saying this for a long time. Even if you have a fully automated cross server system that is the end all and be all (as some thing) of LFGing and the same amount of people use it now as the current toll guess what it's not going to work as intended. I've asked a simple question in other threads like this and most ignore the question one or two answered with idiotic responses which tells me they aren't really wanting to group. "If you log on right now and have a list of 20 players, of varying roles, all wanting to do the exact same flashpoint that you want to do right now can you get a group going quickly?" The answer I got was "No because I don't want to lead a group." I did a guide called LFG Tool A HOWTO. What it can and cannot do. to help educate people about the tool. Also this guy took it a step further with suggestions for improvement in his thread Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept with a Concept LFG Tool for us to see. Bottom line some of us truly wish to make this game better by working with what we have, helping others use the tools to get what they need done and make well thought out suggestions to add to the game instead of cry and complain with no constructive suggestions and jump ship because they didn't get something that's in WoW. You're not going to believe this. Get ready for it. It's an optional tool!!!!! You don't have to use it. You can spam all you want and make your groups the old fashioned way. Ok I'll bite. Let me ask you this. Go on WoW and "Spam over general." Tell me what will happen. I'll let you know before it does and you will come back and confirm it. You'll get a bunch of "There's a LFG tool noob!" And if you say you don't like it and want to form a group the "old way" they'll laugh at you say good luck and ignore you. I don't like spamming LFG in general and none of the suggestions I've made or the one I linked above requires you any general chat spamming. What I want is to be able to make friend through playing with them in flashpoints and warzones where I can team up with them later for instanced and non instanced content or even just shoot the breeze. THAT'S why I'm against cross server. Edited March 18, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronule Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I hate PUGs and random dungeon finders, but I also hate abortion but politically support it, so that being said, adding one is a step in the right direction in this day and age with the increased interest in endgame progressions over social outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I've been saying this for a long time. Even if you have a fully automated cross server system that is the end all and be all (as some thing) of LFGing and the same amount of people use it nice try but people will use system that works current is worthless Ok I'll bite. Let me ask you this. Go on WoW and "Spam over general." Tell me what will happen. I'll let you know before it does and you will come back and confirm it. You'll get a bunch of "There's a LFG tool noob!" And if you say you don't like it and want to form a group the "old way" they'll laugh at you say good luck and ignore you.world is cruel deal with it What I want is to be able to make friend through playing with them in flashpoints and warzones where I can team up with them later for instanced and non instanced content or even just shoot the breeze. THAT'S why I'm against cross server. and i want cross-server-everything to play the real massive multiplayer game you ppl is sacrifice for greater good, deal with it Edited March 18, 2012 by navarh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) nice try but people will use system that works current is worthless world is cruel deal with it and i want cross-server-everything to play the real massive multiplayer game you ppl is sacrifice for greater good, deal with it And you missed my point. Not going to waste my time explaining again after making it simple the first time. Edited March 18, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heppuli Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Because the servers can not police themselves. In a LFG system the bad player that afks or ninjas can continue to keep doing it. After using WoW's LFG tool for over 2 years, I haven't encountered a player who afked the whole instance... I also didn't see people ninja that much, you maybe saw one once in 3 months. And I used LFG tool quite enthusiasticly. It's sad really when someone tries to make up reasons to hate such an obvious improvement to the game. Who likes yelling for hm group for hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heppuli Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 No... there are multiple instances of every zone in swtor... there are lots of places in the whole of the internet that don't have even a single instance in swtor, let alone multiple instances. so that definition has nothing to do with the whole of the internet. Right now, in the game as it works today, you can have multiple instances of every zone in the game. If you happen to be in the wrong instance from a friend, you can move to their instance to do stuff with them (I've had to do so on several occasions, particularly on coruscant) Wrong. Not every zone is instanced. On my server, only Korriban had several instances, and it was due to the amount of players. Planets after Korriban were NOT instanced. If you happen to play on a high population server, then it's a different matter alltogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 No thanks to cross server LFG, i would rather just keep each server as a seperate community, or just merge a few low pop servers together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Wrong. Not every zone is instanced. On my server, only Korriban had several instances, and it was due to the amount of players. Planets after Korriban were NOT instanced. If you happen to play on a high population server, then it's a different matter alltogether. That instanced is different from the way flashpoints are instanced. Look at it like this. Flashpoints & raids can be placed on their own server. Seperate and detached from the rest of the server your character resides on connected to a shared database holding your character information. The instances that your class quests and heroic quests are part of not just the server but the planet said instance is on. This is why you can talk to players in general chat on say Balmora while inside your class or a heroic quest instance and can only chat in general chat with players inside say Esseles. You cannot chat with players located on fleet or Courascant's general chat while inside that flashpoint because it is not part of those planets. This is why a cross server can work for flashpoints and operations and not class and heroic quests. They're two different types of instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heppuli Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 ^ I thought he was talking about how planets are instanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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