Elrenia Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 i think people need to stop demanding things be nerfed because of PVP did it ever occur to you PVP QQ'ers that these items are to be used in PVE and help your RAID/OPERATIONS.... keep on nerfing the crap out of crafts and skills and it's going to be impossible to complete operations and flashpoints unless you are wearing best in game gear Stop the demands for nerfing Everything on the planet simply because you don't like how it is in PVP, if it bothers you so much, take the damn craft yourself and shut up whining about it PVP is not the entire life of SW:TOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok_bloodcraft Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 my point was about pvp. pve bonus was in brackets. i repeat to be clear for a 4th grader like you: how does synthweaving help in pvp? The fact that you think biochem reusales are the best for pvp makes you look like the "4th grader" pvp stims and adrenals are better expertise kills all other stats in pvp and with any decent gear 30% heal is a lot more than 3.5k. on top of making yourself a full suit of orange crit gear to throw the whole set of BM mods/armor in and have an aug slot once march gets here. meaning anyone not doing that will be 20-35pt in whatever you drop in there per gear slot behind every everyone who does make armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrenia Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I still don't understand how they nerfed it that much? So they made it where you can now sell the adrenals......so...you buffed Biochem's ability to make money..and they still have reusable stims and adrenals? I don't understand the huge nerf there? biochem has been nerfed 3 times now.. rakata medipacs now heal less than they originally did, in fact they heal worse than the blue tradeable life recovery medis.... the rakata stims now provide a smaller stat boost than they did, Exotech adrenals are better than rakata and exotech can be used by everyone wether you are a biochemist or not.. tradeable items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok_bloodcraft Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 biochem has been nerfed 3 times now.. rakata medipacs now heal less than they originally did, in fact they heal worse than the blue tradeable life recovery medis.... the rakata stims now provide a smaller stat boost than they did, Exotech adrenals are better than rakata and exotech can be used by everyone wether you are a biochemist or not.. tradeable items ^ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokor Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 biochem has been nerfed 3 times now.. rakata medipacs now heal less than they originally did, in fact they heal worse than the blue tradeable life recovery medis.... the rakata stims now provide a smaller stat boost than they did, Exotech adrenals are better than rakata and exotech can be used by everyone wether you are a biochemist or not.. tradeable items afaik there are no pvp "stims" available in this game yet. only heals and adrenals. it takes 200 wz comms for 1 heal. i might use 5 heals in a commendation... should i come out with nothing out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok_bloodcraft Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 afaik there are no pvp "stims" available in this game yet. only heals and adrenals. it takes 200 wz comms for 1 heal. i might use 5 heals in a commendation... should i come out with nothing out of it? No you should L2P and quit trying to whine about something that affects the entire game istead of just your pvp. if you were better at pvp you wouldn't need to min max pot/stims/adrenals just to get a couple kills. A lot of people play pve only or pve and pvp the fact that you only pvp is a choice you made and can't be used against us. if you want a more useful skill get one. But as said before the other skills will be the ones you want nerfed as soon as the guy beating you at pvp already get augment slots added to all his BM gear because he can make crit orange armor pull the mods/armor from his BM set throw them in crit oranges and have an extra 150-250 to any stat he wants to augment with. No amount of biochem is gonna stack up to the mara having an extra 200 strength or the op having an extra 200 cunning or the merc with an extra 200 aim. So I feel sorry for all the pvp'ers aside from just not understanding why you can't just go merc people in cod or b3 or playing on a pvp intensive game like wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunkie Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 The fact that you think biochem reusales are the best for pvp makes you look like the "4th grader" pvp stims and adrenals are better expertise kills all other stats in pvp and with any decent gear 30% heal is a lot more than 3.5k. on top of making yourself a full suit of orange crit gear to throw the whole set of BM mods/armor in and have an aug slot once march gets here. meaning anyone not doing that will be 20-35pt in whatever you drop in there per gear slot behind every everyone who does make armor I love how you guys try to justify that the reusables suck, but absolutely don't want them removed. Remove the reusables if they're so useless. Make it so a biochemist gets a 20% bonus to whatever stims/adrenals/medpacs they use. But you're not fooling anybody. Almost all PvPers are biochemists now, and raiders are now going that route as well. I doubt Bioware wants all PvPers and raiders to be biochemists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok_bloodcraft Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I love how you guys try to justify that the reusables suck, but absolutely don't want them removed. Remove the reusables if they're so useless. Make it so a biochemist gets a 20% bonus to whatever stims/adrenals/medpacs they use. But you're not fooling anybody. Almost all PvPers are biochemists now, and raiders are now going that route as well. I doubt Bioware wants all PvPers and raiders to be biochemists. I didn't say they suck I said there are better options just like in pve. and way to ignore the second part. you have bigger concerns coming soon. If they remove reusables everyone will have to be a biochem anyway because we are unionizing and won't sell to anyone that doesn't have biochem. Edited February 17, 2012 by havok_bloodcraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxell_Snow Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Make it so a biochemist gets a 20% bonus to whatever stims/adrenals/medpacs they use. I doubt Bioware wants all PvPers and raiders to be biochemists. and you think that gem of a suggestion will do it? Come on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Synthweaving gives access to crit crafted Rakata belt and bracers (w/ aug slots) BEST IN SLOT... unobtainable through any means except Synthweaving... Looks like back to the drawing board for you (or torhead maybe) Except it isn't BiS. Orange items with (58) mods are. And even if it was then synthweaving would also be broken, and the correct fix would be to remove the BoP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Yea...moddable belt and bracers with 58s are the same as Rakata critted stuff. The difference is so small its not even worth the hassle. BH bracer comparison...the modded stuff has like 9 more aim and 9 more endurance, the Rakata has 27 more power. No need to go and craft critted bracers. They are basically the same as modded stuff. --- And about a full orange suit with augments. They didn't have any type of upcoming ETA for that so dont expect it next month. Being able to pull armoring mods out of blues and purples will be here soon but that doesn't change anything but our looks. But if one day they bring the crits on armor pieces, the moddable bracers will be superior to Rakata crit crafted ones. Edited February 17, 2012 by DarthBloodloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatteredstar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I didn't say they suck I said there are better options just like in pve. and way to ignore the second part. you have bigger concerns coming soon. If they remove reusables everyone will have to be a biochem anyway because we are unionizing and won't sell to anyone that doesn't have biochem. Don't need to unionize for that, I'd be burning all my mats just to keep myself using my own stims. Since as we know the persist through death stims aint cheap and having to have a constant supply for adrenals and such too. I'd be burning all my materials for myself, no selling to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 But if one day they bring the crits on armor pieces, the moddable bracers will be superior to Rakata crit crafted ones. There would also be no reason to buy any items better than the skill 30 required orange ones... so if/when crits on orange pieces comes about, it'll pretty much be the deathknell of the various armor crafts, unless they do something sneaky and don't simply add critting to orange gear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't care if they nerf biochem or buff the other crew skills but something does need to be done, when everyone you run into has biochem and 400 cybertech's and artificers are dropping those professions to pick up biochem something is clearly wrong, IMO the reusuables should not be bop and they should not require biochem to use. that would greatly even the playing field, as a synthweaver I have two slots that I can fill with superior gear the same is said for biochems, but atm they also get the benefit of reusables. And soon armormech and synthwearvers will make the best gear in game. They will be able to crit modable gear. Which means an augment slot on every piece of gear. Put end game mods in there and boom. What does biochem have again? Oh resuable medpack/stim and adrenal... where the stats were nerfed 3 times and are now less then the non resuasables.... matters not because credits are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 afaik there are no pvp "stims" available in this game yet. only heals and adrenals. it takes 200 wz comms for 1 heal. i might use 5 heals in a commendation... should i come out with nothing out of it? Its 10 wz coms not 200. If you use 5 thats not even 1 match worth of comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yea...moddable belt and bracers with 58s are the same as Rakata critted stuff. The difference is so small its not even worth the hassle. BH bracer comparison...the modded stuff has like 9 more aim and 9 more endurance, the Rakata has 27 more power. No need to go and craft critted bracers. They are basically the same as modded stuff. --- And about a full orange suit with augments. They didn't have any type of upcoming ETA for that so dont expect it next month. Being able to pull armoring mods out of blues and purples will be here soon but that doesn't change anything but our looks. But if one day they bring the crits on armor pieces, the moddable bracers will be superior to Rakata crit crafted ones. It is going to happen in 1.2 learn to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmyra Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Like the title says, i think it's time to end this. It clearly is overpowering because having a free heal, free adrenals and free stims is just too powerful. Even Biochemists should want this change, because with so many biochemists, the market for stims and medpacs is just not there. The perks for a biochemist should be stronger stim/adrenals/medpacs for their own use only. Change the reusables to the Exotech (requiring 400 biochem to use), and drop their mats to only requiring one Radioactive Paste (4 is absurd). Adrenals are too expensive currently. A good start would be to cut their mats by half. For ops schematics, make the Exotech have a 4 hour duration that anybody can use (and requiring 4 Radioactive Paste). The other crafting skills aren't broken. Some require tweeks, but they ARE viable. It's just when people compare them to Biochem, they see it as useless. When people look up stims and see that 2 stims is the same price as a reusable, it's a no-brainer that stims are a ripoff or/and that biochem reusables is too fantastic to not have. So there's too many Biochemists and your plan to thin out the numbers is to make the medpaks, stims and adrenals stronger than what the non-Biochemists can use? Did this make sense in your head as you were typing it? Does it still make sense to you after I pointed out the glaring flaw in your idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renamesk Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 They've been nerfing biochem already. So you want to nerf it so much that it's no longer useful?? My alt that has biochem isn't that high, but I don't see the problem. That's the benefit of going biochem, you get the reusable medpacks/stims/adrenals. It doesn't seem that medpacks/adrenals/stims are in that much demand, but implants are useful for selling on the GTN. If biochem didn't have reusables, what would be the point? You could just go with vendor consumables. Just saying.. Ehehehehem. The POINT of not having reusables is to have the best medpacks in the game that also increase your health by 15% that can't be made or gotten anywhere else. At that point, the crew skill will be equivalent with other crew skills. Armstech can make augument slotted weapons that are sought after, but doesnt have a reusable, biochem can make medpacs that are BiG and boost health by 15% and thus are sought after. Tomato to-freakin-mato (btw, if they took away reusables they'd probably add another tier of good medpacs to replace it, just sayin) Also, don't nerf the implants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayticus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 If you remove resuables from biochem, then you should remove them from all the crafting professions, to be fair, right? No crafted weapons or armor can be repaired, and all mods and such that are crafted decay and can not be repaired. Sound good? Make sense? Especially since many instances the character does not need the skill to use said item. To paraphrase the OP, Everyone should want this change, because with so much crafted gear that can be reused, the market for such gear is just not there. Make sense right? Oh wait that will kill crafted items. Or...just maybe.. The real problem is vendor items are cheaper and almost as effective when it comes to medpacks, and such, as the crafted non-reusable ones, standard vendor armor and weapons, and such, are no where close to purple or blue crafted items of similar level, so either increase crafted non-reuse biochem items effectiveness (then removing reusable is ok) or greatly reduce vendor item effectiveness, and greatly increase cost (course that is server dependent on current market value for items on the market so hard to do a price increase only), to make crafted items more appealing, which will raise all sorts of complaints, but all changes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexster Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 When orange gear changes go live, from a personal benefits standpoint biochem will still reign supreme. With increased outfits coming out, odds are you will find bracer/belt in there somewhere as an orange recipe. And even if you dont, once ya get a set of orange for everything, the perk of biochem is still greater. I understand that rakata medpak isnt the best in terms of amount healed, but the ability to play for 12 hours straight and click those and the adrenals every 90seconds or 3 minutes, or whatever for purely craps and giggles is far stronger than 2 extra augments. Guess it wont matter though, once the changes go live, Ill just make an orange item for every slot, then swap back to biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 They should remove professions IMO. So far most are worthless, one started out being massively overpowered but has been nerfed. It's still useful but that's too much for some people, so IMO don't bother nerfing it. Just remove them all. Game will be better off. After all, no one actually likes crafting as it exists in this game, or leveling crafting in this game. I know I didn't. I had cybertech, dropped it for biochem, and to be blunt if biochem gets nerfed into oblivion I don't want to have to level another profession so just remove them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqyre Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 And you are thinking that me or other biochemist will sell you reusable and kill market for blues? Ha, ha, ha Maybe for 500K-1M I wouldn't need to buy from you I have a guild that would be more than happy to furnish them to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqyre Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by Sqyre I don't care if they nerf biochem or buff the other crew skills but something does need to be done, when everyone you run into has biochem and 400 cybertech's and artificers are dropping those professions to pick up biochem something is clearly wrong, IMO the reusuables should not be bop and they should not require biochem to use. that would greatly even the playing field, as a synthweaver I have two slots that I can fill with superior gear the same is said for biochems, but atm they also get the benefit of reusables. Pretty much QFT end game is still BIOCHEM onry the others are nonsense atm. Pretty much anyone that has a problem with my suggestions, can not constructively explain why it is not a good idea and would go to great lengths to balance out this issue. However it appears that a majority of the biochems would just rather see there profesion nerfed even farther witch is exactly what is going to happen if the trends remain constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spero-Mcgee Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 So alot or even most people take biochem on every single char on every single adv. class that is possible up to 8 chars max? If that's the case, good to know, I'll have less rivals in the other crafts. All this whine about biochem reusables is just stupid, sure I understand with the adrenals but really now, with the tons of creds that are easy to get making blue adrenals/stims for your none biochem chars is piss easy. And when you crit during your biochem making adventures you get more than 1. I have no idea though if extras are just limited to one extra or even more. Maybe you could take twice biochem, say on the jedi knight the companion doc has crit to biochem. 1 time on the guardian and the other on a sentinel. (although kira carsen is the crit synthweaver so keep that in mind) I took biochem on my consular, because the last companion has crit +2 to diplomacy and the first one has bio efficiency. I took biochem once again and dropped artifice when I found out doc had the crit to biochem. But taking biochem more than twice that be overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKer-Nal Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I don't know about the viability of Biochem, but consumable items should be an end game money sink. There should be no reusable pots/stims/adrenals. To be blunt, Bioware has never designed a multiplayer game before and their lack of experience is showing. They have no idea what crafters want out of crafting, they have no clue how to make a viable AH, and they are too proud/stubborn to listen to players who've actually played with such systems over a period of years. While some of the devs are supposed to have played other MMOs for an extended period of time, you sure can't tell it from the state (present and future) of the economy. To be fair, having the crew craft was a very nice (even innovative) touch. The pre-launch boards suggested having slots in gear to give the gear its stats, but Bioware seems to have miffed the implementation on that one. Edited February 18, 2012 by ColonelKer-Nal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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