maesesami Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning... Bubble, run and force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waagabond Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorc/Sages don't need much else when they have the most CC in the game, Force Run, and can heal, ontop of Bubble. Bubble isn't invincibility-mode, it's just that Light Armor + Bubble is superior to Medium Armor or Heavy Armor, especially since armor doesn't mitigate internal/elemental damage, but a Bubble still blocks it. This. The bubble is the problem. The amount of tools the class already have means they should not have access to this bubble as a base line ability. My recomendation still stands. Place bubble as a tier 5-6 talent in the healing tree and honestly, a healing sorc would more or less stay the same, while DPS sorcs would need to survive without it but can still recieve the bubble, as all other classes, from a healing specd sorc. Increasing the top tier talents in the trees would not mean much. No class have a good top tier talent. Every sorc would still remain hybrid as that would still be better then any top tier talent regardless of how good they are. The bubble needs to be removed from baseline and thats it. Or they need to nerf a whole lot with many other abilities where a slight change would quickly place the class, still ontop but atleast not utterly overpowered. Bubble, speed, aoe knockback, cc, stuns dps snare... Its just too much. This class can by themself do what other classes are doing when working 2 together to ensure this is taking place. It removes team effort since you have one class able to do it all, and better then other classes with 1 or 2 of similar abilities. That sorcs and sages keep protecting their class just shows disrespect to the game and pvp community as a whole. For PVE bubbles are good and handy, and with my advice a heal specd sorc would literally remain unchanged to now, in order to not make pve harder for pve sages, where they already are the strongest healers but I have no problem with that. PVP is the problem, not PVE. The bubble will fully ignore 80% of an operative or scoundrels stealth opener, which is their hardest hitting ability in this game. And since release those classes have their crit damage reduced with up to 40% due to surge nerf and the 20% nerf to said ability. All dps classes need to rely on healers to stay alive, or slip away and self heal. Why not sorcs? They do have the ability to run away and self heal as every other hybrid class, such as mercs, commandos, scoundrels and operatives. Sorcs "bubble" is their cc disposal. Even without the bubble sorcs are still extremly powerful, it really fills no role. That or remove the snare from force lightning and the 2 sec stun from lightning cage. Its one or the other. You already have a snare from your aoe knockback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefirus Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The more op in this moment is the comando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolawler Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning... Bubble, run and force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning... Lol, no wonder they all think they're such great players. Any numbnuts can play a sorc. Edited February 17, 2012 by damolawler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maesesami Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Serendipity, just pros play sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeochins Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Lol, no wonder they all think they're such great players. Any numbnuts can play a sorc. If they're loosing to that it is a learn to play issue, and should not be commenting on balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning... Bubble, run and force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning... Yah, imagine all these whining terribads losing to this. Now you can get the picture how bad QQers are Edited February 17, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning... Bubble, run and force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning... You are either trolling, don't have a clue, or haven't played in the 50 bracket. Any Sorcerer doing this is a good 50s match wouldn't make it to the second line against my Gunslinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waagabond Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You are either trolling, don't have a clue, or haven't played in the 50 bracket. Any Sorcerer doing this is a good 50s match wouldn't make it to the second line against my Gunslinger You are right. There should be a "Bubble" in that rotation and then its good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning,Force lightning... Bubble, run and force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning,force lightning... You should of used and interupts or stun and a root in their somewhere, sorry for your fail but if your not going to use your tools then your a one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooger Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) People are describing the balance as "Bioware bad", amazing lack of quality control and thought has gone into this mess Edited February 17, 2012 by Dooger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruxe Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) People are describing the balance as "Bioware bad", amazing lack of quality control and thought has gone into this mess There were worse balance issues in WoW, and Rift, AoC, DaoC, EQ... I could go on. It's really not as bad as people say. Edited February 17, 2012 by Cruxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinLegacy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You should of used and interupts or stun and a root in their somewhere, sorry for your fail but if your not going to use your tools then your a one Far easier said than done. The class spamming the Force Lighting is also the class with the most snares/stuns/escape abilities. Try to explain that one With the adjustments made to Surge in the most recent patch, the survivability of both the Sorcerer & Sage has increased a pretty big deal. As a gunnery commando, I will admit that I heavily relied on Surge & would PvP with an augmented belt & bracers that both had very high surge. Combined with use of trinkets & buffs, My Grav Rounds would crit on Sorcerers for nearly 4K. With the recent adjustment, the highest I've hit for now is 3100+ on a crit. That is a pretty big fall off for my Commando. On the flipside, many, if not all, of the Sage & Sorc abilities still hit just as hard as they always have. It was as pretty nasty nerf to the Surge ability that has players ditching PvP a great deal. On my server anyways on both factions. -LatinLegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruxe Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 On the flipside, many, if not all, of the Sage & Sorc abilities still hit just as hard as they always have. The surge change affected every class, sage/sorc as well. You cannot say that one class is doing less damage and another is not, it's not logically possible. You don't think sorcs were stacking surge like everyone else? It was, and still likely is, the best secondary stat in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinLegacy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The surge change affected every class, sage/sorc as well. You cannot say that one class is doing less damage and another is not, it's not logically possible. You don't think sorcs were stacking surge like everyone else? It was, and still likely is, the best secondary stat in the game. They did not get nearly as affected as every other class since " Force Lighting " on its own hits for more damage per tick than most other abilities in the game. It also does more damage than grav round overtime. I have a Sorc as well so I know this is a fact. It has a higher base damage as well than most other abilities. Not every class is treated to such wonderful skills such as Calcify. Which increases the damage of Force lightning by 12% . That is before the buffs, trinkets & other abilities down the Madness tree stacks on further damage . Force lighting makes grav round look like a tickle. -LatinLegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 They did not get nearly as affected as every other class since " Force Lighting " -LatinLegacy This is true, though the reasons are not quite correct. The specs that got hit the biggest by the surge nerf is all of those with talents that boost either crit rate of abilities, or the crit damage. The reason is simple, all of these feed off each other: the better your surge the better crit rates are the better + crit damage is, the better surge is, you get the idea. In almost all damage talent trees, the talents that increase crit / crit damage are high in the tree, often the second-to-last tier. Because the hybrid spec purposely avoids the higher tier talents that give extra crit damage, the hybrid sorc is much less affected by the surge nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 1.) "Smart" guy noticing I mock you. 2.) That you believe that Sorc/Sage is easier to play than other classes is BS. 3.) Hard to burn down with Force Camo, 99% damage reduction and a 20% damage reduction, AoE Mezz, 50% speed increase and potentially two leaps? You are doing it wrong. 4.) The class especially the Inquisitor is popular because of Darth Sidious. Nothing else. Most player at start of an MMO have no clue how strong the class is in PvP and a majority does not even care about PvP one bit. 5.) Ultimately I do not even care if this class gets nerfed or not because I always mained at least 2 classes in every MMO, if I have the time more mainly so I know the classes inside out and get a feel for them so I can counter them better instead of running into forums crying 24/7 albeit it is highly amusing to see it. Currently getting up my Scoundrel Sawbones, my Immortal Jugger and my Powertech Shieldtech which are around 25 by now. So yeah go ahead, nerf this class if you wish to I do not care ultimately one I am good enough to adjust and I also have a decent pool of characters I enjoy to play I'll just laugh at it because I know for sure if this class is nerfed you will just jump on the next class whining 24/7 about it just the same way people cry about Sorcs/Sages now. Ultimately it will change nothing on the forums. The "comminity" in these forums especially on PvP forums are just a very minor but very vocal group of loudmouthed terribads mostly who would never even consider the fact they fail has anything to do with them being bad. The masses are close to never right because the avarage IQ of a person is divided by the amount of people he joins most of the time. preach on brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Far easier said than done. The class spamming the Force Lighting is also the class with the most snares/stuns/escape abilities. Try to explain that one With the adjustments made to Surge in the most recent patch, the survivability of both the Sorcerer & Sage has increased a pretty big deal. As a gunnery commando, I will admit that I heavily relied on Surge & would PvP with an augmented belt & bracers that both had very high surge. Combined with use of trinkets & buffs, My Grav Rounds would crit on Sorcerers for nearly 4K. With the recent adjustment, the highest I've hit for now is 3100+ on a crit. That is a pretty big fall off for my Commando. On the flipside, many, if not all, of the Sage & Sorc abilities still hit just as hard as they always have. It was as pretty nasty nerf to the Surge ability that has players ditching PvP a great deal. On my server anyways on both factions. -LatinLegacy you were doing nearly 4k damage with adrenals every 1.5s now nerfed to 3.1k which btw i dont really believe because surge was only nerfed by 10% what you claim now is basically a 25% nerf, a more realistic number in your gear would probably be 3.5k. if you think sorcerer's damage wasn't hurt drastically like everyone else's you are dreaming. sorc/sage stacked surge just like everyone else. i went from 1100-1200 force lightning crit ticks (with adrenal) to 1000. so in 3s of time you've already dealt almost twice the amount of damage i would have done prenerf. They did not get nearly as affected as every other class since " Force Lighting " on its own hits for more damage per tick than most other abilities in the game. It also does more damage than grav round overtime. I have a Sorc as well so I know this is a fact. It has a higher base damage as well than most other abilities. Not every class is treated to such wonderful skills such as Calcify. Which increases the damage of Force lightning by 12% . That is before the buffs, trinkets & other abilities down the Madness tree stacks on further damage . Force lighting makes grav round look like a tickle. -LatinLegacy non-crit force lightning hits most targets for around 500-600 damage per tick crits for about 800-900 (without any adrenals/red buff) clearly 1 tick is doing more damage than most abilities in the game force lightning which has 4 ticks over 3s let's just assume 2 of those 4 ticks crit, that's 2600 damage over 3 seconds...yes that kind of damage is obviously ridiculous and need a nerf as well. as always exaggeration is the key to all points in regards to pvp balance. real numbers will be ignored per usual. Edited February 17, 2012 by shaidarlol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMIHere Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This. The bubble is the problem. The amount of tools the class already have means they should not have access to this bubble as a base line ability. My recomendation still stands. Place bubble as a tier 5-6 talent in the healing tree and honestly, a healing sorc would more or less stay the same, while DPS sorcs would need to survive without it but can still recieve the bubble, as all other classes, from a healing specd sorc. Cool, so now we can have two defensive cooldowns like every other class? Increasing the top tier talents in the trees would not mean much. No class have a good top tier talent. Oh that's probably why we see hybrids so much in other specs. Every spec has an ability 11 points in the tree so why do you not see scoundrels sucker punching people with a HoT on themselves? Marauders with two leaps? Tank powertechs tab DoTing? Every sorc would still remain hybrid as that would still be better then any top tier talent regardless of how good they are. Logic is not your strong point I see, so if I have an ability at the top of Lightning that just killed any target instantly I would still spec hybrid. It's called weighing your options, and sorcerers have mostly decided against their top tier dps talents. This is partly due to the fact that Wrath and Chain Lightning work so good together, and partly because the alternative isn't good. If Crushing Darkness had a longer activation time and shorter cooldown I'd have no need for Chain Lightning. The bubble needs to be removed from baseline and thats it. I can agree with this, so where are my two defensive cooldowns? It would keep dps Sorcerers from getting so much healing on the scoreboard. The bubble could even take the place of that horrible Dark Resilience talent, it'd have to be moved higher up the tree of course. Or they need to nerf a whole lot with many other abilities where a slight change would quickly place the class, still ontop but atleast not utterly overpowered. Or an actual balancing idea can be thought of. The bubble is a sorcerers only defense and every melee class has a way to get into melee range. Oh right, I have an ability to CC and run away from battle, why do people see that as a sorcerer winning the fight? Bubble, speed, aoe knockback, cc, stuns dps snare... Its just too much. This class can by themself do what other classes are doing when working 2 together to ensure this is taking place. What? Are you even trying to formulate an argument here? AoE knockback, cc, stuns? Leave the listing of our abilities to the OP, he's better at it. Looking at the other ranged dps/healer class you'll see that they have much similar CC. Baseline is the same minus our 50% uptime snare DoT and our filler snare, while they get a snare on their AoE knockback. Specced for CC while still getting their top tier dps ability they get a second knockback (which also increase the effectiveness of their AoE one), a snare on their Unload, a 16% chance to snare on any blaster attack, and a stacking armor reduction on their filler (amounting to 20%). In the spec the OP provides I get a root on my knockback, a blind on my bubble, and my eight second mez is instant cast all of which break on damage (root after 2 seconds). I've admittedly won the CC battle (lol 16% chance to snare for two seconds in an off stance), but I took a much greater hit to damage (13/28 is the sorc on top of the scoreboard not being harassed). Now I have bubble (which can be on the Bounty Hunter as well) and Force Speed, while the Bounty Hunter has two defensive cooldowns and heavy armor. It removes team effort since you have one class able to do it all, and better then other classes with 1 or 2 of similar abilities. No, just no. That sorcs and sages keep protecting their class just shows disrespect to the game and pvp community as a whole. I'm for balance, I come here trying to clear up any misconceptions. Backlash in it's current state is overpowered, Sorcerers do not need an AoE mez on call and an organized team doesn't need a "pulsating light of you don't get to do anything for 15 seconds" coming from the sorc (could be 12, the resolve bar seems to fill about 25-30%). "Take the bubble away from dps and everything is fine" is a misconception. You want my only option to be running away and healing up? Guess how else you can leave battle and return with full heal/resources? Dieing. For PVE bubbles are good and handy, and with my advice a heal specd sorc would literally remain unchanged to now, in order to not make pve harder for pve sages, where they already are the strongest healers but I have no problem with that. PVP is the problem, not PVE. The bubble will fully ignore 80% of an operative or scoundrels stealth opener, which is their hardest hitting ability in this game. And since release those classes have their crit damage reduced with up to 40% due to surge nerf and the 20% nerf to said ability. So one hit breaks the bubble, and is this their hardest hitting ability or the hardest hitting ability in the game? I don't doubt that Operatives got the shaft with the earlier nerf and I posted against it. How much of that was consumable stacking which got nerfed at the same time? Without a 50 to judge (working on it) I can't really go posting about how they're underpowered now, just that it seemed like a rash decision to nerf them both at once. A Blacklash specced Sorcerer was a really good counter for them to begin with. All dps classes need to rely on healers to stay alive, or slip away and self heal. Why not sorcs? They do have the ability to run away and self heal as every other hybrid class, such as mercs, commandos, scoundrels and operatives. Sorcs "bubble" is their cc disposal. CC disposal? Are you saying that my bubble negates a 4 second stun? This is my only defense and I can cast it on you as well. Even without the bubble sorcs are still extremly powerful, it really fills no role. That or remove the snare from force lightning and the 2 sec stun from lightning cage. Its one or the other. You already have a snare from your aoe knockback. No it's really not one or the other, funny thing about you not being the creator of the game is that you don't make these decisions. Which is a great thing because you don't seem to know the subject matter despite posting in a thread full of it. It's a root on our AoE knockback, snare is the Bounty Hunter. By lightning cage I imagine you mean whirlwind? Yeah, that'd be a buff in it's current state. You can't count on pugs not to break it instantly and breaking it instantly gives you a full resolve bar for two seconds of stun as opposed to 8 seconds of stun for a full resolve bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Take the bubble away from DPS sorcs and they are nothing more than a free kill for my sentinel. Without the bubble I can kill one in 6-8 seconds from full health, and if I reached them without using force leap there is nothing they can do to protect themselves. The bubble at least lets them live long enough for a team mate to come in and peal for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMIHere Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Far easier said than done. The class spamming the Force Lighting is also the class with the most snares/stuns/escape abilities. Try to explain that one With the adjustments made to Surge in the most recent patch, the survivability of both the Sorcerer & Sage has increased a pretty big deal. As a gunnery commando, I will admit that I heavily relied on Surge & would PvP with an augmented belt & bracers that both had very high surge. Combined with use of trinkets & buffs, My Grav Rounds would crit on Sorcerers for nearly 4K. With the recent adjustment, the highest I've hit for now is 3100+ on a crit. That is a pretty big fall off for my Commando. On the flipside, many, if not all, of the Sage & Sorc abilities still hit just as hard as they always have. It was as pretty nasty nerf to the Surge ability that has players ditching PvP a great deal. On my server anyways on both factions. -LatinLegacy You have a good point. Not being a surge stacker I didn't pay attention to the nerf much. Static Barrier isn't affect by crits at all, so the developers may want to look at that an any other abilities like it for an adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphandor Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Something about resolve is broken. It makes the CC seem OP. It isn't thier CC at all. No class should be able to be stun locked by any other period. Now if a person wants to be stupid and pop there get out of jail free card and let me CC them again for full duration while I set a bomb or cap a turret. That is thier problem. Should the CC last long enough for a person to solo cap? Yes only because the person was a idiot when they popped thier CC breaker. So.......... CC isn't OP. Part of it is broken (resolve) the rest is the idiot on the receiving end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirolos Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 . That is before the buffs, trinkets & other abilities down the Madness tree stacks on further damage . Force lighting makes grav round look like a tickle. -LatinLegacy I would love to borrow what ever you put in that vaporizer..It sounds really nice to be 100% delusional all the time. Show me a screen or a vid of force lighting hitting crit and non crit like a grav round/tracer missile in the same scenerio's Dont worry I have about 80yrs left.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I would love to borrow what ever you put in that vaporizer..It sounds really nice to be 100% delusional all the time. Show me a screen or a vid of force lighting hitting crit and non crit like a grav round/tracer missile in the same scenerio's Dont worry I have about 80yrs left.. as i've said countless of times, exaggeration is the key to all things regarding pvp balance. like sorcerers with more cc than any other class, lightning killing me 2 seconds, i got stunned 4x by a sorcerer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandrillagon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 No matter how hard sorc/sage threads or theory crafting tries to divert attention, the fact remainse the community wants them nerfed and they will be. Scoundrels were campaigned by the community and successfully nerfed in not one, but a couple of their top tier spec abilities. This shows Bioware listens to the community and balances the game accordingly. One of the most pathetic defenses of the scoundrel and seeing the same of sorc/sage theorycrafters is saying something along the lines of "if you can't beat me you need to learn to play your class". Scoundrels/Ops said the same thing about their crappy sustained damage and being a one trick pony etc. Guess what, theory crafting did not save the class from a nerf. Sorc/Sage prepare for a hard nerf like operatives have undergone to bring your insanely overpowered class into balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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