People leaving wz is now out of control.

[DirtyJef]

This will probably remain "out of control" for a great number of reasons. Unfortunately, the best solution I can think of requires a pretty big man-hour investment by the developers, which is a cross-server que (to bring enough population to the que initially), and a map and/or gametype filter (to stop players from ending up in the gametypes they would normally quit). I'll admit, I've quit plenty of huttball matches (though I decide whether or not to stay immediately, and it has nothing to do with winning or losing, but rather my general opinion of the gametype). I'd rather just Not Que for huttball, but the lack of map/type filter had forced my hand.

 

Often there aren't Just team-oriented players in this game. Many players prefer to que solo, and would probably prefer to fight solo as well. I know the community seems to think that team-only multiplay "forces people to learn their class"... but I dare each and every one of you to find a pvp oriented mmo forum without a reference to "how bad people are at pvp" or whatever. It doesn't work. It doesn't force people to learn a class or team role, and in fact, it probably holds them down.

 

Players are now expected to:

 

1. Know the game's elusive mechanics
   
2. Know the classes' vaguely defined strengths and weaknesses
   
3. Know all their own cooldowns
   
4. Know a general ability priority for the class's role
   
5. Know specific goal-oriented ability priorities
   
6. Know team positioning
   
7. Know interdependent strengths and weaknesses with other classes
   
8. Know adjusted ability priorities according to partner classes (both general and goal-oriented)
   
9. Know target selection priorities for their own and other classes
   
10. Know both general and goal-oriented ability priorities and strategies for enemy classes
    
11. Know effective ability counters against enemy classes
    
12. Use all their knowledge in favor of the team instead of themselves, when the two interests conflict
    
13. Learn all of these things without ever having been in a situation where 3-7 other players depend on you to have already learned how to play the game, and have already geared for your tier of team content
    

 

 

Did I miss anything? (rhetorical, I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff)...

 

Point is, the lack of cross server que downsizes the community to the point where you have little choice... Don't play warzones, or play warzone maps and gametypes you hate with people you can't stand to be around, either because they have a horrible attitude or are simply not as progressed in terms of skill and gear as you are.

 

Instead of pretending like there Is no progression, and that everyone Obviously likes Every map you make, try and build the game to service the reality instead.

 

Instanced-PvP needed a map filter, for starters, but could've also used a progressive unlock series as well (to go along with the actual player progression of skill and gear). For instance, in order of availability, based on a certain number of wins, you could have:

 

1v1 arena matches,

3 man FFA matches,

4 man FFA matches and 2v2 team matches (tdm only)

5 man FFA matches and 2v2 team matches (introduction to capture and hold)

6 man FFA matches and 3v3 team matches (expanding team size)

7 man FFA matches and 3v3 team matches (introduction to assault, i.e. voidstar type maps)

8 man FFA matches and 4v4 team matches (expanding team size)

9 man FFA matches and 4v4 team matches (intro to huttball)

 

and so on, adding maps and players until you get to 16 man FFA and 8v8 team, requiring in each tier/type branch a certain number of wins in the tier/type that came before, and allowing all players to que for the lower tiers as well as the latest they've unlocked.

 

This would Actually force players to learn, instead of just making them feel like they shouldn't even bother to begin with, and would allow players to avoid ques for types/sizes they don't particularly enjoy.

 

Again, this requires a pretty big investment of man hours, as a larger que population is required to support this kind of thing... but it would rid of some excuses for quitting.

 

After all of that, a small consequence could be imposed for quitting, though it seems like the only thing that should be necessary is the mark it leaves on a simple wins/plays ratio (no exceptions, no loss tracking, just number of joins and number of wins for stat tracking), so that quits and losses count the same, at best, save you time, at the risk that you're missing out on a comeback win by your team.

 

Also, personally, I'd love for the ignore thing to keep you out of warzones with d'bags, the same way it works with group finder. Certain people just don't belong in social situations at all, even a video game with nothing more than a chatbox to call "social interaction"... Nerdragers suck the fun right out of MMOs (and scare off any potential new customers to replace the Nerdragers previous income, before he realized he'd reached end-game and dropped to preferred status).

Edited August 28, 2014 by DirtyJef

[shyroman]

Did you bother checking the date of the last post? There were plenty of new threads in the past few weeks that you could've commented on instead.

[DirtyJef]

Should I move/reference this post to another thread?

[shyroman]

No, too late now, but for future references, look back at threads in the past few weeks, and add onto those, if you can't find any from recently, start a new thread because with most topics, arguments change over time because of game changes.

[DirtyJef]

Heard.

[Viperswhip]

Well, if I don't want to play a warzone (Hutball) I quit as soon as I arrive. I don't get the point in leaving. In Arena, the other day, we lost the first match pretty badly and two left, and in the second match, nobody joined, so it was just the two of us. Why leave? Might as well get a completion under your belt.

 

In Starfighter last weekend we lost a match 50 to 1. Should have seen the cheering going on when our team finally got one, right near the end. Nobody left. I guess we were losing so badly it was funny.

 

I see people leave Alderaan if the other team gets two turrets, yet consistently those end up being epic fights we can actually win. I don't get it.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Viperswhip

[Icykill_]

Well, if I don't want to play a warzone (Hutball) I quit as soon as I arrive. I don't get the point in leaving. In Arena, the other day, we lost the first match pretty badly and two left, and in the second match, nobody joined, so it was just the two of us. Why leave? Might as well get a completion under your belt.

 

In Starfighter last weekend we lost a match 50 to 1. Should have seen the cheering going on when our team finally got one, right near the end. Nobody left. I guess we were losing so badly it was funny.

 

I see people leave Alderaan if the other team gets two turrets, yet consistently those end up being epic fights we can actually win. I don't get it.

 

Have to agree 100%

If you don't like a WZ you should leave as soon as you pop into it... Not after it starts

People leaving arena after the first clash because they die is stupid... Even if you lose the next one it will be over quick, you get your comms, XP, complete a WZ if doing a daily... It has no negative effect on you unless you are playing ranked...also there really is no proper back fill if someone leaves, so you end up with 2v4 or 1v4

It also amuses me when people leave an objective based WZ like Alderaan because the other team gets 2 turrets... Do they want the match to be an easy steam roll for them... Some of the most epic battles are when the game changes back and forth as you recapture those turrets ... Although I do find that the people who leave these are usually the worst players, can't stand to lose or need the team to carry them... so when they do leave your team has a good chance of getting someone better and winning... Hopefully they leave early on before it's too late

I have been in many matches when these bad players rage quit, only to get competent players and we go onto win

I also find it amusing when it gets down to the last 30-10secs of the match and people rage quit... It makes no sense... It doesn't effect any real stats... All they are doing is gimping themselves of comms and XP

 

All that being said, Bio should introduce a system similar to WoW and other games that penalise you for leaving and then re queue... 15-30mins is the normal time for this...

To stop people leaving as they pop in, Bio could either show on the accept WZ pop what the WZ is or allow you to queue for specific ones or at least split them into categories... Ie arena, objective, sport (Hutt ball)

 

 

.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

Sure, balanced competition is hard to create in an MMORPG, but that's really not the issue as warzones now are being pillaged as a gear grind, not as a form of competition for most players.

 

I totally agree. Instead of pvp being a matter of "may the best man win", it has turned into a matter of "may the best gear win!"

It defeats the purpose of pvp.

[DariusCalera]

All that being said, Bio should introduce a system similar to WoW and other games that penalise you for leaving and then re queue... 15-30mins is the normal time for this...

To stop people leaving as they pop in, Bio could either show on the accept WZ pop what the WZ is or allow you to queue for specific ones or at least split them into categories... Ie arena, objective, sport (Hutt ball)

.

 

If you penalize, I want a guarantee that in 55s I won't be teamed up with people running around only in shells (which I've seen more than a few times recently), that people have a form/cylinder activated, are using the correct gear (i.e no using cunning gear if you're a sith or merc) and with a advanced class actually chosen. I would also like a guarantee that I won't see mercs, maras, and sorcs running around with tanking items on because "They help me live longer."

 

If you can not guarantee me that, then no, you can't penalize me for leaving.

[Icykill_]

If you penalize, I want a guarantee that in 55s I won't be teamed up with people running around only in shells (which I've seen more than a few times recently), that people have a form/cylinder activated, are using the correct gear (i.e no using cunning gear if you're a sith or merc) and with a advanced class actually chosen. I would also like a guarantee that I won't see mercs, maras, and sorcs running around with tanking items on because "They help me live longer."

 

If you can not guarantee me that, then no, you can't penalize me for leaving.

 

Leave before it starts... You only need to inspect their gear

 

 

.

[Icykill_]

I totally agree. Instead of pvp being a matter of "may the best man win", it has turned into a matter of "may the best gear win!"

It defeats the purpose of pvp.

 

That is absolute rubbish... Bio introduced Bolster to basically make it skill based... Unless your in Ranked... Gear is not that important as long as you follow a couple of simple rules to maximise your bolster and stats

 

Lvl 55 only... Don't use PVE gear over 162... You will get negative bolster

Aim to use purple 156-162 gear... This can be tweaked a little if you can be bothered

Augment all items you aren't going to upgrade

Don't use pvp weapons or OH

Don't put/mix expertise mods etc into PVE gear.. That tells the server you already have expertise on that piece and will not bolster it

Get your relics first

Start converting pvp comms to ranked from lvl 40 so you can buy ranked relics straight away

Bolster will take care of the rest... You should get between 1800-1900 expertise with it... Plus an increase in stats

Make sure you have used the right mix of mods etc to get your stats right

You can also go to the bolster terminal on the fleet ops ship (bridge lvl) to check and tweak your stats

If you can be bothered get all the stat datacrons for your class

 

Then as you play you can start to gather pvp armor... Until you get your set bonus... Personally I don't always use all pvp gear, but use a mix depending on the class

 

Refer to this thread for a better understanding of bolstering gear... The beginnings a bit old... Go to the end and move back through to get up to date info http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707204

 

To sum up, pvp is now as close to skill vs skill, than gear vs skill... If your getting smashed you need to improve your own skill lvl

 

 

.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

That is absolute rubbish... Bio introduced Bolster to basically make it skill based... Unless your in Ranked... Gear is not that important as long as you follow a couple of simple rules to maximise your bolster and stats

 

Lvl 55 only... Don't use PVE gear over 162... You will get negative bolster

Aim to use purple 156-162 gear... This can be tweaked a little if you can be bothered

Augment all items you aren't going to upgrade

Don't use pvp weapons or OH

Don't put/mix expertise mods etc into PVE gear.. That tells the server you already have expertise on that piece and will not bolster it

Get your relics first

Start converting pvp comms to ranked from lvl 40 so you can buy ranked relics straight away

Bolster will take care of the rest... You should get between 1800-1900 expertise with it... Plus an increase in stats

Make sure you have used the right mix of mods etc to get your stats right

You can also go to the bolster terminal on the fleet ops ship (bridge lvl) to check and tweak your stats

If you can be bothered get all the stat datacrons for your class

 

Then as you play you can start to gather pvp armor... Until you get your set bonus... Personally I don't always use all pvp gear, but use a mix depending on the class

 

Refer to this thread for a better understanding of bolstering gear... The beginnings a bit old... Go to the end and move back through to get up to date info http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707204

 

To sum up, pvp is now as close to skill vs skill, than gear vs skill... If your getting smashed you need to improve your own skill lvl

 

 

.

 

Thanks for the info:). I needed that since I do not really keep up with these things.

[SkyLordJaden]

hello and welcome...

 

if you just joined us we're talking about warzone leavers and quitters that don't think the next patch should be added cause life isn't fair!

 

here come their stories!

 

I agree. I stick through my wz's and only leave if something actually comes up in real life. Idk how the new patch affects this but I'm all for it either way

[DariusCalera]

Leave before it starts... You only need to inspect their gear

 

 

.

 

Except, sometimes, you get added late with no time to inspect players. All you have is name recognition of players that do the things that I listed.

 

Are you willing to give players that are late or back fills a grace period at which to leave the WZ and not incur a lockout?

 

If not, and more than likely if someone is not enjoying the WZ this is going to happen anyway if a lock out is added, you're going to have people just go AFK while guarding a node or run off someplace to hide and do crafting missions.

 

I really don't mind if people drop WZs, everyone has a different level of tolerance for when things go bad. Some reach it sooner than others and they stop having fun. I'd rather have someone that wants to be there than forcing people to stay and listen to their complaining in the chat.

[Tellenn]

Bioware would prefer to let people leave unbalanced matches than bring in any form of matchmaking.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

All the reasons people were leaving beforehand are amplified a hundred fold since the implementation of the housing patch.

 

Regs are total trash at the moment.

[VdFExarKun]

The fault is not the system. It's the people.

 

I joined couple of days ago a Quesh Huttball with a guildmate, we got into a losing team, that was already behind by just 1 point and when we joined, we were only 5 ppl in our team and the enemy team was about to score right when we jumped out of the spawn. We prevented the imminent second point in the last second.

 

There were other people joining our team and also leaving it again, after some time nobody wanted to leave anymore. Why? Because we were winning.

My guildmate and I turned this Huttball around in some epic fashion and won at the end with 6:1.

Although the enemy team had an early lead, we made sure of it that they would not score again.

 

My point of this? Being behind from the start or something doesn't mean anything, you got more time in a warzone than you need to turn it around. An obvious win or loss is more than often not what it seems.

 

You just have to fight for it and not to quit it.

[chillshock]

Leavers stink.

Being punished for a disconnect stinks, too.

If disconnects don't get punished but exiting does, the leavers would just alt+f4.

 

Solution? I fail to see a plausible one, beyond inspiring people to stay. Maybe a quitter debuff that 'eats' 50% of the reward of the next warzone? Not too harsh on the disconnected ones, but still stinks. And while it would still punish people for having crap connections (like me) it would eliminate all use of quitting because it's a loss. On - maybe quitting a warzone should port you to a random openpvp area instead of "where you came from".

[ThorgrimLutgen]

The fault is not the system. It's the people.

 

I joined couple of days ago a Quesh Huttball with a guildmate, we got into a losing team, that was already behind by just 1 point and when we joined, we were only 5 ppl in our team and the enemy team was about to score right when we jumped out of the spawn. We prevented the imminent second point in the last second.

 

There were other people joining our team and also leaving it again, after some time nobody wanted to leave anymore. Why? Because we were winning.

My guildmate and I turned this Huttball around in some epic fashion and won at the end with 6:1.

Although the enemy team had an early lead, we made sure of it that they would not score again.

 

My point of this? Being behind from the start or something doesn't mean anything, you got more time in a warzone than you need to turn it around. An obvious win or loss is more than often not what it seems.

 

You just have to fight for it and not to quit it.

 

HB being the only exception to the rule, where anyone, "generally" can be ok at it, irrespective of gear, experience etc, if they play the game correctly.

 

Everything else, I inspect them. Not interested in gear so much but rather their achievements Tab. I can see how much PVP they have played compared to how much PVE they have played, and usually my desire to stay is based around my findings.

[TheNahash]

If your idea of fun is getting farmed by a premade, while your undergeared PVE teammates run around like headless chicken and it takes 5 of them to kill one of the opposing team's players, please stay in the WZ.

 

If you find joy in people trying (and failing miserably) to get the second pylon in Hypergates while your own is getting attacked or 5-6 of them going over to one of the side turrets to fight 1-2 people in Civil War, then by all means wait for the game to be over.

 

If your teammates have such an utter lack of respect for PVPers that find it perfectly acceptable to enter WZs with 1000 expertise or in full Battlemaster gear, then good luck!

 

 

I'll leave every damn time and there's no type of "punishment" that's going to stop me from doing so.

Allow us to choose what we queue for (WZs/Arenas/Both), make sure premades only go up against other premades and fix bolster to work even with older PVP pieces and then we can revisit the idea of staying in a doomed WZ.

Edited August 29, 2014 by TheNahash

[Jayshames]

Did you bother checking the date of the last post? There were plenty of new threads in the past few weeks that you could've commented on instead.

 

Date makes no difference. It's still an issue.

[Vember]

Well you've got premades abusing the queue to get their entire group into matches against pugs, so I don't blame people for leaving. Night before last on harbinger, somehow the entire enemy team was composed of a bunch of carebears from a Pub guild called Wrath of something who were out to pugstomp. By the time the match ended, I think I was the only original person left on my team.

 

I only stayed because I just needed one more to finish the daily, but why bother putting up with that ****? I didn't blame a single person that left that match.

[Tellenn]

Well you've got premades abusing the queue to get their entire group into matches against pugs, so I don't blame people for leaving. Night before last on harbinger, somehow the entire enemy team was composed of a bunch of carebears from a Pub guild called Wrath of something who were out to pugstomp. By the time the match ended, I think I was the only original person left on my team.

 

I only stayed because I just needed one more to finish the daily, but why bother putting up with that ****? I didn't blame a single person that left that match.

 

They aren't abusing anything there is no queue system. The way bioware deal with not having the time to fix it is to allow people to just leave. If BW didn't want people to leave then you wouldn't have the option. It clearly another example of taking the easiest option.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tellenn

[Wudnin]

They aren't abusing anything there is no queue system. The way bioware deal with not having the time to fix it is to allow people to just leave. If BW didn't want people to leave then you wouldn't have the option. It clearly another example of taking the easiest option.

 

They are abusing it and have for a very long time now. While I do not condone quitters I can still understand why in some cases they'd leave. Being continously farmed by premade group(s) can take a toll on you, especially when you and your team have no chance nor the resources in many cases to fight back. It has been suggested to split Premades and PUGs apart, and I still suggest it should be done. Premades do abuse and steamroll PUGs for easy medals and gear, I know this because I've done it myself with my guild and friends. And it happens because thecurrent PvP system is allowing it to happen, Bioware has allowed this to go unchecked and take root and they're to blame in the end.

 

SWTOR is so far one the very few games imo who've failed to successfully implement PvP for everybody, especially PUGs, and instead of a fun, enjoyable PvP content to enjoy, they've ended up making it into a painful grindfest for the unfortunate people, while the fortunate few bask in the glory of being well geared and feed on the rest. I don't blame people for leaving when being continously steamrolled by Premades, they're simply responding to an already flawed and broken PvP system that allows the few, fortunate folks to feed on the rest.

[sauerkraut]

Maybe separating PUGs from Premades and allowing people to chose the WZ they want, would help a lot.