Krylaancelo Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Just wanted to confirm with the general populace, this is true? Purely speaking from a "larger damage number" at the end of the warzone on the scoreboard? Confirm or deny?
Sandzibar Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 very possibly... hard to do damage if dead.. and darkness has a bit more survivability?
Ekajjj Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Hard to say, clearly depends on the warzone. I am deception spec and have no problem dropping 200k damage while still playing objectively oriented. I am by no means an expert, but I think it is fair to say with a Deception Assassin played by a good player, their damage output should theoretically beat the Darkness spec. Besides the pure number stance (because of the sheer impact of Wither on these numbers), I think from a damage standpoint, the Deception spec is a better suit for this department. Clearly though, Deception spec would be nowhere near as great of a Hutball carrier. It is really how you want to look at it, I suppose. If you have a Darkness Assassin spamming AoEs, they can beat Deception with ease. But how much of an impact are these massive numbers having on the other team, especially if they aren't finishing them off? Edited February 15, 2012 by Ekajjj
Ekajjj Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) very possibly... hard to do damage if dead.. and darkness has a bit more survivability? And I don't understand how Deception spec, or any Assassin for that matter, has trouble staying alive with Force Shroud + Force Cloak? Edited February 15, 2012 by Ekajjj
undiess Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Just wanted to confirm with the general populace, this is true? Purely speaking from a "larger damage number" at the end of the warzone on the scoreboard? Confirm or deny? You're not looking at the whole picture. You're just looking at one column at the end of a warzone. So you will not determine a spec's usefulness compared to another spec.
ombraa Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Too many variables on; more generally, between 2 equally geared/skilled sins the answer is no
CapuchinSeven Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 It's likely, it can often be the case that a tank surviving longer will do more DPS, but that doesn't mean they are doing more damage, just that they had the most up time so when it was all added up they did more damage over time. That aside, welcome to the club. The Guardian Vigilance DPS tree provides more survivability than the Defence tree, which is ultimately just a utility tree.
Scalare Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 And I don't understand how Deception spec, or any Assassin for that matter, has trouble staying alive with Force Shroud + Force Cloak? Perhaps overlooking the fact they wear light armor with an arguably small hp pool and little defenses and no burst from stealth? They aren't that different from operatives except for the fact that an operative has you at 40% health before you stand a chance of retaliating.
AetherMcLoud Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 More damage done? Maybe. Darkness has a VERY good AOE with only 7 seconds cooldown. Killing blows though? Deception will be way ahead. And killing blows is what matters not damage done. You can do 300k damage against a team with 5 healers and still not kill anyone.
da_krall Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 It's likely, it can often be the case that a tank surviving longer will do more DPS, but that doesn't mean they are doing more damage, just that they had the most up time so when it was all added up they did more damage over time. That aside, welcome to the club. The Guardian Vigilance DPS tree provides more survivability than the Defence tree, which is ultimately just a utility tree. Just a utility tree?? utility is OP!!!
da_krall Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Perhaps overlooking the fact they wear light armor with an arguably small hp pool and little defenses and no burst from stealth? They aren't that different from operatives except for the fact that an operative has you at 40% health before you stand a chance of retaliating. They have so much more survivbility than an operative that its not even funny.
Cyannez Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 And I don't understand how Deception spec, or any Assassin for that matter, has trouble staying alive with Force Shroud + Force Cloak? As deception you have 2k armor. You get 2 shoted by almost anything that goes around the map. You might not have problems killing a guy you just jumped 1v1 while using your cds. i know i don't. And what are you goin to do after that? sneak around the map until you cds are back up? How useful is that? What are you goin to do when you get snared, knocked off a ramp or just focused fired as soon as you get into combat? This entire "pick you fights" thing works in random ganks and ilum but not in a wz you are actually trying to win. The enemy ball carrier won't wait for your cds to be up so you can come kill him. He or the healer won't die in a burst rotation since they most likely have guard. And then you are stuck in a fight taking more of a fighter role than an "assassin' role. My record dmg as deception (full champ with Bm wep and helm, the damn tokens just refuse to drop QQ) is 450k. But that was under pefect conditions (voidstart so no knockback of ramps, premade with healer and a tank guarding me). My record dmg as deception (28/0/13 actuaclly) is 398k. In a huttball (!!!). While PROVIDING guard, taunts, not using so much of my healers time, having an insane group buff (9% dmg on stuned targets), a grip, lower cd on sprint and snare removal, lower cd on the tech immunity, a debuff (5% miss) and a ranged aoe to interupt caps. Yes some of that dmg was padded aoe dmg and prolly not as useful. But you can't even compare the HUGE utility that darkness brings to the table. Especially after the huge surge nerf. Due to that utility, the insane survivability in full dps gear with a shield generator and the dmg we are able to put out even as a "tank spec" i consider darkness assassins one of the best classes for wzs atm. Deception is just a fun spec i play when i get bored and want to see big numbers.
wtfnonamefree Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 You're not looking at the whole picture. You're just looking at one column at the end of a warzone. So you will not determine a spec's usefulness compared to another spec. Well, it's not as if the deceivers would be able to surpass the tankasins in the protection and healing department either, so the OP's point is quite legit imo. In addition they probably die more frequently and objective points and killing blows are totally meaningless, the way those scores are tabbed. So what's your point again? What's the whole picture? Enlighten us please.
Varcan Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I've played both extensively. Deception was 375-450k, and Darkness was 380k-475k in full length Voidstars where you remain in the action for the most part. So Darkness has slightly higher dmg overall, and generally I had more KBs as Darkness. Its the same killshot either way, and the classes are about equal at taking people down from 50% health. THe only time Deceptions burst comes into play is against targets 60% health or higher. The higher KBs I'll attribute to the higher up time, and lack of deaths as Darkness. The difference in dmg is actually much higher in Darkness favor on Alderaan. But in general, yes a good Darkness will out dmg a Deception on the charts almost every game.
Drokisannath Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 In a pure DPS matter, deception is a little ahead, but the squishyness of this spec makes you "pick" your fights in order to survive. As a Darkness you have a lot more uptime because of your survivability, and you bring way more to the group. Guards, -5% damage to ennemies, -5% accuracy to ennemies, Force pull, -30% movespeed AoE, ability to carry ball efficiently)
cycao Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Its possible if the darkness spec is using dps gear. I know i was topping 300k before they destroyed the hybrid spec. Now i just went full tank, but i can still get around 200k but i only die 2-3 times a zone so its totally possible imo.
Fievre Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I do fine on my deception sin. I don't understand why everyone seems to cry so much about this. Sure, you're squishy, but unless you're picking off the one guy standing in the pit because he doesn't care about objectives (which makes you just as dumb) you're probably being targetted by more than one person. 1v1 I win most times, say on defense at a turret. 1v2, I last long enough for people to get over there and stop the cap. Carrying the ball? Kay, dark charge. See a healer nearby who isn't just jerking it? Dark charge + guard. Other guys have the ball, or you're going to go take a turret? Surging. Seriously, topping charts is so unimportant unless you're a medal hoar, and in that case I wouldn't even want you on my team because there are enough of those and I'm tired of watching everyone fight in the pits while someone runs the ball right above them. Darkness may do more, but they also are using aoes and won't kill anything as fast as a (semi-competent) deception sin. I guess it's nice to have one on the team for huttball, but otherwise I'll take a dps or healer. Or at least someone who isn't worried about damage versus objectives. Edit: This last bit like... disappeared. Dunno how I pulled that off, anyways - All your taunts and what not still work the same in deception, too, so if you want your prot medals, there you go. People need to stop trying to play god. You can't top damage, obj points, prot, healing, kills, and win all at the same time. Edited February 15, 2012 by Fievre
rzrknight Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I can say with 100% acc , that dps sin gives more dmg if well used , maybe you are comparing a tank sin well geared x a poorly geared sin dps.
alement Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Are we talking pure Darkness or Darkness/Madness hybrid? Also what charge are we talking? Dark or Lightning?
kazaku Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) shadow/sin tanks are better tanks than guardians. By far. More survivablity/better dps/more utility they bring out more dps than their deception tree and make operatives so called "burst" look like ****. They have almost all the CC's of the sorc. force speed, knockback, stuns. U name it. its basically the sorc if he suddenly got buff and grew an extra lightsaber edge. One of the best melee classes in the game now. and ironically stemmed from the same broken base class, THE INQUISITOR. I think we found our new FOTM boys. Edited February 15, 2012 by kazaku
ZDProletariat Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I think we found our new FOTM boys. Nothing new about it. There has always been a huge assassin population on pvp servers because people realize how op they are.
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I am infiltration spec and do a good amount of damage. Having said that I see Kinetic spec shadows do almost as much as I do often.
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Nothing new about it. There has always been a huge assassin population on pvp servers because people realize how op they are. sin/shadow are no where near OP.
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 They have so much more survivbility than an operative that its not even funny. Are you on crack cocaine? Operatives have healing spells while shadows do not they also wear medium armor and acid blade still does more damage than we can on burst.
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