What Defines A "Casual" Player To You?

[Kallman]

Now you're saying I don't understand when clearly I understand everything, I have the overview and I can see the whole game, from the microbits up. And then you ask me to read, again you make all kinds of assumptions, you assume I am reading these forums but actually I am receiving and transmitting via special astrological charts.

 

 

I got to agree, think you misunderstood. You seem to be agreeing yet arguing as if there was an disagreement.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sireene
reply to edited post

[Holden_Dissent]

Usually people associate a certain degree of accomplishment with the term "hardcore" so someone can't be both a bad player and a hardcore player.

 

Unfortunately that's the wrong way to think. Considering I've known tons of hardcores who were so bad at easy games.

[DieAlteHexe]

BECAUSE the TRADITIONAL audience of mmorpgs is one that .. doesn't have a life as u people just want to genrealize...

 

im not saying not to cater to "casuals" however why cater predominantly for these clients when the product was originally meant for another audience? a less casual one.

 

a game that puts together both of these ways of playing is good, one that does only one of the two.. well at this point of mmorpgs, just isnt.. this goes both ways. its nice to provide lots of solo content for casuals, but not providing sufficient content in end game is just not catering for those who always loved the genre and always were there...

 

but sure play by yourself and all other players who can just play couple hours a week, you'll find servers would be empty all the time and goodbye to your "ongoing world" sensation.

 

if you want to play mmorpgs your gonna have to deal with its "old comunity" and possibly learn to interact with them...

 

Y'know what, Sasha? I have probably been playing MMOs longer than most. I started with UO (well, MUDs before that) and have tried most all of 'em since, played a few of them for quite awhile so please, stop assuming you know me and my thinking. Also you might want to give over on slinging blame around when you're not sure of who you might hit.

 

I AM the old community. I have played the original EQ for years. It was fun, in its own way but it was very very time consuming. It was the only game in town for quite awhile. It really wasn't 'til WoW came along that a LOT of people were exposed to MMOs and yes, things changed BIG TIME due to WoW. And it can be argued for the good or the bad. That's another discussion.

 

As for learning to "interact" with people, this fallacy about solo'ers not interacting needs to go just as badly as the fallacy about people who love to raid are jerks who will sell their mothers for better gear. BOTH are extremes and can be chucked aside for what they are...extremes. The majority fall somewhere in the middle.

 

Now, all that said...I think it is imperative for a gaming company to do their research, dig through their metrics to see just what content is being consumed by what number of players. If they don't, they're fools which leads me to think that this paradigm shift to the (sorry) more "casual" focus is due to there being a bigger call for that type of game. These companies are in the business to make money and they are going to do what they need to to get and keep as many subscribers as they can.

 

This is frustrating for those who are of the "previously traditional" mindset. I get that. I made my peace with it once I realised that WoW had completely changed the face of MMOs. It was either that or be perma-pissed. I chose to roll with the punches and keep my eye open for something that differed from the formulaic.

 

I do not, however, denigrate those who do like the formulaic. I do not denigrate those who live min/max or who want to run about counting how many trees are in a zone. They all pay their money just as I do.

 

And above all I've found it is not wise to try to pigeon-hole gamers. This very thread shows how slippery it is to try and come up with something as seemingly simple as "what is casual".

 

The old days are gone unless and until some gaming company with mega-bucks decides to buck the formula that has proven to be wildly successful. For those that are irritated with that...you truly do have my sympathies. You all should band together, get some talent, financing and make a "traditional" MMO. I do believe there are enough people to keep it afloat.

[Jalliah]

Generally these characteristics apply to casual players:

 

1) They play the game for entertainment purposes. They might enjoy success and want to progress, but if it isn't fun, they won't play.

 

2) They put Real Life ahead of Gaming. They might call themselves gamers, but when they have a big Exam the next day, or their kid is crying, or their wife winks at them in a special way...the raid boss can wait for another day.

 

3) They have less time to play. Typically, they just have less free time because of their school, jobs, wives and children. Sometimes they have the free time, but this game is only a small part of the fun things they like to do.

 

The misnomer is that Casual players are automatically "bads". Which is utterly false. I've played with great casual players and terribad "Hardcore" players that just have a lot of time on their hands and like to act like they know what their doing, but can't actually press buttons in a timely manner...

 

1) Implied in this comment is that hardcore's don't or won't play if it's not 'fun'. Don't think this really works because what's fun is subjective. Some people might grind or do things to progress that others don't find fun but they do. The fun is getting through the grind and meeting whatever ever goal, or piece of gear or boss kill in the end.

 

2) Too me this just describes the difference between an addict or obsessive and someone who has priorities straight. Who approaches whatever game with a mature attitude meaning they're not going to screw up other things in their lives because of a game. This could apply to anything that people take seriously and put time into. People that approach

a game in a casual or a hardcore way can do this.

 

I would be considered hardcore by many in another game I play, I min/max, read tables, raid up to 5 nights a week and will willingly spend three hours wiping on one boss. I consider it a hobby I have fun at. My guild is quite serious about progression and works hard at it.

However if something is happening outside of the game with me or others then we don't play and no one gets upset if someone takes a raid night off to go to a party or whatever. We're not obsessed to the point of cutting everything else out.

 

Last week, during the middle of a boss that we have been working on for a couple of weeks I found out a friend died. One of my jobs was key. Everyone was 'go, go we'll work around it." It wouldn't even have occured to anyone to stay. To me if staying after this happened was some sort of defining factor of not being 'hardcore' or 'serious' about it then that's messed up. You can be 'hardcore' about a game but not stupid and inmature in your approach to it as one of the things you do in your life.

[areto]

I got to agree, think you misunderstood. You seem to be agreeing yet arguing as if there was an disagreement.

 

There is a disagreement my friend.

 

It is between you and I. You seem to think I am capable of misunderstanding. I know I am not. I understand fully the caterwauling of that false diplomat, on the one hand preaching understanding but on the other hand subtly undermining his own words with his plain hatred of people who aren't alive, and even trash, a thing renowned for it's meekness.

 

But I can see you too have been planning this too pronged attack for years now and it's only come to fruition in these last few minutes.

[Strawwberry]

im not saying not to cater to "casuals" however why cater predominantly for these clients when the product was originally meant for another audience? a less casual one.

This particular product was designed specifically for non-hardcores as they make up the majority of gamers these days. The old-school hardcores never were big in numbers and big-budget games are out to make big profits. Perhaps it is these players that should be playing a different game. You know, like a sandbox MMO. This is themepark, which as far as I can tell is not what old-school was ever about. I wouldn't know for sure as I never played an MMO before 1.5 years ago, but that seems to be my impression from talking to (and learning from) those who have played MMOs for 10 years or so.

 

 

That's not to say this game shouldn't have more (and more difficult) end-game content but that is an entirely different discussion.

 

And just so you know i'm not coming down on you specifically... it bugs the crap out of me when self-proclaimed "casuals" call those who have been at 50 for weeks now, no-life losers. I'd say most hardcore players put the same effort into their RL as they do in the game.

 

 

My definition, which seems to gel with a lot of others in this thread, is that casual has absolutely nothing to do with skill level. It is simply the attitude towards the game in that one doesn't schedule their life around the game, rather they fit the game in whenever they can. This can be 5 hours a week or 5 hours a day.

 

Will those who play 5 hours a day have more skills than those 5 hours a week? Most likely, but only because practice makes perfect. On the other hand, there are those who only have 5 hours in a week to play, yet they can kick butt in PVP, and pug into an OPs group and not mess up at all. They are few and far between though.

[DieAlteHexe]

And why should level 50s not be able to ask for more content? Of course casual players can play, nothing is preventing them from doing so. But instead of complaining about more content for "Hardcore players" on forum, why not just focus on playing it instead of spending time telling others how this game is intended for casual players.

 

Gah! Who says they shouldn't? I certainly don't. I do think the game is intended for casual players. No doubt about that from where I sit. I guess to me, wanting a game to be something it patently isn't, is kind of like micturating upwind. No one wins, they only get wet. But asking? I have no problem with that at all. It's the tempermental tantrums when they (both sides here, actually) don't GET what they ask for that irks me.

 

Casual players have their content and will probably have so for years to come because they are casual and don`t have time for anything else.. they got all they could ever want at the moment. Good for them.. However with the limited time available to them, they should surly spend less time on forum telling other people to find another game because they got what they want from the game.

 

See, I don't buy the "casual" as being a "time" thing. To me it's an attitude/mindset. To me, though, the coming to a game that is patently casual and hollerin' for it to be something it isn't is kinda like going to a steakhouse and ranting cos there's no Chinese on the menu. Sure, you CAN do it but...well...likelihood of any major shifts occuring are slim.

 

Go kill Blizzard. It really is their fault.

[Jalliah]

Yea that would take a whole new topic. Something to the effect of 'what constitutes a life'. Is the guy with more to do outside the one with a better life than say, the guy who stays indoors more with his life? Like, say the carpenter has MORE of a life than the guy who works in an office? Is the guy who is tied down by a wife, kids and a 60 hour a week job to make the ends meet better than the guy who is a bachelor shagging tons of women, has no kids and makes twice as much money only working 30 hrs a week?

 

It is quite a question and one I am sure most of these guys that fling around such terms couldn't answer themselves. It would need a whole new thread and then, I doubt if we could ever figure it out.

 

 

Very good point. The whole hardcore's or serious gamers or whatever word you what to use 'don't have a life' always amuses me. Yeah sure some fit the 'basement dweller' stereotype most stereotypes have at least a few people that fit into them.

 

I play games a lot. I like playing games. I take them pretty seriously at times. Probably spend 40+ hours a week on some sort of game. I also am married with no relationship issues, I own a house, I have a family which I see regularly, I do volunteer work, I have no problem talking to people and am financially sound because I worked in my 'life' to be so. I couldn't be more happy. It just so happens that I choose computer games as something to put a lot of time into. I could of chosen painting, or model planes, or chess, or furniture making or classic cars or basket making or or or..... (hmm well actually I am learning how to weave baskets and taking it seriously enough to actually spend quite of bit of money planting willow for the mats.. so.... )

 

I work my life around things that I like to do so I can spend more time doing things I like rather then things I don't like. To me that is having a life and part of the point of this whole 'life' thing. Why wouldn't people make that a goal?

 

Now my 'life' might not constitute what someone else would consider a 'life' or a great life but I'm happy with it even if for some it must be horrible because I spend a lot of it playing on my computer. lol

Edited February 17, 2012 by Jalliah

[Waadus]

I don't think time restraints is the only factor here, how would you define these player?

 

Player A: He logs in and plays ell the time, he is online if he is not working or sleeping yet he hasn't hit the cap yet. He plays non stop and has a blast doing what he does but is never really efficient in anything he does.

 

Player B: He plays a little less time, he usually plays 2 to 3 hours in the evenings and a little more on the weekends. His goals at the start was to determine which class he likes best before taking it to level 50 so he has just about every class at level 20 and recently decided on one and in a 7 day span he's hit Level 41 and pushing to hit 50 this weekend.

 

Player C: He plays roughly 3 hours in the evenings and quite a bit more on the weekends and was the first to hit Level 50. He has all of his upgrades that he can get from the dailies but nothing from the flashpoints yet because he is patiently waiting on the rest of the guild to catch up so they can run them together.

 

Player D: He rushed to 50 and once he got there and realized that it would be several weeks before anyone made it to cap he left in search of greener pastures.

 

How would you define each of these? Also, would time constraints really alter the outcome?

 

Also, the guild will be raiding and we will make sure each and every one on this list get's to raid, we will work with Player A and make him more Efficient and if Player D types end up leaving we will bring in another to replace him. We will push each and every one of us to get better and progress at a fairly decent pace (This isn't the first setup like this we've managed and it does work) We will probably raid 3 nights each week for 2 to 3 hours at a time. How would you define the guild in general?

[Degarmo]

There are no casual or hardcore gamers, only people of varying skill levels who emphasize different facets of gameplay.

[gtmach]

I think the debate between them deals with time, and sadly that's an eternal debate.

 

MMO content is generally "dumbed down" for casuals (and I use the term as it is frequently used in forums).

 

The reason being is that difficult content takes time to complete. If people could fail a few times and figure it out after that we'd be set. But everyone takes his/her own time to figure things out. Hence the trial and error should be limited to appease the "casual" base.

 

My definition of a casual is the "pick-up-and-play" type. By that I mean the type who don't schedule their daily lives around the game, but instead log in when they have some free time and do whatever they want.

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, after reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I have no idea what category I fit into.

 

I think I'll just be a gamer.

 

Has been really interesting, though, to see all the input. I'm glad I decided to venture into the thread.

 

Enjoy the weekend, folks, casual or otherwise.

[SushaBrancaleone]

You claim the post you quoted generalise the hardcore players as being people with no lives, it might be a generalisation but i think there are something to that generelisation.

you then start to tell that the peopel who were "always there" only are the hardcore community, well ive got a newsflash for you, the casual players have been and are as much as part of the mmo community as you are and have been for just as long, its just two different ways of approching gaming and i think there should be room for both, no reason to devide the two and try to segregate them, its just the sort of narrow minded bs that casuses more trouble then good, who told you to be the judge of what is wrong or right when it comes to ways of playing. If the hardcore community cant tolerate players with a different way of playing the mmo´s , well then go find your own private servers and leave the game to people who enjoy the game just as much as you do but just go about it in a different way, those casual players that you have such a difficult time tolerating that by the way altso are paying just as much to play you do, and as such have the same rights to go about it in their way, who the H*** do you think you are to tell others how to play the game they have payed for just as much as you and who have kept the MMO´s as much alive as you!.

 

 

youve never heard of EVE and hardcore ganking have you? or have you heard about that girl on eve who was ganked and made a 6 month long revenge, infiltrated the offending guild, became officer, got access to all their banks, and then cancled items for an amount of aprox 20k $, and then drew into a trap the offending guild which was smashed to smitherines by her real guild when they warped out of light speed?

 

btw i stopped playing eve after a week when i got ganked by the real HC gamers... or the real ELitists..

 

anyways i think your just trolling ill just say, that usually products that widen their audiences from their target audience, usually have to stay within a certain limit of the orginal mandate.. as for example, it is ok to draw in new elements to the new transformer movies so to draw in lets say new kids, but would u widen it as much as lets say stick in mini ponies in the movie too so you can also get a share of the 80s girl audience? nah i dont think so.. but who knows maybe u have a point.

[SushaBrancaleone]

"I AM the old community. I have played the original EQ for years. It was fun, in its own way but it was very very time consuming. It was the only game in town for quite awhile. It really wasn't 'til WoW came along that a LOT of people were exposed to MMOs and yes, things changed BIG TIME due to WoW. And it can be argued for the good or the bad. That's another discussion."

 

dude seriosuly and ure accusing me of making assumptions on who or what u are? "I am the comunity!" lol...

 

anyways.

1 have no idea why you think this conversation is about you. it isn't i dont know who u are and honestly.. dont care. the conversation is specifically about the topic being adressed, NOT about YOU...

 

2 i dont think you understood what i was saying tbh... just to put it simple: both comunities should coexist is what i said..

IF you didnt have the time to pick up the sarcasm in my wording and misunderstood the sense of what was being said... well....

Edited February 17, 2012 by SushaBrancaleone

[Supahhappy]

To me, if they aren't getting payed to play the game, they are a casual.

[Gomuningen]

Generally these characteristics apply to casual players:

 

1) They play the game for entertainment purposes. They might enjoy success and want to progress, but if it isn't fun, they won't play.

 

2) They put Real Life ahead of Gaming. They might call themselves gamers, but when they have a big Exam the next day, or their kid is crying, or their wife winks at them in a special way...the raid boss can wait for another day.

 

3) They have less time to play. Typically, they just have less free time because of their school, jobs, wives and children. Sometimes they have the free time, but this game is only a small part of the fun things they like to do.

 

The misnomer is that Casual players are automatically "bads". Which is utterly false. I've played with great casual players and terribad "Hardcore" players that just have a lot of time on their hands and like to act like they know what their doing, but can't actually press buttons in a timely manner...

 

Thank you for your fine post.... especially the last paragraph.

[DieAlteHexe]

"I AM the old community. I have played the original EQ for years. It was fun, in its own way but it was very very time consuming. It was the only game in town for quite awhile. It really wasn't 'til WoW came along that a LOT of people were exposed to MMOs and yes, things changed BIG TIME due to WoW. And it can be argued for the good or the bad. That's another discussion."

 

dude seriosuly and ure accusing me of making assumptions on who or what u are? "I am the comunity!" lol...

 

Yup, I left out a word there, it should read I am OF the old community.

 

anyways.

1 have no idea why you think this conversation is about you. it isn't i dont know who u are and honestly.. dont care. the conversation is specifically about the topic being adressed, NOT about YOU...

 

I've no idea why you think I do? I'm expressing my opinions on the subject matter.

 

2 i dont think you understood what i was saying tbh... just to put it simple: both comunities should coexist is what i said..

IF you didnt have the time to pick up the sarcasm in my wording and misunderstood the sense of what was being said... well....

 

Yes, they should coexist but until people stop screaming at one and other it won't and slapping labels on one and other, it won't. And the chances of that happening? Not very high. This divisive behaviour has been going on since online gaming has existed. The fact that the "traditional" MMO is moribund is not likely to change. The tide has turned. It is what it is.

 

Time to play...casually. Enjoy the weekend!

Edited February 17, 2012 by DieAlteHexe

[TheRainstater]

Casual to me is some one who plays when they want and how they want for the pure enjoyment of the game.

 

To a casual player the game as a whole is fun and exciting while a to a "hard core" lol or a "grinder" the end game competition is fun and they skip most content to quickly reach end game.

 

Casual is a broad term. A casual player to me can still want the best of the best gear and are will ing to put the needed effort into achieving their goals.

 

A casual player can still be as good as a hard core or grinder in both PvE and PvP.

 

A casual player can still invest the same amount of time as a hard core grinder they just invest it differently.

[SixLombardi]

I think not knowing what most of this means makes me a casual player.

 

Some "casual" players (numbers unknown) are ex-hardcores who burned out on the click-n-go loot piñata race for item level supremacy being a 2nd full-time job. No more grinding 20+ dailies and heroics. No more farming 2 nights a week to support raids. No more 4 hour wipe nights 3 times a week with multiple back-to-back 6 hour boss grinds on the weekends.

[IceManLoneWolf]

Casuals play when they have time after RL-issues.

Hardcore plan RL according to there gaming schedule.

This. I'd only add that even when hardcore players aren't playing games they are often thinking about it.

 

The number of casual gamers far outweighs the number of hardcore gamers and as a result games are primarily designed for the casual audience.

[Vecke]

Imagine two sliders.

 

One slider measures how important the game is to you. On one end of that slider is the most hardcore player in the universe. The game is more important to them than the lives of every person they've ever loved.... combined.

 

On the other end of the "important" slider is the most casual player in the universe. That person hits play, then notices that there's a single piece of lint on the edge of their desk, so they log back out, because taking care of that lint is far more important than some silly game.

 

The other slider is time played. On one end of this slider is that same Hardcore player, who has somehow managed to play this game for 26 hours a day. They actually developed a time machine that - once a day - will push them back 2 hours in time. They use this time to get in a couple more hours of gameplay. This person hasn't slept since early December.

 

On the other end of the slider is the most casual player. That person actually has zero hours of logged time, because that person has actually never seen what the game looks like due to the fact that they get always bored and close out the game before the first loading screen is done (yet they still pay their sub).

 

Now... truth is, nobody is on either end of either slider. Most people exist near the middle of both sliders. The problem I see on these forums is that many people think that someone just a little further on that slider (either way) means that person is the guy on the end.

 

Most people are neither hardcore nor casual as defined by the opposing group. Most people are a mix of both, depending on time available and desire to play on that particular day. But no matter where you are on that slider, there will be people on either side of you, thinking you're destroying their game.

[SnoggyMack]

In a thread filled with hatred, invective, and argument, my silly post about smell, something one can not even determine in a video game, gets action taken against it?

 

Stay classy folks! It's class like that which warms my heart!

[Calsetes]

In a thread filled with hatred, invective, and argument, my silly post about smell, something one can not even determine in a video game, gets action taken against it?

 

Stay classy folks! It's class like that which warms my heart!

 

I take offense to that! I have no sense of smell!

 

..... Seriously though, I can't smell a thing. I can taste though, which is odd. I blame the Russians and their Cold War plans.

[ArtMonster]

lol....

 

this thread went nutz from the start this morning.

 

 

I'm not gonna attempt to define casual.

 

 

I think I'll define booger instead...... .

 

boog·er   /ˈbʊgər/ Show Spelled[boog-er] noun

1. Informal . any person or thing: That shark was a mean-looking booger. Paddle the little booger and send him home.

2. Slang . a piece of dried mucus in or from the nose.

3. bogeyman.

4. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. any ghost, hobgoblin, or other frightening apparition.

[Vecke]

lol....

 

this thread went nutz from the start this morning.

 

 

I'm not gonna attempt to define casual.

 

 

I think I'll define booger instead...... .

 

boog·er   /ˈbʊgər/ Show Spelled[boog-er] noun

1. Informal . any person or thing: That shark was a mean-looking booger. Paddle the little booger and send him home.

2. Slang . a piece of dried mucus in or from the nose.

3. bogeyman.

4. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. any ghost, hobgoblin, or other frightening apparition.

 

You Jawas crack me up.