5 months to get full Battlemaster gear. Working as intended..

[Ortof]

I'm glad that your sardonic approach to how a PvP system could work can make light of the fact that people put effort into possibly recieving nothing, but the losses you create by making this kind of system outweight the gains of a legitimate PvP reward system.

 

You are catering to the weak by creating an RNG system, and discouraging the hardcore PvPers who are NOTORIOUS for keeping games alive throughought diversity, which SWTOR has been undertaking.

 

It's not the best system, by far. It's a system that allows for people who haven't earned what they deserve to have better gear than those who HAVE earned it. That, my friend, is unfair in all regards, RNG or not.

 

You want to make an MMO with pvp that will last? Get rid of any situation where RNG has any influence. From then on out, you'll be starting from the right point.

 

I am in the same boat. What ever made you think otherwise? RNG does have it's place in PVP in an MMORPG however. Otherwise you would see this, Tracer hit's for 1500, crits for 2k always etc etc on down the ability line. There would be no "chance to proc" anything. It would be hit it 3 times and this because active.

 

In essence there would be little to no flavor for combat or even the combat system. I get what you are trying to convey in regards to the PVP reward system though. However, how is it that someone who can open 50 bags and get nothing, but someone who opened 49 and got 1, how is it that, the guy who opened 49 isn't deserving?

 

Is there a limit now (post 60 valor) that hinders ANYONE from attaining said gear? Get off the "I earned it, you didn't" horse. That is more useful in the "kill trading" discussions going on. If you had said that, I believe you would have merit. To say that someone who has a piece of gear or 2 out of 10 bags being less deserving than the next guy "just because", is a horrible argument.

 

Ya the system needs to be better, but man, you certainly need to reassess who is "deserving" of said gear and who is not. If you want to put a cap on gear, fine. Do it for most participation in WZ's objectives type points, something that encourages team play objective play, not "I rode this OP class to X e-sport arena rating RAWR".

 

You have to think deeper than you are man. Look at the whole picture.

 

EDIT: Oh and the "hardcore" PVPers you speak of, well they tend to bail if the other team has more people rocking "Battlemaster" than our team. Funny thing though, we have a tendency to win some of those.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Ortof

[Snopzet]

Gawd.. I'm so sick of all the people, who say: "if you open 30 bags, you have no guarantee to get a commendation". Of course, if you open 100 bags there is a chance that you get nothing. But the chance for this is very very low. On the other hand, if there are 1.000.000 people who are playing the game, there will be some players, who got the loser account. That is why RNG is absolutely crap in my opinion. Everyone should have the same chance to get an item.

 

For those who don't know anything about probability... the chance to get X commendations out of 30 bags is:

 

X
0	0,02%
1	0,18%
2	0,86%
3	2,69%
4	6,04%
5	10,47%
6	14,55%
7	16,62%
8	15,93%
9	12,98%
10	9,09%
11	5,51%
12	2,91%
13	1,34%
14	0,54%
15	0,19%

Edited February 16, 2012 by Snopzet

[Kalantris]

Two BMs in my guild. I got one token out of 10 boxes I opened. The other is missing one token to complete the BM set, keeping track since the system changed and he has a little under 10% drop rate as well. Bioware, go and shovel that system up your backside, really. I'd really love you to implement the system described on this forum some time ago. Give yourself random paychecks. With either cash or food tokens.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Torsoaril]

If the drop rate is so low why don't they implement a buff system. This buff could be if you receive nothing in a bag you then have an increased chance for your next bag. This buff to your character would stack say an extra 10% until you get a bag with a token then resets.

 

Just a thought

 

ps sorry if my grammar sucks

[Magnesium]

This might matter if Battlemaster meant anything.

 

Since it is about a 2% upgrade...

 

who cares

 

Any upgrade is something, it doesn't mean your instantly a better player who is unkillable, but a good player can take advantage with that upgrade and 2 good players going against each oher could be as little as 2% diff.

[Xinika]

This might matter if Battlemaster meant anything.

 

Since it is about a 2% upgrade...

 

who cares

 

2%? More like 0.50% at best or a possible downgrade.

http://i.imgur.com/AT7HJ.jpg

Edited February 16, 2012 by Xinika

[Hypernetic]

I got my saber, chest, and legs and then stopped caring. I don't even do the daily or weekly quests anymore.

 

In fact I'm pretty much bored of this game. I leveled an alt to 50 and started PVPing with him today. There is pretty much no point in playing the alt in PVP at this point in the game, he's too far behind in gear.

 

Also most of the good PVPers on my faction have quit the game.

 

 

P.S. How the **** do people have 11k HP in warzones at 50? I hit 50 TODAY and have 16k HP as a DPS in DPS gear.

[patatt]

I am in the same boat. What ever made you think otherwise? RNG does have it's place in PVP in an MMORPG however. Otherwise you would see this, Tracer hit's for 1500, crits for 2k always etc etc on down the ability line. There would be no "chance to proc" anything. It would be hit it 3 times and this because active.

 

In essence there would be little to no flavor for combat or even the combat system. I get what you are trying to convey in regards to the PVP reward system though. However, how is it that someone who can open 50 bags and get nothing, but someone who opened 49 and got 1, how is it that, the guy who opened 49 isn't deserving?

 

Is there a limit now (post 60 valor) that hinders ANYONE from attaining said gear? Get off the "I earned it, you didn't" horse. That is more useful in the "kill trading" discussions going on. If you had said that, I believe you would have merit. To say that someone who has a piece of gear or 2 out of 10 bags being less deserving than the next guy "just because", is a horrible argument.

 

Ya the system needs to be better, but man, you certainly need to reassess who is "deserving" of said gear and who is not. If you want to put a cap on gear, fine. Do it for most participation in WZ's objectives type points, something that encourages team play objective play, not "I rode this OP class to X e-sport arena rating RAWR".

 

You have to think deeper than you are man. Look at the whole picture.

 

EDIT: Oh and the "hardcore" PVPers you speak of, well they tend to bail if the other team has more people rocking "Battlemaster" than our team. Funny thing though, we have a tendency to win some of those.

 

The hardcore PvPer I speak of is the one like myself, who isn't going to back down from a fight no matter the odds.

 

RNG has it's place in PvP COMBAT, but that is where the line should be drawn. You're wrong in your assumptions that the 49-1 BM bag opener is deserving. If it is in some way possible that a PvPer has worked harder, to the point of opening 50 bags and not recieving anything, while someone has worked less hard to open 49 bags and recieve a token should be considering 'more deserving,' then you my friend are living in a delusional world.

 

I however live in a world where effort is rewarded on the basis of merit. Sure, the guy who opened 49 bags might have earned 49/50th of one piece of gear, but that guy who opened 50 bags should be at 100% for a piece. You can not discount his efforts in any way, or else you are accepting the unbalance and unfairness that is plauging this PvP gear reward system currently. I, on the other hand, do not accept this system.

 

Don't even bring up the idea of kill trading, or valor farming. These issues have no role in the discussion of getting what is deserved in terms of gear. The issue at hand is that people who have worked harder and longer towards the same goal are getting less of a reward than those who have worked less hard.

 

That is an unfair system. That is the system in place in SWTOR. If you agree with this system, then you are an unfair person, and I do not care to support the systems you care to keep in place.

[patatt]

Two BMs in my guild. I got one token out of 10 boxes I opened. The other is missing one token to complete the BM set, keeping track since the system changed and he has a little under 10% drop rate as well. Bioware, go and shovel that system up your backside, really. I'd really love you to implement the system described on this forum some time ago. Give yourself random paychecks. With either cash or food tokens.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

 

I looked up that post and couldn't find it. I think once it hit page 5, a BW mod deleted it, because it was TOO FRIGGEN HILARIOUS.

 

Yet, true.

[Tanyala]

One of my guildies had opened 18 Bags with 0 BM commendation.

 

I'm at 56 and had 9 so far.

 

This stupid RNG system has one reason and one reason only - to slow down the hard core players.

 

Just watch, if a lot of people finally reach 60, they will change it to the point that every bag will drop a commendation, and they just increase the cost of BM gear - just mark my words.

 

Why did they change it for champion bags, but not for BM bags?

 

It's an artificial implemented slow down - for a) making sure that not every Battlemaster is leaving the game since his BM set is completed too quickly and b) that "younger" (casual) player can actually keep up.

 

Well, both are going to backfire soon. What's there for a BM that has every piece of gear and is slaughtering any WZ - he will stop playing.

New players, even with BM gear, realize that gear is not the decisive factor, it's class/skill - they will stop playing too.

 

If Bioware doesn't get their shiat together, it looks grim.

[Xinika]

The hardcore PvPer I speak of is the one like myself, who isn't going to back down from a fight no matter the odds.

 

RNG has it's place in PvP COMBAT, but that is where the line should be drawn. You're wrong in your assumptions that the 49-1 BM bag opener is deserving. If it is in some way possible that a PvPer has worked harder, to the point of opening 50 bags and not recieving anything, while someone has worked less hard to open 49 bags and recieve a token should be considering 'more deserving,' then you my friend are living in a delusional world.

 

I however live in a world where effort is rewarded on the basis of merit. Sure, the guy who opened 49 bags might have earned 49/50th of one piece of gear, but that guy who opened 50 bags should be at 100% for a piece. You can not discount his efforts in any way, or else you are accepting the unbalance and unfairness that is plauging this PvP gear reward system currently. I, on the other hand, do not accept this system.

 

Don't even bring up the idea of kill trading, or valor farming. These issues have no role in the discussion of getting what is deserved in terms of gear. The issue at hand is that people who have worked harder and longer towards the same goal are getting less of a reward than those who have worked less hard.

 

That is an unfair system. That is the system in place in SWTOR. If you agree with this system, then you are an unfair person, and I do not care to support the systems you care to keep in place.

+1 Agreed entirely.

[MuscarKrone]

For the stat freaks:

 

http://stattrek.com/tables/binomial.aspx

 

 

Probability of success on a single trial .25

Number of trials 39

Number of successes 4

Binomial Probability: P(X = 4) 1.3%

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 4) 0.6%

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 4) 1.9%

Cumulative Probability: P(X > 4) 98%

Cumulative Probability: P(X > 4) 99%

 

 

So the math says: I am the most unlucky of 1/100 people go me! (note my 99% chance of pulling more than 4)

 

Like I keep saying, I don't feel like pvping if I go unrewarded for a whole week, granted... I got all the Champ tokens I needed to get the mods I need to put into my other set..... so yay for millions of champ tokens.

Edited February 16, 2012 by MuscarKrone

[Pashgan]

I see whole lot of miracles in this thread:

 

1) PvPers still playing this game;

2) PvPers still paying for this game;

3) PvPers still believe Bioware may improve things prior to D3 / GW2 release.

 

P.S. I'm lucky with about 25% rate but there is no way I can continue subscription for this mediocre MMO after my pre-paid time card expire in March. Developers are too slow and too full of fail.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Pashgan

[patatt]

For the stat freaks:

 

http://stattrek.com/tables/binomial.aspx

 

 

Probability of success on a single trial .25

Number of trials 39

Number of successes 4

Binomial Probability: P(X = 4) 1.3%

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 4) 0.6%

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 4) 1.9%

Cumulative Probability: P(X > 4) 98%

Cumulative Probability: P(X > 4) 99%

 

 

So the math says: I am the most unlucky of 1/100 people go me! (note my 99% chance of pulling more than 4)

 

Like I keep saying, I don't feel like pvping if I go unrewarded for a whole week, granted... I got all the Champ tokens I needed to get the mods I need to put into my other set..... so yay for millions of champ tokens.

 

We are the 99 percent! Occupy SWTOR!

 

Oh man, I just said that...

[MuscarKrone]

I see whole lot of miracles in this thread:

 

1) PvPers still playing this game;

2) PvPers still paying for this game;

3) PvPers still believe Bioware may improve things prior to D3 / GW2 release.

 

P.S. I'm lucky with about 25% rate but there is no way I can continue subscription for this mediocre MMO after my pre-paid time card expire in March. Developers are too slow and too full of fail.

 

This is way off topic, and for those of us whom love this game... your complaints belong in a different thread...

[Marisblood]

I'm at 3 bm tokens out of 36 BM boxes. That's 1 token per week. It takes 20 tokens to get a full set of BM. The drop rate is supposed to be 25%, but for me and a lot of others (who have made dozens of similar threads) I'm around 9%. If the trend stays current then it will take me 5 months straight of daily/weekly pvp quests.

 

Over on the Customer Service forums there was an official response to this concern:

 

 

Unfortunately there was a followup response later in the same thread:

 

 

To recap: 5 months to get full Battlemaster is working as intended. Do not reply to this post with a statistics lecture. Nobody wants to hear it. The point of this thread is to draw attention to how absurd this system is. It needs to change.

 

I got 3 comendation from 37 BM bags, even worse. Im ranked 66, my Nadia have full champ gear, i have 3 times champ gear, Cedrax have full champ gear. Im sick of champ drop, less BM. ON the other hand my imp friend, maraduder, ranked 62 is half BM gear. I think drop for them is favorized, a hiden one, cause cant be detected ever. Bu t u can see it. My question is how a hier ranked player is less geared then lower ranked player? Is this FAIR? I dont think so, i think this is a bulsh...head.

FIX this stupidity , DEVS slackers!

[RoccoStyla]

Guys put an end to your useless comments. The pvp sytem of this game rewards ony lucky and selfish people. It does not care about the person's skill or dedication to a objective and his/her given time to the game. And because of this it is the crappiest system I've ever seen in my life.

 

For example I have 2 friends who are valor 56 right now and I can not join wz with them. Since they already have enough champion items and enough battlemaster bags, their primary concern is to get their valor level up. So they do not care about objectives or ball cariers. They just try to get medals. But as a rank 35 player I need to win.

 

The thing with this game is there are a lot of useless whinings so the true porblems that the game has can not be detected sometimes. And of course there are lucky or "no life" nerds who will always say " I have the items so what is the problem?". I just wanted to say these I do not really care about positive or negative feedback on this but there are lots of people on both sides who need to grow up.

[Dralor]

In other news if you are republic this takes even longer since Ilum is a joke.

 

I had a bit of a head start since I got 60 prior to the change. But yeah, two weeks since I've gotten a BM com. Plus the BM relic that got stripped and turned into a PvE relic. Still really appreciate that little gem of customer service. <3

[_Flin_]

Wah wah RNG wah wah.

 

Change is already announced. Like 3 or 4 weeks ago.

 

Live with it. It'll change. No need for tears.

[icecoldone]

Its working as intended.

 

No need to worry about it mate

[Fight]

Please start looking at it this way:

 

Every bag you open has a 75% chance of failure. The end.

[patatt]

I'm glad some you guys are fine with the RNG system, and you know, that probably makes things more enjoyable for you. I on the other hand do not enjoy undertaking challenges that might ultimately be futile. Call it who I am, but if I'm not getting something out of it, I feel less inclined to do it.

 

Now, the difference between my perspective and your perspective, in terms of how BioWare's financial department sees us, is one of the decision to keep paying them our 15$/month or not. If I come to the conclusion that this game is no longer enjoyable, for whatever reason, then I'll stop paying for it. Same as with you.

 

So, when it comes to PvP and the reward system, you find two types of people, those who are okay with the RNG system, and those who are not. However, you might also find that those who are okay with the RNG system would generally also be in favor of a more rigid effort/reward system, where gear is earned at a steadier rate, whereas those who are not in favor of the RNG system will most likely never be in favor of that type of system at all.

 

So, what happens? Eventually those players who could have been kept around by an effort/reward system leave, while the players who might have enjoyed both systems stay.

 

This means less money for BioWare, less subscribers to SWTOR and less people in the virtual world of this MMO. All of these lead to less of an ability to create new content (by having less resources available), less incentive to create more content and fix the game system, and more incentive for EA to focus it's time and money elsewhere.

 

TL;DR:

If they fixed the system to cater to the enjoyment of more people overall, both the effort/reward players and the RNG grind it out and maybe get a piece of gear players, this game would become stronger as a whole.

 

I'm not trying to complain for the sake of getting myself more gear, though it would be nice to see, but rather that I want my voice to be heard so that this game might succeed, which requires catering to the largest possible group in the best possible way.

 

Or money will start flowing elsewhere.

[DestyOwn]

2 for 44, working as intended. my ***

[Semitote]

3 for 36 can turn to 11 for 44 in half a week. So technically, you're half a week behind and you're complaining.

[Entropicus]

Flip a coin 1000 times and it lands on heads every time you still have a 50% chance to land on heads though it feels like its overdue.

Just an extreme run of bad luck I hointo don't run into at 50.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Entropicus