Am I just MMO'd out?

[gurugeorge]

Well to be honest as big Star Wars and Bioware fan, this is my last MMORPG. I really don't care all others MMOROG's will coming out in the future, i'll stay here.

 

If there isn't Swtor, i would quit genre. I'm really bored of the genre, all other games are same old thing. But Star Wars, Bioware's Story, and no Iron Age ('throw your stone to enemy' fights), keeps me here.

 

Well, i think Swtor is the best and last game of MMORPG's.

 

Note: If you are 15-16 years old it should seems strange for you, but i'm 39 and feel this way.

 

Ha, dude I'm 52 and I still haven't gotten the monkey off my back.

 

The problem is, even if you're jaded, a new MMO usually is fun for a month or two, just because it's new, and the newness is the only thing that slightly re-awakens the old "magic" feeling (especially for Explorer types). So like some haggard old drug addict, you WILL continue to shuffle from MMO to MMO just to eke out a poorer and poorer "fix"

[BobaTed]

Yes exactly. It has to be one of the more inane comments the haters come up with.

Speaking as one of the "haters," it sounds like you and I agree more than we disagree. My experience was similar to yours - CoH was my first MMO as well, and it felt perfectly normal to team up with others. I still play it for that reason.

 

I was actually very surprised to find that very few other MMOs supported teaming nearly as much (IME, only Guild Wars came close to CoH in that regard). It's fine to say that's "par for the course" for MMOs, but that misses the point of the complaint.

 

Near as I can tell, WoW pretty much sets the bar for the industry, simply due to its size. Problem is, the bar is set low, and gets pushed down regularly. You may be resigned to that, and accept it as industry standard. I don't - and that seems to be where we disagree.

 

Whether it's teaming, graphics, gameplay, UI, whatever, there are so many cool innovations scattered around the MMOsphere, tucked away in niche games or games that suffered for other reasons. Bioware, a known company with a solid fanbase, sitting on a great IP and backed by a powerful publisher, apparently opted to ignore all that (plus its own system used in KotOR) in favor of the tired and overworked "industry standard." Do you really regard that as acceptable?

[-Arcane-]

Now don't get me wrong, SWTOR is probably one of the most polished MMOs I've ever played..

 

Ahaha.

 

 

Next thing you'l be saying is the launch was good.

 

 

Facepalm.

[areto]

It's odd that so many people seem to get mmo fatigue while playing swtor.

[wifeaggro]

Now don't get me wrong, SWTOR is probably one of the most polished MMOs I've ever played.....yet

 

Having played most MMOs since the days of UO and EQ I'm starting to flag in hours logged in. Having played most classes I find everything post level 20 (when you stop gaining "new powers" and instead getting upgrades to existing ones) a bit similar to the last 3-4 levels.

 

The storylines are great, but even that doesn't seem to draw me in.

 

I suppose its due to the old MMO mechanics of Tank/DPS/Healer (which even if the game allows different tactics, most parties end up playing in defined roles) and no matter if I'm fighting in a secret Imperial Manufactering plant or the Dungeon level of Lord British's castle.....the setting differs but the game "feels" similar. The last few MMOs have given me the same feeling of being a retread. Its nothing to do with Devs not being bothered to come up with something new, more they satisfy what the customer wants.

 

It give me pause to consider the term MMO, is it in fact a genre rather than a term used to describe its capabilites. Sure there's lots of different types of MMO, but the more popular ones all seem to "play" in a similar manner.

 

So as an MMO player am I fated to have a number of years playing the big guns of the MMO world before settling down to drift between niche MMO in the search of new gameplay?

 

I guess it all boils down to what the majority of the customers want. And I guess the big subscription numbers lie in not changing too much from a proven formula.

 

 

....but then again, if could just be that I'm MMO'd out

 

Its a combination of things. TOR is not a true traditional MMO, Its a very single player focused game with Multiplayer options. the combat mechanics and class choices are very limited all groups have stripped out any utility or mezzing classes . this has created mechanics that are all DPS races for epic and heroic encounters. sure there are CC but its all done from the DPS or heal specs with very little variation. NWN combat mechanics were more dynamic and varied then TOR. it is avery stripped out game in my opinion. So people will feel very tank and spank in encounters.

 

If your a veteran MMO player the storylines are great. but rerolling will not hold apeal if you want to play on the same faction. the zones feel like single player levels and plays more like a relay of a single player game then a dynamic living world MMO's of the past.

So yes if your a MMO vet youll become fastly bored and burnt out with TOR as alll the things a mentioned slam into the wall of a very shallow end game and basically zero social content. No guild features LVLs , alternate content like guild ship aquiring , guild emblems . things you work towards in your game community. Itemization is a food stamp teir and lacks any Dynamic indviduality. TOR needed more devolpment time if you can believe that, pretty sure EA put the Hammer on Bioware and said trim the features polish what you have and release it.

 

Truth be told ive played on NWN 1 persitent servers that felt more like a MMO then TOR , we are a solid year out form this game fleshing out and feeling like a full game. Problem is if EA feels Tor is not performing the way they want it too they will just pull support from it just like they did Warhammer. pretty dam sad actually this is the last Big IP MMO that we will see probably. At least Titan and EQ next are on the horizon, i dont even wanna hear about GW2 the alpha was horrible.

[Slytherx]

I find it hilarious that mods are closing any other thread where people are talking about quitting and dislike the current state of the game.

 

This game is bleeding subscriptions, bad.

 

This is the last MMO from EA that I will ever waste my money on.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Slytherx

[Tic-]

It's odd that so many people seem to get mmo fatigue while playing swtor.

 

Probaby because it brings with it so little thats new or different.

 

The genre' has gotten really repetitous. At least the big budget attempts.

[pmiles]

The problem is the players are no longer as interested in the social aspects of MMORPGs as they used to be. Proof is in the pudding:

 

They clamor for a cross-realm LFG/Warzone queue system... this by definition is a soloist approach to the game. You don't need to know anyone, just log in, queue up and play.

 

The smaller and smaller requirements for doing end game content also proves this. You don't have 25 friends? Okay, now you only need 10. Don't have 10 friends? We'll make it a 4 man instance instead. They're getting smaller and smaller because people don't play together, they play alone.

 

MMORPGs were always social games... it wasn't the fact that you were in a world with x amount of players around you, it was the fact that you actually interacted with these people in real-time. Needed to get a group to do quests, et al. Now you can pretty much solo everything but end-game content... and darn if that isn't where are the complaints start rolling in... how at end-game there is nothing to do. There is nothing to do for the soloist. Never has been, but the developers are slowly redesigning the game around the soloist player. Soon (already happening in WoW), you will have no reason to even associate with a guild because the queue system will set up all the blind dates for you that you want.

 

People have moved away from the social aspect of the game... and for MMORPGs, the whole reason you would even play one was for the social aspect. It has indeed turned into a single-player game and is not that much different than playing say a RPG game online. You don't socialize in those games either.

[Lithomed]

The OP is correct: MMOs are stale and boring. The sad fact is in the early days there was a battle for the hearts and minds of MMO gamers between EQ and UO, and EQ won. WoW came along and took the EQ model to new heights of stupidity, all the while making the leveling process much more accessible to the casual player (a brilliant model). We are now reaping that failed harvest. EQ was a boring, uninspired, pedantic leveling treadmill with a boring, pedantic hamster-wheel (the Raid system) as its 'endgame'. This begat WoW and that begat TOR.

 

If GW2 is unable to break this insane assembly line of Me-Too MMOs I for one will be done with the whole genre.

[Ezzem]

MMO's will stay as it is now for the most part until Blizzard comes out with theyr "Titan" project.

 

I'm fairly certain the company who set the bar will be the one who is going to raise it.

[Criosdh]

Now don't get me wrong, SWTOR is probably one of the most polished MMOs I've ever played.....yet

 

Having played most MMOs since the days of UO and EQ I'm starting to flag in hours logged in. Having played most classes I find everything post level 20 (when you stop gaining "new powers" and instead getting upgrades to existing ones) a bit similar to the last 3-4 levels.

 

The storylines are great, but even that doesn't seem to draw me in.

 

I suppose its due to the old MMO mechanics of Tank/DPS/Healer (which even if the game allows different tactics, most parties end up playing in defined roles) and no matter if I'm fighting in a secret Imperial Manufactering plant or the Dungeon level of Lord British's castle.....the setting differs but the game "feels" similar. The last few MMOs have given me the same feeling of being a retread. Its nothing to do with Devs not being bothered to come up with something new, more they satisfy what the customer wants.

 

It give me pause to consider the term MMO, is it in fact a genre rather than a term used to describe its capabilites. Sure there's lots of different types of MMO, but the more popular ones all seem to "play" in a similar manner.

 

So as an MMO player am I fated to have a number of years playing the big guns of the MMO world before settling down to drift between niche MMO in the search of new gameplay?

 

I guess it all boils down to what the majority of the customers want. And I guess the big subscription numbers lie in not changing too much from a proven formula.

 

 

....but then again, if could just be that I'm MMO'd out

 

I've actually been in a very similar discussion on another board with some other fellow "old school" MMO'ers.

 

I partially blame the lack of distractions in most MMOs today. Crafting in SWtOR isn't something you actually do. It's something you log in a toon on, intiate several instances of it and log off to play your other toon.

 

Some might say that is good but with a well developed crafting system people find themselves killing some down time with it, just like they do housing, cosmetic options, etc.

 

I've spent many hours in DAoC crafting because I was too tired to mess around with leveling/raiding or PvsP. I spend hours just messing around with the housing system. Or collecting various pieces of armor or dyeing my equipment to get a perfect look I wanted.

 

Now days MMOs have none of these distractions. You're either grinding warzones or doing the newest fad which is quest grinding.

 

So what happens is when I'm not in the mood to grind warzones or quest grind I'm just plain not in the mood to play the game because there is nothing else to do.

 

Not to mention the social aspect of the MMO is dead so all the battle.net converts can have their little private gaming instances like they did in D2. So you can't just hop into a pick up group and "hang out" and chat while you kill mobs anymore.

 

In other words you're probably no more bored with the MMO genre than I am it's just that the new MMO genre SUCKS.

[wifeaggro]

I've actually been in a very similar discussion on another board with some other fellow "old school" MMO'ers.

 

I partially blame the lack of distractions in most MMOs today. Crafting in SWtOR isn't something you actually do. It's something you log in a toon on, intiate several instances of it and log off to play your other toon.

 

Some might say that is good but with a well developed crafting system people find themselves killing some down time with it, just like they do housing, cosmetic options, etc.

 

I've spent many hours in DAoC crafting because I was too tired to mess around with leveling/raiding or PvsP. I spend hours just messing around with the housing system. Or collecting various pieces of armor or dyeing my equipment to get a perfect look I wanted.

 

Now days MMOs have none of these distractions. You're either grinding warzones or doing the newest fad which is quest grinding.

 

So what happens is when I'm not in the mood to grind warzones or quest grind I'm just plain not in the mood to play the game because there is nothing else to do.

 

Not to mention the social aspect of the MMO is dead so all the battle.net converts can have their little private gaming instances like they did in D2. So you can't just hop into a pick up group and "hang out" and chat while you kill mobs anymore.

 

In other words you're probably no more bored with the MMO genre than I am it's just that the new MMO genre SUCKS.

 

I think devolpers have a skewed idea about the features players want. they are making single player games with online features. Games that had multiple starting cities a large variety of races and did not focus on a funnel structure seem to have longer sub cycles . Devolpers need to prove to investors its better to have400k subs consitent for a year then sell 1 million copies and have 200 k stable subs and the rest leave or churn in 30 day increments. the problem is publishers wont alow that as they get 100% of box sales and split the subs between devolper and I.P. .Big sales mean big qrtr for the publisher, it does nothing for the community or the player , they dont reup invetment into the game until 6 to 9 months after release, then they usally green light funds for a expansion. TOR will not grow much in the next year if the player base thinks they will get a Rift like patch cycle with content you will once again be dissapointed.

[PibbyPib]

 

 

....but then again, if could just be that I'm MMO'd out

 

Could be. I used to loved FPS shooters. Bought them on release day, joined guilds, the whole thing-- then I got bored of them, and they all seemed the same. Developers who tried some little twist on the genre might suck me back in for a box purchase, but I'd be gone again in a couple of weeks.

 

Eventually I just stopped buying FPS games altogether.

 

I do think the MMO genre is suffering from this now much more than it used to, because the triple-A games have all really been attempts to recreate WoW (and understandably so). But they really are all incredibly similar nowadays, and it ends up feeling like you've played it before.

Edited February 19, 2012 by PibbyPib

[PibbyPib]

I've actually been in a very similar discussion on another board with some other fellow "old school" MMO'ers.

 

I partially blame the lack of distractions in most MMOs today. Crafting in SWtOR isn't something you actually do. It's something you log in a toon on, intiate several instances of it and log off to play your other toon.

 

Some might say that is good but with a well developed crafting system people find themselves killing some down time with it, just like they do housing, cosmetic options, etc.

 

I've spent many hours in DAoC crafting because I was too tired to mess around with leveling/raiding or PvsP. I spend hours just messing around with the housing system. Or collecting various pieces of armor or dyeing my equipment to get a perfect look I wanted.

 

Now days MMOs have none of these distractions. You're either grinding warzones or doing the newest fad which is quest grinding.

 

So what happens is when I'm not in the mood to grind warzones or quest grind I'm just plain not in the mood to play the game because there is nothing else to do.

 

Not to mention the social aspect of the MMO is dead so all the battle.net converts can have their little private gaming instances like they did in D2. So you can't just hop into a pick up group and "hang out" and chat while you kill mobs anymore.

 

In other words you're probably no more bored with the MMO genre than I am it's just that the new MMO genre SUCKS.

 

Those are some excellent points, and I have to agree. It also seems like developers have tried to control the player's experience more and more, as the really mammoth studios took over the genre.

 

The first couple of generations of MMORPGs were all really designed by a small collection of people who knew each other from the MUD community. Nowadays they're designed by people who started out at big game studios, and much is dictated by marketing.

 

The local general store has turned into Wal-Mart.

Edited February 19, 2012 by PibbyPib

[Lsya]

 

There isnt just cookier cutter classes anymore...entire games are cookie cutter now bringing in zero that is new.

 

 

There's a lot of truth to that statement.

 

MMOs used to be about virtual worlds to live in, explore, adventure, etc. Now it's all about level up real quick and raid. The focus is on end game when there really shouldn't be an 'end game'. Just being in the virtual environment should be the game. Sadly, the games are being developed to direct people along the path of leveling up quickly to that end game content that never really exists. So, there's not much else to do except level up and then wonder what happened.

 

The excessive instancing in newer games is making the worlds feel empty, because people don't run into each other very often. I prefer running into others. I don't care if we end up completing for the same mobs. At least the world felt full of activity.

 

I'm hoping The Secret World with put the virtual world experience back into MMOs.

 

I'm actually looking forward to EQ going F2P next month, just so I can explore the new world areas and see what's changed after 12yrs.

[jihn]

Give me a game like Cube world, developed into an mmo. I dont need super fancy graphics and tons of useless VO that costs tons of money that would be better spent elsewhere.

[nanogasm]

They say repeating the same thing several times and expecting a different result is called insanity.

 

They say repeating the same thing several times and expecting a different result is called insanity.

[WiGhTkNiGhtt]

They say repeating the same thing several times and expecting a different result is called insanity.

 

My head just exploded.

[DigitalDreamz]

You're not MMOed out. It's just this game is making you depressed.

[PibbyPib]

There's a lot of truth to that statement.

 

MMOs used to be about virtual worlds to live in, explore, adventure, etc. Now it's all about level up real quick and raid. The focus is on end game when there really shouldn't be an 'end game'. Just being in the virtual environment should be the game. Sadly, the games are being developed to direct people along the path of leveling up quickly to that end game content that never really exists. So, there's not much else to do except level up and then wonder what happened.

 

The excessive instancing in newer games is making the worlds feel empty, because people don't run into each other very often. I prefer running into others. I don't care if we end up completing for the same mobs. At least the world felt full of activity.

 

I'm hoping The Secret World with put the virtual world experience back into MMOs.

 

I'm actually looking forward to EQ going F2P next month, just so I can explore the new world areas and see what's changed after 12yrs.

 

What little I've seen on The Secret World doesn't give me much hope in that direction. It seems very directed-- not sandboxy or exploration centric at all. This is just what I've gleaned from interviews and off-hand comments here and there, and I do hope I'm wrong.

 

There are more open-ended, explorable games out there, but they're from small developers who had a shoestring budget to work on. Like Fallen Earth.

Edited February 19, 2012 by PibbyPib

[uruz]

Having played most MMOs since the days of UO and EQ I'm starting to flag in hours logged in.

 

I think that's the key point right there - Early MMO's were new and raw - it took A LONG time to do something, to travel anywhere and get the uber epic items in the game [from what I've heard - I never played EQ]. You also were provided with more diversions - crafting, armor coloring, decorating your house/room, etc... little things that kept people busy

 

Same concept with the old school FPS games - you had no maps, no GPS, and you had the choice to take different routes [and find secrets] to get to the final location. Games back then provided more of a mental challenge than today.

[LaManoNera]

No, you're just tired of the same old thing with a different skin just like the rest of us are. "MMO" doesn't mean copy what WoW did because it has millions of subscribers (to gamers, at least. I'm sure it makes a whole lot of sense to the executives).

[DregorThule]

Now don't get me wrong, SWTOR is probably one of the most polished MMOs I've ever played.....yet

 

Having played most MMOs since the days of UO and EQ I'm starting to flag in hours logged in. Having played most classes I find everything post level 20 (when you stop gaining "new powers" and instead getting upgrades to existing ones) a bit similar to the last 3-4 levels.

 

The storylines are great, but even that doesn't seem to draw me in.

 

I suppose its due to the old MMO mechanics of Tank/DPS/Healer (which even if the game allows different tactics, most parties end up playing in defined roles) and no matter if I'm fighting in a secret Imperial Manufactering plant or the Dungeon level of Lord British's castle.....the setting differs but the game "feels" similar. The last few MMOs have given me the same feeling of being a retread. Its nothing to do with Devs not being bothered to come up with something new, more they satisfy what the customer wants.

 

It give me pause to consider the term MMO, is it in fact a genre rather than a term used to describe its capabilites. Sure there's lots of different types of MMO, but the more popular ones all seem to "play" in a similar manner.

 

So as an MMO player am I fated to have a number of years playing the big guns of the MMO world before settling down to drift between niche MMO in the search of new gameplay?

 

I guess it all boils down to what the majority of the customers want. And I guess the big subscription numbers lie in not changing too much from a proven formula.

 

 

....but then again, if could just be that I'm MMO'd out

 

Same boat here. I'm just done with MMO's as they are atm I think. 13+ years is a long time to stick to the genre.

[Ossos]

If you are an "Old School" MMO player, you are not the target audience.

 

I've been raging about class balance, dynamics, FP and Ops dynamics, the responsiveness of the game, even the responsiveness of the tab function.

 

When you take a step back, realizing that everything is functioning as intended, you have to wonder if this is a game for you. Just like certain types of music has a target audience, so do games. I believe, as far as MMOs go, "old school" MMO players are not the target audience.

 

This game is geared towards teens, not High School grads on their way to college, not college students or people of that age, nor is it geared toward twenty or thirty somethings who like to jump into an MMO a few nights a week and enjoy some escapism.

 

I think they have a solid product (well, decent one) it's just not geared to what was (up until a few years ago) the typical MMO player.

[Frobisher]

Didn't mean for this to be a bash SWTOR thread. And if you think SWOTR isn't polished, then you never played those early MMOs a couple of months in

 

Its more pondering why the big name MMOs don't seem to drfit away from the EQ style MMO after all these years.

 

I've seen some go in with big intentions (Age of Conan for example), yet when the game starts hitting Alpha and closed testing I saw some unique elements slow morph into the familar gameplay and by the end of Beta the whole thing end up in the all to familar format.

 

SWOTR brings something new (well newish) to the MMO, storytelling. But at its core its not far removed from earlier generation MMOs in terms of gameplay. Yet other MMOs that have tried to differ (eg Tabla Rasa....the FPS/MMO hybrid) crash and burn early on.

 

So gameplay not evolving seems to be not an issue caused by "lazy" Devs, but by Devs trying to cater to the market (as other options are financial suicide). Static gameplay is caused by the customer.

 

I remember an interesting discussion with some of the Devs in the early days of AoC. The subject of dynamic worlds was being discussed with player actions actually affecting the gameworld in a major manner. The Devs countered that thay loved all the ideas that were brought up, yet in an MMO you have to offer each player exactly the same chance, the same experience, or players get unhappy and cry foul. Or basically its the playerbase that stymies new directions at times.

 

Devs think long and hard about the development, and probably as much thought goes into player psychology as designing a new graphics engine, They are the professionals at this. So if they design something thats seems to play in a similar manner as other MMOs then basically its because the playerbase as a whole demands it.

 

So I guess you'll always have a few malcontents drifting around the edges of things. And I guess an MMO player does have an 'lifespan' with players drfting away due to work, family, even boredom. And I'm sure this sort of thing has been brought up many times in MMO think-tanks et al.

 

I want to love SWTOR, these nothing wrong with SWOTR. Yet I'm not logging in much.

 

On old MMO games, one of the main hooks in maintaining a player of an extended period is basically the Community. Some get hooked by playing with guildmates, some even get hooked on the message boards

 

Dunno I guess this is the thing that seems to be missing. MMOs like EQ and UO you grouped up because you had to. The gameplay just wouldn't let you solo. Games like SWG had hard core crafting communities, EVE its corporations. Grouping was manditory. But solo players hated to be forced to group.

 

Instancing is partly to blame, but then I also remember the frustrations of non instanced games where ppl would camp a spot in a queue to fight some of the monsters. I remember we were in a queue for nearly a week before fighting a certain EQ Boss (who I'll not name). I doubt even the most seasoned MMO player would stand for this these days.

 

So there's no easy answers

Edited February 19, 2012 by Frobisher