ZDProletariat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 sin/shadow are no where near OP. yeah they just have most of the utility of a sorc, and all the damage of a gunslinger with the tanking ability of a powertech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechout Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I've been playing darkness and I have to say that it is a very strong build for pvp. I seem to do a pretty decent amount of damage both AOE and single target burst. Of course AOE is not as meaningful as single burst in helping take out targets and I have on occasion been very frustrated when there are some good healers around. That said, with harnessed darkness and finger lightning I am more than capable of taking down targets. I'm not sure about how Darkness stacks up DPS wise to deception, but I think that staying alive is a crucial part of having a high damage count at the end of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) yeah they just have most of the utility of a sorc, and all the damage of a gunslinger with the tanking ability of a powertech. Are you fight triple specced shadows that have three times teh talent points anyone else does? Because I wish I had all those abilities at once (hint: i do not). Lets take a look at what you are talking about. Utility like a sorc? How? I cant root more than one person for more than a few seconds. I have a knockback that is good in huttball and only huttball. I have force speed because I am melee and its basically my only gap closer. All the damage of a gunslinger? We do damage but it depends on spec. I'm Infiltration which means I am in melee made of paper. I will do burst damage fine. Kinetic spec will do constant damage and survive a bit longer but you will have much more time to react. Tanking of a powertech? not as infiltration. I have two cooldowns to stop damage when they are used I am dead if I am being attacked. I have a taunt button that gets me medals yay. as kinetic again they may be on par with a powertech but they are specced as a tank. again: YOU CANNOT DO IT ALL AT ONCE It sounds like you do not know how to play against a double glow stick. And if you bring up combat from stealth I can guarantee you our opener from stealth in any spec is not devastating or even close to an operative/scoundrel. Edited February 15, 2012 by gryhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 they bring out more dps than their deception tree and make operatives so called "burst" look like ****. This is a joke right? Op burst is still by far superior to Deception or Darkness spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyannez Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I do fine on my deception sin. I don't understand why everyone seems to cry so much about this. Sure, you're squishy, but unless you're picking off the one guy standing in the pit because he doesn't care about objectives (which makes you just as dumb) you're probably being targetted by more than one person. 1v1 I win most times, say on defense at a turret. 1v2, I last long enough for people to get over there and stop the cap. Carrying the ball? Kay, dark charge. See a healer nearby who isn't just jerking it? Dark charge + guard. Other guys have the ball, or you're going to go take a turret? Surging. Seriously, topping charts is so unimportant unless you're a medal hoar, and in that case I wouldn't even want you on my team because there are enough of those and I'm tired of watching everyone fight in the pits while someone runs the ball right above them. So if you want to guard a healer you just walk around aimlesly for 12-20 seconds while you wait for 100 energy, then wait for some more energy to regen? While also cuting you dmg in less than half? (no surging stacks, no induction, less energy regen etc). The question is simple: what does a deception sin bring to the team as oposite to a darkness/hybrind one? More burst More single target dmg. what does a drakness/hybrid spec bring? An aoe snare + 5% dmg reduction debuff / a ranged aoe More control (spike out of stealth + grip) Guard A very good group buff (9% dmg on stunned targets) Better mobility A lot better surv (why does this mater? well because your healers can focus on smth else) A 5% hit debuff Competitve total dmg (even tho a part of it is aoe padding it still needs to be healed and it kills people) A better ball carrier (lower cd on sprint / snare+roots removal / lower cd on force shroud+longer duration) A better defender (see above why) And imo a lot more "presence". He is always there, always guarding that damn healer, always taunting, always griping you ball carrier into flames while being resilient as hell (this is totaly subjective tho) In the end is a mater of preference and playstyle. I often spec deception for some fun, but when i que with my friends i can't but wonder: why would i go as deception? OT: i play 28/0/13 taking death field+trash crit dmg in madness and HD+nerve wracking in darkness. I play in full dps gear with a shield generator. Edited February 15, 2012 by Cyannez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 YOU CANNOT DO IT ALL AT ONCE It's not our fault you chose a spec that does the least instead of choosing the best which most other assassins do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenatorPalpaTANG Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 they bring out more dps than their deception tree and make operatives so called "burst" look like ****. There is so much wrong with that sentence. Jesus. Do you even play this game? Darkness specs don't burst nearly as hard as Deception Sins or Ops. Energize Proc + Recklessness (1.5min CD) is the only reliable burst they have, and it's still 15% weaker than a Dec Sin's shock after 2x Voltaics... AE damage from spamming Wither may look good on the leaderboard, but it doesn't mean a Darkness Sin can apply anywhere near the kind of offensive pressure of a real DPS spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It's not our fault you chose a spec that does the least instead of choosing the best which most other assassins do. I think you do not know how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think you do not know how to play. Maybe you need to explore your other specs before talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) yeah they just have most of the utility of a sorc, and all the damage of a gunslinger with the tanking ability of a powertech. You can either have tank, utility, have decent sustained damage, and guard. (Pure-tank spec) OR Have lots of CC, some burst damage, and some sustained damage. (DPS spec) OR A bunch of CC, weak tank, utility, weak damage. (Tank/CC spec) Assassin/Shadow is one of the weakest classes overall, and definitely isn't as good of a tank as a Powertech. It's the jack-of-all-trades class. The tank-spec happens to do decent damage compared to the DPS spec because the DPS-spec has poor survivability against most classes. I've only seen a handful of Assassin/Shadows get above 300k damage, and most of them are from screenshots on this forum. I've seen dozens and dozens of Mercenaries and Sorcerers break 600k damage. Edited February 15, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrasment Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Im a Shadow in Infil spec. The "tank" tree does more damage on the board cause of the "Slow Time" skill that is AoE; for example in voidstar when all are fighting near the doors. As an Infil spec i can assure you that no other spec can do the same burst as mine, i can drop down 60/70% of the hp of my enemy in like 5 sec. You dont need the "high damage" on the board, it means nothing.....you need to take down your enemyes. Oh well, you can say...but in huttball you dont give a support to your team.Wrong, i can make the ball carrier switching in tank stance and thorw a guard to the healer near me that will follow me while i go to the score line, i can pop resilence and pass a fire pit, sprint to the goal. And on the counterpart im rly usefull in bursting down the enemy ball carrier. Infil spec is not only "stealth burst restealth" it have lot of utilities that you need to discover, im Valor 58 and im sure i havent discovered yet the full power of my class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyannez Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You can either have tank, utility, have decent sustained damage, and guard. (Pure-tank spec) OR Have lots of CC, some burst damage, and some sustained damage. (DPS spec) OR A bunch of CC, weak tank, utility, weak damage. (Tank/CC spec) How exactly does the dps spec have more cc than the tank spec? o.O I also find it strange you never see sins goin over 300k dmg. It's rather easy in a full time wz as either of the 4 specs that are curently most played. (full dark / deception / darkness-madness hybrind / full madness) Especially as madness. I might not enjoy the playstyle of that spec but geting 400k+, even goin towards 600k in a full duration voidstart door fight is more than possible. It seems strange that people actualy consider sins a weak class. Yes we took a hit with the raze+surge nerf. Yes the playstyle lost a lot of it's "deepness" with the increse cost on charges, but make no mistake sins are curently one of the strongest classes around. To the poster above: yes you can switch to dark charge but that way you gimp yourself. As darkness spec you do that naturaly. And if you use dark charge why not go darkness in the first place? As deception the utility is minimal at best and only reduced to taunts. Everything you mentioned a darkness spec does better. Higher armor, better sprint, better shroud. Edited February 15, 2012 by Cyannez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just wanted to confirm with the general populace, this is true? Purely speaking from a "larger damage number" at the end of the warzone on the scoreboard? Confirm or deny? Confirm, at least for me. But only because as tank spec I spend most of the match alive, and doing damage. As Deception, I spend most of the match dead between bursts of considerably higher damage. And it's not a L2P issue. It depends more on people I'm fighting. If I'm fighting absolute morons, keyboard turners, etc., and I outgear them to boot, Deception is fine. If I play competent players, Darkness pulls out ahead considerably because anyone with more than half a brain can easily counter Deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenatorPalpaTANG Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) How exactly does the dps spec have more cc than the tank spec? o.O Low slash > spike, even with the 2 piece tank set bonus. 5 second shorter CD, actually hits pretty hard and gives less resolve. And Dec sins can still spike from stealth of course. I guess if you count the pull as CC it gets a little grey, but eh. Edited February 15, 2012 by SenatorPalpaTANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrasment Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 anyone with more than half a brain can easily counter Deception. You prolly know bad sins so. You need more than an half brain to counter a well played Deception sin/Infil Shadow. Dont judge us easy targets only bcz we dont have defensive skills or bcz our Armor rating is next to inexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olagaton Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And I don't understand how Deception spec, or any Assassin for that matter, has trouble staying alive with Force Shroud + Force Cloak? Something called cooldowns? perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It's not our fault you chose a spec that does the least instead of choosing the best which most other assassins do. Its not our fault you're clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karandor Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Full deception is weak in PvP mostly because they're very reliant on stealth for force regen and in prolonged fights they have big force problems. I've played every spec known to man for assassin with my full champ set with crit/surge mods and darkness is the most effective in the most situations. The burst is actually surprisingly high as you can get force lightning to chain crit with recklessness +power relic for 1500-2k+ (that also heals you for 12% HP) and then follow it up with a shock (get an energize proc BEFORE you use lightning) for 2500-3k+ which can then proc a chain shock for 500-1500. Going with the fact that you have pretty good pressure to begin with this will easily kill most people. On top of guard + tons of utility it's a great spec. You really have to get survivor's set with crit/surge mods/enhancements from other PvP gear to make it really shine. Though with the surge nerf I'm changing some stuff to power/alacrity because alacrity is very good with our force lightning and power is always good and accuracy does basically nothing for this build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Its not our fault you're clueless. Do you also need to try more viable specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Do you also need to try more viable specs? I've played Kinetic and Balance, and hybrids of the two, pretty extensively. I can say, without any doubt, that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Edited February 15, 2012 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts