Boring Static World of SWTOR

[soapmanman]

i completely agree. i skip most of the cinematic stuff . i would have much rather seen a much more in depth world. but the game is still semi new so maybe it will be added later??

[Hanni]

Good post. And the truth of the matter is that I would give up every megabyte of voice over files in exchange for more immersion and a more solid game experience.

 

Couldn't agree more. 100 Internets.

[dangerousdomino]

I'l repost it then:

 

Dead world

Let’s start with the main problem about the game, the dead world. Best example is Coruscant. Remember the Coruscant scenes in the movies? Huge crowds of people, dense traffic, in short, a living world. Now go to Coruscant in the game, you’ll see a tiny zone linking the spaceport to the senate (nice coincidence by the way!) with barely a couple of NPC standing in place, frozen in time. That plaza is the only “living” area of Coruscant and the only place you’ll go back to (on that planet) after finishing the game, all other zones are full of enemies, completely linear and underground or in buildings and don’t represent at all what we expect of Coruscant. Zones are not connected and there is no feeling of unity. Some zones are obviously made for a video game since they would be impossible in reality by their poor design, it might not be as bad as The Citadel or Illium in Mass Effect but it’s still obvious.

 

You wanted to go to a place like Dex’s dinner? Sorry, there is no such open sky area nor any place like that. You wanted to stand at the 300th floor of a skyscraper and look and the scenery through the window? Not possible. You wanted to visit the planet through the catwalks high in the air? Not possible. The same problems are visible on Nar Shaddaa. One zone is above ground, everything else is away from the landscapes that make the planet notorious and there is little to no NPC life.

 

The main cities like Coruscant, Kaas City, Nar Shaddaa, Corellia, etc. need more life. Hundreds of NPC must be added and they have to walk around, have animations and do things like using a computer, moving to talk to other NPC, going to cantina, etc. Dozens of NPC vehicles must also fly by and fill up the sky. Zones like in the movies must be added, social zones with no enemies, like the bar district or the dinner in ep2, or the building in the books, apartments, shops, attractions, social places, etc. Stop putting everything and every important NPC in the same place, we are not in that much of a hurry. The fleet is currently the only important place to be at level 50, add reasons to go back to the planets.

 

The PvE enemies are almost always in packs and placed in such a way that it doesn’t make sense for a battle and they are frozen for eternity, not moving or doing anything and it just adds to the feeling of dead worlds. They also have to do things and move so it look like a real world.

 

What it is: Coruscant Spaceport | Coruscant Senate | Coruscant Streets

 

What is has to be: Coruscant crowd

 

 

Exploration

Exploration is currently really hard to do. You want to go explore that coast? Chances are good that you are going to enter an exhaustion zone and die, even if you are on land and unaffected by weather. The lands are filled with invisible walls and useless limitations. Most structures are unclimbable or simply inaccessible. As said in previous point, we need more non-fighting zones to go to.

 

 

Day/night cycle

As other caring people on the forum at that time, I was shocked that day a couple of years ago when they announced that every planet would be frozen in time, never to evolve, never to change. It’s mind boggling to see that in a 2012 MMO. A day/night cycle is essential for the mood and immersion of the game. You wanted to organize a RP event during night on a day planet? No chance. You wanted to watch the lights of Coruscant at night? Not possible. You wanted to finally see a day on Nar Shaddaa? Not possible. You wanted to watch the sunset between the hills of Alderaan? No.

 

You'll never see: Coruscant Night | Tatooine sunset | Tatooine at night

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“But the day/night cycle was crap in that other game!”

Just because it was crap, too dark, too light or ugly in another games does not mean that it must be the case for SWTOR too. I’ve seen that argument many times and yet it never made any sense.

 

“Planets don’t all have a 24 hours rotation in the Galaxy Far Far Away!”

So? The rotation just has to be based on the actual data of that planet.

“I don’t want to play during night all the time!”

Many planets are at perpetual night at this moment. Anyway, as said before, the rotation isn’t always 24 hours and it doesn’t have to be on a 1:1 ratio with real life either.

 

 

Dynamic weather

Some planets have special weather but in most case it’s just to limit (limitation being the key word in this game) the zones you can go to like the killer sandstorm on Tatooine if you try to go PvP in the enemy city. Weather needs to be more dynamic, make it rain on Coruscant, spawn a huge blizzard once in a while on Hoth, make the sky change, give life to the world.

 

Tatooine sandstorm

 

 

Environment interaction, social activites & RP

To live in a world, we must interact with the world. Elevator buttons are not enough, there isn’t much liberty in the environment. Cantinas are filled with chairs, why can’t we sit on them? We must be able to gather friends, go to a cantina, sit at a table start playing a game like Pazaak or Sabacc with the possibility to bet credits. I see some kind of Dejarik game in my ship, why can’t I use it?

 

Sabacc

 

Allow us to activate more buttons in our ship, like a viewport toggle, lights, training simulation, etc. Allow us to put waypoint on the map and establish a route for a player created race event. Allow us to climb obstacles like in other games so we could actually go to places that are obviously possible to go to for a trained warrior instead of being blocked like if we were on a wheelchair

 

Allow swimming! Not having that in a modern game is an insult. The reveal of Otoh Gunga in The Phantom Menace was a great moment and we can’t do similar things in the game.

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“I wear heavy armor, I can’t swim!”

It’s the Galaxy Far Far Away with technology thousands of years ahead of us, many solutions exist. Submersible armor, waterproof electronics, scuba gear or simply remove armor when swimming!

 

“Underwated content was crap in that other game!”

See answer for day/night cycle. Because other games failed in doing a good job doesn’t mean that it will fail here too. A lot of potential for underwater content exists.

 

Swimming

 

Enough on the poorly designed impossible static worlds topic for you?

 

Well said. I have been trying to figure out why I just couldn't get into this game and you nailed it for me. I really wanted to get lost in this world and feel like I was a part of it. It never happened because there isn't much of a world to be part of.

[sheisty]

This game feels just as alive as any other mmo I played since 1999. In fact the voiceover quests make it even more alive because finally I care about my character and the stories.

[Amdarius]

Good post. And the truth of the matter is that I would give up every megabyte of voice over files in exchange for more immersion and a more solid game experience.

 

+1 millllion

[Hanni]

This game feels just as alive as any other mmo I played since 1999. In fact the voiceover quests make it even more alive because finally I care about my character and the stories.

 

It feels alive when you go through that tall green wall. Once you go outside, into the actual "open" world, you see how static and empty everything really is.

[Jederix]

LOL. And therein lies the problem. A lot of people never sub after their free month is up. Some do, and then they hit cap. A few stay. A few leave. The game has/had promise.

 

It has NOT delivered on that promise.

 

It has delivered pretty much what I expected. What they have been saying since the start. Because it has not lived up to your over-hyped vision of what you thought the game was going to be is not Bioware's fault.

 

It's yours.

[Jederix]

This is the same reason why FFXIV failed. Fanboys blind rage and insult people, telling them to quit the game and then they are baffled when the game tanks and it goes free-to-play.

 

Not that I'm saying TOR is tanking, but pushing people away will only hurt us. Never, ever think you can support an MMORPG on your own

 

There are dozens of reasons why FFXIV failed. Raging forum posters was not among them.

[Warcranium]

-LESS CAVES

-More use of the third dimension, being able to explore skyscrapers, etc

-More elevators that don't teleport you somewhere or take you into yet another cave

-LESS CAVES

-Moving NPCs in cities, roving enemies, less copy-pasted packs of enemies standing around for no reason

-NPC raids on questing areas (ex. Tuskens attacking Anchorhead)

-Did I mention LESS CAVES?

[photometrik]

I'll admit that I think the game could do for some more open world events and such. Imperial walkers roaming around and fighting Republic ground troops or other walkers would be nice. Or maybe some serious space battles going on in the upper atmosphere and combat ships dog-fighting at low altitude, then crash landing to the planet's surface. Stuff like that would be nice, plus weather effects and day/night cycles.

 

I love the game as it is, but it could definitely use a little more immersion.

Edited February 14, 2012 by photometrik

[Frostvein]

Typical. It's our fault for expecting too much for swtor to provide a better gaming experience then what is already out there.

 

Keep singing that tune while people unsubscribe.

 

this

 

"If you don't like it, leave!"

 

*people leave*

 

"Where is everyone?"

 

and this.

[KaBooM]

300 million dollars.

 

...went down the drain - ehh such a waste

Edited February 14, 2012 by KaBooM

[sheisty]

...went to drain - ehh such a waste

 

Not all things created will please everyone. IMO I think the 150 mil was spent correctly because im having a blast. Notice how I said 150 mil? Yeah.

[gurugeorge]

I love the class stories and general levelling game, but I must admit that worlds are far more static in feel than I thought they would be. Somehow, games like WoW, LOTRO and even FE and CO are able to produce more of a sense of a living world than BW have managed.

 

There's just little sense of "stuff happening" other than the occasional ongoing war (Alderaan, Ord Mantell, Balmorra), but even then, it feels more like a series of skirmishes that you're involved in, rather than war.

 

The only two zones that actually feel a bit alive to me are Tython and Taris. Tython is self-explanatory, in that "temperate forest world" is sort of ingrained as meaning "alive". Alderaan should theoretically have that feel too, but for some reason it doesn't.

 

Oddly though, I never get bored of Taris, maybe because its geometry isn't rectilinear - it's like a cross between chaotic and natural. I think because of its chaotic feel, one always has the sense that there might be something new to be discovered around the next corner (even though rationally one knows there isn't).

Edited February 14, 2012 by gurugeorge

[KaBooM]

Not all things created will please everyone. IMO I think the 150 mil was spent correctly because im having a blast. Notice how I said 150 mil? Yeah.

 

^_~ - 150 mil dear lord think what they could do with 450 mil - plastic figures and cup holders.

[-Fritz-]

Not all things created will please everyone. IMO I think the 150 mil was spent correctly because im having a blast. Notice how I said 150 mil? Yeah.

 

 

honestly they wasted such a massive amount of money on this game...

 

i just went through 2 levels on my character and i have no idea what any of the voice actors said. Im sure BW paid them to do this voice acting, but honestly they jam so much of it into the game one after another and all over the top of themselves in quest hubs the only way i can manage to make any progress whatsoever with my limited playtime is to just mash space like its my job whenever any scene pops up.

 

 

Also the game feels so empty and lifeless that i feel like im forcing myself to push on half the time.... i know this going to end up being wasted money, if im not even to max level and it feels like a job already.... but i might as well play out what ive paid for.

[archifikoss]

Right, just got home and I think I'll make a last post here summing up how I feel about the worlds in the game and how I'd like to see them improved. It is just my opinion so treat it as such - and all my gripes are about things that should not take precedence over bug fixes. And hopefully, this feedback could at least serve as something to have in mind when designing new planets.

 

To start off, I don't consider the worlds to be dead or empty. But I do find them static.

 

What I like:

-The worlds are big and very distinct - each has its own story and flavor

-They look gorgeous and have great color palettes

-They are full of detail, fully handcrafted and have a lot of cool little details (e.g. the "Han Duo" character and the wookiee with the dismantled droid on Hutta)

-I find the quest layout to be very good

-they have distinct areas and landmarks - sure there is recycled content but at least the outdoors feels quite distinct and consistent

 

What could be better:

-They feel more like elaborate movie sets than actual living worlds

-Whilst they have ambiance, they lack dynamic ambiance, i.e. night/day cycles, distinct weather patterns (they exist, but don't feel very "real"), stuff like that

-The interior areas (caves, buildings etc) are pretty similar in most cases (understandable though)

-The NPCs, wildlife etc are a bit too static, one could say they look a bit like mimes doing the same animation over and over again with little variance (e.g. on Alderaan those Tiger beasts could be mobile, and maybe chase nerfs if in close proximity)

-Apart from nodes and quest items there is little interaction with objects in the world - if only for "fluff", it would make the worlds feel more alive. Even pazaak tables and stuff could go a long way in improving the experience

-They do feel a bit constrained and deliberate - and the exhaustion zones smack bang in the middle are annoying

 

I am a fan of the game and am enjoying it for it's merits. But the truth is that Bioware has never been too good at creating truly immersive worlds. The story and voice acting is usually enough to make the game work for me - which is true here as well - but I'm always left with that nagging feeling that the worlds could have been so much more, in all their games.

 

I'm not trying to bash the game. I'm just offering feedback on a point that I think is somewhat weak and could be improved - if not for the already existing planets, for future worlds (Helloween reference here )

Edited February 14, 2012 by archifikoss

[BlackZoback]

If you don't want to be playing in a static world go outside, because unless its 2025 your not going to get what you want in a video game.

[archifikoss]

If you don't want to be playing in a static world go outside, because unless its 2025 your not going to get what you want in a video game.

 

What an silly comment. Firstly, I go outside a lot, whether it's for work, running, hiking, a stroll in old Athens or just meeting my buddies. And second, I have played videogames with dynamic, vibrant worlds, hence my feedback on the static feel of worlds in this game.

 

Please, don't make assumptions like this.

[BLACKKETYL]

It all just feels rushed.....

 

I like this game and all but there's some serious issues that should have been addressed before release. Dreossk's posts on the matter are spot on.

 

I gave it ~60 days plus beta.

 

I'm not resubbing, partially because of those points she/he made and partially because I'm just burned out of the game.

 

I will come back in 12 months or so, hopefully after some major changes.

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[BlackZoback]

What an silly comment. Firstly, I go outside a lot, whether it's for work, running, hiking, a stroll in old Athens or just meeting my buddies. And second, I have played videogames with dynamic, vibrant worlds, hence my feedback on the static feel of worlds in this game.

 

Please, don't make assumptions like this.

 

Did I imply that you don't get out enough? because I didn't the only I said was the only dynamic world your going to experience is the one outside.

 

Unless it is 2025... i could be wrong about that.

Edited February 14, 2012 by BlackZoback

[PeacefulViolence]

The game just has no soul...

 

It's a ginger.

[RycheMykola]

This game feels just as alive as any other mmo I played since 1999. In fact the voiceover quests make it even more alive because finally I care about my character and the stories.

 

This.

 

In WOW, what you do from 1-85 is meaningless, no story, no plot. There isn't even anything with how you go up in the ranks. You're still a peon.

 

Even at 85, the story is barely a blip on the radar.

 

Lets see, killed several Gods, biggest badest bosses in the Universe, accumulated almost a million gold between my toons. Champion in all the cities (exalted rank), yet, not 1 follower or even a lowly grunt to follow me. Even the level 10 guards talk down to you.

 

At least the Alliance finally fixed their bridge in Redridge after 7 years.

[Ansultares]

On those two counts, specifically, I don't feel sorry for the people that are upset. The devs said frozen. The devs said VO. You come here. Worlds are frozen. Focus of the game is the VO. As promised. Zero sympathy there. None.

Fair enough.

 

I'm still going to sit here and call BW crazy for thinking that was a winning approach to the genre.

 

You realize I've now watched EA dump upwards of $500M into MMO development, and all they've gotten in return is a wanna-be KOTOR3? I wish they had the presence to spend their money more wisely, before a major potential investor just leaves the genre for having been burned so badly.

 

In WOW, what you do from 1-85 is meaningless, no story, no plot. There isn't even anything with how you go up in the ranks. You're still a peon.

And it's any different here? I wouldn't know I was Darth whatever unless the loading screen told me every time I first logged into the game.

 

Anyway, much of WoW's story came across in the environment. TOR's mazelike zones and heavy phasing create a massive artificial barrier for BW to overcome in that regard.

 

At least the Alliance finally fixed their bridge in Redridge after 7 years.

Government contracting at it's finest... Edited February 15, 2012 by Ansultares